Have I been missing out on CRPGs this whole time?

BossLackey

BossLackey

Gold Member
Played KOTOR back when it released. Instantly one of the best games I had ever played. Jade Empire after that, which I also really liked. But despite being a PC/Console gamer and having played Diablo II a ton, I never actually got into 'proper CRPGs innit' outside of those until Baldur's Gate 3, which is obviously fantastic.

Here I am playing Rogue Trader finally (I already loved the 40k universe) and it's really scratching an itch that JRPGs were failing to. Having impactful choices, agency, and feeling like I'm creating a story rather than being told one on top of the deep and complex mechanics feels like I can really sink my teeth in for a long adventure instead of being on rails. Plus, who doesn't love spraying a bolter into a crowd where all their heads explode?

I feel like I've been searching the last few years for games that scratch that itch but I didn't know what could. This might actually be it. I can just get lost in the world for several hours on end which has been been very difficult for me to do lately.
 
WRPGs and CRPGs are the royal genre of videogames for a reason. They offer greatest amount of freedom and player agency and interactivity in both story and action - the things that make videogame a unique medium.
 
Then you should play


because they're both better than BG3 in a lot of aspects, DOS2 for gameplay and WotRE for its rpg mechanics(it will take you 2 hours to build a character). BG3 is better than both in story choices/characters/overall cinematic value, but its rpg mechanics are not that deep and while DOS2 isn't super deep either I found it a lot more fun due to its elementals.
 
Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR and Baldur's Gate 2 are my favorites, specially the last one which must be one of the greatest adventures in a game.

Tried getting into other, more modern titles but couldn't. The writting in Pillars of Eternity is too boring, Divinity OS felt very, very slow and I think I'm too dumb for Pathfinder. :goog_relieved:
 
And here I am only having completed dragon age origins (that's a crpg right?) and bailing out on most around hour 10.

Rogue trader I made it to 40 hours? Baldurs 3 about 50. I just feel like these games do not respect my time.

I like most of what is on offer. I still think if Larian made a Diablo like id never need another game again.
 
Well if you discovered these games now there is certainly no shortage of them to play.

They're not for everyone but yea lots of great ones.

Arsic said:
I like most of what is on offer. I still think if Larian made a Diablo like id never need another game again.
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Literally their first game was a Diablo like.

www.gog.com

Divine Divinity

Listed among the "Top 100 PC Games Of All Time" by PC GAMER (2012), Divine Divinity is an
www.gog.com www.gog.com
 
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Yeah, Owlcat and Larian are delivering great stuff. Could also mention inExile - the Wasteland series. Also great games. Unfortunately they are now under the M$ hood and seem to be ordered to strive away from cRPG's.
 
diffusionx said:
Well if you discovered these games now there is certainly no shortage of them to play.

They're not for everyone but yea lots of great ones.


Literally their first game was a Diablo like.

www.gog.com

Divine Divinity

Listed among the "Top 100 PC Games Of All Time" by PC GAMER (2012), Divine Divinity is an
www.gog.com www.gog.com
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How is it? Is it timeless like Diablo 2?

No one talks about this game.
 
The Cockatrice said:
Then you should play


because they're both better than BG3 in a lot of aspects, DOS2 for gameplay and WotRE for its rpg mechanics(it will take you 2 hours to build a character). BG3 is better than both in story choices/characters/overall cinematic value, but its rpg mechanics are not that deep and while DOS2 isn't super deep either I found it a lot more fun due to its elementals.
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Yeah, I bought them a while back. Even had DOS2 before BG3 but didn't try very hard to get into it.

I definitely will now. And now that I understand the Owlcat formula, I'm looking forward to really trying WotRE as I know that's #1 on a lot of CRPG fan's lists.
 
diffusionx said:
Well if you discovered these games now there is certainly no shortage of them to play.

They're not for everyone but yea lots of great ones.


Literally their first game was a Diablo like.

www.gog.com

Divine Divinity

Listed among the "Top 100 PC Games Of All Time" by PC GAMER (2012), Divine Divinity is an
www.gog.com www.gog.com
Click to expand...
Can't miss for less than 1€. Thanks for the recommendation, seems to be more open-ended and RPG-esque than Diablo.
 
Try playing Solasta co op with a friend. You each create two characters. Personally I think it does DND5E combat better than BG3. One of their homebrew Monk subclass is better than the options in BG3. Rogue Trader is excellent and in my top 5 favorite games of all time. Wasteland 3 is a great game as well.
 
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TintoConCasera said:
Can't miss for less than 1€. Thanks for the recommendation, seems to be more open-ended and RPG-esque than Diablo.
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We need more games that are not endgame games as a service model in this genre. Titan quest 2 is firing on all cylinders for that for my tastes.

