DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Holy shit....4 grand...that's wack!
If this is the whole story, 4k for this is terrible.
If this is the whole story, 4k for this is terrible.
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Hellena Taylor (Voice of Bayonetta) Describes How She was Offered only $4,000 USD to Voice Her Again in Bayonetta 3.
The Cartographer
Member
Yeah.
And like many other posters have already pointed out, the VA that is taking her place is quite possibly more expensive for Nintendo's and Platinum's pockets.
Something smells fishy.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Where?
FeralEcho
Member
Actually,She IS Bayonetta,when I think of Bayonetta I can clearly hear her voice and it's the same for Kevin Conroy as Batman and so many other iconic characters.The new voice actor was the first thing I noticed when i saw the first Bayonetta trailer and it IS jarring because the new voice actor is trying to be Bayonetta by trying to sound like Helena Taylor.
Lets also remember how well the community took the news about David Hayter's absence as Snake in MGSV when Kiefer Sutherland took in the role instead.
Some characters are just made to be played by that one voice actor that puts part of himself into the role so as far as I'm concerned Nintendo can get fucked for offering such a disrespectful sum for the voice actor of such an iconic character and it makes you wonder about the actual budget If that's how low they're willing to go.
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ShadowLag
Member
This strongly echoes the DOOM Eternal soundtrack battle between id / Bethesda and Mick Gordon, in which both parties claim the other to be at fault, and the relationship is severed: https://www.ign.com/articles/doom-eternals-soundtrack-controversy-explained. Basically, the game's 10/10 OST which is basically GOAT never got properly made, shitting all over the fans and the world that were waiting eagerly for it.
My thoughts on that situation are exactly the same here. Simply, all parties involved here have fucked up, gloriously - and no one wins, especially not the fans.
Platinum fucked up - they failed to realize that yes, a large portion of their fanbase, which isn't that big to begin with, see Hellena as Bayonetta herself. If not Hellena, we just get the "Mommy can we buy Bayonetta?" "No son/daughter, we already have Bayonetta at home" version of Bayonetta. Sure the game still exists, but why not have enough respect for your product and the fans that love it to make sure every good part of it continues on? Do what it takes to make it happen, including swallowing your pride in some squabble. The goodwill from the fans for doing so will far exceed any short term benefits.
Nintendo/Sega fucked up - their production and marketing people should've been paying attention, and should've been on top of this. Alarm bells should've been going off. Something along the lines of, "hey guys, some drama is going on between the main character of the game we're funding and its developer and/or us, we should probably step up and make the situation right, because if we don't, fans will be pissed all over social media about it and that won't be good for our image or the sales of the game. Oh, and it's not good for the product, either".
Hellena fucked up - She is Bayonetta. To the hardcore audience, especially. While it sucks that they may have screwed her over in the $$$ department, she should've taken the alleged offer anyway if she truley cared about being Bayonetta. Again - do it for the fans and the quality of the product, because the benefits from those will last far, far longer than whatever short term squabble victory she's trying to get here. Instead, she's gone on a Twitter crusade against the people who gave her the role of her life in the first place. Not smart.
So, just like with the DOOM Eternal soundtrack situation, hardcore fans of the product (myself included) can just suck it... because of the egos of all of the involved parties. Instead of guaranteed lightning in a bottle, we get wet cardboard.
My thoughts on that situation are exactly the same here. Simply, all parties involved here have fucked up, gloriously - and no one wins, especially not the fans.
Platinum fucked up - they failed to realize that yes, a large portion of their fanbase, which isn't that big to begin with, see Hellena as Bayonetta herself. If not Hellena, we just get the "Mommy can we buy Bayonetta?" "No son/daughter, we already have Bayonetta at home" version of Bayonetta. Sure the game still exists, but why not have enough respect for your product and the fans that love it to make sure every good part of it continues on? Do what it takes to make it happen, including swallowing your pride in some squabble. The goodwill from the fans for doing so will far exceed any short term benefits.
Nintendo/Sega fucked up - their production and marketing people should've been paying attention, and should've been on top of this. Alarm bells should've been going off. Something along the lines of, "hey guys, some drama is going on between the main character of the game we're funding and its developer and/or us, we should probably step up and make the situation right, because if we don't, fans will be pissed all over social media about it and that won't be good for our image or the sales of the game. Oh, and it's not good for the product, either".
Hellena fucked up - She is Bayonetta. To the hardcore audience, especially. While it sucks that they may have screwed her over in the $$$ department, she should've taken the alleged offer anyway if she truley cared about being Bayonetta. Again - do it for the fans and the quality of the product, because the benefits from those will last far, far longer than whatever short term squabble victory she's trying to get here. Instead, she's gone on a Twitter crusade against the people who gave her the role of her life in the first place. Not smart.
So, just like with the DOOM Eternal soundtrack situation, hardcore fans of the product (myself included) can just suck it... because of the egos of all of the involved parties. Instead of guaranteed lightning in a bottle, we get wet cardboard.
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AlteredForms
Banned
We need to look at things in the correct perspective. What's the rate for the average voice actor, how much dialogue is in the Bayonetta games and could somebody else do the role adequately? I'm a firm believer that you need to get things in double-digits to appease people on these things. Had they dropped 10k on her we wouldn't be having this conversation.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Isnt Nintendo funding this game? The buck stops with them.
$4,000 is ridiculously low. The GTA actor who played Nico was paid $100k in 2006.
$4,000 is ridiculously low. The GTA actor who played Nico was paid $100k in 2006.
Killer8
Gold Member
"her part in the Bayonetta franchise is relatively small."
She's literally the voice of the titular character...
I see a lot of people belittling her as "just the VO", and with comments like that it's fairly obvious they either didn't play the games, or at the very least recognize the popularity of her in the role amongst the fanbase. This is a situation not too far removed from David Hayter being axed as Solid Snake in MGSV, and a ton of people were upset about that at the time, too.
We don't know anything about her life circumstances. On the VO side, she hasn't done much of anything aside from Bayonetta in the last ten years. Who knows how much she takes home per year via alternative income sources. She might even have a regular day job for all we know. Hell, she might not even have that. No one knows how reliant she might have been on this project paying out more than a lousy 4K.
It's all significant, because she lives in London and Bongland currently has a cost of living crises. Of course she's going to mention poor people if she's also saying in another tweet that she might potentially find even herself on the streets. Sure, she could degrade herself and just take the pitiful amount of money, but that would probably only pay for her winter fuel bills:
For the grand value of $4000, or 66 copies of the game, Hellena might be able to stay warm this winter. She should be thrilled, really.
GAF is insulated from realities like these and just thinks "hurr durr all these soy latte drinking arty farty fagaloons just need to MAN UP XXDDD". Or maybe the forum is just too young that it thinks $4000 is like high roller money lmfao.
Hardensoul
Member
What about Spider-Man, Batman, James Bond, Superman, Joker…..Same actor/VA forever?
Madflavor
Member
Well I'll say this. She's been voice acting as Bayonetta for years across multiple entries and crossovers. While I can totally see the point of "doing it for the love the art", there is a bit of a line to be crossed here. Under the circumstances, $4,000 isn't just lowballing. It's Fuck You territory.
I don't agree with her call to fans to boycott the game. It would've been best for her to have just moved on.
FeralEcho
Member
I'm not saying there can't be different interpretations of the character but this is the third game in a trilogy,not a remake or a reimagining.It's like switching Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamil in the Batman Animated series mid-season.
TwiztidElf
Gold Member
Get up this morning to this controversy.
Someone got offered pay for a job and knocked it back.
Someone else took the job for some amount of money.
If no-one took the job for whatever they were paying, they would have had to pay more.
Good grief.
Someone got offered pay for a job and knocked it back.
Someone else took the job for some amount of money.
If no-one took the job for whatever they were paying, they would have had to pay more.
Good grief.
I could be wrong, but in that interview with Cihi, he mentions that both Baker and McGlynn were telling him that residuals doesn't exist and it was in a rudish manner, but it makes you wonder why SH3 couldn't have the original voice acting and why Troy didn't reprise his role in Tales of Vesperia Definitive Edition.
PumpkinPie
Banned
$4000 for a couple of days work 
even a couple of weeks work is good money.
even a couple of weeks work is good money.eastcoastkody
Member
how much Hale cost?
TheGecko
Banned
Exactly, Look how shes being on social media. I wouldn't pay the cunt to clean my toilet
TheDuskwalker
Member
Well if the average voice acting pay is $250 a hour (according to Sean Chiplock), that means at $4000 she would only be paid for 16 hours of work. So I wonder how many days and hours of voice recording was expected for this role?
The Cartographer
Member
Much more than Taylor, for sure.
Timberwolf25
Member
That pays for almost 2 months of rent in a lot of places.$4000 for a couple of days work
Based on her body of work, VA is definitely not her main source of income.
And just because she played the role in the past doesn't mean she is forever entitled to play it again. I've only ever heard her work in the OG Bayo and thought it was great. Still doesn't mean you are guaranteed future work or that you own the character. Bayo is an amalgam of many disciplines from the animators, artists, VA, etc
Arachnid
Member
Just read more into that. That kind of sucks. Konami didn't want to pay him to use his voice in the remaster as royalties. Sounds like those two were condescending about him wanting to get payed for his voice. God damn it Mary. I've simped for you since I was like 8.
