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[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Of course this system was going to be gamed. It was obvious the moment it was announced. A promotion to get exclusive in-game bonuses and extra content for a globally played game being limited to the US would mean that the global player base would want in.

It was especially stupid to use such a limited selections of characters in the code. It's like Red Bull have never done a redeemable code promotion before.

I can't see how there could be any recourse for anyone who does guess a code and redeems it. At most, the Red Bull site might record your IP address, and I assume when you use the token on the Bungie site, it reference back to the Red Bull token database.

How would Bungie know if the difference between you guessing a code, obtaining the code yourself, or being provided the code from someone who bought a can? Seeing how Bungie's stance for not having matchmaking for Nightfall, Raids and >lvl28 PoE is that players should rely on the online community to arrange games, they would know the same community would shares codes internationally.

Load of people are selling codes on eBay at the moment.

Besides what Bungie is doing wrong with the game, you're absolutely right. There are rabbid Destiny fans all around the world. Hell, some of you were saving cans for international Destiny fans. Some folks are ebaying it. Eventually the one that cannot afford it or buy it will game it. And it got gamed.

In the end, Bungie is locking out a content from a DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT to a select few 7/11-ers in select few regions with select few codes, to a content that doesn't even release until a few months. It was bound to happen. It sucks but it was. Both the process and the theft is disgusting. Both the idea and the execution is disgusting.

 

[Nipo]

It would. Theft is also this exact situation.

Again, its good you don't feel slighted by your situation. I really am glad, and I'm not telling you to feel bad or anything. But that doesn't change its consideration. This is theft.

Theft in the US is often legally defined as taking a physical object. This is an interesting case because what the person "stole" is access to virtual goods. Goods owned by Bungie not the person with the code.

This is closer to fraud or a computer crime of some sort than traditional theft.

 

[Brohan]

This thread turned me into a criminal. Feeling bad now, will repent by buying a redbull.

 

[The Crimson Beast]

I wonder where some of you would stand on this case http://abcnews.go.com/Business/ga-man-arrested-charging-electric-car-local-middle/story?id=21098590

Short version: Man charged his electric car at a middle school. Was arrested for theft. Value of stolen electricity was in the range of pennies. Would you guys calling this man morally bankrupt as well? Theft is theft right? lol.

 

[Taishan]

Take'em, you thieves!

7CX-J6X-DMX-737HD
LKD-YX6-47L-LJCDN

 

[TipsyArchmage]

Actually in this case its that they are, literally, criminals.

If a case of theft could be proven which I'm genuinely curious about

does anyone know of any actual cases where someone has been found guilty of theft for taking something like this? Any kind of competition or digital code, things that are a bonus but not actually given a price

 

[The Faceless Master]

Given Bungie's history, they will probably apologize to everyone whose code was taken by selling the mission for $9.99 or so.

Red Bull only costs like $1.99 iirc

 

[Syph Medwes]

Its not semantics. Its theft.
The red-bull can is being sold with a code. The code is part of the deal. It is absolutely irrelevant if you personally think the code is worthless. You are taking a part of the product that the the person buying the can has paid for in full.
Like you said, its like going to the supermarket and removing the toys out of the cereal boxes and kinder surprise eggs, and then saying it doesn't matter because you don't like toys anyway.
By using a code you have fraudulently generated, you are stealing some kid's digital toy - for which he or his parent have paid in full. The only difference is that taking some one else's code in the current situation is a lot easier with 0 chances of getting caught.

gaf is pretty left-wing, you're not gonna win the argument. kinda falls into the 'ol "this company is big they can take the hit blah blah"
you're right though
whatever though it's aight, red bull isn't that bad and while I disagree with this practice and the practice of hiding this behind a damn energy drink, if people want it bad enough they can just buy a can.

 

[TipsyArchmage]

This thread turned me into a criminal. Feeling bad now, will repent by buying a redbull.

If you really feel bad about it give the money to a charity or something

red bull did not lose anything in this case so it's pointless giving them money

 

[NullPointer]

This is closer to fraud or a computer crime of some sort than traditional theft.

If I remember correctly the law technically refers to this as "a dick move".

 

[The Faceless Master]

Actually in this case its that they are, literally, criminals.

and? people commit criminal acts when protesting. sometimes that's what it takes to get noticed.

 

[XenoRaven]

Actually in this case its that they are, literally, criminals.

Hope you've never jaywalked or broken the speed limit bro.

 

[KJRS_1993]

Are you insulting your belief is along the lines of "theft is alright?"

Ok, serious question: why? What justifies stealing, here and now, in this situation?

"Theft" blatantly isn't doing too badly for some people buddy. We'll be playing through a crappy ten minute mission while you tug your testicles over the bad bad thing that some random stranger hundreds of miles away did over the Internet.

Nice guys finish last my friend.

Spoiler

They have to wait until January.

 

[Brohan]

If you really feel bad about it give the money to a charity or something

red bull did not lose anything in this case so it's pointless giving them money

Well, it's more that im feeling bad for using a code that may or may not have ended up being used by an actual destiny player who bought the can.