That said, if anyone could do a long supported title in this space it would be Larian. They could forget the MTX seasons shit and just do a yearly or bi yearly expansion route.

I'd be moist.

Exited to try divine divinity.
 
The Cockatrice said:
Then you should play


because they're both better than BG3 in a lot of aspects, DOS2 for gameplay and WotRE for its rpg mechanics(it will take you 2 hours to build a character). BG3 is better than both in story choices/characters/overall cinematic value, but its rpg mechanics are not that deep and while DOS2 isn't super deep either I found it a lot more fun due to its elementals.
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Divinity OS2 is a really good recommendation. Wrath of the Righteous is a whole different beast though. It's a great game but it can be pretty bloody obtuse if you're not familiar with the Pathfinder ruleset.

Fortunately Owlcat provide a shit ton of reading materials in game to help understand some of the systems, but it's a lot of additional reading.
 
TintoConCasera said:
Hell yeah my man. More adventure, less grind skinnerbox. If Titan Quest 2 is more of the former then I'll add it to my list.
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It is. It's like $23 on steam for early access right now. If you get it now you will save on the cost because the cost they said will go up later.

You can get about 8 hours for a first playthrough.

Game had 0 micros and will focus on expansions. It's so good. Performance is spotty at times but it plays amazing, looks fantastic, etc.
 
DOS2 is my favorite one besides BG3 but I heard they were doing a remake so you may want to wait on that if it is true.

Also, DOS2 was very difficult for me when I first started. They have done many updates since then and a major update that iirc increased the amount of default action points all characters have by 2(HUGE). So it may be easier now(too easy?)

There was nothing like DOS2 when I really didn't understand the battle system and struggled my way thru it.

One of my fondest memories. Anything Owlcat or Larian should be good to go. Yes you have missed out. Alt options are Disco Elysium and Pillars of Eternity. JRPGs are good genre too, just a different flavor. If you get into CRPGs you can swap between them for pallet cleansers. SRPGs are great too. Check out Expedition 33, Unicorn Overlord, Triangle Strategy, Xenoblade Chronicles series and a few others for the high end.
 
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Lucifers Beard said:
Divinity OS2 is a really good recommendation. Wrath of the Righteous is a whole different beast though. It's a great game but it can be pretty bloody obtuse if you're not familiar with the Pathfinder ruleset.

Fortunately Owlcat provide a shit ton of reading materials in game to help understand some of the systems, but it's a lot of additional reading.
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yeah, it took me 2 playthroughs to understand most of its stuff and I'm on a third replay now after some break and I'm lost again. It's also the reason why it has such a huge replay value.
 
TintoConCasera said:
Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR and Baldur's Gate 2 are my favorites, specially the last one which must be one of the greatest adventures in a game.

Tried getting into other, more modern titles but couldn't. The writting in Pillars of Eternity is too boring, Divinity OS felt very, very slow and I think I'm too dumb for Pathfinder. :goog_relieved:
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Go for Divinity OS2 or BG3, they are much more dynamic storywise. Pillars 2 is a lot less boring vs 1, IMO, just watch plot summary on YouTube.

And Wrath of the Righteous possibly has the best CRPG magic and build system I have seen but play that after the others! 😉
 
Mister Wolf said:
Try playing Solasta co op with a friend. You each create two characters. Personally I think it does DND5E combat better than BG3. One of their homebrew Monk subclass is better than the options in BG3. Rogue Trader is excellent and in my top 5 favorite games of all time. Wasteland 3 is a great game as well.
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Solasta 2 is now out as well (or about to be out), but I haven't tried it yet.
 
The three best that I've played recently OTHER than Baldur's Gate 3 are the following:

Divinity: Original Sin 2
Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous
Wasteland 3

Each excellent and each from a different developer. However, they all have the one thing that I think is absolutely necessary: turned-based combat.

Real-time with Pause works for some people, but my dumb brain just can't keep up with the frantic chaos. Turned-based always feels the most technical and tactical and simulates the pace of authentic Dungeons & Dragons combat the best.

Also special shoutout to Solasta: Crown of the Magister. Amazing combat and UI, and it's also the only other game besides BG3 to actually use the official D&D 5e ruleset. It's definitely lower budget than the other games, and the story is much more linear, but you can tell the developers are talented as hell and Solasta 2 is basically #1 on my upcoming games list.
 
