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How Algeria could Destroy the EU

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Ok, the headline's sort of burying the lead here - it's not really about the destruction of the EU, but a potential civil war that could make Syria look like a skirmish:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/how-algeria-could-destroy-the-eu/

It is more than possible that before any Brexit deal is discussed, let alone concluded, the EU will have effectively collapsed. And the key factor could be the demise of Algeria’s leader of 17 years. President Abdelaziz Bouteflika is 79 and has needed a wheelchair since having a stroke in 2013. ‘His mind is even more infirm than his body,’ one observer tells me. Bouteflika returned home recently after a week’s stay at a private clinic in France. His prognosis isn’t good.

Officially, Bouteflika underwent standard ‘periodic medical tests’ in Grenoble. But no one believes this. Among people who know Algeria well, there is little doubt that he is severely incapacitated and does not have much time left. That means that his regime does not have much time left either. The consequences of that will stretch far beyond Algeria.

When Bouteflika goes, Algeria will probably implode. The Islamists who have been kept at bay by his iron hand will exploit the vacuum. Tensions that have been buried since the civil war will re-emerge. And then Europe could be overwhelmed by another great wave of refugees from North Africa.

Yet almost no one outside Algeria is remotely aware of what is about to happen. Other, that is, than western intelligence agencies. They may have been caught un-awares by the misnamed Arab Spring in 2011, but they are all too aware of what is on the cards in Algeria. Behind the scenes, governments are readying themselves for another civil war — and its consequences.

It was only 24 years ago that 150,000 died in an Algerian civil war between the Islamists and the state. This time, things will be far more bloody, not least because of the development of armed Islamism over the past few years.

Some observers have mistaken the decline in electoral success of Islamist parties as evidence of the decline of Islamism within Algeria. El-Islah, Ennahda and the Movement of Society and Peace have fractured and split. In the 2012 elections, they tried coming together as the Green Algeria Alliance but still managed to win only 48 out of 462 seats in parliament.

This is deeply misleading. Islamist leaders have switched tactics. Long ago they realised they cannot win through the ballot, so they have been using other means. As self-proclaimed guardians of public morality, they have campaigned to ensure the school curriculum is focused on ‘Islamic science’ and used their communal influence to try to stop the government changing the ‘family code’, which keeps women under the ‘guardianship’ of men. They have had fatwas issued demanding that ministries ensure women wear veils and men grow beards, and last year attempted — albeit unsuccessfully — to block a bill that criminalised violence against women.

Within the past few years, the veil has become normal in Algeria, with an estimated 70 per cent of women now wearing one (up to 90 per cent outside towns). And a billion dollars is now being spent building the largest mosque in Africa, in Algiers.

And this is all while the state successfully opposes formal Islamist influence. When President Bouteflika goes, it is clear that the Islamists — propelled by their brothers outside Algeria — will attempt to seize the day. Although you will struggle to find any mention of Algeria and its likely future direction in the press, European governments have been reflecting for months on what looks like a brewing crisis.

An Algerian civil war would create huge numbers of refugees. One analyst told me he expects 10 to 15 million Algerians will try to leave. Given Algeria’s history, they would expect to be rescued by one nation: France. In its impact on the EU, even a fraction of this number would dwarf the effect of the Syrian civil war. Given the political trauma that the refugee crisis has already caused in Europe, a massive Algerian exodus could cause tremendous insecurity.

Obviously, no one knows how long Bouteflika has left. Nor do we know how rapidly civil war could develop. But were the crisis to begin before the French presidential election next April, and were Algerian refugees to start appearing on French soil — neither scenario by any means impossible — it is hard to imagine anything more likely to hand victory to Marine Le Pen and the Front National.

Other, that is, than a further Islamist terror attack in France, which the French authorities already believe is extremely likely. It would become even likelier with a sudden influx of Algerian extremists. A Le Pen victory would make Brexit seem almost irrelevant, given her pledge to hold a referendum on French EU membership. With France pulling out, or Frexit, there could effectively be no EU for Britain to leave.

Of course, this scenario is predicated on a series of ifs. But even if only one or two come about, and even if Bouteflika doesn’t die until after the April vote in France, the consequences will be barely less dramatic. An Algerian civil war and the ensuing refugee crisis would shake France to the core. Whether it is Fillon or Le Pen in the Elysée, the French president (and his or her EU counterparts) would have to grapple with a crisis that could prove to be the EU’s final tipping point.

tl;dr Algeria's strongman leader is on his deathbed, and the demographic shifts that should be making Algeria more liberal actually seem to be having the opposite effect. The fear is that, in the power vacuum of his death, Islamists will attempt to seize control as we have seen in other corners of the Middle East and North Africa, creating a massive civil war that will, again, see many millions attempting to flee to safety in Europe.

Anyone got any knowledge of this? Algeria was relatively quiet during the kerfuffle of 2011.
 
Shit, this country doesn't need ANOTHER civil war :/
Although as for Islamists taking the country... I don't know. It's a really militarized country. There's soldiers everywhere and check posts every 500 meters.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
How is this hypothetical Algerian situation different from the Libyan one we have right now?

Algeria has five times the population and a significantly larger expatriate community in the European Union already.
 
How is this hypothetical Algerian situation different from the Libyan one we have right now?

It's got a much larger population and a strong history with France (like Mali) which makes it a lot harder for France - and by extension the EU - to simply say "we're only taking X number" a la Syria.

Please use selective bolding when making very long article quotes.

It's less than 900 words long and I did a "too long, didn't read" at the end. How low does the barrier to entry need to be before you deign to give a topic more time than it takes to write that you didn't read it?
 

TedNindo

Member
EU can't take this at the moment. Far right parties are already at the point where they might gain power in the future. And Islam has already been THE talking point of the year among almost everyone.
 
EU can't take this at the moment. Far right parties are already at the point where they might gain power in the future. And Islam has already been THE talking point of the year among almost everyone.
The EU could take it if we got our shit together and acted on the solidarity we like to preach. We didn't face the brunt of the previous crisis and we would probably not face the brunt of this one.
 

Alx

Member
It's got a much larger population and a strong history with France (like Mali) which makes it a lot harder for France - and by extension the EU - to simply say "we're only taking X number" a la Syria.

It also makes it "easier" to send troops, like in Mali (or even more so), rather than standing on the edge. The country and population still has large ties with Algeria and couldn't let it all go to chaos.
The difficult part will be how propaganda could affect the Algerian descendants in the French population. One could see how IS could seduce them with the "Arabs Vs western world" label, but maybe it would be more difficult with Algeria when most of them specifically fled violence from islamist groups not so long ago (in the 90s IIRC ?).

I'm not even sure events before the French elections would 100% help the far right. Sure they strive on fear and unrest, but they'll also need to take a position on that issue, and what will it be ? Blame EU ? It won't have anything to do with it. Build a wall in the middle of the Mediterranean ? Decide to go to war or just ignore it altogether ?
 
Reading the OP, the only thing I kept thinking to myself is that the evangelical christians of the US ironically have no idea how much they have in common with extremist islamist elements in the middle east and north africa.

That's why they probably hate them so much: projection.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I thought Algeria was ok. Surprised to hear this.

For a given definition of okay, it is okay at the moment. It has a strongman dictator who has so far quelled descent. But, much like how Syria's crisis at least in the mid-term can probably be traced to the death of Hafez and the resultant uncertainty and insecurity of the established elite, Bouteflika's death (or functional incapacity) are both immediately imminent.

It may end up being a big pile of nothing and it will transition securely to his brother Said. Or... the article above might happen.
 

E-phonk

Banned
Reading the OP, the only thing I kept thinking to myself is that the evangelical christians of the US ironically have no idea how much they have in common with extremist islamist elements in the middle east and north africa.

That's why they probably hate them so much: projection.

The power of nightmares (3 hour bbc documentary by adam curtis about terrorism - slightly dated because it's from the mid 2000's but still relevant in it's overal message and showing how islam terrorism was born and what made it grow) makes the parallel that neocons and extreme islam are both different sides from the same coin, with very similar narrow worldviews.
 
If that happens, it's going to be a mess. Europe will not handle such amounts of refugees and will start to deny them. France and such will probably go in with their military and set up "safe zones" in the country.
 
It also makes it "easier" to send troops, like in Mali (or even more so), rather than standing on the edge. The country and population still has large ties with Algeria and couldn't let it all go to chaos.
The difficult part will be how propaganda could affect the Algerian descendants in the French population. One could see how IS could seduce them with the "Arabs Vs western world" label, but maybe it would be more difficult with Algeria when most of them specifically fled violence from islamist groups not so long ago (in the 90s IIRC ?).

That's very true, though I guess the feasibility of that depends on how the transition is handled. If it's largely OK with just some pockets of resistance it might be politically viable to send some troops, but it's hard to see them making a practical (rather than symbolic) difference. Algeria has a higher population than Iraq and it also has a pretty significant military - it seems to me that if its own military is not enough (or, rather, it breaks rank such that only parts of it can be relied on) then even all of France's might is unlikely to be enough to prevent a collapse, even if such a deployment were politically viable in France. The US and a big chunk of NATO had a hard time holding Iraq together after its military collapsed - without the US, even if the UK joined in, it's hard to imagine us making much difference. I think the only time it might "work" is if military dissent is in a sweet spot where extra forces are helpful but the bulk of the work can be done by the remaining Algerian forces.
 

norinrad

Member
Even the right wings and populists won't be able to tackle this. Could also be the end of them for a long time in the political arena if shit goes down. Lets hope North Africa doesn't implode like whats going on in the Middle East.

The only winners are going to be weapon manufactures and their insurance company investors.
 

Tugatrix

Member
Let's all worry about Marine Le pen and her ambition first. France governments need to focus on resolving the issues that worries the french that support her, there are no winning if we don't bring those people back to the sane side of politics
 

system11

Member
The power of nightmares (3 hour bbc documentary by adam curtis about terrorism - slightly dated because it's from the mid 2000's but still relevant in it's overal message and showing how islam terrorism was born and what made it grow) makes the parallel that neocons and extreme islam are both different sides from the same coin, with very similar narrow worldviews.

Just that pesky minor difference of suicide bombing, vandalising ancient historical sites that you consider blasphemous, and beheading people.
 

Maledict

Member
I don't see it happening TBH. Like that spectator piece from last week, it seems more a perverse wish fulfillment fantasy that involves wrecking the EU than anything else. The spectator is creating a nice sideline of EU destruction porn it seems... ;-)

Abdelaziz has been ill for a long time, and the country remains in an iron grip. When he passes it won't be a surprise, and I struggle to see how the current state machinery falls apart when the person whose really been running things for the last 5 years anyway now takes over.

There will probably be some flare ups, but this is going to be an incredibly planned transition. Probably very brutal as well. And I would be utterly surprised if French secret service support wasn't being offered already, or even on the ground.
 

Jinroh

Member
Alegria is basically a military dictatorship, I don't think much would happen. The president is just a puppet nowadays.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I don't see it happening TBH. Like that spectator piece from last week, it seems more a perverse wish fulfillment fantasy that involves wrecking the EU than anything else. The spectator is creating a nice sideline of EU destruction porn it seems... ;-)

Abdelaziz has been ill for a long time, and the country remains in an iron grip. When he passes it won't be a surprise, and I struggle to see how the current state machinery falls apart when the person whose really been running things for the last 5 years anyway now takes over.

There will probably be some flare ups, but this is going to be an incredibly planned transition. Probably very brutal as well. And I would be utterly surprised if French secret service support wasn't being offered already, or even on the ground.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Said is pretty heavily integrated into the Algerian state structure. It's not really going to be a surprise. His brother's slow decline if anything has made the process more predictable and more manageable.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I don't see it happening TBH. Like that spectator piece from last week, it seems more a perverse wish fulfillment fantasy that involves wrecking the EU than anything else. The spectator is creating a nice sideline of EU destruction porn it seems... ;-)

Abdelaziz has been ill for a long time, and the country remains in an iron grip. When he passes it won't be a surprise, and I struggle to see how the current state machinery falls apart when the person whose really been running things for the last 5 years anyway now takes over.