Konami and Baker though? Trash as usual.
daclynk
Member
but Bayonetta is not as successful and people make it out to be
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
And that is yet another example of entitlement. I'm not going into the discussion if 4k is fair or not, but is unprofessional to break a NDA and bitch about being replaced because the studio isn't willing to pay her as well as she thinks her work worth. And guess what? There are another VA willing to do the job, it sucks that the VA was replaced, but this is low. And I'm not going to boycott the game, I've been waiting for so long, and I'm sorry to say I'm okay with a recast of Bayonetta as long as the quality is there.
papersleeves
Member
It's the low balling that's insulting, whether it's an object you're selling, or for the work that you're doing. As an IT professional, I refuse propositions for doing jobs that I judge are underpaid for the work done. On a multi-millions dollars franchise, I believe $4000 for lending your voice to the main protagonist is ridiculous.
daclynk
Member
but Bayo is nowhere a big IP like GTA right?
Kiya's Guard
Member
Hellena:"proper contracts, do you want to touch me?"
Proper contracts: #dodges on witch time#
Proper contracts: #dodges on witch time#
TheDuskwalker
Member
In the case of Nico, it was 100 thousand for 15 months of work, and he wanted more after he saw the game sales.
Bragr
Banned
This is nothing like David Hayter. Bayonetta is nowhere near Metal Gear Solid status. Metal Gear Solid is 50% story, it's a different scale."her part in the Bayonetta franchise is relatively small."
She's literally the voice of the titular character...
I see a lot of people belittling her as "just the VO", and with comments like that it's fairly obvious they either didn't play the games, or at the very least recognize the popularity of her in the role amongst the fanbase. This is a situation not too far removed from David Hayter being axed as Solid Snake in MGSV, and a ton of people were upset about that at the time, too.
We don't know anything about her life circumstances. On the VO side, she hasn't done much of anything aside from Bayonetta in the last ten years. Who knows how much she takes home per year via alternative income sources. She might even have a regular day job for all we know. Hell, she might not even have that. No one knows how reliant she might have been on this project paying out more than a lousy 4K.
It's all significant, because she lives in London and Bongland currently has a cost of living crises. Of course she's going to mention poor people if she's also saying in another tweet that she might potentially find even herself on the streets. Sure, she could degrade herself and just take the pitiful amount of money, but that would probably only pay for her winter fuel bills:
For the grand value of $4000, or 66 copies of the game, Hellena might be able to stay warm this winter. She should be thrilled, really.
GAF is insulated from realities like these and just thinks "hurr durr all these soy latte drinking arty farty fagaloons just need to MAN UP XXDDD". Or maybe the forum is just too young that it thinks $4000 is like high roller money lmfao.
I can't understand your logic at all with this other nonsense. Should PlatinumGames consider her life circumstances and alternative incomes? Should PlatinumGames give her 20k because she says in a tweet she might find herself on the street? or analyze the energy prices and base their salary on that? WHAT????
If that is a week or two of work, that is NOT pitiful money.
Keihart
Member
i mean, let's be honest.
Do i care more for Planitum games, games or for the voice of Bayonetta staying the same?
I care a lot more for Platinum games to stay in business making their very unique type of games than the voice the characters.
TwiztidElf
Gold Member
ShadowLag
Member
You're right.
I just think everyone involved failed to zoom out and see the bigger picture. Platinum/Ninty/Sega could've paid her more (fucking Nintendo alone has billions in cash), and/or Hellena could've kept her eye on her fans, risen to gigachad levels, taken the F. U. deal, and found additional employment to make up for it. No one made the right choice for the product or the fans here, which considering what first world problems we're talking about, should've been the goal IMO.
Arachnid
Member
So turns out Hale herself is under union and receives set wages. It's not that. That really just leaves two scenarios (both of which point towards Platinum wanting to replace her as voice actress themselves). Either they truly just didn't like he work as the character and wanted to go for a different delivery or she's difficult to work with. Nothing else really makes sense now.
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Captain Toad
Banned
You're worth what someone is willing to pay.
Spirit Icana
Member
Said controversy is being drummed up by a voice actress who's biggest and only major role has been this title character, which she has helped paved the image for, so both her ego and identity are probably invested as well, and not just the money she was being offered (and refused) for a niche game that has consistently managed to generate internet buzz, if but garnering only a few actual players. I honestly don't think this can have anything but a positive effect. The games have never sold well, but this publicity will have more eye balls looking at it to see if it's appealing to them. And since pay is a hot topic (always is in any industry), maybe the latest boon to a bored crowd waiting for the next controversy can help net some extras dollars for this talent pool who do go under-appreciated, though that says nothing for the hard work that took place the last 7 years to get this game shipped from the Credit names behind the curtains ironing out the bugs and getting ready for launch, but that's how the world works.Get up this morning to this controversy.
Someone got offered pay for a job and knocked it back.
Someone else took the job for some amount of money.
If no-one took the job for whatever they were paying, they would have had to pay more.
Good grief.
That said, I don't know how much luck this lady will have landing a gig like this again. Maybe Naughty Dog will get her on a role out of sympathy? I know Nintendo/Sega/Platinum won't be working with her again. That door is now forever closed. Jennifer Hale will be the new Bayonetta moving forward if the series somehow takes off from here (or she refuses to play it). There isn't enough interested parties for an effective boycott to ever take place, the games have been desperate to drum up any interest and find players the last decade, and most gamers are saving for the next God of War, Pokemon, hoping to find that PS5, and all that stuff, but gamers canceling their Bayo preorders and steering the money toward a good charity would be nice, if but a dream.
clem84
Gold Member
That's how I feel.
Nintendo (Platinum) made an insulting offer. What do you do with insulting offers? You turn them down and you move on. You continue perfecting your craft and building your career by pursuing other/better business opportunities.
I actually felt bad for her up until the moment she said "I'm asking you to boycott this game". WTF is wrong with her? That's like saying 'I'm not satisfied with your offer, therefore, I'm going to hurt you.'
Will this make other companies want to work with her now? Basically they'll think if we don't give her what she wants, she'll go on social media to seek revenge and get people to boycott our product. Yeah, pretty disgusting of her.
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Gambit2483
Member
Most Voice Actors (of her calibur and standing with the character) don't get screwed over like this at all! David Hayter was the closest and even then it took a LOT for him to not raise a stink out of respect for Kojima and knowing Kojima was getting screwed too. Most production teams try not to change long established voice actors of multimillion dollar brands, esp titular characters.
I never brought up her suggestion to boycott anything as that wasn't part of my point, just that she is rightfully and understandably upset and disappointed. Or does the concept of Voice actors also being real people with real emotions and lives go over your head?
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bender
What time is it?
NinjaBoiX
Member
Fuck off you entitled cunt!
This gig is was likely stood in front of a microphone, reading lines off a page for what, a few days max? I’d imagine Bayo only has less than 60 minutes of dialogue in this entire game if it was condensed down.
You’re literally just parroting dialogue (written by someone else who also needs to be paid) down a microphone for a couple of days.
I’d argue you were actually paid really quite well for your time and relative input tbh.
This gig is was likely stood in front of a microphone, reading lines off a page for what, a few days max? I’d imagine Bayo only has less than 60 minutes of dialogue in this entire game if it was condensed down.
You’re literally just parroting dialogue (written by someone else who also needs to be paid) down a microphone for a couple of days.
I’d argue you were actually paid really quite well for your time and relative input tbh.
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Always funny to see some people blaming the worker rather than the firm. Oh and a multimillion dollars company is trying to fuck its employees... pretend to be shock, guys.
The Cartographer
Member
I don't even understand what you're trying to say.
You're saying that being screwed over (we don't even know if that's really the case) is so upsetting for her that it somehow justifies her twitter tantrum?
No way that's right.
bender
What time is it?
Gambit2483
Member
Considering she has voiced the character for a decade and was screwed over and insulted in their offer to continue as the character, I understand her voicing her frustration on the situation. What don't YOU get about a person reacting in such a manner? I'm not justifying any calls for boycott or anything just that she is pissed, rightfully so.
Keihart
Member
Lol at Kamiya blocking so many people his twitter got locked for unusual activity.
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HoodWinked
Member
don't porn shoots pay similarly.
but anyways both sides are getting what they want, Plat/Nin doesn't want to pay that much and she doesn't want to be paid that little. the boycotts are fucking stupid considering she makes up such a small portion of the man hours to produce that game and now believes to be the authority is sheer egotism.
but anyways both sides are getting what they want, Plat/Nin doesn't want to pay that much and she doesn't want to be paid that little. the boycotts are fucking stupid considering she makes up such a small portion of the man hours to produce that game and now believes to be the authority is sheer egotism.
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Arachnid
Member
Nah, he has always blocked English users. I doubt he's blocking specifically because of this fiasco. It just looks like it because the only people who care about this change are those who play the game in English. Kind of funny for westerners to think a dude making a game in Japan gives two thoughts to an American VA that is in no way iconic to the role. Even Kojima ended up doing Hayter dirty.
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Holammer
Member
Interesting reaction from Julian Rignall, a famous UK game journalist. To put some perspective on the shoestring budget Platinum seems to operate on.
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