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Hemingwayoffbase said:
Real-time with Pause works for some people, but my dumb brain just can't keep up with the frantic chaos. Turned-based always feels the most technical and tactical and simulates the pace of authentic Dungeons & Dragons combat the best.
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Its nice to have RtwP as an option (and if the game is somehow designed for it)....but yeah....nothing beats the feeling of decimating a group of mobs in just one turn. :pie_starstruck:


Btw, Jagged Alliance 3.....was great as well: https://www.gog.com/en/game/jagged_alliance_3
 
TintoConCasera said:
Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR and Baldur's Gate 2 are my favorites, specially the last one which must be one of the greatest adventures in a game.

Tried getting into other, more modern titles but couldn't. The writting in Pillars of Eternity is too boring, Divinity OS felt very, very slow and I think I'm too dumb for Pathfinder. :goog_relieved:
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Dude, the writing in Pillars of Eternity made me read books again, it was great. That was back in 2015.
 
The Cockatrice said:
Nah, they're not. They're all full with the new game. It's not a huge studio.
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Perhaps it was just the definitive edition already on PC getting a PS5/XSX update that I was thinking about:



Though...that has been almost a year...honestly really hope this is coming and kinda hyped if it does.
 
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For new retro-style crpgs, theres not that many of them: larian made divinity 1+2 and BG 3, owlcat made 2 pathfinder games and 40k, there is the shadowrun trilogy and wastelands 1-3. Also obsidian made two pillars games and tyranny. Like 15 games total. Once you get through those, there's really nothing new. Unless you want to go back and replay the classics.
 
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How's your tolerance for old games? (we're talking 256 color VGA @ 640x480). If that's ok I highly recommend Planescape Torment, the original Fallouts and Baldur's Gate 1-2.
Torment and baldur's gate have enhanced editions, but there's old design and some jank there.



Torment might be the most engrossing of the bunch and features several books worth of text. The choices are pretty advanced in places and you can for example promise something, depending on if you deliver on the promise it'll affect the story and your alignment.
 
Rush2112 said:
For new retro-style crpgs, theres not that many of them: larian made divinity 1+2 and BG 3, owlcat made 2 pathfinder games and 40k, there is the shadowrun trilogy and wastelands 1-3. Also obsidian made two pillars games and tyranny. Like 15 games total. Once you get through those, there's really nothing new. Unless you want to go back and replay the classics.
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Probably why when we do get a new one it is a big deal. They don't throw these out every year like some other games. Thankfully, when you play one of these games you are typically playing an incredibly involved game that will last many hours. I think Mister Wolf Mister Wolf clocked in well over 200 hours with Rogue Trader. I'm in chapter 4 for rogue trader and it is looking like I'll have as much time as he did.
 
Holammer said:
How's your tolerance for old games? (we're talking 256 color VGA @ 640x480). If that's ok I highly recommend Planescape Torment, the original Fallouts and Baldur's Gate 1-2.
Torment and baldur's gate have enhanced editions, but there's old design and some jank there.



Torment might be the most engrossing of the bunch and features several books worth of text. The choices are pretty advanced in places and you can for example promise something, depending on if you deliver on the promise it'll affect the story and your alignment.
Click to expand...


I play a lot of older games so that's not really an issue. However, I've heard while Planescape is fantastic, that it's practically a book with little/poor combat.

Is that true? While I like a good story in these games, I want them still be...games.
 
The two new school 90s CRPG revival games that everyone loves are Fallout 1 and Planescape: Torment.

But if you want something new that feels like a real original era CPRG then try this.


BossLackey said:
I play a lot of older games so that's not really an issue. However, I've heard while Planescape is fantastic, that it's practically a book with little/poor combat.

Is that true? While I like a good story in these games, I want them still be...games.
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There is plenty of combat in PS:T with the highlight being some good animation for high level spells. But people compare the amount of combat in these games to other infinity engine games like Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale which are ludicrously over loaded with combat encounters so they can feel more like diablo than a tabletop game.
 
BossLackey said:
I play a lot of older games so that's not really an issue. However, I've heard while Planescape is fantastic, that it's practically a book with little/poor combat.

Is that true? While I like a good story in these games, I want them still be...games.
Click to expand...
It's an Infinity Engine game - it has fine and relatively abundant combat, so long as you like that sort.
 
Topher said:
Probably why when we do get a new one it is a big deal. They don't throw these out every year like some other games. Thankfully, when you play one of these games you are typically playing an incredibly involved game that will last many hours. I think Mister Wolf Mister Wolf clocked in well over 200 hours with Rogue Trader. I'm in chapter 4 for rogue trader and it is looking like I'll have as much time as he did.
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And there are more games which were smaller in scope which came out. I probably have couple dozen on my wishlist but haven't bothered … because like Topher Topher mentioned, many take a long time to get through as it is.

