• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hawking cracks black hole paradox

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'd like to know why Nasa contracted a spacecraft to be designed that looked like a gothic cathedral where every door opened in a differn't fashion much like the intro of MST3K, and had killer spikes lining the walls in the hyperspace chamber thing.

Most unrealistic production design of all time.
 

fart

Savant
Willco said:
I take away my previous commentary on your humour and wit in IRC just a few hours ago. That was awful, made no sense and I put a curse on your entire family for it!
eh, win some lose some
 

nitewulf

Member
there is no reason that a black hole would look like a puddle. the event horizon isnt a "thing" per se, its the distance where the escape velocity of an object would have to be greater than light. and light being the fastest EM wave known in existance, there is nothing that can escape the black hole, even light itself. thats the idea. its explained better with 3d pictures and newton's universal gravitational law.
for reference, we know that earth has a certain gravitational pull. a rocket has to have a greater thrust in order to lift off AND escape earth's gravitational pull. that thrust is known as escape velocity.
the same way. a black hole is a massive object, and due to its concentrated mass, has tremendous gravitational pull. an object, a "rocket" if you will, will have to accelarate greater than light in order to pull itself off the gravitational pull of a black hole. and of course, thats not possible, so everything is just pulled "in".
 
Willco said:
I have a question for you physics nerds. So if black holes exist, which I've seen footage of none (where is my footage, bitches!), wouldn't the universe eventually get sucked up in one giant black hole and cease to exist?

Then what happens?
Just because a black hole has a strong gravitational pull doesn't mean it's going to suck the entire universe in or anything. If, say, an entire universe were somehow compressed to a small volume, it would be a black hole. But from our vantage point millions of light years away, there'd be no big difference; it would still be the same amount of mass centered in the same area.
 

-=DoAvl=-

Member
This string theory business sounds interesting... gotta read up on it!


Does anyone wanna explain wormhole theory? I still don't understand how it works. I mean, if two black holes are connected to each other to form a tunnel (or a fold in space or woteva), then how would you escape through the other side? What I mean is, both portals are entrances, not exits.



wait... there *is* such a thing as wormhole theory right? and i'm not just mixing my reality/non reality up again...argh!
 
-=DoAvl=- said:
Does anyone wanna explain wormhole theory? I still don't understand how it works. I mean, if two black holes are connected to each other to form a tunnel (or a fold in space or woteva), then how would you escape through the other side? What I mean is, both portals are entrances, not exits.
I don't think there's a single "wormhole theory". What I think you're talking about, though, would be most like this theory, where it's not exactly two black holes connecting, but a black hole on one side and a white hole on the other. Problem is,

A white hole is a black hole running backwards in time. Just as black holes swallow things irretrievably, so also do white holes spit them out. White holes cannot exist, since they violate the second law of thermodynamics.
 

Kuramu

Member
sorry to nitpick, as you do have the gist of it

nitewulf said:
... light being the fastest EM wave known in existance ...

all EM waves travel at the same velocity (in a given medium) there is no fastest EM radiation
 

nitewulf

Member
ok, you are right, i solved tons of EM problems and used C as the approximate speed of EM waves for free space...sometimes i tend to overlook the obvious.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
nitewulf said:
string theory, i presume string theory to be the new physics of the upcoming decades. it'll create all new frontiers and solve many previously unsolved problems. just like quantum mechanics did in the last century.
we need another explosion of great mathematicians and physicists like einstein, bose, heisenberg, feinman, fermi etc.
We are going to take a big step towards testing some string theory stuff scientifically begining with the Large Hadron Collider (2007). It will be our first oportunity to test for signs of "extradimensional" effects and perhaps lend physical credence to a > 4 dimensional universe.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20000219/bob1.asp
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/about/future/future.html
 

Phoenix

Member
Willco said:
I have a question for you physics nerds. So if black holes exist, which I've seen footage of none (where is my footage, bitches!)?

Black Holes: Collapsed Stars

A black hole, simply put, is a massive, dead star whose gravity is so intense than even light cannot escape, hence its name. By definition, it can't be seen, so NASA scientists focused instead on the tiny core of the galaxy M87, a super massive “cosmic engine” 50 million light years from earth. Astronomers then showed that the core of M87 consisted of a ferocious, swirling maelstrom of superhot hydrogen gas spinning at l.2 million miles per hour. To keep this spinning disk of gas from violently flying apart in all directions, there had to be a colossal mass concentrated at its center, weighing as much as 2 to 3 billion suns! An object with that staggering mass would be massive enough to prevent light from escaping. Ergo, a black hole.


