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[Spasm]

Man.. NT1 is just as unplayable as Campaign and Firefight from previous Halos. Seriously, I don't understand why Campaign and Multiplayer don't use the same netcode.. I'd be very happy if someone explained it to me.

Something like...

In Matchmaking, there's only one server, everyone else is a client.
In Co-op/Firefight, every player is its own server, and every server need to be 100% completely synchronized with the others (lockstep). It's a lot more network overhead.

Why they do it this way, I'm not sure. But I've heard mention it's how the only way to keep the AI all organized.

 

[Drakken]

Anyone figure out how the generator locking works yet?

 

[Photolysis]

Man.. NT1 is just as unplayable as Campaign and Firefight from previous Halos. Seriously, I don't understand why Campaign and Multiplayer don't use the same netcode.. I'd be very happy if someone explained it to me.

Campaign and multiplayer use different network models (synchronous lockstep vs asynchronous) I presume because of the AI. For them to change it to run off the multiplayer engine would mean changing the way AI is handled.

They'd have to tell the client console not to run AI and instead run AI shells which would have to be treated like multiplayer characters and constantly updated. That's a hell of a lot more data to send, when using sync lockstep they can simply send a bunch of AI states. And the main problem in getting online co-op ready for H3 was making the AI deterministic.

The only other alternative to switching or keeping things the same would be to use a hybrid model between the two, but that was never going to happen either because it creates too many problems.

 

[metareferential]

Man.. NT1 is just as unplayable as Campaign and Firefight from previous Halos. Seriously, I don't understand why Campaign and Multiplayer don't use the same netcode.. I'd be very happy if someone explained it to me.

Because there are too many things that need to happen at the exact same time for everybody.

So if one member is lagging, everything lags for everyone.

Put it quite simply, that is.

There a very good explanation at halo.bungie.org

 

[Spasm]

Anyone figure out how the generator locking works yet?

Run up to it, hold B (Bumper Jumper). Only works if you're a Spartan, duh, and only if it hasn't been locked down recently.

 

[feel]

The cool down only lasts 2-3 seconds. Which is stupid. So is the decision to give the Spartans a load out with shotguns. Generator B becomes impossible to destroy at the end with all the Spartans camping with shotguns.

P.S. What's Playlist Awards? I don't remember seeing that pop up before.

I think it's sort of the new Double EXP. Awarding you extra cR for playing on special playlists.

 

[Raide]

Anyone figure out how the generator locking works yet?

Yeah, when it gets hit press R-Bumper (recon setting). It locks it down to damage for a short time. Usually handy when you need to get the team together to protect a weakened Generator.

 

[Slightly Live]

What are Playlist Awards?

I remember "Invasion Bonus" pop up in a screen before Beta came out... related?

 

[Kapura]

urk, today is friday and it would be really, really awesome if you could jot a paragraph (or even better, get an adult to write it) about what specifically is being tested through networks in NT1. Is it the different netcode sync? Are you running spiffy subroutines to increase network load? Are you giving the trees AI to test its behaviour? We deserve an answer!

Spoiler

Kinda deserve. Want, more like

 

[GhaleonEB]

urk, today is friday and it would be really, really awesome if you could jot a paragraph (or even better, get an adult to write it) about what specifically is being tested through networks in NT1. Is it the different netcode sync? Are you running spiffy subroutines to increase network load? Are you giving the trees AI to test its behaviour? We deserve an answer!

Spoiler

Kinda deserve. Want, more like

ManCannon already said they would talk about what they're testing closer to ship.

But seriously....you can't tell? It's Firefight!

 

[Slightly Live]

We deserve nothing but want everything.

 

[Devin Olsen]

Man.. NT1 is just as unplayable as Campaign and Firefight from previous Halos. Seriously, I don't understand why Campaign and Multiplayer don't use the same netcode.. I'd be very happy if someone explained it to me.

Co-op & Firefight = synchronous
MP = asynchronous
See wiki comparison

In MP there is one host, what he says goes. Packets of data are sent to the host and before you receive them back your box is assuming what it sent is correct. The problem with this is when there is a really high ping game you will see warping. On your screen the rocket hits your warthog, so you go flying! The host thinks otherwise, or thinks you were hit in a slightly different spot. So you will receive the 'correct' information from the host after the rocket has hit you, causing your box to kind of go "oh shit!" and warp you to what is the 'correct' location.

Halo PC is the best example of this. The netcode is quite terrible so there is a lot of warping apparent in the game.

In Co op (synchronous) there is still a host, and what he says still goes. However you do not go until he tells you what do to.

You send in your packet of data which in it says "hey I just jumped!" so that gets sent to the host, the host takes your data and all of the others data puts it together and then sends you back a verification to go ahead. That is where the input lag comes from.

The pro's to this style of networking is 100% synchronization at all times. Though it may lag, all player see the exact same thing at all times. With AI this is especially important, and is why it is a required network model for anything involving AI.

I wish I could explain it better, and I apologize if I did a bad job... But it should help you out!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

During one of my matches, the game pauses, there's a countdown timer that is waiting on a specific person. When that countdown timer ends, one of the other players on the other team leaves the game.

Same thing happened to me in my last game. Unfortunately, the guy was on my team.

Luckily we managed to force a tie game while being down a man.

Also, I know graphics aren't everything, but goddamn, Overlook takes a sizable dump on the visuals of the other Beta maps, (although I think Powerhouse looks fantastic as well). I'm watching some games in the theater, and it's really a sight to behold with the density of vegetation, the flowing streams and waterfalls, and the expansive mountain vistas.

Shooting purple space aliens with ray guns in the face over rolling green hills on a faraway planet-- that's the Halo I so love.

 

[dslgunstar]

Generator defense is fucking awesome. Bungie, this NEEDS to be made in a 6v6 territories variant.

So glad to have my hands on the Laser again. Still the best looking weapon Bungie has ever designed.

 

[Kapura]

ManCannon already said they would talk about what they're testing closer to ship.

But seriously....you can't tell? It's Firefight!

Specifically was the key word. I want to know exactly why it has different performance. Firefight isn't enough for my nerd appetite.

 

[Spasm]

Generator defense is fucking awesome. Bungie, this NEEDS to be made in a 6v6 territories variant.

I'm thinking there's more... Much more to Gen Defense... Like, holding the generators is only the first phase. Maybe knocking out the generators unleashes a horde of formerly imprisoned AI dudes on your enemies. :lol

 

[The Librarian]

About to play my first game now.

Faked edit: PRO PIPE STARTS?

*dies*

 

[Merguson]

Because there are too many things that need to happen at the exact same time for everybody.

So if one member is lagging, everything lags for everyone.

Put it quite simply, that is.

There a very good explanation at halo.bungie.org

Can I get a link to that explanation?

 

[Spasm]

About to play my first game now.

Faked edit: PRO PIPE STARTS?

*dies*

Just uh... Careful where you point that thing. Don't be helping the Elites out like I did.

 

[Slightly Live]

Stuff it, I'm heading back on. I'm a sucker for rolling green vistas.

 

[Photolysis]

Can I get a link to that explanation?

I assume he's referring to my article.

http://halo.bungie.org/misc/networkguide.html#04

 

[Rowsdower]

So what are the chances of Firefight matchmaking this fall?

 

[Willeth]

You might have seen that Evade can damage enemies pretty effectively. Well, playing Generator Defense just now we found out that Elites and Spartans can damage each other by just running head-on into each other. It's also fucking hilarious.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1206994 (If someone could render that it would be appreciated. It's about six minutes, though.)

We did it until the game ended and I noticed that you can have literally no health - http://imgur.com/qbQjV.jpg

We tried but we couldn't actually kill me with head-on collisions, though. I'm going to try and get a game together with the sole purpose of doing this just for laughs.

There should be a giant crash helmet armor permutation :lol

 

[electricpirate]

So what are the chances of Firefight matchmaking this fall?

Very high, as NT1 is probably testing exactly that.

 

[purnoman3000]

Now I know why it's called network test.... laggggggggggy. Oh well, it's fun when it works. Also, protip, don't leave B for last. sneak by and destroy it while the spartans are outside the base.

 

[Spasm]

Decided to buy a block of minutes... So Ghal and Devin, I owe you one.

Here's a much better showing on my part, though it ended a tie.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1206762
Fastest 3 gen kill yet?

Turret is BACK, baby!

 

[kaskade]

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1207029

This game is so amazing. No doubt about it day one.

 

[The Librarian]

I've lagged out of my first two NT1 gametypes. One when the teams were beings switched, and the other a couple of seconds after the game starts.

Dunno what's up with my connection and the beta.

 

[JaggedSac]

Adding objectives to Firefight games would be pretty awesome as well. Defending generators from hordes of enemies would be pretty awesome.

 

[Kibbles]

The framerate is absolutely terrible on Generator Defense. I'm playing 1440x900 if it matters. (eh, it did for Banjo)

 

[Miggytronz]

Decided to buy a block of minutes... So Ghal and Devin, I owe you one.

Here's a much better showing on my part, though it ended a tie.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1206762
Fastest 3 gen kill yet?

Turret is BACK, baby!

goddamn that was a great vid!

 

[dslgunstar]

Hey Bungie, just a suggestion for an addition to Bungie.net.