I will have to go through my wishlist on Steam and see what's out there. And there are more releasing this year and next.
 
The Cockatrice said:
Then you should play


because they're both better than BG3 in a lot of aspects, DOS2 for gameplay and WotRE for its rpg mechanics(it will take you 2 hours to build a character). BG3 is better than both in story choices/characters/overall cinematic value, but its rpg mechanics are not that deep and while DOS2 isn't super deep either I found it a lot more fun due to its elementals.
Click to expand...
I mean, your assessment of them is TRASH, but overall they are both good suggestions, sure.
 
Wildebeest said:
There is plenty of combat in PS:T with the highlight being some good animation for high level spells. But people compare the amount of combat in these games to other infinity engine games like Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale which are ludicrously over loaded with combat encounters so they can feel more like diablo than a tabletop game.
Click to expand...

Oh well in that case, I'm perfectly fine with that level of combat. I definitely don't need to have an encounter every ten feet at all.
 
Some recommendations:

- Baldurs Gate 1+2 Enhanced Edition. Basically take your character through all the games and expansion. A bit old, but the game is still great. Truly the definition of epic adventure.
- Neverwinter Nights Enhanced Edition. Main Campaign is a bit boring but the expansions are very solid and it has a ton of content via modules and DLCs. Most of which are free. The mod scene is insane.
- Neverwinter Nights 2, The new enhanced edition just came out on Steam but it's a bit buggy, wait for some patches. Main game is decent and the expansion is a gem, probably one of the best.
- Dragon Age Origins and expansion. A bit mechanically simplified, but it has some great characters. Not my favourite on the list, but the tone is quite different. More grim dark.
- Pillars of Eternity 1, writing is a bit dry, but it is mechanically solid with some really interesting lore and settings in the later half of the game. Good DLC as well.
- Pillars of Eternity 2, better writing this time around and also really fun to play. DLC also shines. Setting is rather unique as well.
- Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Pretty boring main plot but you get to conquer a new region and become a ruler. Part kingdom manager as well.
- Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. Mechanically the most complex and with a shit ton of options. Defining your character via mythic paths also makes for very different play styles. Run a crusade against the demon invasion any way you see fit.
- Tyranny. Almost never mentioned but this one is special. The way you can switch sides and how your decision reverberate are great.
 
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BossLackey said:
Oh well in that case, I'm perfectly fine with that level of combat. I definitely don't need to have an encounter every ten feet at all.
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You might want to put a pause on the Owlcat Pathfinder games as well if you feel like that. Some people prefer Solasta over Pathfinder just because the combat seems more in line with tabletop.
 
Zathalus said:
Some recommendations:

- Baldurs Gate 1+2 Enhanced Edition. Basically take your character through all the games and expansion. A bit old, but the game is still great. Truly the definition of epic adventure.
- Neverwinter Nights Enhanced Edition. Main Campaign is a bit boring but the expansions are very solid and it has a ton of content via modules and DLCs. Most of which are free. The mod scene is insane.
- Neverwinter Nights 2, The new enhanced edition just came out on Steam but it's a bit buggy, wait for some patches. Main game is decent and the expansion is a gem, probably one of the best.
- Dragon Age Origins and expansion. A bit mechanically simplified, but it has some great characters. Not my favourite on the list, but the tone is quite different. More grim dark.
- Pillars of Eternity 1, writing is a bit dry, but it is mechanically solid with some really interesting lore and settings in the later half of the game. Good DLC as well.
- Pillars of Eternity 2, better writing this time around and also really fun to play. DLC also shines. Setting is rather unique as well.
- Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Pretty boring main plot but you get to conquer a new region and become a ruler. Part kingdom manager as well.
- Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. Mechanically the most complex and with a shit ton of options. Defining your character via mythic paths also makes for very different play styles. Run a crusade against the demon invasion any way you see fit.
- Tyranny. Almost never mentioned but this one is special. The way you can switch sides and how your decision reverberate are great.
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Need to add BG3, Wasteland 2&3 (3 is a lot better), Fallout 1&2, and Icewind Dale 1&2.

Oh, and of course I highly recommend Battletech and Shadowrun games by HBS.
 
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they take far too long to play for someone like me that has limited time for gaming. If you have the time though, sure, there are some great ones out there.

My personal favourite is pillars 2.
 
Wildebeest said:
You might want to put a pause on the Owlcat Pathfinder games as well if you feel like that. Some people prefer Solasta over Pathfinder just because the combat seems more in line with tabletop.
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Pathfinder is amazing though and Solasta story is barebones.

Personally my favorite CRPG is probably Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous as the build system and the storyline/characters are great.
 
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