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[_Angelus_]

I'm on the verge of buying this set,the price is pretty good,but I'm not really sure if it does 720P. On SamSung's site their specs on this model(TX-P2670WH) does a native resolution of 480i/1080i,but nowhere does it mention 720.

At the same time elswhere within the same spec sheet I see this...


*Dual HD Supports 720p and 1080i HD Signals*

So my question is,is a true 720P output offered here?

Or does this mean it accepts those signals *Dual HD Supports 720p and 1080i HD Signals*.....but then scales them over to a 480i or 1080i setting instead as outputs?

I really hope not because I've been looking for an affordable set that does 480i,480P,720Pand 1080i outputs.


I really would appreciate an answer from you pros on this question because I'm about to buy this tv and would hate for it not to suppoprt a 720P output.

Heres the whole spec sheet btw.


http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=TXP2670WHX%2fXAA

DynaFlat HDTV
TX-P2670WH
26" Wide Premier Series DynaFlat™ HDTV With Built-In Tuner





Features

TV/VIDEO:

* Built-in HD/Digital Tuner (ATSC/NTSC) Tunes & processes 720p, 1080i, 480p, and 480i signals
* Premiere Series Sleek Simple Design With Front Panel Control Buttons
* 16:9 Wide Screen Aspect Ratio
* Native Resolution 1080i/480p
* Dual HD Supports 720p and 1080i HD Signals
* DynaFlat™ HD Anti-Distortion, Anti-Glare Flat Picture Tube
* Finer Pixel Dot Pitch Flat CRT Improves Picture Resolution and Brightness
* Pro Picture 3-Stage Video Correction
- Total DSP (Digital Signal Processing) Analog to Digital Signal Enhanced
- Pro Chip Plus Converts all Analog Signals to Flicker-Free Progressive Scan
- 8 Bit 20 MHz 3D Y/C Comb Filter
* Velocity Scan Modulation Improves Edge Detail
* 3:2 Pull Down Film to Video Frame Rate Correction
* Check HDTV Reception with a Built-in Digital Signal Strength Meter
* Convenient Front Panel Control Key Buttons for Accessing Menu Settings Without the Remote
* Universal Remote Control
* Easy Navigation with Translucent On-Screen Display
* Screen Filling Modes & Vertical Compression for Anamorphic DVDs
* Digital Program Guide (where available)

AUDIO FEATURES

* 20-Watt Side Speaker Audio System with Sound Presets & Adjustable EQ

 

[Deleted member 284]

uh...

* Built-in HD/Digital Tuner (ATSC/NTSC) Tunes & processes 720p, 1080i, 480p, and 480i signals

I have the 30 inch version and all consoles hooked up to it. Awesome TV

 

[_Angelus_]

Really?

Isn't a native resolution the true output that the tv can show?

Its just that when I read this part -*Dual HD Supports 720p and 1080i HD Signals*
I'm worried that this means it read those signals from say a satelite receiver, but not necesarily output them at those resolutions is all

Just to put my mind at ease,youre sure this outputs to 720P? Hey I'm sorry if I'm a noob at this,I just need to have it verified is all,sorry about doubting you. I just want to be 110% sure is all.

 

[Deleted member 284]

Really?

Isn't a native resolution the true output that the tv can show?

Its just that when I read this part -*Dual HD Supports 720p and 1080i HD Signals*
I'm worried that this means it read those signals from say a satelite receiver, but not necesarily output them at those resolutions is all

Just to put my mind at ease,youre sure this outputs to 720P? Hey I'm sorry if I'm a noob at this,I just need to have it verified is all,sorry about doubting you. I just want to be 110% sure is all.

No need to apologize and I am far from a guru on this stuff. (notice my edit at the bottom of my post)

I could not answer you in regards to the picture being true 720p. Klee or one of the uber AV posters would give you a much better answer.

But I do love the TV and think it was an excellent Birthday gift from my wife

 

[_Angelus_]

Ok,thanks for the info and opinion of the set. I really am looking forward to buying it and hearing that you have a similiar model and that you're quite happy with it makes my want to purchase it even greater now. But, for me I want to be sure it does a 720P output. Please people-step up with your opinions,is this tv a true 720P?