Not really feeling sorry for red Bull or bungie. And i give to charity often enough.

 

[Costia]

I think you care a little bit too much about a code that has a value of zero.

Like i said, your personal opinion of the code is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion.
You can't steal things from other people just because they are worthless to you.

 

[Reebot]

and? people commit criminal acts when protesting. sometimes that's what it takes to get noticed.

You equated getting free entertainment with protesting.

Take a step back, really. Do you honestly feel, deep down inside, that getting free entertainment is a protest?

Might want to re-evaluate what's really important.

"Theft" blatantly isn't doing too badly for some people buddy. We'll be playing through a crappy ten minute mission while you tug your testicles over the bad bad thing that some random stranger hundreds of miles away did over the Internet.

Wow. I'm not sure why you got so aggressive.

Guilty conscious perhaps?

 

[Geedorah]

Might want to re-evaluate what's really important.

Words to live by.

 

[bebop242]

Well shit, i was going to buy a couple cans while i was in chicago (no 7-11s where i live) this weekend. Now I'm rethinking this.

 

[TheChundertaker]

and? people commit criminal acts when protesting. sometimes that's what it takes to get noticed.

really fighting the power here man.

 

[Fushin]

Like i said, your personal opinion of the code is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion.
You can't steal things from other people just because they are worthless to you.

I'm not going to get into an argument over "worth" with you.

 

[Joeku]

Digital goods delivered by cynical marketing tie-ins is probably not the best ground to plant your moral absolutism flags in, guys.

 

[InStrangerAeons]

I'm pretty sure the obsessive back-and-forth about the morality of this is going to be more entertaining than the dumb mission we're going to get.

 

[TheChundertaker]

Nice guys finish last my friend.

Spoiler

They have to wait until January.

Nice platitude m8.

 

[KJRS_1993]

Wow. I'm not sure why you got so aggressive.

Guilty conscious perhaps?

Aggressive? Really?
Nope.

 

[Nipo]

I'm pretty sure the obsessive back-and-forth about the morality of this is going to be more entertaining than the dumb mission we're going to get.

It will definitely go on longer. I don;t even have Destiny and I find the debate interesting.

 

[Reebot]

I'm not going to get into an argument over "worth" with you.

Since again, there's no argument to be had. By definition, these codes have worth.

 

[Squall516]

I mean its kinda messed up but i also think its also really messed up and shady for bungie to even do this and its like stealing from the players so on the off chance that maybe a few codes are taken from some cans i can deal with it. Because if your stupid enough to go and buy tons of cans and piss away money on such freaking bs like this and support this you honestly kinda deserve it, as messed up as that may sound :/ But anyway ya i cant get any of my combination to work, idk if its the site or if im doing it wrong? Can anyone maybe make a random generator tool or something to spit out the different permutation? that would be pretty awesome! casue im not going crazy for the exp just wanted a code so i can get the mission, even if it sucks at least i want to try it and not miss out on anything

 

[Dr Amazon MD]

You equated getting free entertainment with protesting.

Take a step back, really. Do you honestly feel, deep down inside, that getting free entertainment is a protest?

Might want to re-evaluate what's really important.

C'mon man you're the one breaking more the one copyright laws. Do you honestly feel, deep down inside, that getting free entertainment photos is not worse than redeeming a code?

 

[Reebot]

C'mon man you're the one breaking more the one copyright laws. Do you honestly feel, deep down inside, that getting free entertainment photos is not worse than redeeming a code?

So same question: do you really believe what you write about copyright law?

 

[rain elbows]

Dear Bungie,

https://www.bungie.net/en/help/article/11929

Bungie.net

Q. What behaviors can lead Bungie to apply account restrictions or bans to a user?

Bungie regards the following behavior to be in breach of the license agreement that governs Destiny, and therefore potentially subject to access restrictions:

Connecting to the Destiny game service with any of the following:

Modified game software
Modified game assets
Modified console hardware
Modified console firmware
Using an external program to modify the operation of the Destiny game software (trainer or mod)
Using an external program or device to automate gameplay or circumvent idle detection
Modification or interruption of Destiny network traffic with intent to disrupt other players’ experiences or to gain advantage in the game
Intentionally deriving gameplay benefit from another user’s behavior in the above categories
Unauthorized access to Destiny software or downloadable content (game piracy)
Impersonating a Bungie, Microsoft, Sony, or Activision employee

It’s pretty simple, really. Nobody, especially not Bungie, wants players to miss out on Destiny. Please don’t ruin the experience for anyone, including yourself. And remember, we’re always keeping an eye out for those who would spoil the world of Destiny.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Since again, there's no argument to be had. By definition, these codes have worth.

By definition, The Taken King has worth. This has no worth, with or without The Taken King. Even the fine prints will say "The code has no monetary value". Even the judge will say the same if this miraculously went to court, and Red Bull and Bungie lawyers will make you pay for the court fees as a thank you.

