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HD disillusionment

Solideliquid said:
I can't really tell if there is a difference between HD TV, regular DVDs, and Blue Ray disc.
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What? You're blind. Grab some screenshots yourself and do a side by side comparison. Then it'll be more obvious, although it should be pretty obvious to you from the start.

If it's not, there may be a problem somewhere.
 
Ah, so the problem was quickly discovered. Those Samsung slimfit TVs are crap when it comes to handling HD material. It's absolutely true that you will see only a minor difference between 480p and 1080i on such a display.

Those suggesting that a 1366x768 display is incapable of handling Blu-ray properly need to get THEIR eyes checked, however. 1080p is nice, but it does not make a large difference at all. There' still a massive leap in quailty over DVD when using a 768p display.

At this point, I still prefer using such a display (Pioneer Kuro 5080) simply because most content (games) are in 720p and on the PC side, it's easier to drive games at 1366x768 with AA than 1080p. Material of the 720p variety looks much better on a 768p display than it does on a 1080p display (IMO).

What? You're blind. Grab some screenshots yourself and do a side by side comparison. Then it'll be more obvious, although it should be pretty obvious to you from the start.
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He's using a Samsung Slimfit CRT. That is the problem.
 
Even at 40" 1080p makes a rather striking difference imo. CC has a bank of 40"-42" flat panel LCDs all on the same row and the 1080p sets are very easy to pick out. Don't care what the tests say, the resolution bump is easily noticeable, particularly against 720p plasmas that aren't called Pioneer, which break up like mad due to screen door effect.
 
Whether the difference between HD and SD is worth the cost depends on the person, but if you can't see the difference you need glasses.
 
JB1981 said:
Even at 40" 1080p makes a rather striking difference imo. CC has a bank of 40"-42" flat panel LCDs all on the same row and the 1080p sets are very easy to pick out. Don't care what the tests say, the resolution bump is easily noticeable, particularly against 720p plasmas that aren't called Pioneer, which break up like mad due to screen door effect.
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It's not tough to understand. When you go to a store you look at screens from close by, not at a normal viewing distance.
 
Though I have a 2002-era Sony XBR CRT, the difference is night and day.

On my Dell monitor, even adjusting the PS3 frontend between 720p and 1080p makes a noticeable difference.
 
cedric69 said:
It's not tough to understand. When you go to a store you look at screens from close by, not at a normal viewing distance.
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That's the whole point of the bump in resolution - you can sit closer to your TV. Dur. You can now sit like 8ft away from a 65" TV and see no pixel breakup. That's why the resolution is important. Bubububu if you sit far away, there is no benefit! Luddites! The lot of you!
 
cedric69 said:
It's not tough to understand. When you go to a store you look at screens from close by, not at a normal viewing distance.
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Pretty much. When standing right up in front of a 1080p display, yes, the difference is obvious due to the smaller pixels.

When actually using these displays from the proper view distance, however, it becomes less of an issue. Whether or not you select 1080p depends upon the view distance you will be using at home. If you plan to sit really close to a big display, it would probably be worthwhile.

Still, I maintain that 1080p is bad for 720p content. I mean, it looks reasonable, but I feel that the resulting scaling is somewhat ugly. Akin to using a PC LCD at a non-native resolution. That's the main issue for me. The only 1080p content I really use is Blu-ray, and that scales 1080p to 1366x768 at 24 fps. I could use my PC at 1080p, of course, but that is FAR more demanding. 1366x768 is much easier to drive. Most console games are 720p and I much prefer the appearance of them on a lower resolution display.
 
Dark10x,
In your opinion would you buy a 40 inch 720p set or a smaller 1080p?

I can't afford >40inches in 1080p :(


EDIT: That samsung 42 inch plasma (720p) is on amazon.com for $999!
 
I just got the Samsung 3242H (32' 720p/1080i). Would an upconvert DVD player really be a big difference at a 10ft viewing distance? Or BluRay for that matter?
 
Solideliquid said:
Dark10x,
In your opinion would you buy a 40 inch 720p set or a smaller 1080p?

I can't afford >40inches in 1080p :(


EDIT: That samsung 42 inch plasma (720p) is on amazon.com for $999!
Click to expand...
How close do you plan to sit and what do you want to do with it?
 
This is a battle I have with my wife daily. I have 20/10 vision so I can see every detail and a drastic difference between HD and upscaled SD content (and even between 720/1080p) on a 32" TV. She, on the other hand barely notices the difference between SD cable and HD. :X
 
You must be blind then. I can tell the difference between SD and HD full screen content on my 15" laptop screen easily.
Are you sure that your PS3 isn't connected with composite or that you didn't mess with you settings?
 
dark10x said:
Still, I maintain that 1080p is bad for 720p content. I mean, it looks reasonable, but I feel that the resulting scaling is somewhat ugly. Akin to using a PC LCD at a non-native resolution. That's the main issue for me. The only 1080p content I really use is Blu-ray, and that scales 1080p to 1366x768 at 24 fps. I could use my PC at 1080p, of course, but that is FAR more demanding. 1366x768 is much easier to drive. Most console games are 720p and I much prefer the appearance of them on a lower resolution display.
Click to expand...

Honestly since most 720p TVs are actually 1366*768 and 720p is not native anyway, I do not see a reason why scaling to 1080p would be worse. Actually, taking into account that there are more pixels available in 1920*1080 than in 1366*768, quality of scaling should actually be better (in theory). How it is in practice, thats another question.

On topic, though, its hard to believe that someone cant see a difference with increased resolution. I mean, just set your monitor now to 640*480 and try to read gaf. See the difference?

However, size of monitor and distance are important. Now try to play some SD resolution full screen video on your monitor. Get closer to the screen. Closer. A bit closer. Dont lick it. See all those huge pixelation and blur? Ugly, isnt it? Now step back. Another step. Bit more. Wow, looks kinda ok now! Now try it with HD video and you'll notice that "ok" stage is actually starting much closer to the screen. If your monitor would be twice as big, "ok" line would be somewhat further. Precise position is, of course, individual, but general trend for all is the same.
Now, if stay at SD "ok" position, both HD and SD content would look the same to you, since, our eyes are not telescopic normally and do not have magnifying possibilities. They are actually pathetically weak in comparison with awesome 1000x eyes of space robots that gonna conquer the Earth soon. Yea.

Step closer and HD is still "ok" but SD is starting to appear washed out, and difference will grow with every step to the screen. Ultimately at closest possible distance HD will still look better than SD, since it has more information stored originally. Dont lick it, damn it!
 
Honestly since most 720p TVs are actually 1366*768 and 720p is not native anyway, I do not see a reason why scaling to 1080p would be worse. Actually, taking into account that there are more pixels available in 1920*1080 than in 1366*768, quality of scaling should actually be better (in theory). How it is in practice, thats another question.
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For me, on a 768p display, 720p games seem to have a sharper look that seems to jive better with the pixel structure (despite the fact that 720p is not its native resolution). On 1080p displays, the edges appear somewhat blurrier overall. Everything has a soft, scaled look to it. That's not the case with 768p displays, in my experience.
 
bloodforge said:
I've found, oddly enough, that if you really want to be wowed by HD buy an older movie from around the 60's/70's on an HD format(an old western would be perfect). They have little to no film grain like modern movies have in HD and most look stunning. A CG animated movie in HD would also be a large difference from SD to HD.

If you still can't tell the difference maybe you need to calibrate your TV better, or get new eyes.
Click to expand...


^^
I was meh on the difference between DVD and BRD until I saw Ice Age 2 (?) in HD. A very discernable difference in depth, color and quality.
 
Set the resolution on the system to be lower, like 480p. Run your movies/games, and then run it on 1080p or 720p. If you don't see a difference, then you have failed.
 
Solideliquid said:
I know we have an HD thread but I feel this would be ignored there.


Maybe I just need glasses, but I can't really tell if there is a difference between HD TV, regular DVDs, and Blue Ray disc. I playing DMC4 on PS3 in 480 vs 720p I can totally see the difference.


I watch TV on a 32inch Samsung slimfit which is 720p/1080i. I play computer, Xbox 360, and PS3 games on my BenQ 22" (w/ HDMI) monitor.

Is it just that my displays aren't big enough to notice the difference? I mean I watched Sunshine on iTunes (rental) and then on blue ray same 22" monitor and it seems the same.
Click to expand...


This is the WORSE TV ever made. The image is crap no matter how you set it. Your problem is right there believe me. Buy a better TV (aka any TV you see out there)
 
Solideliquid said:
I would sit about eight ft away. I'd like to play xbox360 and ps3 games as well as watchblue ray movies on the ps3.
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Personally, at eight ft, I think you'll be fine with the 720p plasma. The fact is, if you went with a smaller 1080p display, it would be an LCD. So, that's another benefit there.
 
dark10x said:
Personally, at eight ft, I think you'll be fine with the 720p plasma. The fact is, if you went with a smaller 1080p display, it would be an LCD. So, that's another benefit there.
Click to expand...

Remember when the PS3 was released certain games wouldn't play in HD on a 720P? They would be scaled down to 480p for some reason.


Would getting the 42" 720P Plasma be a mistake in this regard?
 
You should be able to see the difference between a 480p and 720p native... and you will definitely notice the difference between a 720p and a 1080p with a TV that features 120hz.

if you dont believe me... stop by a circuitcity or bestbuy and ask for a demonstration.
 
Solideliquid said:
Remember when the PS3 was released certain games wouldn't play in HD on a 720P? They would be scaled down to 480p for some reason.


Would getting the 42" 720P Plasma be a mistake in this regard?
Click to expand...

I think that was only for TVs that didn't support 720p, just 480p and 1080i (most/some CRTs, I believe)
 
fistfulofmetal said:
I'm here to help you see
DVD:
sq1tmc.jpg

HD-DVD:
e5s83o.jpg
Click to expand...

When people post these pictures they just seem flawed to me. DVD quality isn't blurry at all. The HD-DVD picture looks like DVD quality. The first picture looks like a bloody VHS.

What I also noticed is that DVD's don;t look that great on an HDTV compared to a regular tv, similar to the trend at which last gen games look like ass on an hdtv but look normal on a regular television.
 
knicks said:
When people post these pictures they just seem flawed to me. DVD quality isn't blurry at all. The HD-DVD picture looks like DVD quality. The first picture looks like a bloody VHS.

What I also noticed is that DVD's don;t look that great on an HDTV compared to a regular tv, similar to the trend at which last gen games look like ass on an hdtv but look normal on a regular television.
Click to expand...

That's because DVDs are too low res for HDTVs which is WHY Blu-Ray (and HDDVD) exists. A high resolution source for a high resolution display.

DVDs look acceptable on regular SDTVs because regular SDTVs suck enough to hide the flaws.
 
knicks said:
What I also noticed is that DVD's don;t look that great on an HDTV compared to a regular tv, similar to the trend at which last gen games look like ass on an hdtv but look normal on a regular television.
Click to expand...

In my experience, if you've got a good upscaling player (e.g., PS3)--this is not the case at all. Wii and SDTV of course can be different stories.
 
knicks said:
When people post these pictures they just seem flawed to me. DVD quality isn't blurry at all. The HD-DVD picture looks like DVD quality. The first picture looks like a bloody VHS.

What I also noticed is that DVD's don;t look that great on an HDTV compared to a regular tv, similar to the trend at which last gen games look like ass on an hdtv but look normal on a regular television.
Click to expand...
Do you really think people are faking those captures? That's not even a full resolution shot of an HD-DVD.

That's an accurate representation of a DVD. There's only so much you can do with such low resolution material. In that shot, do you see the red "jag" sign in the back there? On an SDTV, you could not possibly read that detail when using a DVD (just as you can't see it in that DVD shot). That demonstrates the lack of detail.

Now, an SDTV is low resolution enough that such a source ends up looking reasonable...but it WILL be lacking the finer details of HD (that's the whole point of HD).
 
Solideliquid said:
I know we have an HD thread but I feel this would be ignored there.


Maybe I just need glasses, but I can't really tell if there is a difference between HD TV, regular DVDs, and Blue Ray disc. I playing DMC4 on PS3 in 480 vs 720p I can totally see the difference.