In addition, a black hole doesn't gradually draw thing into it like some massive mouth. An object (or the rest of the universe) is free to orbit a black hole forever so long as it doesn't go past the event horizon - at which point it is destined to go somewhere that we don't yet have a clear definition for :)
 

Phoenix

Member
-=DoAvl=- said:
This string theory business sounds interesting... gotta read up on it!


Does anyone wanna explain wormhole theory? I still don't understand how it works. I mean, if two black holes are connected to each other to form a tunnel (or a fold in space or woteva), then how would you escape through the other side? What I mean is, both portals are entrances, not exits.



wait... there *is* such a thing as wormhole theory right? and i'm not just mixing my reality/non reality up again...argh!

Yes there is a wormhole theory - though we're getting into more speculative quantum mechanics than there are equations to cleanly describe.

The Einstein-Rosen Bridge

But this also revives an ongoing controversy surrounding black holes. The best description of a spinning black hole was given in 1963 by the New Zealand mathematician Roy Kerr, using Einstein's equations of gravity. But there is a quirky feature to his solution. It predicts that if one fell into a black hole, one might be sucked down a tunnel (called the “Einstein-Rosen bridge”) and shot out a “white hole” in a parallel universe! Kerr showed that a spinning black hole would collapse not into a point, but to a “ring of fire.” Because the ring was spinning rapidly, centrifugal forces would keep it from collapsing. Remarkably, a space probe fired directly through the ring would not be crushed into oblivion, but might actually emerge unscratched on the other side of the Einstein-Rosen bridge, in a parallel universe. This “wormhole” may connect two parallel universes, or even distant parts of the same universe.

So let me start down a longer deeper discussion of what is 'is'. We think of the universe as a general 3 dimensional surface that is filled with nothing. This causes two wrinkes in common observation.

1) Light is a wave always... and it travels through space... which means it must interact with SOMETHING in it and this something is a thing that we can't yet describe but is actually encapsulated in string theory. Back in the day some postulated that there was something is space that light interacted with and called it aether, however scientifically we have proven that there is no substance in the dead of space so that can't be it.

2) Light bends as it crosses space which also means that as its travelling through space its interacting with SOMETHING. This is described as our universe being warped by a force of another dimension. Now don't think of half life and alien zombies when you think of another dimension. Think of dimensions the same way you do a cartesian coordinate system from geometry - x, y, and z. This is how we perceive the universe and locate things in it.
What's being said is that there is some other dimension w that is also a part of the equation which is not the same as the temporal dimension (time) usually referred to as t.


With that in mind you can think of our third dimensional universe as the surface of an apple being bent around some dimension(s) w. On the surface you can see and perceive everything in 3 dimensions. Suppose you were a worm on the apple - its all good - life is normal on the surface of the universe. Now suppose you could eat through the apple and come out at another point on the apple. This 'worm hole' would therefore be a shortcut through the apple (our universe) to some other location on the other side that could be achieved by passing through this dimension(s) w.

It will be interesting to see if (as some point likely 10 thousand years from now when we have enough energy and knowledge to take this trip) the dimension t has any impact on things passing through dimensions(s) w. If they don't then it is possible for time to not pass while going through the wormhole in the universe allowing 'instantaneous' trips if you created the wormhole. It would also follow that if the time dimension has no impact on travel through the wormhole, the wormhole (if connecting back to our own universe) could spit you out at a different point in the temporal dimension.


All of that is to say - superstring theory (the more accepted name) is COOL AS SHIT and the more we understnad the universe, the closer we get to being able to prove that this is more than likely the way the universe works. Get excited, study math, and go be a physicist damnit!

Now, all of this stuff isn't just 'pull it out of your ass' science. Basically this is all the unification of quantum physics (the study of really small shit at the sub atomic level) and regular physics (the study of really large shit like planets and people). To merge these two together into an equation that would express them both simultaneously (and you need to do this at some point because neither follow the rules of the other) you would have described a universe that contains 10 dimensions. As we understand more and more about the universe - indeed science does start to look a whole lot like science fiction.
 
Phoenix said:
With that in mind you can think of our third dimensional universe as the surface of an apple being bent around some dimension(s) w. On the surface you can see and perceive everything in 3 dimensions. Suppose you were a worm on the apple - its all good - life is normal on the surface of the universe. Now suppose you could eat through the apple and come out at another point on the apple. This 'worm hole' would therefore be a shortcut through the apple (our universe) to some other location on the other side that could be achieved by passing through this dimension(s) w.
o_O Is that actually where the term wormhole came from? I'd never given it much thought.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom