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[Apath]

All I think needs to be done for Armor Lock is disabling the shield drain and only allowing one use per charge. People recharging their shields during it aren't a problem, IMO.

 

[soldat7]

So, uh, before I didn't think AL didn't need any changing, but now I do.

Two things about AL that I think need to be changed:
1. If a grenade sticks a person, then that person engages AL, the sticky still kills him.
2. No shield recharging during AL.

I agree with #2 but not #1.

 

[Spasm]

My suggested nerfing of AL:

1) Do not strip shields completely when someone hits you. Some damage or push back, sure, but considering how quickly it can be employed, it's leathal in close quarters. (See: Eazy's abuse video.)

2) Regardless of how long it's used, it must recharge after. One use per charge.

3) Shields do not recharge when in AL.

It's the only armor ability that's a touch too multi-purposed.

There's precident. In Halo 1, Cortana enables the Chief's shield to fire off an EMP burst to shut down the three pulse generators in the Two Betrayals mission.

Don't forget instant reorientation. If someone's locked down with their back to me, they shouldn't be able to pop out of it facing me. That shit is whack.

 

[urk]

Armor Lock needs the following buffs:

If fired upon by a player using the Spartan Laser, Armor Lock should refract the blast directly back into the Laserer's stupid face.

Armor Lock should then immediately transport me to the Laserer's charred corpse, where I may proceed to humorously desecrate it by repeatedly raising and lowering my junk onto said Laserer's facial region.

Optional: In the above scenario, Armor Lock could/should append an additional 10 to 15 seconds to the Laserer's subsequent respawn window, whereby they will be forced to endure my protracted celebratory crouching while awash in a burning rage fueled by torment and agony.

 

[MrDaravon]

It's almost as if they need another test build (release candidate) to put out to get final feedback before final release from the greater public audience.

Here's hoping they do - at least beyond internal testing, or small, enclosed testing scenarios.

That's what I've been saying (although there's no way they'll do another one). The problem is that a large portion of what people are bitching about has already been fixed or will be. So besides network stress load testing, I'm not sure how much practical feedback they're getting. A lot of the stuff they don't seem willing to budge on (like DMR being a 5 shot, etc), and all of the other balance issues were discovered and bitched about day 1; I'm not really seeing any feedback I wasn't the first day of the F&F Beta, outside of the Invasion stuff obviously.

I mean, I've already got multiple people on my friends list who aren't playing it anymore because all of these problems are going to be fixed in the final game, so they figure why bother now. And what's going to happen everything they have/will "fix" along with whatever balance changes they make will just be there day 1 now, and there will be another huge round of bitching any way. I'm mainly just really baffled out how this version of the Beta got put out; if it seems like a huge amount of bugs and/or gripes have "already" been fixed, why wasn't this put out until like June? Seems ridiculous to me.

 

[Willeth]

This smacks of people not being able to deal with it properly yet, to me. Maybe it needs better signposting on how much charge he has left in the Lock, but my experience is this:

If a player is being damaged and goes into Armor Lock for a full charge, his shields won't have started to regen until after he comes out of it. You need to not have taken damage for a second or two for it to start charging again when you're invulnerable - and usually, then, you won't have been able to reload and your opponent has.

I agree that people can wreck shit with Armor Lock, but usually it's because they're taking advantage of confusing their opponent, not because the ability is overpowered. I had two killing sprees and a frenzy with it in one game today, but in every single case it was because someone meleed me and stripped their shields or because they were shooting me from afar, I Locked to draw them in and then introduced their face to Mr. Shotgun.

 

[The Librarian]

It's already hard enough to stick people in Reach as it is. I shouldn't have to worry about someone engaging in AL in order to avoid the death. I miss the certainty of knowing that if I stick someone, he's going to die.

 

[feel]

It's already hard enough to stick people in Reach enough as it is. I shouldn't have to worry about someone engaging in AL in order to avoid the death. I miss the certainty knowing that if I stick someone, he's going to die.

This.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Armor Lock needs the following buffs:

If fired upon by a player using the Spartan Laser, Armor Lock should refract the blast directly back into the Laserer's stupid face.

Armor Lock should then immediately transport me to the Laserer's charred corpse, where I may proceed to humorously desecrate it by repeatedly raising and lowering my junk onto said Laserer's facial region.

Optional: In the above scenario, Armor Lock could/should append an additional 10 to 15 seconds to the Laserer's subsequent respawn window, whereby they will be forced to endure my protracted celebratory crouching while awash in a burning rage fueled by torment and agony.

Now you get it, apply that same design philosophy across the board and I garuntee no one will have any complaints about the final game.

Now that I think of it, teleportation would be a cool AA. Image you like press LB and point somewhere, the longer you hold it, the further you teleport in that direction!

Spoiler

Actually im so glad im not making Reach or I would fuck it up so bad. :lol

 

[FunkyMunkey]

It's already hard enough to stick people in Reach enough as it is. I shouldn't have to worry about someone engaging in AL in order to avoid the death. I miss the certainty knowing that if I stick someone, he's going to die.

Lack of certainty, or certainty that doesn't pertain to skill at least, seems to be Reach's objective thus far. Reticule bloom etc. Frustration commences.

 

[Darkflight]

Menus featuring 3D screens now? :lol



Ask him to throw in a BR, Bubble Shield and a pet Grunt whilst you're at it. And Mister Chief armour. Can you also find out where my triple wielding is? I made up my own expectations for it's inclusion in Reach and I'd rather not disappoint myself. Again.

Cel shaded Mister Chief Armour would be the greatest unlock ever

 

[Shake Appeal]

I'm mainly just really baffled out how this version of the Beta got put out; if it seems like a huge amount of bugs and/or gripes have "already" been fixed, why wasn't this put out until like June? Seems ridiculous to me.

Software development is a moving target, and new builds come out every day. Sometimes when you add something or change something in one it breaks something else. They obviously worked on having a stable beta candidate and had that ready for a set deadline for Microsoft testing and assurance blah blah. In the meantime, they didn't stop working down their list of known issues.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

It's already hard enough to stick people in Reach as it is. I shouldn't have to worry about someone engaging in AL in order to avoid the death. I miss the certainty of knowing that if I stick someone, he's going to die.

I like it. It's all about choices and if you choose to go with Armor Lock, then you get the benefits that go with it.

 

[Slightly Live]

Seriously don't the Armour Lock complaints. The few times I've used it I decided it was fun and practical but didn't suit my play style. Never bothers me seeing opponents use it after I get used to the effects and know what to do when I see someone use it against me or my team.

As long as they get rid of the glitch that lets you stand on you team mates and lets them carry you during the Lock, it's cool.

I had anticipated the ability being abused during objective games but it's simply not the case.

 

[The Librarian]

I like it. It's all about choices and if you choose to go with Armor Lock, then you get the benefits that go with it.

It's really just a cheap way to avoid death.

 

[urk]

I'm mainly just really baffled out how this version of the Beta got put out; if it seems like a huge amount of bugs and/or gripes have "already" been fixed, why wasn't this put out until like June? Seems ridiculous to me.

Getting a build ready for prime time is a massive undertaking that requires a monumental investment of time and resources. Not only does it need to measure up internally, but it also gets run through the rigors of Microsoft's own stringent certification process. It's no small feat. It's 150+ guys working insane hours for weeks on end. And yup, even while the build was out for testing, the team kept busy hammering away at the game, working on things that simply couldn't be included in time for Beta. It hurts them way more than it does you to note that something didn't make it in, but is already "fixed for fall."

Had the beta been unleashed in June, we'd have precious little time to react to any of the data we're collecting or implement any tweaks and changes we ultimately deem necessary. Time is always of the essence. As is, we can react and iterate to ensure that the finished product is extra sweet and polished up to a sparkling shine.

To your point about people leaving the Beta to wait for fixes, I'll counter with the only real evidence I have. Drop off was expected and anticipated, but on the whole it's been significantly less than what we experienced with Halo 3's Beta. So suck it, jerk! (Also, tell your lovely wife I said hello.)

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Seriously don't u and the few times I used it I decided it was fun and practical but didn't suit my play style.