First one to show me proof via PM that their Red Bull code doesn't work will get $5 US PSN Code. Use that $5 towards 3 Red Bulls, or donate it to Bungie for The Taken King.

 

[Dr Amazon MD]

So same question: do you really believe what you write about copyright law?

I'm sorry do you have a form of written consent from the studio?

 

[TheChundertaker]

C'mon man you're the one breaking more the one copyright laws. Do you honestly feel, deep down inside, that getting free entertainment photos is not worse than redeeming a code?

I don't think a small jpeg image is even on the same level as taking this mission's code (as shallow as the mission may be).

 

[ps3ud0]

If I get extradited, will I have to pay for the flight & accommodation?

ps3ud0 8)

 

[Fushin]

Since again, there's no argument to be had. By definition, these codes have worth.

I'm done getting into off topic arguments, is all. Some of us don't care about being right on the internet.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Dear Bungie,

https://www.bungie.net/en/help/article/11929

Yes. Let's go to great lengths instead of holding the company accountable for a shitty cashgrab system. Fuck the consumer. THIEFS!

 

[rain elbows]

Yes. Let's go to great lengths instead of holding the company accountable for a shitty cashgrab system. Fuck the consumer. THIEFS!

You're getting worried, I can tell..

 

[Joeku]

By definition, The Taken King has worth. This has no worth, with or without The Taken King. Even the fine prints will say "The code has no monetary value". Even the judge will say the same if this miraculously went to court, and Red Bull and Bungie lawyers will make you pay for the court fees as a thank you.

First one to show me proof via PM that their Red Bull code doesn't work will get $5 US PSN Code. Use that $5 towards 3 Red Bulls, or donate it to Bungie for The Taken King.

Holy shit, you can get 3 Red Bulls for $5 in America? Dammit, Canada!

 

[Reebot]

By definition, The Taken King has worth. This has no worth, with or without The Taken King. Even the fine prints will say "The code has no monetary value".

Worth is not monetary value.

I'm sorry do you have a form of written consent from the studio?

Apology accepted. So looks like you don't actually know much about copyright law.

 

[Taishan]

Dear Bungie,

http://media.giphy.com/media/wi8Ez1mwRcKGI/giphy.gif

https://www.bungie.net/en/help/article/11929

Not piracy

Checkmate!

 

[Dr Amazon MD]

I don't think a small jpeg image is even on the same level as taking this mission's code (as shallow as the mission may be).

Got it, so he's committing a form piracy but it's not as bad as this other form of piracy. C'mon man theft is theft he said it himself.

 

[Brohan]

Not getting into the whole morality discussion (although it did have some effect one me) but isn't the value/worth of something like a digital code which can theoratically be generated an infinite amount of times, the value/worth that we ourselves attach to it?

Which might be exactly why some see it as theft and some don't?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Dear Bungie,

https://www.bungie.net/en/help/article/11929

Well the thing is, this isn't 'unauthorized'. Unless they ask for everyone to provide picture proof with the red bull, their username, and the code clearly shown, they'd have to parse through thousands of different pictures and then cross reference those codes with the ones already registered.

That would be hundreds if not thousands of man hours. Which Bungie probably doesn't have the ability to do.

And then what if they accidentally ban a person who legitly brought a red bull?

 

[Fushin]

Got it, so he's committing a form piracy but it's not as bad as this other form of piracy. C'mon man theft is theft he said it himself.

To be fair an avatar could be argued under fair use.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

You're getting worried, I can tell..

Pass me a Red Bull brotha. I'm sweating taurine.

Anyways, I love you all. I hope this gets sorted by the time the DLC is released. No one wants to miss out on a quest.

 

[TipsyArchmage]

So same question: do you really believe what you write about copyright law?

He doesn't have to believe it since it's true. It's never ever going to be enforced but using any image without the rights holders permission is a violation of copyright unless it falls under 'fair use' which using an image as an avatar does not

 

[TheChundertaker]

Got it, so he's committing a form piracy but it's not as bad as this other form of piracy. C'mon man theft is theft he said it himself.

I'm not sure if you are joking.

 

[Reebot]

Got it, so he's committing a form piracy but it's not as bad as this other form of piracy. C'mon man theft is theft he said it himself.

I would love for you to provide any time of code, law, or case citation showing an avatar to be in any way a form of piracy.

Until then, revel in having revealed how little you know about copyright law.

 

[Vire]

Well the thing is, this isn't 'unauthorized'. Unless they ask for everyone to provide picture proof with the red bull, their username, and the code clearly shown, they'd have to parse through thousands of different pictures and then cross reference those codes with the ones already registered.

That would be hundreds if not thousands of man hours. Which Bungie probably doesn't have the ability to do.

And then what if they accidentally ban a person who legitly brought a red bull?

I'm sure that would go over real well and help their continued excellent public relations campaign over the past few months.

 

[dyergram]

God bless you people advocating people being banned for stealing these codes. True heroes.