Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Hopefully we get the 'Making of making the Reach trailer' before Bungie goes on their holiday break.
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Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
no u
xxjuicesxx
Member
Trasher said:
Yea those are issues I hope are addressed but its tough to create a system that stupid ass kids wont take advantage of. Halo kids are really concerned about their rank. Whereas yea any other MP game you could just quit the game if your team is screwed, in Halo your rank is riding on each game.
Which is why I didn't get into my ideas of betrayel booting (Make it based on damage total instead of actual killing), because all smart team killers and derankers wont actually kill you just shoot your shields down making winning impossible. Also Team Forfeiting. Where if your down a player a normally greyed out option in the start menu lets you choose forfeit a notice goes to all players and if the rest of your teams players choose it (sans one, in case the said teamkiller is a douche) then it would forfeit the game, but also the other team can choose to not count the game if they so choose. If they aren't douches (hell add an incentive for them doing this to make it worth their while too).
xxjuicesxx said:
What if it's on their host?
Also, it's not as though every game played is just a complete lag fest and is unplayable to a point where you can't tell a team's skill. While I agree that the way to test how good a team really is is to throw them on LAN, I don't agree with the thought that LIVE provides absolutely no indication at all.
Yeah it definitely would be tricky to implement this sort of option so as to not have players abuse it in some sort of boosting way, but I know it can be done. Would end the misery of those matches where someone leaves right at the beginning, or when you have that douchebag on your team that betrays everyone. =/xxjuicesxx said:
This also brings up another point: What do you guys think of ranking systems? Good for multiplayer, or does it ruin the multiplayer experience by encouraging boosters? Maybe the best answer is to get rid of ranks altogether and just have stats.
lol Kibbles, you must be really bored waiting for tomorrow.
Yeah, but what do you know. Try playing competitively on XBL and then come back and try to say something.Tashi0106 said:What if it's on their host?
Also, it's not as though every game played is just a complete lag fest and is unplayable to a point where you can't tell a team's skill. While I agree that the way to test how good a team really is is to throw them on LAN, I don't agree with the thought that LIVE provides absolutely no indication at all.
Trasher said:
If you got rid of ranks how would matchmaking work? Match K/D ratio? Fuck that, the game has enough stat whores. Ideally though, you would play with your friends in a perfect group of 4 or however many on a team, all the time. But that doesn't happen. I personally really love Halo 3's Ranking system. The highest level is not so unachievable that cheating is necessary (I'm looking at you Halo 2). However I think a problem with Halo 3's ranking system is that it's too easy to get a 50. You would be surprised to find a pretty large gap in skill between MLG 50's. I don't think that it should go up to 100 or anything like that but maybe it should be more difficult.
But maybe it isn't too easy in Halo 3. I think a major problem is just how vague the system is. There's no definite way of knowing when you'll level down or when you'll level up. Halo 2 has the progress bars on Bnet but even that is too vague. What if it had an exp meter just like CoD? With the exception of course being that you don't earn exp based on what you do in the game but is based on if you win and the difference in levels of the teams as well.
For example, if your team's average levels are 45/50 and the opponents team average levels are 48/50. If your team wins, you should get a certain amount of exp that is made visible to all players and the other team should lose the same amount of exp.
I wish I knew exactly how the Halo 3 system works because it involves True Skill as well right? I run into 49's in MLG all the time and they say, "I've won 8 games in a row on my 49, when am I going to get my 50 back?" That's ridiculous!
There's got to be some sort of graphic representation with a system that is consistent and makes sense.
NullPointer
Member
I'd get rid of ranking altogether, and have all the matchmaking variables hidden under the hood. Then I'd make some modifications to truskill so that it included whatever measures of skill it now has, with an experience system as well, and tie even custom games into the equation.Trasher said:
For purposes of progression, I'd use a pure time-played experience model, or better yet, multiplayer challenges that unlock rewards, but these multiplayer challenges would all be teamwork based, rather than "x kills with this weapon". Focus on capping the flag, assists, defending the objective, etc. Too much of modern stats and scoring incentivizes individuals doing strange or useless shit to boost their score at the expense of the team. I'd like to see this trend reversed.
Tashi0106 said:
I don't have a link but I'm pretty sure there's a paper on the microsoft research website or something with more details behind the method of the trueskill system.
I think that in Reach the skill levels of players should be hidden. Showing the skill numbers just makes people wonder why they haven't gone up in skill yet or why they went down faster than they think they should, etc etc, which isn't the point of the system at all.
CrazedArabMan
Member
Dani said:
Find a stream maybe?
That would be a terrible thing to do in my opinion.NullPointer said:
I think there should definitely be a ranking system, but I also do not like the ranking system in Halo 3 at all. I'm hoping, in Reach, that we get something that works much better and isn't so mysterious. Also, please no multiplayer achievements...
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
CrazedArabMan said:
Easier said than done. I can imagine only a few low res off screen Tom Morello-eque streams being available or something. =(
Trasher said:
Yeah these can die in fire. Horrible things they are.
NullPointer
Member
I agree with this. If you show the numbers it turns into something to be "won" by achieving the maximum rank, rather than being used as a tool to match people of similar skill. That balancing is supposed to make sure that new players aren't matched with xxxDunkMyBallzInItxxx with the 10 to 1 kill ratio, AND to make sure the ultra competitive get in the games they want.DarkJC said:
That's why I dig the Halo 3 experience system as what should be the visible marker, as long as its purely based upon time played.