As long as they get rid of the glitch that lets you stand on you team mates and lets them carry you during the Lock, it's cool.

I had anticipated the ability being abused during objective games but it's simply not the case.

Woah, what about that game where you went like insanely positive while using it on Powerhouse? There was one point in that game where I went to assassinate you, a teammate went to punch you from the front, you where in the middle - you used Armour lock, and screwed us both over. :lol

 

[Willeth]

It's really just a cheap way to avoid death.

It's a tool to stave off death for a few more seconds. Once you get used to anticipating that it might happen and how to counter it - like with a bubble shield, for example - it'll be fine.

I definitely think that players need something more obvious to signify that they have certain abilities, though - a device on the small of the back doesn't convey that really well enough. I should be able to know if someone has Armor Lock ahead of time if I pay enough attention.

 

[Slightly Live]

Woah, what about that game where you went like insanely positive while using it on Powerhouse? There was one point in that game where I went to assassinate you, a teammate went to punch you from the front, you where in the middle - you used Armour lock, and screwed us both over. :lol

That was mostly luck with a side trimming of attempted "skill". Although I do remember that sandwich moment fondly and the resulting death of everyone around me and me walking away. :lol

Although I've had more incidents of failing horribly with the Ability by tallying up enemy kill counts with my poor judgement calls trying to use it.

 

[The Librarian]

It's a tool to stave off death for a few more seconds. Once you get used to anticipating that it might happen and how to counter it - like with a bubble shield, for example - it'll be fine.

I definitely think that players need something more obvious to signify that they have certain abilities, though - a device on the small of the back doesn't convey that really well enough. I should be able to know if someone has Armor Lock ahead of time if I pay enough attention.

How the frak am I suppose to anticipate it? If I stick someone in Halo 3, even if he deploy a bubble shield, he's still gonna die.

 

[Slightly Live]

How the frak am I suppose to anticipate it? If I stick someone in Halo 3, even if he deploy a bubble shield, he's still gonna die.

What if they throw a bubble shield when the nade is in mid air and it bounces off? That can happen often enough.

Are you seriously complaining about how someone with AL doesn't get blown up when stuck? How many times has that happened to you compared to normal sticky kills? I refuse to believe it's much of an issue to whinge about.

 

[The Librarian]

What if they throw a bubble shield when the nade is in mid air and it bounces off? That can happen often enough.

That only happened so little of the time, it's not even worth mentioning. Besides, not everyone had a choice to spawn with a bubble shields, so it matters even less.

Are you seriously complaining about how someone with AL doesn't get blown up when stuck? How many times has that happened to you compared to normal sticky kills? I refuse to believe it's much of an issue to whinge about.

Yes I am. I've already explained this. It's hard enough to get sticky kills as it is. I don't like how the certainty that a stick means the dude is certain to die, is gone.

 

[MrDaravon]

Getting a build ready for prime time is a massive undertaking that requires a monumental investment of time and resources. Not only does it need to measure up internally, but it also gets run through the rigors of Microsoft's own stringent certification process. It's no small feat. It's 150+ guys working insane hours for weeks on end. And yup, even while the build was out for testing, the team kept busy hammering away at the game, working on things that simply couldn't be included in time for Beta. It hurts them way more than it does you to note that something didn't make it in, but is already "fixed for fall."

Had the beta been unleashed in June, we'd have precious little time to react to any of the data we're collecting or implement any tweaks and changes we ultimately deem necessary. Time is always of the essence. As is, we can react and iterate to ensure that the finished product is extra sweet and polished up to a sparkling shine.

To your point about people leaving the Beta to wait for fixes, I'll counter with the only real evidence I have. Drop off was expected and anticipated, but on the whole it's been significantly less than what we experienced with Halo 3's Beta. So suck it, jerk! (Also, tell your lovely wife I said hello.)

Yeah, I completely understand the reality of it, as well as obviously why there wouldn't be a second Beta (even if it makes sense on paper to the end user). It's just somewhat disconcerting to the beta end user when I go to you with say 10 complaints and I'm told 8 of them have already been fixed.

Honestly I've realized that it's a lose-lose for you guys no matter what; outside of whatever balance issues/fixing you do based on our bitching about things that are apparently already fixed, whatever multiple AA's we haven't seen will probably fuck with the balance again any way. I don't think there's any way anyone's going to be happy on launch day with how the multiplayer's balanced :lol

I'm honestly just still really really bummed at party splitting in Invasion and no 8v8 for the Beta (my wife says howdy).

 

[urk]

Yeah, the SHRINK RAY will be hard to stomach for many players.

 

[Willeth]

How the frak am I suppose to anticipate it? If I stick someone in Halo 3, even if he deploy a bubble shield, he's still gonna die.

I'm not talking about the stickies, just your complaints in general. AL is definitely the most useful ability in a clutch situation, and so it's naturally the most frustrating, but once it becomes part of the flow of the game it will break the flow so much less. I've already got into the habit of thinking it might be an option when attacking an objective, and it's been successful in making sure I don't go for a melee as often as I normally would.

Reach takes out a lot of the certainty in kills, and it's a lot more accessible because of it. Swords can be blocked with melees, fancy assassinations can be halted - the laser is even a little more avoidable. It's not a bad thing, it's just different.

 

[Slightly Live]

I don't think there's any way anyone's going to be happy on launch day with how the multiplayer's balanced :lol

I'll bet you my Noble statue that you're wrong. =P

 

[The Librarian]

I'm not talking about the stickies, just your complaints in general. AL is definitely the most useful ability in a clutch situation, and so it's naturally the most frustrating, but once it becomes part of the flow of the game it will break the flow so much less. I've already got into the habit of thinking it might be an option when attacking an objective, and it's been successful in making sure I don't go for a melee as often as I normally would.

Reach takes out a lot of the certainty in kills, and it's a lot more accessible because of it. Swords can be blocked with melees, fancy assassinations can be halted - the laser is even a little more avoidable. It's not a bad thing, it's just different.

Something I also dislike. That makes me not want to pick up the sword.

I used to not have a problem with AL, but after playing Invasion enough times, I'm starting to see why people have complained about it.

 

[Slightly Live]

Something I also dislike. That makes me not want to pick up the sword.

:lol

You seriously wouldn't touch the sword because occasionally you might not get an instant kill with the first strike?

Hey Urk, got a fantastic suggestion for "balancing" the grenade launcher...

 

[Willeth]

Something I also dislike. That makes me not want to pick up the sword.

I used to not have a problem with AL, but after playing Invasion enough times, I'm starting to see why people have complained about it.

It looks like part of the same philosophy that brought in the DMR and expanding reticule. There's a lot less emphasis on power weapons and "certain" kills, making you rely a lot more on tactical play to get the job done. That's always been my favourite part about Halo, and I think why I really like Reach - and probably why the people who placed more emphasis on aim in 3 are less comfortable with it.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I'll bet you my Noble statue that you're wrong. =P

As much as im sure I will enjoy the game, being 100% certain that theres not a aspect of it you wont like is going too far. By the way im much more interested in the flaming helmet.

Put me on the list of people who thinks the sword block is a good thing though, now if only there was a way of nerfing that shotgun... (no sarcasm, I actually hate that gun)

 

[The Librarian]

You seriously wouldn't touch the sword because occasionally you might not get an instant kill with the first strike?
Hey Urk, got a fantastic suggestion for "balancing" the grenade launcher...

That's a pretty lame analogy. For one, the new grenade launcher doesn't have a precedent in previous Halo games - it's a new weapon whose expectations have not been set. The sword doesn't have any uses beyond really close-range combat. The grenade launcher does.

Hey, while we're at it, let's balance the shotgun as well! Now, how to deflect those shotgun shells at close range...

Uh. The shotgun has been balanced. It has a much narrower cone of fire than Halo 3's and doesn't kill as often in close range.

Well, since we can stop the sword at close range, why not the shotgun? I mean, it's like the sword in that it has no uses beyond really close-range combat.

 

[Willeth]

That's a pretty lame analogy. For one, the new grenade launcher doesn't have a precedent in previous Halo games - it's a new weapon whose expectations have not been set. The sword is the exact opposite, and doesn't have any uses beyond close range. The grenade launcher does.

Hey, while we're at it, let's balance the shotgun as well! Now, how to deflect those shotgun shells at close range...

Uh. The shotgun has been balanced. It has a much narrower cone of fire than Halo 3's and doesn't kill as often in close range.

 

[Toddler]

So, has anyone organized a list of known accommodations yet? Here's mine: http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/commendations.aspx?player=xTODDLERx

...I'd like to know which one(s) I'm lacking.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Uh. The shotgun has been balanced. It has a much narrower cone of fire than Halo 3's and doesn't kill as often in close range.

Actually narrowing the cone would make it better as the shells would all hit. The range has also been increased a little apparently.


Toddler, I think you have all the beta commendations, although there seems like theres space for an 8th on the player page, I wanna know if were all missing one or if there are only 7.

 

[Slightly Live]

As much as im sure I will enjoy the game, being 100% certain that theres not a aspect of it you wont like is going too far. By the way im much more interested in the flaming helmet.

Put me on the list of people who thinks the sword block is a good thing though, now if only there was a way of nerfing that shotgun...

Who said I have to like everything? I'm sure I can find someone impressionable enough to make themselves believe Reach is 100% perfect. :lol

Bungie could try to "balance" the shotgun, as has been previously suggested,

Well, then there should be a way to take out someone long-range w/ a shotgun in a way that takes a lot of skill.

 

[The Librarian]

Bungie could try to "balance" the shotgun, as has been previously suggested,

That's so cool of you. Bringing up a subject I admitted I was wrong about.

 

[MrDaravon]

Yeah, the SHRINK RAY will be hard to find for many players.

fixed

I'll bet you my Noble statue that you're wrong. =P

I've already got a Noble statue, there's no gain for me here!

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Who said I have to like everything? I'm sure I can find someone impressionable enough to make themselves believe Reach is 100% perfect. :lol

Bungie could try to "balance" the shotgun, as has been previously suggested,

:lol :lol :lol

P.s. Shrink Ray sounds awesome, add in a Time reverse gun and were all set for the bestest sci fi game eva!!!1!


Dax, dont listen to these jurks, I understand where your coming from. Players with Armour Lock should at the very least be more visible, I remember Bungie saying that they didnt like how transparent Equipment was, "it just popped out of players". Armour Lock at the moment is just as suprising, make it clear my enemy could activate armour lock at any time and I think ill find it a lot less annoying.

 

[Willeth]

Actually narrowing the cone would make it better as the shells would all hit.

Yeah. If you actually get the reticule on the guy. :lol The problem with 3's shotgun was that if someone was anywhere on your screen, but close, you could kill them. With the Reach one you have to aim at them better. It does give you more damage at range, but the damage drop off is pretty severe - at the far extent of what I would consider close range it takes three blasts to kill someone.

 

[Schmitty]

Uh. The shotgun has been balanced. It has a much narrower cone of fire than Halo 3's and doesn't kill as often in close range.

Actually the shotgun feels a lot more powerful in this game, and rightfully so. It actually is useful outside of point blank range.

 

[Slightly Live]

That's so cool of you. Bringing up a subject I admitted I was wrong about.

Not aiming it at you kid. Chill. It's just a relevant silly quote.

Arguing about "balance" usually degrades into the sort of discussion that spawned that quote and it's hard to see some of the discussions not going the same way.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yeah, the SHRINK RAY will be hard to stomach for many players.

How will this affect my jump height?!

 

[The Librarian]

Not aiming it at you kid. Chill. It's just a relevant silly quote.

Arguing about "balance" usually degrades into the sort of discussion that spawned that quote and it's hard to see some of the discussions not going the same way.

How was I suppose to take it any other way?

Edit - Speaking of weapons, I'm really starting to dislike the Focus Rifle. I think the reticule needs to be a bit smaller seeing as how it's really easy to aim in close range.

 

[EazyB]

Getting a build ready for prime time is a massive undertaking that requires a monumental investment of time and resources. Not only does it need to measure up internally, but it also gets run through the rigors of Microsoft's own stringent certification process. It's no small feat. It's 150+ guys working insane hours for weeks on end. And yup, even while the build was out for testing, the team kept busy hammering away at the game, working on things that simply couldn't be included in time for Beta. It hurts them way more than it does you to note that something didn't make it in, but is already "fixed for fall."

Had the beta been unleashed in June, we'd have precious little time to react to any of the data we're collecting or implement any tweaks and changes we ultimately deem necessary. Time is always of the essence. As is, we can react and iterate to ensure that the finished product is extra sweet and polished up to a sparkling shine.

To your point about people leaving the Beta to wait for fixes, I'll counter with the only real evidence I have. Drop off was expected and anticipated, but on the whole it's been significantly less than what we experienced with Halo 3's Beta. So suck it, jerk! (Also, tell your lovely wife I said hello.)

As I understand it the alpha was updated very frequently as it went on. Does the MS's certification not allow updates like this to go out for games in a public (or SC2's limited public) beta? Seems like the only real valuable info you guys will be able to gather will be on the networking side which requires hundreds of thousands of players from around the world. But I don't see how you can get very valuable balance impressions from users when the game in its current form is so much different? Seems like something on the size and form of SC2's beta would be the most valuable for future projects given it's possible under Microsoft certification or Sony's system.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Yeah. If you actually get the reticule on the guy. :lol The problem with 3's shotgun was that if someone was anywhere on your screen, but close, you could kill them. With the Reach one you have to aim at them better. It does give you more damage at range, but the damage drop off is pretty severe - at the far extent of what I would consider close range it takes three blasts to kill someone.

You really mean to tell me that aiming the shotgun is a problem? :lol I hate to take the piss but how the hell are you going to use the shrink ray!??

I get what you mean though, but as someone with a shitty connection the shotgun always seems to take me 3 shots to kill someone. =(

 

[Willeth]

You really mean to tell me that aiming the shotgun is a problem? :lol I hate to take the piss but how the hell are you going to use the shrink ray!??

I don't think it's a problem; it's been rebalanced. It's still a great CQ weapon, it just plays slightly differently (I think for the better).

 

[Toddler]

So, has anyone organized a list of known accommodations yet? Here's mine: http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/commendations.aspx?player=xTODDLERx

...I'd like to know which one(s) I'm lacking.

Quoted for next page.

 

[zumphry]

Yes, be funny now, but you will regret all of this when a month after release all these new casual fans you're pleasing (instead of the old faithful) leave for a newer game, and there is noone left to read your updates or buy the DLC!!! OOOOH HOW WILL YOU REGRET IT ALL!! muhahahahahaHAHAA*cough*cough*HAHAhaaaa..

Eh, they'll still have new people to laugh at when they voice their concerns.

It's already hard enough to stick people in Reach as it is. I shouldn't have to worry about someone engaging in AL in order to avoid the death. I miss the certainty of knowing that if I stick someone, he's going to die.

I know you're talking about Armor Lock, but I absolutely hate it when Plasma Grenades just seem to pass through a Spartan or an Elite's torso. Seems like most of the time, I stick people on their legs.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I don't think it's a problem; it's been rebalanced. It's still a great CQ weapon, it just plays slightly differently (I think for the better).

I edited my original post to add how I understand where your coming from, I just dont have a great connection and so weapons like the shotgun always suck for me (or maybe I just suck with them?). Just having a laugh with you. :lol

 

[Willeth]

Quoted for next page.

They're all on that page no matter whether you've earned them or not. If you look, you've not progressed enough to get the first tier of Mobile Asset but it's still there.

There's seven in total: Assistant, Technician, Headshot, Multikill, Killing Spree, Sticky Grenadier, and Mobile Asset.

I edited my original post to add how I understand where your coming from, I just dont have a great connection and so weapons like the shotgun always suck for me (or maybe I just suck with them?). Just having a laugh with you. :lol

I also have a shitty connection. For me the shotty is very much a CQ weapon as it used to be, but at least now I have a chance of coming out on top if someone engages me more than four feet away. :lol