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Halo: Reach |OT3| This Thread is Not a Natural Formation

U

User 73706

Banned
This probably isn't the case, but how do we know the grounded Spartan isn't a hologram? Someone could have tried using the loadout in that group of infantry, died, and respawned (far left one, maybe?) before his hologram disappeared. Probably unlikely, though, considering the grounded one appears to be sidestepping.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
I want a rainbow Spartan. Or even better, an Armor Ability that makes it so that anyone using Active Camo glows with rainbows and hearts and bubbles.

EDIT: Scratch that. Make it so that Armor Lock doesn't actually give you any increased shields or anything--when you lock, you get stuck, you keep normal shields, but a goddamn maelstrom of rainbows, bubbles, hearts, and etc shoot out, blinding anyone nearby like a Flare.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
OuterWorldVoice said:
Dax, you can have a Rainbow Party.
Click to expand...

There's no party like a Rainbow party!

PP623.jpg
 
K

KevinRo

Member
ughh, 40 dollars for the Halo Encyclopedia? I also read Frankie's intro. Noice, I still dont know what his role is at 343i.

Also, to fill out my Waypoint achievement I saw that Halo Wars is still 30 dollars USED and gamestop freaking buys it back at 3 dollars. I'm starting to side with developers and publishers on the side of used games. gamestop bought out all the competition and there is no one to drive the prices down.
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
Why do people have a problem with bloom? Bloom has been in other halo games, it just got visualized with the reticule, and sure the DMR is a precision and those did not have bloom before, but the CE pistol did, the AR in Halo CE did as well.

Or is it only DMR bloom people care about?
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
A27_StarWolf said:
Why do people have a problem with bloom? Bloom has been in other halo games, it just got visualized with the reticule, and sure the DMR is a precision and those did not have bloom before, but the CE pistol did, the AR in Halo CE did as well.

Or is it only DMR bloom people care about?
Click to expand...
Pistol 'bloom' was only if you kept the trigger down in Halo 1. Also it allows for the occasional random kill with precision weapons like the DMR and it sucks when there is lag. Just like the shittiness of Armor Lock -> Unlock -> Beatdown -> Armor Lock and you can't even kill them when they unlocked and locked back even if they were one shot at unlock during certain times.
 
B

Barrow Roll

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
Why do people have a problem with bloom? Bloom has been in other halo games, it just got visualized with the reticule, and sure the DMR is a precision and those did not have bloom before, but the CE pistol did, the AR in Halo CE did as well.

Or is it only DMR bloom people care about?
Click to expand...
jokerherewego.gif

This is a common argument that gets brought up when the subject of bloom is brought up and you can't honestly tell me that "bloom" in older Halo games has anywhere near as much impact on combat as it does in Reach. Bloom didn't exist on precision weapons such as the BR as you've pointed out so that leaves it affecting 3 main weapons; the AR, DMR and Magnum. I don't think anyone will dispute AR bloom since it's a full auto weapon and since it was beefed up in Reach, bloom somewhat keeps it in check. The Magnum in CE only really "bloomed" if you held down the trigger, which I'm sure nobody did. And even so, the rate of expansion and how wide the reticle got would be no where near what the Reach Magnum has.

The reason people have a problem with bloom on the DMR and Magnum is because of the seemingly random element it introduces to combat and the fact that it slows down gameplay. We already move slower, jump lower, now we have to shoot slower? It's just not fun for a lot of us.
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
Plywood said:
Pistol 'bloom' was only if you kept the trigger down in Halo 1. Also it allows for the occasional random kill with precision weapons like the DMR and it sucks when there is lag. Just like the shittiness of Armor Lock -> Unlock -> Beatdown -> Armor Lock and you can't even kill them when they unlocked and locked back even if they were one shot at unlock during certain times.
Click to expand...

AL works fine in big team games and firefight honestly, its the team slayer games it does not fit well.


I've never had a problem killing someone with armor lock unless I was close range.

Shame on me for getting that close.
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
Barrow Roll said:
jokerherewego.gif

This is a common argument that gets brought up when the subject of bloom is brought up and you can't honestly tell me that "bloom" in older Halo games has anywhere near as much impact on combat as it does in Reach. Bloom didn't exist on precision weapons such as the BR as you've pointed out so that leaves it affecting 3 main weapons; the AR, DMR and Magnum. I don't think anyone will dispute AR bloom since it's a full auto weapon and since it was beefed up in Reach, bloom somewhat keeps it in check. The Magnum in CE only really "bloomed" if you held down the trigger, which I'm sure nobody did. And even so, the rate and "expanded reticle" of the bloom on the CE Magnum was no where near what the Reach Magnum is.

The reason people have a problem with bloom on the DMR and Magnum is because of the seemingly random element it introduces to combat and the fact that it slows down gameplay. We already move slower, jump lower, now we have to shoot slower? It's just not fun for a lot of us.
Click to expand...


So what then? No bloom and then we get a gun with a set maximum fire rate, and the gameplay is equally as slow.

So actually, with bloom you can fire faster, it just also has an increased chance of missing the opponent.

So even if it is more random, you can't say it slows down gameplay.
 
D

Devin Olsen

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
Why do people have a problem with bloom? Bloom has been in other halo games, it just got visualized with the reticule, and sure the DMR is a precision and those did not have bloom before, but the CE pistol did, the AR in Halo CE did as well.

Or is it only DMR bloom people care about?
Click to expand...
Oh please no.

Can we just settle by saying you are absolutely wrong. I wish you played at least a little bit of CE competitively, before making posts like this.
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
Devin Olsen said:
Oh please no.

Can we just settle by saying you are absolutely wrong. I wish you played at least a little bit of CE competitively, before making posts like this.
Click to expand...



I played a lot of CE, so please don't jump to conclusions.

I understand that weapons like the sniper and BR did not have bloom.

For real, most were automatic weapons in CE and had bloom. Or lets call it increased accuracy as time goes on.

You can't just tell someone they are wrong, how can you argue like that.
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
A27_StarWolf said:
So what then? No bloom and then we get a gun with a set maximum fire rate, and the gameplay is equally as slow.

So actually, with bloom you can fire faster, it just also has an increased chance of missing the opponent.

So even if it is more random, you can't say it slows down gameplay.
Click to expand...
Firing faster does not equal faster gameplay because as bloom increases inaccuracy increases which ensures you're less likely to kill the opponent with each shot as time passes by, so you're forced to shoot at a steady boring pace. Also the game plays slower in comparison to other Halo games. From firing rate of precision weapons to movement speed to jump height, everything is brought down a notch.
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
Plywood said:
Firing faster does not equal faster gameplay because as bloom increases inaccuracy increases which ensures you're less likely to kill the opponent with each shot as time passes by, so you're forced to shoot at a steady boring pace. Also the game plays slower in comparison to other Halo games.
Click to expand...

I get that, however the option to fire faster is still there, correct?

a gun with a set fire rate can't fire any faster, so the gameplay with that gun can go no faster. Correct?

so even with bloom on if you are firing at the slower rate to have your accuracy, your not letting your gun fire any faster, so the gameplay can't go any faster. Correct?
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
Barrow Roll said:
jokerherewego.gif

This is a common argument that gets brought up when the subject of bloom is brought up and you can't honestly tell me that "bloom" in older Halo games has anywhere near as much impact on combat as it does in Reach. Bloom didn't exist on precision weapons such as the BR as you've pointed out so that leaves it affecting 3 main weapons; the AR, DMR and Magnum. I don't think anyone will dispute AR bloom since it's a full auto weapon and since it was beefed up in Reach, bloom somewhat keeps it in check. The Magnum in CE only really "bloomed" if you held down the trigger, which I'm sure nobody did. And even so, the rate of expansion and how wide the reticle got would be no where near what the Reach Magnum has.