 

[Sjoerd]

* Native Resolution 1080i/480p

It's native(true) resolution is 1080i/480p. It would have to do some scaling to display 720P.

 

[_Angelus_]

So in other words if its going to scale it'll be either 480p or 1080i,720P is left out?

Because I'm still not clear on this part...*Dual HD Supports 720p and 1080i HD Signals*

It sounds like it would receive programming from 720P-1080i, but it doesn't mean it would display them in those though,right?

 

[B'z-chan]

This is whats been holding me back from getting HDTV. When it can show 720p without scalling i'll be happy. It makes all the differnece. But by that time 1080p will be a standard probably.

 

[sscrew]

The native resolution is the maximum resolution it can display in. Or in the case of an LCD TV/Monitor, its the optimal resolution. A 1080i set displaying a 720p image should look better than a 720p set displaying a 1080i image. Its capable of drawing more lines, or has more pixels. In lower resolutions it just goes unused, it probably wont look any different in 99% of cases.
Its better to get a TV with a higher native resolution than a lower one. So dont worry, it looks like an awesome purchase.... it will accept a 720p signal and thats all you need

 

[Hooker]

Motherfucker, no fair!!!



30" HDTV 1080i 16:9 pulldown for only $799 :S

They don't even fucking sell HDTV's here in Europe!!

 

[Rhindle]

If it's a CRT set I honestly wouldn't worry about it, it will look fine.

 

[_Angelus_]

The native resolution is the maximum resolution it can display in. Or in the case of an LCD TV/Monitor, its the optimal resolution. A 1080i set displaying a 720p image should look better than a 720p set displaying a 1080i image. Its capable of drawing more lines, or has more pixels. In lower resolutions it just goes unused, it probably wont look any different in 99% of cases.
Its better to get a TV with a higher native resolution than a lower one. So dont worry, it looks like an awesome purchase.... it will accept a 720p signal and thats all you need

Yeah I understand what youre saying. But....if the native resolution is a 1080i max,then what happens if I have a game that does 720P? Does this mean that it will simply won't play it at 720P,and instead just jump to a 1080i output?

Because from what I've read about both 720P and 1080i-720P provides a better refresh rate and a damn nice picture,while 1080i does an even better picture,but refresh rates are sacrificed because of this.

In short,I would rather have the option of playing my next gen. PS3/360/Revolution games at an optional 720P or 1080i. The tv I've shown you guys looks like it won't do this,as it sounds like it skips 720P,because afterall it says that its native resolution is 480P/1080i,which sounds like 720P is skipped

 

[Hooker]

I'd say go to a store and take a look at this TV, and another which supposedly does do 720p natively, and come back here and tell us about it

 

[_Angelus_]

The problem is I haven't seen any HDTVs selling between 600-800 dollars that do a 720P and a 1080i,not in my local Best Buy or Circuit City anyway. Theyre all the same 480i/1080. Ofcourse I'm sure the much more expensive tvs do a 720P,but I'm not looking to pay that much. I had always assumed they(the sets that sell for around 600-800 dollars) did a 720P,but you find out the truth the minute you research all this,and its sort of deceptive on their part. A HDTV tv that accepts a 720P signall from a cable or satelite box doesn't mean it does a 720P output. Damnit. I think I'm going to be stuck searching for one that does. But I don't want to go beyond 800 dollars though. I think I'm out of luck.

 

[mr.beers]

Motherfucker, no fair!!!



30" HDTV 1080i 16:9 pulldown for only $799 :S

They don't even fucking sell HDTV's here in Europe!!

i got my 30" 1080i 16:9 for $650

 

[golem]

In short,I would rather have the option of playing my next gen. PS3/360/Revolution games at an optional 720P or 1080i. The tv I've shown you guys looks like it won't do this,as it sounds like it skips 720P,because afterall it says that its native resolution is 480P/1080i,which sounds like 720P is skipped

* Dual HD Supports 720p and 1080i HD Signals

makes it sound like it will support 720p. if u got time haul an xbox to the store with the HD kit and MVP Baseball and see if 720p works.

also its more than likely the xbox360 will be able to internally scale video to your output (720p/1080i/etc)

 

[B'z-chan]

Report back if you have enough time, as i would be interested in knowing the results.

