Hatred - Reveal & Gameplay Trailer

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swazzyswess said:
I don't think it's a "hilariously flimsy veneer." The same thing applies to literature, film, etc.

Example: William Faulkner's Sanctuary involves a rape with a corncob. It's obviously meant to be despicable because of the context. You're essentially arguing the context is a veneer because Faulker conceived of the idea, came up with the proper words to describe the rape, and then constructed a scene around it.
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The difference there is that the reader is not meant to take enjoyment from reading about a person getting raped with a corncob. In most video games, the player is meant to take enjoyment from killing others. It just so happens that in those games, those other people are (for the most part) bad.
 
I just noticed that the main dude's voice sounds like the voice actor for Xavier: Renegade Angel, that bizarre show that used to be on late night cartoon network. Made me laugh.
 
swazzyswess said:
I don't think it's a "hilariously flimsy veneer." The same thing applies to literature, film, etc.

Example: William Faulkner's Sanctuary involves a rape with a corncob. It's obviously meant to be despicable because of the context. You're essentially arguing the context is a veneer because Faulker conceived of the idea, came up with the proper words to describe the rape, and then constructed a scene around it.

EDIT: Gamers being complicit in the actions that occur is a complicating factor, but you're still assuming that we as gamers enjoy violent games because of the violence itself, not everything surrounding it. That's a large leap to make.
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videogames have far more in common with ayn rand's love of writing rape scenes than anything faulkner has done
 
Wow, I thought people would be exaggerating, but that trailer is pretty damn brutal to watch. Definitely is giving Manhunt 2 a run for it's money when it comes to kill-animations.

10% of me is hoping that this trailer is a Trojan horse for a gameplay experience that kind of explores the more meta-question regarding violence in video games and if the context of the violence matters. With a developer name like "Destructive Creations", it almost seems too tongue-and-cheek to be exactly what it appears to be right now.

90% of me knows that this is not going to be the case whatsoever and this is going to be just as awful as it appears to be.

It will definitely be interesting to track this games development and the associated ramifications though. Wow.
 
It takes real COURAGE to push the boundaries like that. So amazing. Please, please, please include realistic rape of children! I mean FUCK society's boundaries!
 
:no fun allowed:

Too bad about the developper themself, still want to play game like that without it needing to justify itself with a scenaristic twist or whatever.
 
Right wing reactionary devs, eh. It's like they put out in the open all of the things regular devs try to keep out of sight. Hint: it's not coincidence that so many games have an underlying philosophy of "hard men making hard choices".
 
So - does anyone actually FIGHT BACK against you in this game?

Or do you just run around mindlessly murdering everyone?

It reminds me of RYSE, only your enemies are just unarmed civilians who are running AWAY from you, rather than TOWARD you.

The violence doesn't bother me as much as the lack of any purpose.
 
DrLazy said:
Too late now. Blah, sick people will make sick art. Can't be helped I guess. Not for me obviously.
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Who's to define what art is sick (or unacceptable) and what is not? Were controversial artists, like Joel-Peter Witkin and the Vienna Actionists (Günter Brus, Otto Mühl, Hermann Nitsch, and Rudolf Schwarzkogler) sick as well for going beyond the boundaries? Their works are not for everyone obviously, just like this game, but it's absurd to try to put something you find repulsive on the same level as pedophilia.
 
nrvalleytime said:
http://fucknovideogames.tumblr.com/...s-a-genocide-simulator-developed-by-neo-nazis

Should have been clearer - a good part of the group has links to those groups. Should have been clearer. I am a person who tries to avoid any type of blanket statement, so apologies for not saying that initially. Seems guilty by association was on my mind.

But what makes it hard to avoid is exactly what the post says:
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Ah, I see.

Welp, that about seals the lid on this game's future.
 
Netherscourge said:
So - does anyone actually FIGHT BACK against you in this game?

Or do you just run around mindlessly murdering everyone?

It reminds me of RYSE, only your enemies are just unarmed civilians who are running AWAY from you, rather than TOWARD you.

The violence doesn't bother me as much as the lack of any purpose.
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I think that's what they're forgetting. Sure, make your game about murdering innocents, letting off some steam, but how is that going to be any fun if there's no challenge? It's not like some narrative exploration game where the fun is in experiencing the world or something.
 
Netherscourge said:
So - does anyone actually FIGHT BACK against you in this game?

Or do you just run around mindlessly murdering everyone?

It reminds me of RYSE, only your enemies are just unarmed civilians who are running AWAY from you, rather than TOWARD you.

The violence doesn't bother me as much as the lack of any purpose.
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The cops have guns in the trailer.
 
This is pretty gross. I mean I enjoyed Manhunt but in that game you were killing bad dudes yourself. Also the main character is SO LAME.

That whole neo-nazi thing is pretty bad too.
 
Melchiah said:
Who's to define what art is sick (or unacceptable) and what is not? Were controversial artists, like Joel-Peter Witkin and the Vienna Actionists (Günter Brus, Otto Mühl, Hermann Nitsch, and Rudolf Schwarzkogler) sick as well for going beyond the boundaries? Their works are not for everyone obviously, just like this game, but it's absurd to try to put something you find repulsive on the same level as pedophilia.
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It's a psychopathic killing simulation dude, you're really stretching here. If that isn't as close to objectively repulsive as it gets then you've probably gone too deep in philosophy class for your own good.
 
Melchiah said:
Who's to define what art is sick (or unacceptable) and what is not? Were controversial artists, like Joel-Peter Witkin and the Vienna Actionists (Günter Brus, Otto Mühl, Hermann Nitsch, and Rudolf Schwarzkogler) sick as well for going beyond the boundaries? Their works are not for everyone obviously, just like this game, but it's absurd to try to put something you find repulsive on the same level as pedophilia.
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Photographs of physical oddities (in the case of Witkin) intended to illuminate often hidden parts of society and human life in general is not in the same as a person who makes games that people play for fun saying things like "Lol our violence is tasty :)"

Additionally, none of those artists would say what they were doing is purely for entertainment purposes. The Hatred developers explicitly state that on their site. It's for fun, entertainment, a 'pure gaming' experience. It's explicitly NOT designed to be challenging intellectually or artistically.
 
Melchiah said:
Who's to define what art is sick (or unacceptable) and what is not? Were controversial artists, like Joel-Peter Witkin and the Vienna Actionists (Günter Brus, Otto Mühl, Hermann Nitsch, and Rudolf Schwarzkogler) sick as well for going beyond the boundaries? Their works are not for everyone obviously, just like this game, but it's absurd to try to put something you find repulsive on the same level as pedophilia.
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Reading what the developers have said about the game, you're over thinking it slightly.
 
AllIsOneIsNone said:
It's a psychopathic killing simulation dude, you're really stretching here. If that isn't as close to objectively repulsive as it gets then you've probably gone too deep in philosophy class for your own good.
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By the same logic, you could call the viewers of Man Bites Dog & Philosophy of a Knife, and readers of American Psycho the same. The fact that the player is more active participant doesn't change anything.

Everyone doesn't have the same treshold for what's repulsive, and that doesn't make them any less sane than those who are easily disgusted.


swazzyswess said:
Photographs of physical oddities (in the case of Witkin) intended to illuminate often hidden parts of society and human life in general is not in the same as a person who makes games that people play for fun saying things like "Lol our violence is tasty :)"

Additionally, none of those artists would say what they were doing is purely for entertainment purposes. The Hatred developers explicitly state that on their site. It's for fun, entertainment, a 'pure gaming' experience. It's explicitly NOT designed to be challenging intellectually or artistically.
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Not the same of course, but in the context of games Hatred is going beyond the boundaries just like Vienna Actionists did break the taboos of art back in the day. Although, Destructive Creations isn't doing it quite as elegantly, as they did.

As for what the Vienna Actionists said about their art...

"The profession to practise art is the priesthood for a new view of existence. The means for a profounder, intenser rapture within life and must be intensified to the point of a shameless, analytical exhibitionism, that demands the sacrifice of total self-abandonment."
- Hermann Nitsch

"Art is flesh and blood."
- Rudolf Schwarzkogler

It can have deeper philosophical meaning to the artist, or be an entirely cathartic exercise, or just a means to piss on the cultural icons and norms
 
Melchiah said:
By the same logic, you could call the viewers of Man Bites Dog & Philosophy of a Knife, and readers of American Psycho the same. The fact that the player is more active participant doesn't change anything.

Everyone doesn't have the same treshold for what's repulsive, and that doesn't make them any less sane than those who are easily disgusted.
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It doesn't? So where do you draw the line then? Say holodecks exist in 50 years and there's a simulation where you run around in an ultra-realistic virtual world where the objective is to rip apart people's bodies in the most disgusting ways possible. You're saying that wouldn't be any more ethically problematic than reading a book about a guy who killed people for fun?
 
AllIsOneIsNone said:
It doesn't? So where do you draw the line then? Say holodecks exist in 50 years and there's a simulation where you run around in an ultra-realistic virtual world where the objective is to rip apart people's bodies in the most disgusting ways possible. You're saying that wouldn't be any more ethically problematic than reading a book about a guy who killed people for fun?
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I don't know, I think drawing the line at 'if it's fiction and doesn't actually hurt other people' is fair.
 
AllIsOneIsNone said:
It doesn't? So where do you draw the line then? Say holodecks exist in 50 years and there's a simulation where you run around in an ultra-realistic virtual world where the objective is to rip apart people's bodies in the most disgusting ways possible. You're saying that wouldn't be any more ethically problematic than reading a book about a guy who killed people for fun?
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There are non-disgusting ways to rip bodies apart in the first place?
And no, unless stimuli from VR somehow starts brainwashing people essentially
 
Melchiah said:
It can have deeper philosophical meaning to the artist, or be an entirely cathartic exercise, or just a means to piss on the cultural icons and norms
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Fair enough, but killing a bunch of innocent people for 'pure entertainment' is probably the laziest and most vacuous artistic expression a person could come up with.