Hell, take it to the next step and make more use out of the zones on XBL. Pro gets more visible stats than say, Recreation. Making the zones meaningful at all would be nice.
The VGA website has a watch live button, you can watch it there:Dani said:
http://www.spike.com/event/vga2009
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
OMG Aero said:
And hasn't that Knighly guy said it wasn't going to stream? Conflicting information I see. That's not a great guarantee. =(
CrazedArabMan
Member
Dani said:
Poor Dani.
Self Induced
Member
Wait, what? There's a Reach reveal sometime soon?
Cool beans.
Cool beans.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
EazyB said:
http://www.spike.com/blog/watch-video-game/90340OMG Aero said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
Where did he say this?Dani said:
The site strongly indicates that it's streaming (whether it'll be region locked is another thing).
Kibbles
Member
www.twitter.com/geoffkeighleyZeouterlimits said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
Huh...Kibbles said:
That is a weird contradiction. Bawls.
Maybe some kind soul will be streaming it through one of the streaming sites?
Time played progression would be alright but I don't think it could or should be used as a means of determining opponents for matchmaking. The more time you play the game doesn't necessarily mean the better you are at the game.
As far as determining which players match against each other, I think Halo 3 does a pretty good job. The ranks have to be based on performance against other players and that's it. This is where CoD fails. There's no rank in CoD that can't be achieved by just playing the game with a lower to moderate level of skill for a long period of time. It also doesn't help that matchmaking like it should exist, doesn't. If matchmaking based on levels did exist similar to the way it does in Halo, there would be a nice progression and a good way to tell players skill would be by looking at their rank.
I love that Halo 2/3's ranking system in team matches has always been determined by the team's performance. If your team loses, everyone on your team loses exp toward their rank. It has its good and bad though. If you carry your team and lose, you lose exp towards your rank when your performance in the match says otherwise. It goes the other way too though. If your team carries you to a win, you'll get a exp when you maybe didn't deserve it. Not only are the ranks team oriented though (besides Lone Wolves) but the game itself is very team oriented.
Halo 3 is a pretty hardcore online game if you look at it. I think that's why a lot of Halo players adore play CoD online. You have 1 global rank which means you can play any playlist you like exclusively and still get exp and perks and other unlocks. Also, your rank depends on how you perform individually and because of the way the game is, the players are inherently less dependent on their teammates. At least in Deathmatch gametypes. Halo rewards players with ranks for team wins while Cod rewards players with ranks as well as unlocks for individual stats and performance.
Personally I would like to see Reach's matchmaking system and ranking system an evolution of what it currently is in Halo 3 and not anything like it is in CoD.
edit: Oh and Dani, Justin.tv is your friend. I'm sure that someone will be streaming it there. Let's just hope they don't shut it down though. Check the gaming side of justin.tv when the show airs here in the states and see if you find someone streaming the event.
As far as determining which players match against each other, I think Halo 3 does a pretty good job. The ranks have to be based on performance against other players and that's it. This is where CoD fails. There's no rank in CoD that can't be achieved by just playing the game with a lower to moderate level of skill for a long period of time. It also doesn't help that matchmaking like it should exist, doesn't. If matchmaking based on levels did exist similar to the way it does in Halo, there would be a nice progression and a good way to tell players skill would be by looking at their rank.
I love that Halo 2/3's ranking system in team matches has always been determined by the team's performance. If your team loses, everyone on your team loses exp toward their rank. It has its good and bad though. If you carry your team and lose, you lose exp towards your rank when your performance in the match says otherwise. It goes the other way too though. If your team carries you to a win, you'll get a exp when you maybe didn't deserve it. Not only are the ranks team oriented though (besides Lone Wolves) but the game itself is very team oriented.
Halo 3 is a pretty hardcore online game if you look at it. I think that's why a lot of Halo players adore play CoD online. You have 1 global rank which means you can play any playlist you like exclusively and still get exp and perks and other unlocks. Also, your rank depends on how you perform individually and because of the way the game is, the players are inherently less dependent on their teammates. At least in Deathmatch gametypes. Halo rewards players with ranks for team wins while Cod rewards players with ranks as well as unlocks for individual stats and performance.
Personally I would like to see Reach's matchmaking system and ranking system an evolution of what it currently is in Halo 3 and not anything like it is in CoD.
edit: Oh and Dani, Justin.tv is your friend. I'm sure that someone will be streaming it there. Let's just hope they don't shut it down though. Check the gaming side of justin.tv when the show airs here in the states and see if you find someone streaming the event.
RebornYeti
Member
I have like 5 different things to help remind me that the VGAs are starting:
1. Mom
2. Cell Phone
3. Reminder Timer on Dish
4. Brother's Phone
5. Alarm Clock
I am a sad man.
1. Mom
2. Cell Phone
3. Reminder Timer on Dish
4. Brother's Phone
5. Alarm Clock
I am a sad man.
ToyMachine228
Member
Trasher said:
We may see some of the cast of ODST in Reach, but definitely not as Spartans. They could however support you in battles as Marines, ODSTs, whatever.
abacab driver
Banned
clashfan said:
I do admit, it is pretty gangster of him to stick to his 'biggest game of 2010' statement.
Lostconfused
Member
Lets be honest, its a pretty safe statement to make.abacab driver said:
Lostconfused
Member
Either be ready to get your bandwidth rocked or just pm people the URLOozer3993 said: