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[tommib]

“I decided to leave because I felt that the direction the company was heading in was different from my beliefs as a developer…

I don't think of games as products, but rather as works of art.”

Hideki Kamiya On Why He Left PlatinumGames, His YouTube Channel, and His Next Game - IGN

In a wide-ranging interview with IGN, game developer legend Hideki Kamiya reveals why he left Bayonetta maker PlatinumGames and what's next.

www.ign.com

 

[Griffon]

It's hard to take it seriously when looking at the plot of the Bayonetta series.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I’d jump ship too. The direction they’ve been headed in is off a cliff.

 

[drotahorror]

Good for him standin up for what he believes in.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I don't think of games as products, but rather as works of art.

Based. These days if you really want to make unique and creative things, to push gameplay genres forward you have to go indie. Even Sony which we love for their singleplayers has gone quite downhill with God of War Ragnarok and Spider-Man 2 clearly being copy-pasted expansions rather than genuine sequels. It's because they were afraid to do new things, and risk things. AAA is all about safety. Even the writing has to be safe, which is why they hire these pandering buffoons to write for their games. Whens the last time Sony did something rather unique?

 

[Hudo]

I don't think anyone is surprised. It was kinda obvious why he left. And he's not wrong about where Platinum seem to be headed.

And this also most likely means that "Project G. G." is cancelled.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Let's remember this old Kamiya tweet:

 

[Mister Wolf]

He is probably washed up at this point. Will be another Itagaki.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I think Platinum has been a shit studio for the better part of their existence tbh. They were good with the first Bayonetta and Vanquish, and then with some external projects like NieR. But most of the times what they release is budget trash. I respect them for MG Rising since it was apparently being cooked up in mere months. But on a personal level I didn't like the game, it looked awful, level design was horrible and the gameplay wasn't that good too imo (terrible weapon system, no evade button etc).

I don't see why this studio is so revered. Okay, 2 of their first 4 games were good (I didn't like Mad World and Anarchy Reigns), then according to their fans they needed to get a shot at every IP out there. All their games I played, let it be Bayonetta, Vanquish, Transformers, MG Rising... even NieR.. they all use the same slow mo gimmick that got tiresome to me. And with Babylon and TMNT they created outright stinkers. And Bayonetta hasn't really become much improved from the first game onward.

Really, those guys were better off as Clover Studios with Capcoms backing. I know Capcom closed them, but Capcom itself has reinvented itself since and creates excellent games PG can only dream of.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

He is probably washed up at this point. Will be another Itagaki.

Nah, Kamiya has a excellent body of work that includes different genres.

Itagaki was only really known for Ninja Garden, while great, came after and borrowed from the original Devil May Cry (who was created by...).

 

[Mister Wolf]

Nah, Kamiya has a excellent body of work that includes different genres.

Itagaki was only really known for Ninja Garden, while great, came after and borrowed from the original Devil May Cry (who was created by...).

 

[SimTourist]

Platinum made their best games when they had to deal with really tight deadlines and slim budgets. Bayonetta, Vanquish, Transformers, Metal Gear Rising, Nier, all stripped down to the very basics of game making - a satisfying gameplay loop and interesting scenarios. They lost the plot when they took 8 years to make Bayonetta 3. When given time and money they fuck around rather than focusing on the core design.

 

[struggler_guts]

He is probably washed up at this point. Will be another Itagaki.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case for most 'famous' devs that leave to do their own thing. They might pump out a decent game or 2 but usually just fade away

 

[Mhmmm 2077]

RIP Project GG?

 

[Mister Wolf]

Unfortunately that seems to be the case for most 'famous' devs that leave to do their own thing. They might pump out a decent game or 2 but usually just fade away

Happens in a lot of different professions where you create things. Though I didn't like his last two games, Kojima is an outlier.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

They haven't made a good game since Nier Automata anyway, some will say Astral Chain but a lot of them contracted licensed games were trash too.

 

[near]

RIP Project GG?

RIP PlatinumGames.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

He is probably washed up at this point. Will be another Itagaki.

He's one of a relatively small number of figures in Japanese gaming that people still pay attention when his name's mentioned. I think there are a few plays he could make.

 

[consoul]

Let's remember this old Kamiya tweet:

Games may not be art, but that tweet sure was.

Based Kamiya can and will do whatever he wants.

 

[March Climber]

My gut feeling is that this was the game that was the last straw for him:

 

[Big Baller]

Dude is begging for mercy.

 

[Wildebeest]

I have no idea when this guy is being ironic, but it is clear that he probably worked very long hours for most of his life, and he can't be expected to keep up that energy working on things he had no passion for.

 

[Gojiira]

I think Platinum has been a shit studio for the better part of their existence tbh. They were good with the first Bayonetta and Vanquish, and then with some external projects like NieR. But most of the times what they release is budget trash. I respect them for MG Rising since it was apparently being cooked up in mere months. But on a personal level I didn't like the game, it looked awful, level design was horrible and the gameplay wasn't that good too imo (terrible weapon system, no evade button etc).

I don't see why this studio is so revered. Okay, 2 of their first 4 games were good (I didn't like Mad World and Anarchy Reigns), then according to their fans they needed to get a shot at every IP out there. All their games I played, let it be Bayonetta, Vanquish, Transformers, MG Rising... even NieR.. they all use the same slow mo gimmick that got tiresome to me. And with Babylon and TMNT they created outright stinkers. And Bayonetta hasn't really become much improved from the first game onward.

Really, those guys were better off as Clover Studios with Capcoms backing. I know Capcom closed them, but Capcom itself has reinvented itself since and creates excellent games PG can only dream of.

Totally agree, I dont think Platinum ever really iterated or evolved in their entire existence. Its also really hard to look past the fact that they specifically took licensed games then made absolutely zero effort with them…Its just that arrogance, like working contractually was beneath them.
Nier was probably the best game they contributed too but most of that was already there so.
Rising has a weird fanboy nostalgia these days, it did have some awesome bosses for sure but I agree with you, no on the fly weapon switching, having parry also be the attack button etc, gimmicky half assed ‘stealth’, its just poor. Even at the time it was dated.
Yeah overrated Dev.

 

[Big Baller]

Lets not forget they took Phil's bag of money and used it for other projects besides Scalebound.

 

[nowhat]

Lets not forget they took Phil's bag of money and used it for other projects besides Scalebound.

Source?

 

[RoboFu]

Platinum has never made a game I like.. never. I don’t understand the infatuation with them.

 

[Big Baller]

Source?

The skreetz

 

[nowhat]

The skreetz

Oh that changes everything, now I'm convinced.

 

[Hypereides]

Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in Platinum's future output if the direction will be significantly different from what they used to do.

Let's remember this old Kamiya tweet:

Absolute legend.

 

[Fbh]

Watch him end up making some F2P game for a Chinese company.

But seriously though I do hope he find the place to continue making games in his own way. Can't agree with the comments here about Platinum having never been a good studio.
Bayonetta 1,2 and 3, Vanquish, MGR, Wonderful 101, Nier Automata, Atral Chain are all games I greatly enjoyed.

Biggest problem they had is that their game just never sold too well. Like I wouldn't be surprised if Bayonetta 2 is one of the poorest selling 90+ metascore games of all time (90+ game with dozens of reviews, not some 90+ visual novel with 5 reviews)

It's hard to take it seriously when looking at the plot of the Bayonetta series.

In a way I actually do think Bayonetta is exactly what he is talking about though.
Just seems like a character some horny Japanese dudes would come up with because they thought she is fun and sexy. I can picture the meeting where someone was like "dude she, like, summons demons with her hair and the more powerful the attack the more naked she gets"

Once games turn into nothing but products the vision of the creators becomes irrelevant. Characters are designed based on what market research and focus testing has defined will be most appealing to the target audience.

 

[March Climber]

Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in Platinum's future output if the direction will be significantly different from what they used to do.


Absolute legend.

The best thing Platinum Games can do for funding is help as many action/adventure devs as possible with their combat, including western ones.

No games, PS5 gen and onwards, should feel like they have combat as non-responsive as a B-tier PS2 game. Yet there are still some that get it wrong.

 

[Hypereides]

The best thing Platinum Games can do for funding is help as many action/adventure devs as possible with their combat, including western ones.

No games, PS5 gen and onwards, should feel like they have combat as non-responsive as a B-tier PS2 game. Yet there are still some that get it wrong.

Not sure I agree with you there. You struck on a poster who enjoys games with "B-tier PS2" gameplay from time to time.

 

[ungalo]

Really, those guys were better off as Clover Studios with Capcoms backing. I know Capcom closed them, but Capcom itself has reinvented itself since and creates excellent games PG can only dream of.

Imo Bayonetta or Vanquish are better than Viewtiful Joe or Okami, in the end Sega did better with them.

I don't see the point of comparing a single studio to a big company like Capcom, but i think those games would not have dragged down Capcom's output, quality wise.

Platinum made some shitty games because they had to, they needed contracts just to survive, it's an entirely different context.

So yeah really a shit news to me, those independant studios of a decent size are always getting fucked as time goes by.

 

[March Climber]

Not sure I agree with you there. You struck on a poster who enjoys games with "B-tier PS2" gameplay from time to time.

For me it comes down to setting reasonable standards. Remember how awkward PS1 and PS2 first person shooters were to control before we finally standardized controls(I'd say somewhere between the time of Halo 2 and CoD 3)? It's like they couldn't compute what to do with the left stick and right stick let alone the triggers, so it was the wild west of shooter control schemes. Some games even used the Dpad for aiming. We have collectively moved on for that and thank goodness for that, because afterwards it became more about the quality of the game's content, rather than the frustrations of dealing with a new control scheme.

Now imagine if there were any first person shooters released today that didn't know what to do with the left stick and right stick or triggers. That's how I feel about action/adventure games that control terribly in today's age.

Also as a disclaimer, I'm not stating that every action/adventure game should be like DMC or Bayonetta. I'm simply wanting that genre of games to be more responsive when pressing a button and feel smoother to play. Basically there should be agreed upon standards.

 

[ungalo]

Also as a disclaimer, I'm not stating that every action/adventure game should be like DMC or Bayonetta

They should though, enough of shitty Souls-like or God of War-esque games.

 

[March Climber]

They should though, enough of shitty Souls-like

Your post is a monkey paw's wish. If what you asked for had happened, then the post you just typed would have just changed to this:

They should though, enough of shitty Bayonetta-likes

That's why I put the disclaimer, because I don't mind the variety.

 

[ungalo]

I was exaggerating on purpose, but given the state of action games for the last 10 years, a lot has to be done to balance things out.

 

[Hypereides]

Totally agree, I dont think Platinum ever really iterated or evolved in their entire existence. Its also really hard to look past the fact that they specifically took licensed games then made absolutely zero effort with them…Its just that arrogance, like working contractually was beneath them.
Nier was probably the best game they contributed too but most of that was already there so.
Rising has a weird fanboy nostalgia these days, it did have some awesome bosses for sure but I agree with you, no on the fly weapon switching, having parry also be the attack button etc, gimmicky half assed ‘stealth’, its just poor. Even at the time it was dated.
Yeah overrated Dev.

As someone who played MGR as of recent; I will assert there is definitely nothing wrong with the mapping of the parry button and its system. It requires some practice to get good at it. I can understand some just aren't willing to take the path and invest the time to get there. Perfect counters are really satisfying. Especially, since they do a x1.5 damage return on a foe. The part with the sub-weapon system is them perhaps trying to pay homage to the arsenal/inventory rotation in the mainline MGS series. Same deal with the "stealth" sections, I guess.

I'm legit not surprised people are praising it these days. The game got somewhat snubbed by critics and has great gameplay depth with good replayability.

For me it comes down to setting reasonable standards. Remember how awkward PS1 and PS2 first person shooters were to control before we finally standardized controls(I'd say somewhere between the time of Halo 2 and CoD 3)? It's like they couldn't compute what to do with the left stick and right stick let alone the triggers, so it was the wild west of shooter control schemes. Some games even used the Dpad for aiming. We have collectively moved on for that and thank goodness for that, because afterwards it became more about the quality of the game's content, rather than the frustrations of dealing with a new control scheme.

Now imagine if there were any first person shooters released today that didn't know what to do with the left stick and right stick or triggers. That's how I feel about action/adventure games that control terribly in today's age.

