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Heroes of the Storm Technical Alpha Thread: [Artifacts Removed]
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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Did they stop sending out Alpha invites? I cry every day I'm not let in, this is the only MOBA I want to get into
There are usually 2k people on at a time. They are giving them out, SLOOOOOOOWLY. Things will pick up when the beta lands either by November/December or early 2015 at the latest.
The new battleground makes me a bit sad. It's about in the middle in terms of size and it's a 3-lane map. Two lane maps lead to more slobberknocker games, and large 3-lane maps make split pushing easier (the only thing about Blackheart's Bay I like). The night cycle lowering vision will also make split pushing even more dangerous on that map. On the plus side, the two map mechanics are both player controlled to some degree.
Also, give me a Hammer Master skin already. Honestly, her current white Gundam Hammer skin should be the Master skin. Probably.
I think there just was another wave of invites, a friend of mine got in.Did they stop sending out Alpha invites? I cry every day I'm not let in, this is the only MOBA I want to get into
KojiKnight
Member
I'm not sure why, I just can't bring myself to play this game right now. Been a few weeks, just haven't even felt the urge. Seen the game on my list every morning when I went to do my hearthstone dailies. Guess I burnt myself out maxing out murky.
Great follow up post. My thoughts exactly. I have no clue how you did it. Just the abuse from randoms for playing Murky period would be enough to get me to stop.
I'm about to take a week sabbatical myself for vacation. Got 40, and hopefully a patch will come at the end of the month and the fun can begin anew.
KojiKnight
Member
Because I was good at it. I had something like a 70% winrate with him. The thing is, he's a great 'single player' character that truly makes a difference in the game... and they kind of nerfed him to death. He was definitely too strong before, but now he's too weak. Not just his direct nerf, but also his indirect nerf (defending mercs don't miss anymore, so Murky can't survive long enough for his bombs to go off).I like playing support from time to time, but playing with random when you're support SUCKS... almost as much as NOT playing support since most randoms playing support are bad. But even if you play support perfectly, there are always ass hats that want to blame you for them being bad.
"Great heals noob" "I used my heal... you charged in by yourself when there were 4 of them." type deals.
Some changes coming up
I'm not sure how I feel..
On one end, the hero leveling system allows people to "really" learn the heroes, on the other, it forces people to play a certain way for awhile.
I'm really nervous about "artifacts" and what they mean since they are being pretty cryptic.
I'm not sure how I feel..
On one end, the hero leveling system allows people to "really" learn the heroes, on the other, it forces people to play a certain way for awhile.
I'm really nervous about "artifacts" and what they mean since they are being pretty cryptic.
My first thought was rune system lol style, which I would dislike.
I like the rest of the changes. Gold earning changes are great, master skins are sweet incentives. I'm assuming the first few levels won't take too long to get through with any hero, to unlock the talents which I'm assuming is what you were referring to. I like that better than people just being gimped accross the board for a while, and I definitely think it's better to encourage people to learn heroes rather than just broadly play different ones.
The intention is that talents take the place of items in other MOBA's. Keep in mind you have twice as many talent choices once your player level hits 8 or 10 or whatever. It's a bit silly.
Pyros_Eien
Member
Leveling change looks awful. You get a new hero and then you have to play several games without the full talents or the 2nd ulti(I assume not that long for that one), ugh. Why they feel they need to forcefully limit player choices, who knows. Surely if you have a bunch of heroes at max level you don't need to have your hand held on every new hero you pick.
Gold change looks good though, gaining gold other than daillies is great, it was one of the major issues before.
Gold change looks good though, gaining gold other than daillies is great, it was one of the major issues before.
I agree, I'll play it and see, but I feel like my feedback on that change is that I'd rather see everything available to the hero at the start, or at the very least after just a few games.
As this is an Alpha, maybe instead you should provide them feedback if you don't like the system...
That is sort of the point of this, and Blizzard has been very open about responding to feedback, that's the entire reason for the changes in comeback mechanics...
So in order to keep all my talents when the next patch hits, I have to be at least level 4 with a hero. That means I had to have at least played that hero for 41 games.
This also adds a second layer necessary to start playing competitively in the game. First you have to grind up until you get enough gold for whatever heroes you may need for your team, then you have to grind up each of those heroes individually.
And the max level is still 40, so do I get any retroactive gold rewards? In fact, the daily quest gold being reduced mean that I'm not even going to log in for daily quests anymore.
And if this game ever gets to a roster count above 40...
After the next patch I'm probably going get Hammer up to max level to parade around in her master skin, see how quickly it is to get a character from level 1 or 2 (I haven't played much Zagara and just recently picked up Tassadar) to level 4, then quit this game in disgust.
This also adds a second layer necessary to start playing competitively in the game. First you have to grind up until you get enough gold for whatever heroes you may need for your team, then you have to grind up each of those heroes individually.
And the max level is still 40, so do I get any retroactive gold rewards? In fact, the daily quest gold being reduced mean that I'm not even going to log in for daily quests anymore.
And if this game ever gets to a roster count above 40...
After the next patch I'm probably going get Hammer up to max level to parade around in her master skin, see how quickly it is to get a character from level 1 or 2 (I haven't played much Zagara and just recently picked up Tassadar) to level 4, then quit this game in disgust.
I love HOTS objectives, and jungling ideas but I hate that most players don't get how important they are.
I might be playing with lower level people dude to Alpha population. But it can be so frustrating with 3 players not going after objectives and getting face rolled that way.
I might be playing with lower level people dude to Alpha population. But it can be so frustrating with 3 players not going after objectives and getting face rolled that way.
Regarding the levelling: Yeah
I highly suspect the xp to level is NOT going to be remotely analagous to the games played we currently have. I suspect getting level 2 is going to only take like 1 win worth of XP for instance. I mean they want us to test this system.
Because they are quite literally trying to be the opposite of Dota 2. One of the biggest issues with dota for new players is the massive, overwhelming amount of information and options presented from the start. Blizzard isn't trying to make another dota, it's a game for a different audience,
Pyros_Eien
Member
There's a difference between presenting the massive options in a simpler way and facilitating new player experience with optional limitations, and straight out saying "everyone is a casual new player so everyone gets to do the tutorial on every hero".
And there's not even close to the same amount of options either. While talents do a good job of replacing items, there's only very few talents each tier(2 to 4 or so), it's not really that confusing vs having 60-80 items all accessible at once and you have to figure both the items you want and the order you want to get them. It's already extremely structured and built for simplicity with the talent system.
Just add an option for it. First time you pick a hero, you have a "Do you want simplified talents?" popup. If you misclick, you can untick the Simplified Talent box in the talent window. That's all you need really. Similar to how D3 had the god awful selective skill system where you could only pick certain skills for certain slots but if you went into the options you could turn that crap off and use any skill in any slot(besides mouse1). But definitely want a popup or something at some point since a lot of people never noticed the option and it was common to see people ask how to do it when linked to builds and stuff.
The other problem is having restricted talents make you noticeably weaker in almost every cases. At the very least, it removes a lot of your ability to adapt your build depending on the situation. Do you need to be able to initiate for your team on your tank? Well too bad, Sprint is only for people who are lvl 4 with the hero, lose the game some more until you can actually do your job properly. Enemy has a Murky zombie pushing one lane? Well you could get Calldown Mule to repair buildings, but only after you play a few more games because we wouldn't want you to be too confused with the massive 3-4talents choice. You might be a new player but that doesn't mean you're mentally challenged or that you can't play with a more experienced friend telling you what to do to optimize your play. You might be casual but it doesn't mean you don't want to use all the tools you have to win games.
I just don't see a single advantage to making it mandatory, other than it's faster to implement than making it optional.