 

[_Angelus_]

haha-yeah I think I may have to walk in with an Xbox and with a game that does 720P. Well I knew Sonic Heroes(720P) would eventually be good for something,heh.

The guys at the stores around here have all told me that their tvs do 720P,but I'm thinking that theyre just reading off a spec sheet because some of these guys look like they can't even tie their shoes properly:b

I'll let you guys know whats up when I find out.

 

[Yusaku]

Most CRTs don't support 720p at all, unless it has a built in tuner. And then it's just going to be converting it to 1080i. That TV has a tuner, so relax.

More importantly, don't waste your money on a HDTV that's smaller than 30".

Motherfucker, no fair!!!

30" HDTV 1080i 16:9 pulldown for only $799 :S

They don't even fucking sell HDTV's here in Europe!!

My 30" Sanyo HDTV (with tuner) was $550. Thanks Wal-mart!

 

[_Angelus_]

http://www.fotoconnection.com/viewitem.php?IndexID=10540&RefTag=froogle

Samsung TX-P3075WH 30" 16:9 Wide DynaFlat HDTV Built-In HD Tuner
Built-In HD Tuner/ 16:9 Wide Screen Aspect Ratio/ Native Resolution 1080i/480p/ 720p And 1080i HD Signals/ DynaFlat HD Anti-Distortion, Anti-Glare Flat Picture Tube
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ok they've included a space directly after Native Resolution 1080i/480p/
If 720p were included then it would have had a / rather than a space.
The space means that theyre no longer speaking about Native Resolution
and instead now refering to HD Signals. See this is how its been totally written:

Native Resolution 1080i/480p/ 720p And 1080i HD Signals.

See theres that nasty space again,right after 480P/

If you follow the link on the page you then can read this:

*Built-in HD/Digital Tuner (ATSC/QAM/NTSC)
Tunes & processes 720p, 1080i, 480p, and 480i signals*

*Native Resolution 1080i/480p*

*Dual HD Supports 720p and 1080i HD Signals*

This pretty much tells and confirms my
suspition...Native Resolution(Max output) doesn't include
720P.

Damn........

 

[B'z-chan]

FUCK, what is HDTV being broadcast anyways? Just wondering, cause of Over the Air HDTV signals they are different right? Like Fox uses 720 and Abc uses 1080 i'm confused. But i think i'll just go get the philips i've been looking at. HDTV looks so damn good.

But the gods wont let me have 1080p for cheap (love T2)

 

[_Angelus_]

Ok one final question and I'll leave you guys alone :b

Do tvs that have a native resolution of 480P/1080i instantly upscale all 720P games to 1080i?

I'd hate to see something like a game made in 720P,be dropped to 480P. Or am I just paranoid?

 

[seanoff]

it may just take the 720p signal and display it. Check AVS forum for the model. If they don't know, no one does.

It more than likely takes the signal and maxes it to whatever the max resolution of the TV is.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=448937&highlight=TXP2670WH



B'Z hdtv is mostly 1080i except for fox and one other. i forget which one.

If u can get to them the Sony CRT XBRs are awesome hdtvs.

 

[_Angelus_]

Any other HDTV experts have an opinion?

 

[Yusaku]

OH MY GOD THERE'S A SPACE BEFORE 720p!! WHAT DOES THAT MEAN! I'M SCARED!!! HOLD ME!!!

Dude, you need to freaking chill. That TV upscales everything to 1080i. End of thread. NO CRT TV CAN DO TRUE 720p! The TV isn't going to display 720p as 480p, because it's probably displaying 480p in 1080i as well.

This is mostly pointless anyways, because next next gen consoles will be able to display games in either resolution, regardless of what the game is rendering in.

You really need to be focusing on other things when it comes to buying an HDTV.

 

[Ryck]

Hmmmmmm I will say this I personally can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080i , I've heard people say they can but I think the true test would be to play a 720p game on the two and see if you can tell....

 

[Yusaku]

Have you actually seen true 720p?

FUCK, what is HDTV being broadcast anyways? Just wondering, cause of Over the Air HDTV signals they are different right? Like Fox uses 720 and Abc uses 1080 i'm confused. But i think i'll just go get the philips i've been looking at. HDTV looks so damn good.