There will probably be some flare ups, but this is going to be an incredibly planned transition. Probably very brutal as well. And I would be utterly surprised if French secret service support wasn't being offered already, or even on the ground.

While the situation in Algeria is indeed very troublesome, these days The Spectator is basically pumping out Brexit fanfiction as a new source of income. It's rather weird.
 

dalin80

Banned
While it's on course to be a clusterfuck to rival Syria I'm still much more concerned about Russian posturing and meddling at the moment and the effect that will have on the politics of the northern hemisphere.
 
Honestly I feel like the bigger, or at least more immediate concern, would be the potential spillover, particularly east of the country. Libya is obvious - a surge of migrants or militants coming over could certainly bring down the precariously balanced house of cards, especially given the primary divide of east and west in the current civil war. Tunisia's made progress since the revolution, but an active conflict just over the border, with factions that potentially don't care for borders, is not good for the stability of any young democracy, especially small ones that would be a desirable place to flee to.

Meanwhile to the west you have Morocco, who aren't exactly best mates with Algeria. They could seek to exacerbate the issue if they felt it was to their advantage, but even if they stayed out of the conflict, refugees would probably try to cross the border to escape the violence. Considering how Morocco handles migrants at the moment - either trying to push them back, or deflecting them on to Spain - that'll probably raise anxiety and tensions to say the least.

But as mentioned, the country could transition peacefully, even if it might be just kicking it into the long grass.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Honestly this reads more like a "EU will be gone before we will need to face the challenges of Brexit" fantasy/wishful writing that has plagued the British press in the past months.

Edit: even BBC's EU news these days are just about right wing parties or refugees.
 

Madouu

Member
Bouteflika might as well have been dead for the last few years, there is no single handed strong arm that controls the country.

His death might increase instability risk but not by a high amount. I think it's already moderately high.
 

Garjon

Member
Honestly this reads more like a "EU will be gone before we will need to face the challenges of Brexit" fantasy/wishful writing that has plagued the British press in the past months.

Edit: even BBC's EU news these days are just about right wing parties or refugees.

It's also bizarre how so many think that if the EU collapses, all the problems facing it will magically disappear. The refugee crisis is not going away without cooperation of all states and with climate change, it's going to get a lot worse.
 
It's also bizarre how so many think that if the EU collapses, all the problems facing it will magically disappear. The refugee crisis is not going away without cooperation of all states and with climate change, it's going to get a lot worse.
If critical thinking were a factor here we most likely wouldn't have voted for Brexit, French people wouldn't vote Le Penn, the US wouldn't have elected Donald Trump.

People don't care about facts, they don't care about statistics. Refugee crises have nothing to do with the EU but the Leave campaign exploited the fuck out of it and it worked. People moan about the EU and the fear of refugees as though there were direct correlation.

Just... Fuck, I guess.
 
The EU could take it if we got our shit together and acted on the solidarity we like to preach. We didn't face the brunt of the previous crisis and we would probably not face the brunt of this one.

Solidarity means nothing in the face of 15 million displaced, uneducated, unskilled, culturally alien mouths to feed.

Countries do not have the resources or the electoral support to entertain unfettered immigration of that magnitude in the span of a few years.

This article is largely based on speculation, but why hasn't the current ruler clearly outlined a plan of succession? It's sad to see what hardline Islamists have forced upon the country/region, you'd think he'd try to be on top of this, assuming he's still cognizant enough to actually rule.
 

norinrad

Member
While the situation in Algeria is indeed very troublesome, these days The Spectator is basically pumping out Brexit fanfiction as a new source of income. It's rather weird.

Well its not wired at all to me. This are pending problems and the outcome would not be desirable. Italy for example is crumbling under all the migrants coming in while the rest of the EU just gives them the middle finger. Not so much solidarity at all from other EU countries.
 
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