6 talents every 3 levels isn't anywhere close to a "massive, overwhelming amount of information." Putting training wheels this harsh on a game this simple makes no sense.
I agree with what Pyros said. The talents were already level gated and limited. You knew what was coming up by looking at the hero info. It was already simplified they don't need to put arbitrary limits on skills. If people need to change their build because so and so happened in the match to have a chance at winning but have a low hero level they are blocked for arbitrary reasons.
I'd also like to add that closing off a hero you are attempting to learn every week is the opposite of easy to learn. There are other ways to avoid being DotA 2 (Which they have done a great job at already) while keeping the positive changes to DotA 2. On top of that making artifacts tilts dangerously close to P2W territory if I understand them correctly.
So now that my head has cooled off a bit, it's been mentioned that getting to level 4 on a hero could take 10-15 games. That's still too many games per hero just to get them up to a competitive level. I will admit I miscounted and it currently takes 31 games to get to rank 4, but then why punish current alpha players so severely instead of giving us free boosts?
I didn't even think about artifacts before I freaked out so we'll see if that's a definite nail in the coffin or not. But really, if it's anywhere near the worst case scenario
Also, gold gain is gutted in favor of hardcore players who will play at least 2 hours every single day. Great. This really is becoming a non-competitive f2p game. Hopefully some really fun co-op maps come out once the map editor is out. I'm probably only going to stick to a few heroes that I really, really like from now on with just the talent locking alone. Which means I might be done getting new heroes once a Starcraft Warrior is released (still hoping for Fenix).
I didn't even think about artifacts before I freaked out so we'll see if that's a definite nail in the coffin or not. But really, if it's anywhere near the worst case scenario
Also, gold gain is gutted in favor of hardcore players who will play at least 2 hours every single day. Great. This really is becoming a non-competitive f2p game. Hopefully some really fun co-op maps come out once the map editor is out. I'm probably only going to stick to a few heroes that I really, really like from now on with just the talent locking alone. Which means I might be done getting new heroes once a Starcraft Warrior is released (still hoping for Fenix).
You guys act like it's not alpha and shit hasn't changed drastically a hundred times already. Browder already responded saying he shared some of the concerns about these systems and it was in alpha for a reason and to respond with feedback, both now and once it's out to try out.
We literally don't even know anything about artifacts, other than that they're gold only. If it's like league runes/masteries I don't think it adds anything good to the game, but other than that I'm willing to at least TRY the system out before I act like I'm quitting a game that doesn't even exist yet, frankly. Gold change can only be seen as good, you have to barely play the game for it not to be better, or you have to never win.
10 games sounds like too many to me, but we'll see, and it'll get adjusted. I don't think there's anything wrong with the principle of 'here's your new hero, try it out a bit before you're overwhelmed with choices'. but it should be only a couple games tops imo.
As for why they're 'screwing' current testers over...it's a fucking test. They need you to actually test systems, I'm surprised we're getting our levels carried over in any form - hero or account level. Last time they implemented changes even half this big they wiped the entire thing out.
We literally don't even know anything about artifacts, other than that they're gold only. If it's like league runes/masteries I don't think it adds anything good to the game, but other than that I'm willing to at least TRY the system out before I act like I'm quitting a game that doesn't even exist yet, frankly. Gold change can only be seen as good, you have to barely play the game for it not to be better, or you have to never win.
10 games sounds like too many to me, but we'll see, and it'll get adjusted. I don't think there's anything wrong with the principle of 'here's your new hero, try it out a bit before you're overwhelmed with choices'. but it should be only a couple games tops imo.
As for why they're 'screwing' current testers over...it's a fucking test. They need you to actually test systems, I'm surprised we're getting our levels carried over in any form - hero or account level. Last time they implemented changes even half this big they wiped the entire thing out.