But the gods wont let me have 1080p for cheap (love T2)

Everyone uses 1080i except for Fox, ABC, and ESPN.

 

[Shogmaster]

720p native sets (1280x720) > 1080i native sets (1920x1080) IMO, because often, 1080i native sets are just mere 540p max sets (960x540).

Also, I'm going to avoid 1080p sets on purpose because 1920x1080 broadcast and BR/HD DVD stuff down-resed to 1280x720 will still look great, while 1280x720 games blown up to 1920x1080 will look hedious.

 

[ToD_]

I also got an HDTV for cheap. It only does 480p and 1080i, but I'm happy with it. Now the problem is this, it doesn't accept 720p signals at all (I know a lot of tv's work that way). A lot of the Xbox360 games will work at 720p. So.. does anyone know if the Xbox360 will scale to 1080i? Because it would just suck to play games at 480p in the "HD era" when I have an HDTV.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Your set, like a vast majority of them out there, will upscan a 720p signal to 1080i on its own. However, it seems more than likely that, at least, the X360 will do so internally...if we're going by the 'leaked' documents.

 

[borghe]

the difference between 720p and 1080i is NOTHING! seriously.

those who say 720p is better are just wrong. 1080i offers a higher actual resolution per refresh and a higher perceived resolution per full frame. at the same time interlaced artifacts are damn near impossible to distinguish at that resolution.

those who say 1080i is better, while technically correct, more often than not sit too far from their TV screens to really be able to fully resolve either resolution.

shogmaster, you couldn't be more wrong about 1080i sets. technically 1080i sets are 1920x540 actual resolution (interlacing only affects the horizontal scanlines, not the vertical columns). The reason they are still 1920 pixels wide despite having only 540 scanlines is because a CRT scan line resolution is determined by the source, and seen as though HDTV is a 1920 pixel wide source, the TV is still 1920 pixels wide, even though actual resolution is only 540 scanlines tall.

anyway, it doesn't matter. all TVs have to sideconvert as there is no TV capable of displaying both 720p and 1080i natively. So either you will be sideconverting 1080i to 720p or 720p to 1080i. Either way it will look gorgeous.

I also got an HDTV for cheap. It only does 480p and 1080i, but I'm happy with it. Now the problem is this, it doesn't accept 720p signals at all (I know a lot of tv's work that way). A lot of the Xbox360 games will work at 720p. So.. does anyone know if the Xbox360 will scale to 1080i? Because it would just suck to play games at 480p in the "HD era" when I have an HDTV.

supposedly, all next-gen systems will output both 720p and 1080i.

 

[quin]

here is my little story. I have an almost 5 year old hdtv now and I can tell by looking at newer sets mine is lagging but when I watch fox(720p and mainly live events) the quality is better than my other HD channels which are all 1080i (I can't get ABC but thats a stupid denver problem so I have never seen that in HD as of yet) My TV ONLY supports 1080i and I require an external scaler of some sorts to let me watch 720p programming. Almost any new set has an internal scaler to compensate for this, but my point is I bet 99% of people couldn't tell the difference between 720p and 1080i when either are being scaled to the other format.

And at least with my set the only difference i see with 720p is there is almost no motion artifacting in fast moving scenes when there is the occasional pixeling with 1080i.

 

[borghe]

here is my little story. I have an almost 5 year old hdtv now and I can tell by looking at newer sets mine is lagging but when I watch fox(720p and mainly live events) the quality is better than my other HD channels which are all 1080i (I can't get ABC but thats a stupid denver problem so I have never seen that in HD as of yet) My TV ONLY supports 1080i and I require an external scaler of some sorts to let me watch 720p programming. Almost any new set has an internal scaler to compensate for this, but my point is I bet 99% of people couldn't tell the difference between 720p and 1080i when either are being scaled to the other format.

this is an entirely meaningless comparison. you can't compare station to station to determine which format is better. every station uses different equipment, usually recompresses the signal to different bitrates, some multicast, and if they recompress (which almost all do except for fox now, but that is a different story) they all use different encoders. there is no way to say which format is better, which is where pretty much all experts agree that each format is pretty much comparable to the other. good 720p will always look better than bad 1080i, and vice versa, and no user will be able to tell the difference between good and bad examples of both.