Also as a disclaimer, I'm not stating that every action/adventure game should be like DMC or Bayonetta. I'm simply wanting that genre of games to be more responsive when pressing a button and feel smoother to play. Basically there should be agreed upon standards.

I don't, to be frank. I wasn't bothered by how FPS's played on the PS2. CoD, when it first introduced ADS, I perceived as a sweet addition, but it didn't detract my enjoyment from the other regular FPS's at the time. I find it that with most games it comes down to how flexible you are. I've read people/reviewers who flung shit at legitimately good games just because they posed a hurdle in terms of how they were supposed to apply themselves to some new mechanic.

It sounds more like some people expect games to accommodate their skill level and not the other way around (people readjusting their skill level to suit the game). Especially, when a game might come with a steep learning curve. Its no wonder that homogenity is a recurrent issue in modern gaming when people reject new gameplay mechanics that may require a different approach.

I guess we all have different ideas about what makes an appealing game and that's fine I suppose. It would be awfully boring if every third person action game would to take notes from Platinum's homework. The industry should have space for both "B-tier PS2" games and more polished action games.

 

[nial]

His last directed game really was The Wonderful 101? A decade ago?
Great game, but it flopped so hard that Nintendo (owner of the title/IP) allowed them to release it on PS4.

 

[Killer8]

Platinum have been hit or miss since their inception. For every masterpiece like Bayonetta, Vanquish or Nier, there has been dreadful shovelware like Legend of Korra, Star Fox or that TMNT game. It's clear those games were made in order to keep the lights on, so I can't really fault them for that - financially, Platinum always seemed to be just about keeping their head above water - but when you are doing licensed shit for spare change, at what point do you draw the line between making a game as a 'product' versus as 'art'?

Platinum seemed to have much more serious issues since the late 2010s. Astral Chain was a high point but thereafter their output has been very sub-par, leaning more towards the 'miss' side than the hits. Granblue Fantasy: Relink was taken away from them to be developed internally by Cygames. Scalebound was cancelled. Who knows what states these games were in. Babylon's Fall was an unmitigated disaster and is probably the very game Kamiya is referring to. The only stand-out was Bayonetta 3 but that took them about 5 years to get it out the door.

My personal issue with them is that despite making many incredible games over the years, there wasn't a great deal of evolution of their formula. You lose track of the number of their games which fell back on the "dodge at the last second to activate slow-mo and then spam attack" gameplay loop (Bayonetta, Transformers, MGR, Nier Automata).

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I don't see a bright future for Platinum unless they change. Even working closely with Nintendo, I'm not sure they can become an amazing studio. And I doubt any other publisher would seriously invest in them.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

My personal issue with them is that despite making many incredible games over the years, there wasn't a great deal of evolution of their formula. You lose track of the number of their games which fell back on the "dodge at the last second to activate slow-mo and then spam attack" gameplay loop (Bayonetta, Transformers, MGR, Nier Automata).

That and the "draw a line on the screen to activate an attack or make a change to the world", which goes back as early as Viewtiful Joe and Okami. Not a bad mechanic, but it needs to evolve or be augmented by additional ones for variety.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Rising has a weird fanboy nostalgia these days, it did have some awesome bosses for sure but I agree with you, no on the fly weapon switching, having parry also be the attack button etc, gimmicky half assed ‘stealth’, its just poor. Even at the time it was dated.
Yeah overrated Dev.

I mean they had to salvage the game from KojiPro who were too trash to do sword physics which is why Raiden doesn't have a sword in Ground Zeroes & had a limited dev period to fix it. With what we were given was good. I'll shit on PG* but let's not about some of their older efforts.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

March Climber is quickly becoming one of my favorite posters on the NeoGAF.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Hideki Kamiya On Why He Left PlatinumGames, His YouTube Channel, and His Next Game - IGN

In a wide-ranging interview with IGN, game developer legend Hideki Kamiya reveals why he left Bayonetta maker PlatinumGames and what's next.

www.ign.com

'' I don't think of games as products, but rather as works of art.”


Motherfucker.... I told him that Okami considered it an artistic work... And yet the idiot blocked me.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

. Whens the last time Sony did something rather unique?

Gravity Rush is the answer.

 

[March Climber]

I wasn't bothered by how FPS's played on the PS2. CoD, when it first introduced ADS, I perceived it as a sweet addition, but it didn't detract my enjoyment from the other regular FPS's at the time. I find it that with most games it comes down to how flexible you are. I've read people/reviewers who flung shit at legitimately good games just because they posed a hurdle in terms of how they were supposed to apply themselves to some new mechanic.

To clarify because I don't think I came across clear enough in my older post disclaimer: Everything I'm talking about is not about gameplay mechanics. I don't want every shooter to copy ADS, the same way I don't want every action game to copy DMC/Bayonetta-style combat. That's not what my post was about. It is about responsive controls and smooth gameplay-feel.

It sounds more like some people expect games to accommodate their skill level and not the other way around (people readjusting their skill level to suit the game). Especially, when a game might come with a steep learning curve. Its no wonder that homogenity is a recurrent issue in modern gaming when people reject new gameplay mechanics that may require a different approach.

This has nothing to do with my previous post. Again, it's about the above. For me, it's very simple: When I press a button, how long does it take on the screen before the character takes an action? Does the action on screen match what I'm trying to do on my controller? Does everything feel too stiff? If you want, you can think of lag in an online game from a similar standpoint. Lag is not a skill issue.

I guess we all have different ideas about what makes an appealing game and that's fine I suppose.

I think we are closer in opinion than you think about this and that there is a misunderstanding happening here lol.

It would be awfully boring if every third person action game would to take notes from Platinum's homework. The industry should ahve space for both "B-tier PS2" games and more polished action games.

I agree and that's why I made sure to state that I don't want every game to end up like Bayonetta or DMC.

Here is what's happening: you are speaking about gameplay design, whereas I'm talking about gameplay feel. In your case, PS2 B-tier games are fine conceptually because it breeds creativity. That part I'm fine with. However, in my specific case I don't feel like they are fine in control scheme, because it makes 'random Namco action game' feel like crap to control. It has been proven that controls don't need to have any bearing on difficulty, because you can create a difficult video game without it needing to control in an obtuse, unresponsive, or stiff manner.

If anything, a developer purposefully using bad controls and making their game unresponsive in today's age, as a crutch to make a game more difficult, means it is a skill issue for them because they couldn't figure out how to do it without mucking up the controls.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I think Platinum has been a shit studio for the better part of their existence tbh. They were good with the first Bayonetta and Vanquish, and then with some external projects like NieR. But most of the times what they release is budget trash. I respect them for MG Rising since it was apparently being cooked up in mere months. But on a personal level I didn't like the game, it looked awful, level design was horrible and the gameplay wasn't that good too imo (terrible weapon system, no evade button etc).

I don't see why this studio is so revered. Okay, 2 of their first 4 games were good (I didn't like Mad World and Anarchy Reigns), then according to their fans they needed to get a shot at every IP out there. All their games I played, let it be Bayonetta, Vanquish, Transformers, MG Rising... even NieR.. they all use the same slow mo gimmick that got tiresome to me. And with Babylon and TMNT they created outright stinkers. And Bayonetta hasn't really become much improved from the first game onward.

Really, those guys were better off as Clover Studios with Capcoms backing. I know Capcom closed them, but Capcom itself has reinvented itself since and creates excellent games PG can only dream of.

Indeed, MG Rising is one of my favorite games, Vanquish is a great game... Bayonetta is very overrated... Nier Automata is good... But I agree with that slow motion effect... And I hate it with my being wonderful 101, it seems like a very stupid game to me... In plot and in the ost.

Transformes was a big... MEH... And I got a PS4 version... I never pass the second scenario... Because was so boring.

 

[tommib]

. Whens the last time Sony did something rather unique?

Love it or hate it but Returnal was the last interesting and original game Sony released. I’m really afraid we won’t see something like it ever again. It’s almost a product from a Sony that appears to not exist.

 

[Deerock71]

Nah, Kamiya has a excellent body of work that includes different genres.

Itagaki was only really known for Ninja Garden, while great, came after and borrowed from the original Devil May Cry (who was created by...).