When a team makes changes like this it speaks poorly for the future of the game. Not that I have faith in this team and Browder to begin with but stuff like this certainly doesn't help. Locking off access to abilities and most of the talent trees is an admission that having the option to choose between them is not very relevant. HotS is simple enough to begin with from a hero progression without items or ability leveling paths, and having those routes locked off for even experienced players serves as nothing other than an insult. I don't want to be treated like I don't know how to play a game, particularly when it's already designed for the lowest common denominator.
I don't understand this comment at all. Why would testing different systems reflect badly on the design team? If anything it speaks to a really nice level of openness during testing. Putting shifts like this into the game when it's still many months away from release means the team wants feedback in the wild, which should be applauded.
As for name checking Browder, isn't he known for he tendency to make unique and hard to use unit abilities? That's why Blizz hired him right? Wouldn't that be exactly the kind of design mentality you'd want in a game like this?
Also beyond the fact that saying a game is designed for "the lowest common denominator" isn't very polite in a thread of people who are mostly enjoying the game, I'm not sure what you're comparing it to... LoL? Dota? It certainly is a simpler game than those two, but simplicity is a design choice.
If you don't like it now, tell them to change it. If you don't like the finished product, don't play it.
You're talking to the wrong people if you're bitching here though, and if you're bitching here and NOT posting on the HotS then you have nobody to blame but yourself. Everything about the game but the most basic facts of gameplay have changed plenty since I first tried it at Blizzcon and it'll keep changing. There are blue posts all over the place, even about this EXACT stance and saying they want your feedback, which should be patently obvious when you get into an alpha test, but here we are explaining that I suppose. Gaf is a great discussion board and all, but there's a difference between saying you don't like a change going in and people posting "GAME IS DEAD IM DONE WITH IT LOLOLOL" here when it's still completely within reason to get things changed that the community doesn't like.
It's not an issue of a willingness to "test" no systems, but for a game that already feels directionless it's fairly discouraging to just see road blocks being thrown down that disrupt the player experience in game.
The hero/ability designs in HotS is just lagging so far behind other games of this type. Kits lack basic cohesion and it's rare to feel like abilities play into one another, most heroes are extremely basic when it comes to execution. It doesn't really help when the lack of options for players turns these simplistic constructions into boiler plate playable characters with predictable routines.
I don't really see a problem with saying that Heroes of the Storm is a game for remedial lords management players. It is, and that's okay. But does what's being simplified really make HotS a more approachable experience? Again we run into an issue where the game is being dumbed down, but does restricting talent trees really make it easier for new players to get into the game? Blizzard is still poorly communicating where players need to be on a map at any given time, and in many ways Heroes of the Storm feels like it has a higher barrier to entry than games that are more complex within the genre.
It's not my job to fix Blizzard's game by filling their echo chamber with feedback. I know it's an alpha, but the core of HotS is too busted for this game to ever realistically mature into something worthwhile.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've been enjoying the game and imagine I will continue to do so.
Seeing as a LOT of people seem to find Dota 2 obtuse and imposing to begin playing (Even people who are great at the game now all remember trying to wrap their heads around the options when they first started playing), and League follows almost the exact same systems, I fail to see how it's suddenly a remedial game. Your posts aren't anything but pure bashing, dimb. I suppose that should be expected from a 'moba pro' like yourself? It's literally just a more eloquently written form of the 'LOL BABY MOBA' shit that has been spouted since the beginning. We get it, you don't like the game. There's literally nothing they would do that would make you like it, so why does it seem so important to go "I KNOW THEY CANT MAKE THE GAME RIGHT ANYWAY, but I also hate this decision in addition to that!" what purpose does that serve?
Interesting. Obviously a shaman, yeah. Rehgar is just a comic character though, so I wonder if they'll go that route?
Valeera became the Hearthstone Rogue, and I can't think of another Shaman that wears the classic Warcraft Three shaman gear. He's got the blade first thing...
There are two canon characters, that have appeared in game, that they could have used for a Siege Tank hero, and instead they created someone entirely new with Sgt. Hammer.
They could very well just create an new character for a shaman hero as well.
A shaman is cool...totems could be implemented in a very interesting way in Heroes. Could also see spirit wolves as an ultimate and ghost wolf as a mount form...though they didn't do the same for Malfurion.
I do want Anub'arak though. A lot.
I'm still away on vacation but the changes seem good for the most part, particularly since I level capped and only play 3 or 4 heroes anyway. Gold for games is great. Gold for wins is better. Experience and rewards added to cooperative was a no brainer as well.
I'm very curious about the next round of balance changes as well.
And I'm surprised at a game with no support. It happens, I'm sure, but they are so strong and so popular at the moment. There for a while I was frustrated with all of the 2 support 2 specialist teams.
I think HoTS skins are severely overpriced. For example, lets compare Death Knight Arthas with League of Legend skin Haunted Zyra.
DK Arthas:
-price: 7,5$
-removes the helmet, otherwise completely the same as original Arthas
Haunted Zyra
-price: 10$
-completely changes the theme of plant lady (think Poison Ivy) into a skeleton-spawning horror chick
-new model, lots of new animations (plant seeds become tombs, plants become giant skeleton arms, new death animation etc.), new spell effects, new splash art
Yes, the LoL skin is 2,5$ more expensive but you could also look at the USA Raynor (recolor and tiny wings for 10$), which is the same price and pales in comparison.
DK Arthas:
-price: 7,5$
-removes the helmet, otherwise completely the same as original Arthas
Haunted Zyra
-price: 10$
-completely changes the theme of plant lady (think Poison Ivy) into a skeleton-spawning horror chick
-new model, lots of new animations (plant seeds become tombs, plants become giant skeleton arms, new death animation etc.), new spell effects, new splash art
Yes, the LoL skin is 2,5$ more expensive but you could also look at the USA Raynor (recolor and tiny wings for 10$), which is the same price and pales in comparison.
shysaursoft
Member
Fixed.
The Lamonster
Member
They need to add the rest of the Diablo 3 heroes to this game, like the female wizard.
Some D2 heroes would be nice, too
Some D2 heroes would be nice, too
I don't really think this comparison is fair. You're cherry picking two of the skins that don't have much of a graphical change and then cherry picking a league example that changes more than most. There's a great deal of Heroes skins that have a rather significant graphical impact at the moment.
Everyone loves farming right? Just the game for you, LoL's mastery/rune system is going to be in the game
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/14833869/introducing-artifacts-7-21-2014
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/14833869/introducing-artifacts-7-21-2014
Not suprising, still disappointing and obviously a deal breaker.
I was barely tolerating gating heroes behind pay wall and now this !?
What a goddamn waste.
I know, I know, "it's only an Alpha" and "things can change", and if it were any other company than Blizzard I'd probably remain optimistic. But Blizzard isn't a small company and HotS isn't a Kickstarter game. There's no chance that Blizzard will listen to the community and dumpster this dogshit idea, wasting the hundreds of thousands of dollars they've put into all of the art and coding and implementation of the artifact system so far. The most we'll get is them changing the gold costs to be something more reasonable (5500 gold to max one artifact out are you kidding me?) and that still isn't acceptable.
R.I.P HotS. You were a cool solo-queue game but now you're dead.
I know, I know, "it's only an Alpha" and "things can change", and if it were any other company than Blizzard I'd probably remain optimistic. But Blizzard isn't a small company and HotS isn't a Kickstarter game. There's no chance that Blizzard will listen to the community and dumpster this dogshit idea, wasting the hundreds of thousands of dollars they've put into all of the art and coding and implementation of the artifact system so far. The most we'll get is them changing the gold costs to be something more reasonable (5500 gold to max one artifact out are you kidding me?) and that still isn't acceptable.
R.I.P HotS. You were a cool solo-queue game but now you're dead.
shysaursoft
Member
And I'm out. I stopped playing League because of exactly this kind of system.
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