I watch TV on a 32inch Samsung slimfit which is 720p/1080i. I play computer, Xbox 360, and PS3 games on my BenQ 22" (w/ HDMI) monitor.

Is it just that my displays aren't big enough to notice the difference? I mean I watched Sunshine on iTunes (rental) and then on blue ray same 22" monitor and it seems the same.
Click to expand...


Troll much?
 
dark10x said:
Do you really think people are faking those captures? That's not even a full resolution shot of an HD-DVD.

That's an accurate representation of a DVD. There's only so much you can do with such low resolution material. In that shot, do you see the red "jag" sign in the back there? On an SDTV, you could not possibly read that detail when using a DVD (just as you can't see it in that DVD shot). That demonstrates the lack of detail.
Click to expand...

I don't quite understand how you can say that's not a full res shot of HD and then say it's legitimate shot of DVD when they are the same size. Nothing will ever look that bad on a normal DVD unless you go out of your way to make it so.
 
If I remember correctly those Samsung Slimfits aren't really full HD, I could have sworn I read somewhere (maybe here or AVS forums) that they only actually have 800 lines of resolution instead of the full 1280.
 
Shin Johnpv said:
If I remember correctly those Samsung Slimfits aren't really full HD, I could have sworn I read somewhere (maybe here or AVS forums) that they only actually have 800 lines of resolution instead of the full 1280.
Click to expand...

They are the worse TVs ever made. You can't make ANYTHING look good. Even SD stuff in 480i or p looks like some blurry crap.

The guy cannot judge ANY image with this TV. I've seen those TVs, tried to set them for a friend that was almost in tears after buying it. Of course the guy doesn't see the appeal of HD.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
I don't quite understand how you can say that's not a full res shot of HD and then say it's legitimate shot of DVD when they are the same size. Nothing will ever look that bad on a normal DVD unless you go out of your way to make it so.
Click to expand...
The actual resolution of HD-DVD is 1920x1080. What is the resolution of that shot? 1600x681!

When viewing an HD-DVD movie on a 1080p television, the movie will display its full 1920x1080 image. When viewing a DVD on a 1080p television, it's 720x480 image will be upscaled to 1920x1080. In this case, the 720x480 DVD image was upscaled to 1600x681 while the 1920x1080 HD-DVD image was downscaled to that resolution. If there were such a thing as a 1600x681 TV, this is how the two sources would appear when displayed upon it. In reality, a 1080p TV is HIGHER than this, so DVD would suffer even more.

The pixel resolution of DVD is very low and the image data simply isn't there. When scaled to a higher resolution, this is what you get and is exactly what you'll see on an HDTV.

If may look sharper on an SDTV, but all of the additional detail you gain from a high def image is lost. Again, do you think that "jag" sign would be visible on an SDTV? Of course not. The data is not present in the image.

If you watch a 720x480 image on a very small screen, it can actually look great. I mean, PSP is 480x272 resolution...right? It's screen was MADE for that pixel resolution. A 720x480 screen (which doesn't really exist) would display DVD beautifully. That wouldn't mean extra detail would be present, but it would seem sharp. The higher resolution the image, the more detail you'll be able to see.
 
Right, but I don't quite see why it's assumed it would be scaled to a higher image. Are you telling me when I set my 720p set to 480 it's just lying to me and secretly upscaling it anyway?
 
You are blind. Also at 40-46" 720p is all you need to see a startling difference. I'm running a 46" DLP and the difference between upscaled DVD and Blu-Ray still makes me go "wow" when I get a new movie.
 
fistfulofmetal said:
[HOT FUZZ PICS]
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I just watched Hot Fuzz on HD DVD last night, man that is one hell of a good transfer. HD DVDs at 1080p on my 40" Samsung are beyond incredible, the difference is huge.
 
AstroLad said:
In my experience, if you've got a good upscaling player (e.g., PS3)--this is not the case at all. Wii and SDTV of course can be different stories.
Click to expand...

So what is the purpose to make people restart their whole collection of movies? Why not just get upscaled dvd players?
 
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