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[teiresias]

OK, I'm about to think I just can't play these D&D games to save my life. I'm starting to play BG1 for like the third time to try and see if I can actually get anywhere. I just die far too easily in this game, the combat annoys me. What are ways to play this game that are actually productive?

I mean, should I start the game and follow the story "clues" for a long time until venturing off on other quests. For example, that woman in the Friendly Arm Inn that wants the spiders cleared from her home in Beregost. You get that quest very early since you go to the FAI almost immediately, but when I go through Beregost (on my way to Nashkel after picking up Kahlied, Jaheira, and that dwarf and crazy mage just outside Candlekeep), I try to do that quest and keep getting characters poisoned and they die, and of course, I've no money to pay to get them raised. It's very annoying.

I guess, this is what I mainly don't get about "western" RPG's, there doesn't seem to be much structure as to what you should do when or what you CAN do when, and then all these side quests get piled into the main storyline in your jumbled journal and you can't keep track of any of it without reading the whole thing.

Anyway, what are some pointers? Do I actually have to learn the entire damn D&D ruleset to play this game effectively?

 

[Pellham]

I didn't know anything about D&D when I first started playing.
But yeah, western RPGs tend to be nonlinear and freeform, basically you have to pay attention to what you read, and you can do quests in whatever order you want (more or less).

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Those games feel too much like work for my liking.

 

[MrAngryFace]

I think the real question is WHY.

BG2 is god.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I liked BG1 for its simplicity, for the varied locations and for the outdoor exploration. When I tried BG2 it loaded me with too many quests at once in a single area and the writing and voice acting got on my nerves. I'll try it again sometime, but I doubt I'll get very far.

 

[MrAngryFace]

All I remember is cd swapping till my hands bled.

 

[akascream]

I like the free feel of western RPG's. I just can't hang with RPG's on rails. I mean, you really aren't playing a role.. you are forced into one (oh boy, a cute bouncy robot, or a spiky haired angsty teen!!.. just what I always wanted to be!) and you really can't do what you like. In fact, why are "eastern" RPG's considered RPG's again?.. because they are plot/timesinks?

 

[MrAngryFace]

*spoilers*















Chapter 3 of BG2 and Throne of Bhaal were the best moments. The minute it went to YOU MADE ENOUGH MONEY TIME FOR MAIN FOCUS it sorta sucked. However it made up for that with that awesome puzzle/riddle maze, the chance to beat up pirates, and the slaying of vampires.

 

[Teknopathetic]

I wouldn't call them RPGs because really, besides the battling, there's no other gameplay sans some mini-games there to fool you into thinking you're doing more than walking on a straight line.

 

[Prospero]

All I remember is cd swapping till my hands bled.

That was actually what kept me from putting more than four hours or so into BG1. Recently, some crazy guy came up with a homebrew app that lets you do a full five-disc install of BG1 and run it under the (far more stable) BG2 engine for Mac OS X--maybe that'll get me to try the game again.

 

[akascream]

Wasn't there a DVD version of BG1 at launch or soon after? I was really dissapointed when the re-release wasn't DVD.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Wasn't there a DVD version of BG1 at launch or soon after? I was really dissapointed when the re-release wasn't DVD.

Yup. It's pretty hard to find these days.

 

[wandering goat]

Do a custom install on Baldur's Gate 1 and choose to install everything. This way you won't have to continually switch CDs except to watch the movies.

 

[Belfast]

I like the free feel of western RPG's. I just can't hang with RPG's on rails. I mean, you really aren't playing a role.. you are forced into one (oh boy, a cute bouncy robot, or a spiky haired angsty teen!!.. just what I always wanted to be!) and you really can't do what you like. In fact, why are "eastern" RPG's considered RPG's again?.. because they are plot/timesinks?

Well its either "Eastern RPGs" and angsty teens or "western RPGs" and generic adventurers. Unless you're going to start taking up a british accent and actually roleplaying your character, it doesn't make any difference. Few people actually do that and many of them are considered supernerds.

But I agree with teiresias, its one reason I've never been able to really get into most western RPGs...yeah, they're free form, but its almost TOO much. Its just that old idea of giving someone so many choices as to what to do that they'll simply get confused and end up not doing anything at all.

IMO, games just need a comfortable balance. Sidequests are neat and all, but they should not take away from the main storyline. The game should measure out how many you have access to at one time and make sure they never become a burden.

 

[teiresias]

I have the DVD version of the game. Soon after release they had a deal where you could send in all of your game CD's and get the DVD version of the game in return. It's a much better way to play the game, and I wish more of these huge multi-disc games would start shipping on DVDs, it pisses me off that we're so far into the DVD-gen and yet all PC games pretty much ship on CDs, it's stupid.

Anyway, I guess my main problem is character creation and development in the game. This is why I asked if I'd just have to go ahead and learn the damned AD&D ruleset to know how to properly create and maintain characters. I've read some FAQ's and they talk about double-classing humans and all of this stuff and my eyes gloss over. I'm like, "OK, now for those of us that don't want to go and buy the damned AD&D rulebook what should we do?"

 

[akascream]

Well its either "Eastern RPGs" and angsty teens or "western RPGs" and generic adventurers. Unless you're going to start taking up a british accent and actually roleplaying your character, it doesn't make any difference. Few people actually do that and many of them are considered supernerds.

Naw, its more like I can play a character how I imagine because my brain isn't hindered by totally stylized characters. Western RPG's tend to have more options for a particular encounter aswell. And that is really only taking characters into consideration. I really liked just going wherever I like in games like Morrowind, the BG games, and MMOs. It's very different than a linear experience with minor distractions.

"OK, now for those of us that don't want to go and buy the damned AD&D rulebook what should we do?"

Don't worry so much about it. The rulesets in D&D videogames are very bare bones and no more complex than learning any other RPG as you play. Just pick something and run with it.

 

[Vieo]

Dude, you're in luck. I just reinstalled BG1 because I got my hands on the BG2 collection(I never played the expansion) and I'm going through the whole series again(except for Tales of the Sword Coast which I can't get my hands on).

I put in AT LEAST 300+ hours on both games(and I still didn't solve all the quests or see everything there was to see).

Here's some tips for combat:

1. The Spacebar is your best friend. When you need time to think, press the spacebar and pause the game. This is especially needed when choosing what spells to cast.

2. Yeah. When you first start out in this game, you have the potential to die alot, because until you gain a few levels and get your hands on some uber-gear, if you try to fight headon, you'll get your ass handed to you. Well, that wasn't really a tip.

3. Have two party members that are good at ranged attacks. I don't mean spells like magic missle. I mean good with bows, crossbows, darts. When your melee guys attack, have those ranged guys stand off in the distance and fire their weapons.


Cheese the computer:
Even if you're a low leveled party, I still have a good few methods for cheesing the computer. Just remember you should save often.

1. THE LURE: If you find a group of enemies that are tough, try to lure one of them away. Load a saved game after encountering the enemies. Have the rest of your party fall back, while one member creeps closer and closer. When one enemy starts attacking, have that character run back to the party. The enemy should follow and then have your whole party attack that enemy.
This is good when you're fighting a cleric or a mage. You have to understand that ecomputer have to play by the same rules you do(provided the enemies are one of the races you can play the game as). This means, if you are fighting a mage or a cleric, if you can get him to start casting a spell then have your luring character run, then run back, he will eventually run out of spells to cast at you.

2. THE OL' SWITCHEROO: That Ogre Berserker killing your party members in one hit? Well, pull the ol switcheroo on him. Realize that when you're facing one tough melee character, he can only attack one of your party members at a time. In the dialogue box, you'll see a message that tells you what character the ogre is attacking. Have all of your other characters attack the ogre, then select the one character the ogre has singled out. Have your targeted character run around the ogre in circles or run around in general. The ogre will chase that character while the rest of your party will kick the crap out of him when his back is turned. Eventually the ogre will turn to attack a different party member. Just repeat the step above.
This isn't easy and it's more of a skill, but once you get it down, you'll can avoid some headaches of death.


As for quests, they're just sidequests. The main quest will pretty much be what most of the NPCs are talking about (e.g. the iron shortage). You can follow up on a sidequests whenever but you should realize when they're out of your party's league and should be completed when you get more levels.

As for the AD&D rules, you don't really need to know a lot to play this game. The main things to know are:

1. AC: The lower you can get a character's armor class, the better protected he will be against physical attacks.
2. Helmets: They help characters avoid getting hit with a critical hit.
3. Unless your character is a warrior-type, wearing heavy armor will lower his abilities. (e.g rogues, spell-casters, etc.)


Ahhh'... that's all I can think of.

 

[MrAngryFace]

If you happen to be playing Icewind Dale + Heart of Winter, make an entire party of druids and cheese through the game.

I prefer Icewind Dale's combat to BG2's just cause its wholesale armies of the undead slaughter. BG2 does have that whole 'showdown' aspect down tho.

 

[akascream]

Another good way to cheese through the game is with a single rogue. Hide in shadows is overpowered in the game, you can even hide while in battle and just keep backstabbing things (run behind something to hide). IIRC explosive arrows were also pretty handy.

 

[Date of Lies]

The adaptation might not be very easy but it's totally worth it. When you take the time to 1) understand the rules 2)explore 3)do all the quests, it's like the longest, most epic RPG you'll ever play, and NO part of this game is half-assed, it's 100% engaging all the way through (except maybe Throne of Bhaal where you could basically make all your characters get the best weapons and become super powerful with the special skills, "Wear anything" for rogues, WTF?)

My brother played BG1 for 2 weeks none-stop. And I mean none-stop.

So I guess you better have a bit more time on your hands or you can't quite get into it.

 

[kevm3]

BG 1 kind of sucks IMO. Bows are pretty powerful in that game... Almost overpowered. Just equip as many people with bows as you can and let lose. With powerful enemies, have them chase one character and run around with that character while the rest of your party picks them apart with arrows.

 

[teiresias]

Another good way to cheese through the game is with a single rogue. Hide in shadows is overpowered in the game, you can even hide while in battle and just keep backstabbing things (run behind something to hide). IIRC explosive arrows were also pretty handy.

Well, when I enter a new area that I either 1) want to explore or 2) just want to find a relatively safe path through, I generally use Imoen's stealth to find a path so I don't attract any hostile attention.

However, I don't think you can use stealth while attacking can you? Or is that a particular skill to rogues??

 

[akascream]

Yeah you can, you just need to be clever about it (ie. walk on the other side of something so your enemy can't see you). And yeah, ranged weapons can be pretty powerful too. Especially if you are playing a party. Give everyone a ranged weapon.. bows for fighters/rogues/rangers, slings for clerics ect. You will do a good amout of damage before you even engage the mobs in melee. Also (and this is probably just common sense) pick off enemies one by one. If each one of your guys is attacking another creep, your damage output will be the same, but you will take much more.