The developers would deny the game is intended to be artistic in any way though, so this all seems moot. I mean, a person could twist their intellect all day and try to explain why the Vomit Gore films are just as artistic as Ingmar Bergman, but what's the point?
 
LordJim said:
There are non-disgusting ways to rip bodies apart in the first place?
And no, unless stimuli from VR somehow starts brainwashing people essentially
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Define brainwashing. Perception and memory are linked to changes in psychology and behavior, therefore putting yourself into the perspective of a psycho could in fact lead to psychotic tendencies if convincing enough.
 
AllIsOneIsNone said:
It doesn't? So where do you draw the line then? Say holodecks exist in 50 years and there's a simulation where you run around in an ultra-realistic virtual world where the objective is to rip apart people's bodies in the most disgusting ways possible. You're saying that wouldn't be any more ethically problematic than reading a book about a guy who killed people for fun?
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Would you consider it ethically problematic for someone to write and create such a holodeck scenario? If you do, what's the difference with the writers and directors, who actualized their equally questionable visions in books and films?
 
Small, relatively unknown dev makes super violent game,
gets media attention due to the type of violence.

Marketing at its finest.
Just smart.
 
The big question on my mind is how they plan on distributing this "game". Do they think Steam is going to carry it? Are they going to sell it on their own? How do they plan on making money from this?
 
Melchiah said:
Would you consider it ethically problematic for someone to write and create such a holodeck scenario? If you do, what's the difference with the writers and directors, who actualized their equally questionable visions in books and films?
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Its the difference between watching and doing. Its a different medium, gaming being more involved with choice.
 
swazzyswess said:
Fair enough, but killing a bunch of innocent people for 'pure entertainment' is probably the laziest and most vacuous artistic expression a person could come up with.

The developers would deny the game is intended to be artistic in any way though, so this all seems moot. I mean, a person could twist their intellect all day and try to explain why the Vomit Gore films are just as artistic as Ingmar Bergman, but what's the point?
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Perhaps. That's what Hollywood has been doing for years for easy profits. Violence sells better than the more cerebral entertainment, so it's no wonder some of the indies are trying to cash on it as well. It creates easy headlines, and the media controversy raises awareness of the product. Even if it's shit, it'll probably sell more than it would have done otherwise.

The point wasn't to claim the game is art, after all I wasn't the one who brought up the term "art" into the conversation, but to disclaim the notion that its makers would have to be sick in the head.
 
I said this in another thread, but this concept has been done before, and done more intellectually, in other games.

This isn't the next hotline miami or spec ops. It's the new Postal. And that's not a good thing,
 
One of the things that bugs me about this is that it will be more fuel for the people who want videogames censored and may actually cause people who are on the fence about the whole situation to be all for it. I can see it causing a shit storm and a new found passion for the media to demonize videogames. And to top it all off it will prolly suck.
 
Tired of you PC people trying to criticize and mock those poor inspired indie artists trying to bring their vision to life, now lets start discussing more important matters like the number of pixels on the protagonist's asshole on AC: Unity.
 
Hows this game any different than PayDay 2 or GTA? People are being really weird with their subjectivity or level of sensitivity. Game looked pretty dope to me. Rack up points until the cops stop you. It's nothing new and not the least bit shocking.
 
AllIsOneIsNone said:
Its the difference between watching and doing. Its a different medium, gaming being more involved with choice.
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What I was saying, was that the creation process for all the entertainment mediums is the same. Someone has to come up with the scenarios that occur in the product. Is it any less morbid to write, direct, shoot and act a stabbing scene for a film, than it is to create such a scene for a game?

I don't personally make such a distinction between the different mediums just because in one of them the participant is more active. It's still just an entertainment in an imaginary world.
 
MutFox said:
Small, relatively unknown dev makes super violent game,
gets media attention due to the type of violence.

Marketing at its finest.
Just smart.
Click to expand...

I get that feeling as well. They knew it would cause controversy and get people talking and therefore more people would end up buying it.
 
Coolade said:
Hows this game any different than PayDay 2 or GTA? People are being really weird with their subjectivity or level of sensitivity. Game looked pretty dope to me. Rack up points until the cops stop you. It's nothing new and not the least bit shocking.
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It's just something to be angry about for awhile.
 
Melchiah said:
What I was saying, was that the creation process for all the entertainment mediums is the same. Someone has to come up with the scenarios that occur in the product. Is it any less morbid to write, direct, shoot and act a stabbing scene for a film, than it is to create such a scene for a game?

I don't personally make such a distinction between the different mediums just because in one of them the participant is more active. It's still just an entertainment in an imaginary world.
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Oh, I was not speaking of the creative process itself, more the output of the product. But the effect that a product has on the consumer should still be taken into account, and I believe that does separate the two.
 
All the screams for censorship and banning of this game will only lead to increased audience for it and better sales. You are basicially doing the advertisment for them and creates the exact hype the people interested in these kinds of games, movies, books look for.

Also censorship is bad regardless.
 
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