I'd love to be able to see a chart, or even a line graph illustrating the points I earned in each game of Arena. Only the top three go towards your daily rating, but every game goes toward your rating, so being able to visualize any trends or even just see the information without clicking on each individual game would be great.

 

[Raide]

About to play my first game now.

Faked edit: PRO PIPE STARTS?

*dies*

I knew you would love that. :lol

At least I can get some more practice in!

 

[AwesomeSyrup]

Generator Defense is super laggy. It's hard to do anything, although I think if they made it a 6v6 game vs mode in the full game it would be really fun.

 

[Photolysis]

The framerate is absolutely terrible on Generator Defense. I'm playing 1440x900 if it matters. (eh, it did for Banjo)

Are you sure you're not getting confused between a framerate problem, and the game pausing because it's having problems connecting to players (which can make it look like a low framerate)?



By the way, everyone does realise that this is effectively testing matchmaking for Firefight and Co-op right?

 

[Raide]

Generator Defense is super laggy. It's hard to do anything, although I think if they made it a 6v6 game vs mode in the full game it would be really fun.

I am thinking that Squad Spawn might also be a good addition to this. 6 v 6 would be pretty cool.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Decided to buy a block of minutes... So Ghal and Devin, I owe you one.

Here's a much better showing on my part, though it ended a tie.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1206762
Fastest 3 gen kill yet?

Turret is BACK, baby!

Two thoughts.

Thought one: the generator explosions are insane. That's the kind of stuff I'd expect from Crackdown, not Halo. That's a compliment, BTW.

Thought two: when you are on offense, there's dialog for the attackers, similar to Invasion, telling them to go destroy the generators, in Elite-speak. In the two videos I've watched so for, each had a different variation. I really doubt Bungie would put that in just for a placeholder gametype. So there is either a different gametype in which Elites attack human objectives to destroy, or there's an option to have some players on the Covenant side of the battle in Firefight, as I fantasized about earlier. Faptacular either way.

 

[The Librarian]

I can only think of one thing that would complete the amazing look of Overlook: Forerunner structures.

Damn.

 

[RdN]

Why there's no Carnage Report on NT1?

 

[metareferential]

By the way, everyone does realise that this is effectively testing matchmaking for Firefight and Co-op right?

Yep, that's way I'm all wet. xD

And yes, I was referring to your article earlier, I recommend it to everyone who complains about matchmaking from time to time. Great read.

 

[Photolysis]

So let's see the list of improvements for campaign networking so far:

Works with matchmaking
Doesn't end when players get dropped
Host migration
Tells you when the game is paused and how long for


Yum

 

[Kibbles]

Are you sure you're not getting confused between a framerate problem, and the game pausing because it's having problems connecting to players (which can make it look like a low framerate)?



By the way, everyone does realise that this is effectively testing matchmaking for Firefight and Co-op right?

I don't know but it's almost unplayable. If this is how it's going to be for Firefight/Co-op Matchmaking or other MP modes, they have a lot of work to do.

 

[Raide]

Two thoughts.

Thought one: the generator explosions are insane. That's the kind of stuff I'd expect from Crackdown, not Halo. That's a compliment, BTW.

Thought two: when you are on offense, there's dialog for the attackers, similar to Invasion, telling them to go destroy the generators, in Elite-speak. In the two videos I've watched so for, each had a different variation. I really doubt Bungie would put that in just for a placeholder gametype. So there is either a different gametype in which Elites attack human objectives to destroy, or there's an option to have some players on the Covenant side of the battle in Firefight, as I fantasized about earlier. Faptacular either way.

The explosions are awesome. I love the noise they make when they are about to nuke. :lol

Having real players on the Covie side for Firefight would be awesome.

 

[Pennybags]

I just got banned for a dropped connection during Generator Defense.

 

[The Lamonster]

I just got banned for a dropped connection during Generator Defense.

wow, the update said not to worry if your connection shits out occasionally

 

[RdN]

Quitters totally ruin the NT1 experience.. Is the new Banhammer already in effect? 'Cause this people MUST be punished..

 

[Spasm]

Thought one: the generator explosions are insane. That's the kind of stuff I'd expect from Crackdown, not Halo. That's a compliment, BTW.

In that vid I posted, the two kills I got when asploding the generator where splatters :lol

That's a helluva 'splosion.

 

[Ramirez]

NT1 is unplayable for me, the lag makes the precision weapons worthless, so you get a bunch of tards running around with noobtubes and shotguns all game, not to mention the cooldown on the lockdown is absurd.

 

[Prophet Steve]

Quitters totally ruin the NT1 experience.. Is the new Banhammer already in effect? 'Cause this people MUST be punished..

Yes

 

[GhaleonEB]

Why there's no Carnage Report on NT1?

Because it's not multiplayer, and they're not showing you the Firefight Carnage Report yet.