The reason people have a problem with bloom on the DMR and Magnum is because of the seemingly random element it introduces to combat and the fact that it slows down gameplay. We already move slower, jump lower, now we have to shoot slower? It's just not fun for a lot of us.
Click to expand...
An excellent summary of why Reach just isn't as fun (for some of us) as the previous games were.

Edit: Dear 343, please bring back my classic Halo for Halo 4. :)
 
K

Karl2177

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
I played a lot of CE, so please don't jump to conclusions.

I understand that weapons like the sniper and BR did not have bloom.

For real, most were automatic weapons in CE and had bloom. Or lets call it increased accuracy as time goes on.

You can't just tell someone they are wrong, how can you argue like that.
Click to expand...
Subtle irony.

The whole idea of bloom was to give an accurate representation of where the bullet could go. The randomness is the complete opposite of skill representation, so myself having average skill could out-DMR Tashi simply because my bullets were "luckier". In my perspective, that isn't right or fair to let a random element decide who wins the battle.
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
Karl2177 said:
Subtle irony.

The whole idea of bloom was to give an accurate representation of where the bullet could go. The randomness is the complete opposite of skill representation, so myself having average skill could out-DMR Tashi simply because my bullets were "luckier". In my perspective, that isn't right or fair to let a random element decide who wins the battle.
Click to expand...

I understand what you mean, but chances are if you time your shots you are still going to win no?


I suppose to me the bloom is so subtle that I have not really found myself blaming it for the lack of a kill.

I can't say you are wrong, however I bet statistics say a spammer won't be as good as Tashi.

I don't have any problem with people wanting bloom gone by the way, I'm more curious as to peoples reasoning, and defending my own.
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
A27_StarWolf said:
I get that, however the option to fire faster is still there, correct?

a gun with a set fire rate can't fire any faster, so the gameplay with that gun can go no faster. Correct?

so even with bloom on if you are firing at the slower rate to have your accuracy, your not letting your gun fire any faster, so the gameplay can't go any faster. Correct?
Click to expand...
But the pace of the game varies depending on a number of factors bloom and latency included, blooms random element is what ruins the pace of the game. Which is what this whole talk is about. Why people dislike bloom. How it's random, how it tries to force a certain gameplay pace, yet fails in doing so because of it's random element that is not an accurate representation of skill and does not set a proper pace to the game because it only affects precision weapons, thus turning something skillbased into just like any other weapon on the map, when Bungie was talking about setting weapons into their proper roles all they really did was gimp precision weapons. Yet you can just as easily fire a rocket in Reach as you could in Halo 1, there is nothing hold any other weapon back.
A27_StarWolf said:
I understand what you mean, but chances are if you time your shots you are still going to win no?


I suppose to me the bloom is so subtle that I have not really found myself blaming it for the lack of a kill.

I can't say you are wrong, however I bet statistics say a spammer won't be as good as Tashi.

I don't have any problem with people wanting bloom gone by the way, I'm more curious as to peoples reasoning, and defending my own.
Click to expand...
You talk about chances when there should be no chances with precision weapons, skill based only. What this creates is a 1/10 chance that someone gets lucky and kills someone who shouldn't have been killed but because of this random element they were rewarded for something they haven't really earned.

As someone who's played a lot of Halo: Reach the bloom is not subtle and I can tell when bloom has screwed me out of a kill, just like I can tell when I've won a DMR battle because the random element actually helped me.

And if we're going by statistics, Tashi or any good player still has the chance to be killed by a spammer of a precision weapon. Which is why I can't wrap my head around this, a random element for precision weapons. Every other gun does not have a random element, it's just point and shoot for Rockets, Conk Rifle, Shotgun, Sniper Rifle, Sword(technically point and slash), etc, so why gimp precision weapons?
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Personally, I would have liked faster combat. The optimal ROF of the DMR IS a bit slow. But right now its all by design and if it was changed it would break the game. The only way to make the game faster is to up weapon damage and speed. Problem is, this makes grenades and such HELLA powerful.

I've pretty much adapted to bloom by now, and I can wreck with the DMR consistently. And I will say this....