And at least with my set the only difference i see with 720p is there is almost no motion artifacting in fast moving scenes when there is the occasional pixeling with 1080i.

pixelization is not inherent of 1080i and motion artifacting also is not in and of itself related the interlacing process. stuff like moire patterns, aliasing, colo shifting, etc. is interlacing artifacts, and 1080i as a technology is too high a resolution for any of that stuff to really be noticeable. Now of course AFTER the station gets a hold of the 45Mbps wideband signal and recompresses it is another story.

 

[Shogmaster]

shogmaster, you couldn't be more wrong about 1080i sets. technically 1080i sets are 1920x540 actual resolution (interlacing only affects the horizontal scanlines, not the vertical columns). The reason they are still 1920 pixels wide despite having only 540 scanlines is because a CRT scan line resolution is determined by the source, and seen as though HDTV is a 1920 pixel wide source, the TV is still 1920 pixels wide, even though actual resolution is only 540 scanlines tall.

There's no freakin way any of those 26/30/34" CRTs sold for $800~$1500 that advertise 1080i can do 1920 horizontal res in any shape or form. Infact, I search long and hard for a CRT set that even could do true 1280 horizontal res and only found one! (thanks to klee)

Most 1080i CRT sets are only capable of 800 pixels of horizontal res (Samsungs and Philips widescreen 1080i CRTs) and some can do 853ish (Sonys IIRC). Only the high end 19"+ computer CRT monitors can do 1920 and higher horizontal res, and it's rediculous to think that those cheapy 26/30/34" CRT TVs can do it at those huge sizes.

 

[quin]

this is an entirely meaningless comparison. you can't compare station to station to determine which format is better. every station uses different equipment, usually recompresses the signal to different bitrates, some multicast, and if they recompress (which almost all do except for fox now, but that is a different story) they all use different encoders. there is no way to say which format is better, which is where pretty much all experts agree that each format is pretty much comparable to the other. good 720p will always look better than bad 1080i, and vice versa, and no user will be able to tell the difference between good and bad examples of both.


pixelization is not inherent of 1080i and motion artifacting also is not in and of itself related the interlacing process. stuff like moire patterns, aliasing, colo shifting, etc. is interlacing artifacts, and 1080i as a technology is too high a resolution for any of that stuff to really be noticeable. Now of course AFTER the station gets a hold of the 45Mbps wideband signal and recompresses it is another story.

My comparison was that 720p didn't look like shit on my TV. I know you can't compare station to station but you have to compare station to station when they use different formats, there is no other way to do it. and I thought 18Mbs was the max each station has to broadcast and if the multi-cast they take off from that

 

[borghe]

There's no freakin way any of those 26/30/34" CRTs sold for $800~$1500 that advertise 1080i can do 1920 horizontal res in any shape or form. Infact, I search long and hard for a CRT set that even could do true 1280 horizontal res and only found one! (thanks to klee)

Most 1080i CRT sets are only capable of 800 pixels of horizontal res (Samsungs and Philips widescreen 1080i CRTs) and some can do 853ish (Sonys IIRC). Only the high end 19"+ computer CRT monitors can do 1920 and higher horizontal res, and it's rediculous to think that those cheapy 26/30/34" CRT TVs can do it at those huge sizes.

ummm.. what? you do realize that 7" CRTs.. 7" CRTS!! have already hit 1920 on a somewhat regular basis, right? 30"/34" hitting 1920 is nothing. not to mention if they really were only hitting 800 pixels of horizontal res at that size, that would be some SERIOUS dot pitch and would NOT look like high def.

My comparison was that 720p didn't look like shit on my TV. I know you can't compare station to station but you have to compare station to station when they use different formats, there is no other way to do it. and I thought 18Mbs was what digital signals where broadcast at?

no station allocates 18Mbps to video. My highest local stations are around 17Mbps video, fox was around 16Mbps, and my local CBS which multicasts is around 14Mbps.. they all (except for fox) get a 45Mbps wideband feed from the network feed, then add their station bugs to the wideband feed and recompress to the local feed. Fox sends out a 16Mbps feed which then runs to Fox splitters, has the station logo inserted into the compressed stream, and then sent out the antenna. but compression and equipment vary from station to station. I understand that is all you have to compare with, but just understand then that it is ONLY your 720p station that looks better than your other stations. It is not indicative of the technology or even network as a whole. All stations recompress the wideband signal, and it is entirely dependent on what equipment they are doing this with.