DMR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halo 3 BR.

I went back to play Halo 3 and the spread of the DMR disgusted me. And I never even complained about it before.

The DMR may have bloom but when you handle it the weapon is deadly accurate.

Not gonna lie, its been growing on me since the Beta and I've been getting better at it.
 
B

Barrow Roll

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
So what then? No bloom and then we get a gun with a set maximum fire rate, and the gameplay is equally as slow.

So actually, with bloom you can fire faster, it just also has an increased chance of missing the opponent.

So even if it is more random, you can't say it slows down gameplay.
Click to expand...
The DMR already fires slower than the Magnum but you make it sound like there are only 2 options:

1. Current bloom system.
2. No bloom but sloooow ass DMR/Magnum fire rate.

What we want is a third option.

3. No bloom, quick fire rate like the BR.

I'm not crying because they took away my BR or anything like that, but it wasn't broken (I'm talking Halo 2 BR here). They developed a system that worked perfectly and it wouldn't have been hard to design the DMR around similar parameters.

Your increased chance of missing should be from having shitty aim, not because you fired your gun too fast.

And as Plywood pointed out, fast fire rate does not equal fast paced gameplay. Each match is like a battle but the pace of the game, at least in my point of view, is dictated by each individual skirmish. Because you have to shoot slower, your enemy dies slower. Because you run slower the time between you and your next encounter is slower. This is alleviated with sprint a bit, which personally I'm okay with but I wouldn't complain if player movement speed was increased and sprint was kept.

I didn't even bring up that the DMR is 5 shot with bloom. Having it be 5 shots wouldn't be a problem to me at all if we could always fire at the max fire rate. But now it takes more shots and I have to shoot slower to kill? :I

A27_StarWolf said:
I understand what you mean, but chances are if you time your shots you are still going to win no?


I suppose to me the bloom is so subtle that I have not really found myself blaming it for the lack of a kill.

I can't say you are wrong, however I bet statistics say a spammer won't be as good as Tashi.

I don't have any problem with people wanting bloom gone by the way, I'm more curious as to peoples reasoning, and defending my own.
Click to expand...
If 2 players are properly timing their shots then the better player will win because bloom wouldn't have been a factor since they adhered to it's mechanics.

A spammer will probably 9/10 (pulling made-up statistics out of my ass lol) lose to the better player as well because he probably has worse aim and is spamming his shots. However, 1/10 he'll beat the pro through no fault of the pro, but because the spammer got lucky. If he is the worse player then it should be 0/10. Random elements simply have no place in competitive games.

The entire bloom argument is subjective, so, yeah. Personally I still have fun with Reach and bloom doesn't ruin my experience though it could be so much better if they changed/removed it. I've adapted to bloom so that's not really the issue, it just simply isn't as fun as the BR was or bloomless DMR/Magnum could be. Right now Reach is like an 8/10, if they just tweaked a few simple things it would be like 11/10. I'm talkin gameplay there, Reach's feature suite still shits on most console shooters and for that it gets major props.

:lol I just remembered how ridiculous the bloom is on the Plasma Repeater. Oooooh what a piece of shit weapon.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Barrow Roll said:
:lol I just remembered how ridiculous the bloom is on the Plasma Repeater. Oooooh what a piece of shit weapon.
Click to expand...

God yes. They nerfed the hell out of it from the beta.

The focus rifle needs a buff too. Not in terms of damage, but they need to extend extend the range of its aim magnetism, because at far range the weapon is only used to slightly annoy people.
 
S

Striker

Member
A27 Tawpgun said:
DMR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halo 3 BR.
Click to expand...
Indeed.

BTW, some guy on ForgeHub said this concerning the Classic Playlist:

Originally Posted by The Trivial Prodigy
Woot one of my maps made it! Can't wait for the playlist.

For anyone that cares, there's a nice remake of District (H2:V) in there, as well as a good Sandtrap (it's called Greytrap, I think?) They do have a Timberland remake, but it's not very good...at all.
Click to expand...
 
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