 

[Mihail]

Where can I get these good deals you guys keep mentioning?

 

[Shogmaster]

ummm.. what? you do realize that 7" CRTs.. 7" CRTS!! have already hit 1920 on a somewhat regular basis, right?

smaller the CRT, easier to use the available bandwidth to draw higher reses IIRC. And you are talking about 17" CRTs, right?

30"/34" hitting 1920 is nothing.

Please gimme a link to those that do. Not trying to say PROVE IT! but to say help me find some so I can buy them!!!

 

[_Angelus_]

Dude, you need to freaking chill. That TV upscales everything to 1080i. End of thread. NO CRT TV CAN DO TRUE 720p! The TV isn't going to display 720p as 480p, because it's probably displaying 480p in 1080i as well.

This is mostly pointless anyways, because next next gen consoles will be able to display games in either resolution, regardless of what the game is rendering in.

You really need to be focusing on other things when it comes to buying an HDTV.

Ok wtf? Somebody is playing with my account because I didn't type the reply that Yusaku quoted. Quite funny though,heh.

 

[quin]

...I understand that is all you have to compare with, but just understand then that it is ONLY your 720p station that looks better than your other stations. It is not indicative of the technology or even network as a whole. All stations recompress the wideband signal, and it is entirely dependent on what equipment they are doing this with.

I understand this. I am not saying 720p is better. I'm saying that on my set 720p(scaled) looks just as good or better as 1080i(native). People are severly over reacting about the scaling process when they don't need to be. that is all I'm trying to point out

I also know it depends on the station, the equipment, and everything in between. That is where I think all this confusion lies in the whole HDTV area. People attack the format rather than every step it took to get to their tv. I do think it will be different with consoles though because you have the same equipment and I would hope quality wise should be very consistant

 

[borghe]

holy shit.. I was actually finally wrong amongst all of the HDTV stuff from the past day or two.... wow!!

for the record, all of the new Sony SFP 16:9 (XS955?) models do 1407x1080i.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1573981,00.asp

unfortunately I don't care enough about directview to look for more, but you win this round

 

[ToD_]

I can easily tell on my 30" crt that it doesn't resolve the 1920 pixels wide. But the vertical resolution does seem higher than 540p, though. There is an obvious flicker present at thin horizontal lines, indicating interlacing (so no 540p), while things in 480p don't flicker. Also there seem to be small black lines inbetween all horizontal lines in 480p (only visible up close), while in 1080i (interlaced) it's all filled up.


Hopefully you can visualize this a bit.

 

[Yusaku]

Almost any new set has an internal scaler to compensate for this

Not true. I'd say 90% of all CRT HDTVs without a tuner will not support 720p.

I understand this. I am not saying 720p is better. I'm saying that on my set 720p(scaled) looks just as good or better as 1080i(native). People are severly over reacting about the scaling process when they don't need to be. that is all I'm trying to point out

Who is overreacting? No one in this thread has said "720p looks bad on a 1080i set." Soul Calibur 2 looks fan fucking tastic on my TV, and I say bring on the 720p games.

 

[borghe]

People attack the format rather than take into consideration that every station is doing things differently with different equipment

fixed and true. that is why the minds greater than mine say that there is virtually no difference between 720p and 1080i. You can make both look gorgeous, you can make both look horrible, and at the end of the day two signals at similar quality and we won't be able to tell the difference.

You are right.. It doesn't matter if your set displays 1080i or 720p natively. the only thing that matters is that it has a good sideconvertor for displaying a non-native signal. even if a set had one of the greatest displays in the world, if it couldn't convert from one format to the display format adequately I wouldn't even touch it.

 

[Shogmaster]

holy shit.. I was actually wrong on all of the HDTV stuff from the past day or two.... wow!!

for the record, all of the new Sony SFP 16:9 (XS955?) models do 1407x1080i.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1573981,00.asp

unfortunately I don't care enough about directview to look for more, but you win this round

See? I told you!

And as for the new Sonys, yeah, Klee told me about those. Hopefully Sony won't rape me with rediculous price on them or else I'm just gonna buy a Sammy 720p DLP rear projector set and give up the superior greys of CRTs.

 

[borghe]

I can easily tell on my 30" crt that it doesn't resolve the 1920 pixels wide. But the vertical resolution does seem higher than 540p, though. There is an obvious flicker present at thin horizontal lines, indicating interlacing (so no 540p), while things in 480p don't flicker. Also there seem to be small black lines inbetween all horizontal lines in 480p (only visible up close), while in 1080i (interlaced) it's all filled up.


Hopefully you can visualize this a bit.

if you see flicker on 1080i I would strongly question the quality of your set. out of my 32" in the bedroom and my buddy's 36" Panny (16:9.. weird), and my other buddys 34" set from dish network (can't think of who it is OEM'ed by), I have NEVER seen flicker from a 1080i directview set. and I can count the number of times I have seen moire patterns or fencing on like two hands out of hours of viewing, and have never seen line aliasing or color aliasing on any HD program.

 

[quin]

Who is overreacting? No one in this thread has said "720p looks bad on a 1080i set." Soul Calibur 2 looks fan fucking tastic on my TV, and I say bring on the 720p games.

I'm not saying anyone said it looks bad I'm saying they shouldn't worry about as much as they do

 

[ToD_]

if you see flicker on 1080i I would strongly question the quality of your set. out of my 32" in the bedroom and my buddy's 36" Panny (16:9.. weird), and my other buddys 34" set from dish network (can't think of who it is OEM'ed by), I have NEVER seen flicker from a 1080i directview set. and I can count the number of times I have seen moire patterns or fencing on like two hands out of hours of viewing, and have never seen line aliasing or color aliasing on any HD program.

Nah, it's only visible when viewed from about a couple of inches away from the screen. Flickering between even and odd horizontal lines is normal on all interlaced screens. Because every second it displays 30 even and 30 odd lines.

I have not seen this flickering present on anything but computer generated pictures. For example a genesis emulator on the xbox @1080i; preview pictures are really small, there is definitely minor flickering present in fine details.

There really is nothing wrong with this.

 

[borghe]

Nah, it's only visible when viewed from about a couple of inches away from the screen.

lol.. umm. why do you sit only a couple of inches away from a 30" screen?

Flickering between even and odd horizontal lines is normal on all interlaced screens. Because every second it displays 30 even and 30 odd lines.

yes, I am VERY familiar with how interlacing works. I take it you haven't been keeping up with the other HDTV thread today I was just pointing out that the flicker of interlacing is pretty much undetectable on any 1080i HDTV set at a normal viewing distance (re: more than a couple of inches away from the set )

I have not seen this flickering present on anything but computer generated pictures. For example a genesis emulator on the xbox @1080i; preview pictures are really small, there is definitely minor flickering present in fine details.

the genesis emulator is a whole other ball of wax. essentially you are taking games that were meant to be displayed interlaced, completely altering the resolutions and more than likely applying some sort of filtering, rendering them for progressive output, and then sending them through an interlacer/scaler for final display. I don't think you are seeing true 1080i interlacing artifacts there so much as just artifacts in the entire process.

 

[ToD_]

lol.. umm. why do you sit only a couple of inches away from a 30" screen?


yes, I am VERY familiar with how interlacing works. I take it you haven't been keeping up with the other HDTV thread today I was just pointing out that the flicker of interlacing is pretty much undetectable on any 1080i HDTV set at a normal viewing distance (re: more than a couple of inches away from the set )


the genesis emulator is a whole other ball of wax. essentially you are taking games that were meant to be displayed interlaced, completely altering the resolutions and more than likely applying some sort of filtering, rendering them for progressive output, and then sending them through an interlacer/scaler for final display. I don't think you are seeing true 1080i interlacing artifacts there so much as just artifacts in the entire process.

In general I don't sit more than a couple of inches away from the screen :lol . The preview pictures I'm talking about are taken from an emulator. The size of the screenshots are about 320x240 pixels (of course progressively), so they are just ordinary pictures, no interlacing no nuffin' .

But yeah, from a normal viewing distance I don't see any flickering whatsoever. And with normal/video sources there is no flickering present.

I'm just glad we understand each other .