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[SuperBowser]

If the Tories wanted to purposefully underfund the NHS then they'd follow the example of Scotland and cut funding, not increase it. Even if part of the increases are absorbed by inflation, funding has still increased, that's an undeniable fact.
The way people talk though it's as if they think the reverse is true, that the evil Tories are cutting NHS funding and the saviour SNP are increasing funding.

Funding has not increased. It's all lies. The increases are completely absorbed by inflation.

In every department I have worked in for the past 5 years, I have only witnessed further cuts being made. In my current hospital, two wards are being closed down because there is no longer enough funding to sustain them. We still have to look after the same number of patients (which is growing). In the department before that, they had to make cuts of £300,000; the only way to achieve this was removing staff. Patient numbers would stay the same. Ask anybody that actually works in the NHS. We have not witnessed any increase in funding for a long time.

 

[Lagamorph]

Funding has not increased. It's all lies. The increases are completely absorbed by inflation.

In every department I have worked in for the past 5 years, I have only witnessed further cuts being made. In my current hospital, two wards are being closed down because there is no longer enough funding to sustain them. We still have to look after the same number of patients (which is growing). In the department before that, they had to make cuts of £300,000; the only way to achieve this was removing staff. Patient numbers would stay the same.

The increases aren't completely absorbed by inflation though, there's an increase of £11billion AFTER inflation is taken into account.

 

[Maledict]

Funding has not increased. It's all lies. The increases are completely absorbed by inflation.

In every department I have worked in for the past 5 years, I have only witnessed further cuts being made. In my current hospital, two wards are being closed down because there is no longer enough funding to sustain them. We still have to look after the same number of patients (which is growing). In the department before that, they had to make cuts of £300,000; the only way to achieve this was removing staff. Patient numbers would stay the same. Ask anybody that actually works in the NHS. We have not witnessed any increase in funding for a long time.

That is not a lie!

Whilst you may be correct re inflation numbers ( the figures seem to say the opposite), the fact is that the tories have not cut funding and have increased funding, When people say otherwise it discredits the entire discussion on health services and what's needed.

Most of my family works in the NHS. It's a disaster what's going on right now. But that's due to systemic underfunding for decades, horrendous PfI contracts and levels of management and bureaucracy that makes the civil service look agile.

 

[Maledict]

Gordon Brown significantly increased the budget when he was Chancellor. Those increases were unsustainable though.

If people want a better NHS it will require higher taxes. If people are ok with this then it can be saved.

This isn't actually true. The myth that the NHS is a black hole of spending isn't accurate - we spend LESS on health services than almost every other western nation as a % of our GDP. France, Germany, Spain, Australia, the USA - all spend much higher than us on health.

Our issue is what we prioritise with our tax revenue, and how it's spent - not that there isn't enough of it.

 

[pulsemyne]

I've been an NHS worker (non-clinical) for about four months. All I can say is that it's an absolute privilege to work for such an organisation and I'm very proud to be a part of it and contribute in some small way.

I can assure you that a lot of people in Britain thank you for working for such an organisation.
Unless, of course, that British person happens to be a certain cabinet minister who couldn't give a shit about you.

 

[Maledict]

More money is needed for the NHS but they don't run them well to begin with, any more money will go down the drain. It needs a drastic rethink, they need to stop the exploitation of the NHS by private companies and change it to private companies serving them on fair terms. The NHS is massive enough to throw it's weight around but the government has basically chopped it into little pieces that get bullied into submission and taken for a ride. Staffing needs to be kicked back a few decades instead of consultants messing it up. It doesn't work well enough. If the government can reform without gutting it then put money into it, I'm all for it but the former will never happen.

Definitely agree that the move to local commissioning groups really fucked the NHS up, along with GP commissioning as well. It's a move that goes against the basic rule of economics - economies of scale. It also introduced vast amounts more bureaucracy to support so many new boards, groups and processes. Plus GPs aren't commissioners, they are GPs - you can't, and shouldn't, expect someone to just be able to commission stuff because they use the end product. Commissioning is a separate discipline and profession one it's own, not something you can just bolt onto a job.

 

[Par Score]

All going according to plan then.

The Tories have been so blatant in their intentional undermining of the NHS, through budget freezes, costly reorganisations, etc. Then there's the "unintentional" damage done by the EU referendum, it's result, and the negative effects that's had on the immigrants who hold the NHS together.

It's a fucking disgrace and it breaks my heart. The NHS has done so much for me, and I love it so much. To see it done down like this is unconscionable.

 

[Symphonia]

Jeremy Cunt must be rubbing his hands with glee, the fucking cretin.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I'm sorry but there is a light year of difference between "Cut the NHS" and "Didn't increase the amount of cash it gets enough". And I do think it incredibly hypocritical of people to attack the Tories for England NHS, and yet the SNPs *actual* cuts of NHS funding gets ignored. And I am hardly a right wing poster!

This is one of the reasons labour is in such straights. It keeps campaigning on the NHS, but the evidence simply isn't there to persuade the voting public. The Tories have done enough to inoculate themselves against "Save the NHS" campaigns, and the arguments become way too technical for most people. Not increasing NHS funding enough due to the rising age of the population is not a soundbite nor a good campaign position.

I'm absolutely sure many in the conservative party would want to privatise the NHS. But I don't think it's a good campaign point, nor do I think the evidence is there to say they are doing that. It was Labour that increased the % of private work in the NHS the most after all, and it was Brown's bloody stupid PFI contracts that caused a big part of this problem.

If the Tories wanted to purposefully underfund the NHS then they'd follow the example of Scotland and cut funding, not increase it. Even if part of the increases are absorbed by inflation, funding has still increased, that's an undeniable fact.
The way people talk though it's as if they think the reverse is true, that the evil Tories are cutting NHS funding and the saviour SNP are increasing funding.

This isn't a straight line to defunding the NHS, it's about creating a narrative that the NHS is so bad at its job that people start to demand change.

And let's not do whataboutism and keep the SNP/Scottish NHS out of this. I'm focused solely on the British NHS.

Making claims like they are getting £11b funding is missing the point. That's a drop in the ocean and it's not per year, it's over the course of a decade. That's roughly £1b a year funding for a service where demand is increasing, prices are going up and the kinds of treatments needed for patients are getting more complex.

Add to this how social care has been eviscerated and there's even more pressure on the NHS to offer services to people who would have previously been taken care of in the community...

Care home shuttered, councils using social care money to fund other services, etc.

£1b isn't remotely close to what the NHS really needs and either the government know this, but still aren't funding it properly or are pretending there isn't a problem.

 

[SuperBowser]

The increases aren't completely absorbed by inflation though, there's an increase of £11billion AFTER inflation is taken into account.

No. This is 11 biillion pounds over several years. Simultaneously, the NHS has been asked to make "£20 billion of efficiency savings" over the same time period. There are cuts being made in every department and people are choosing to ignore it.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

The NHS receives overwhelming support for the British Public. I myself believe that the NHS is one of the greatest things about the UK. I am pissed off that it is handled by a series of seemingly inept series of handlers.

The NHS is a beast. There is no doubt about that and it is incredibly costly, but is the governments own decisions over the last two decades that have put it into it's current state. Projects to overhauled the NHS have little success, because they seems to fail to take into account the scope. They also seem to be hit by repeated issues of over administration. I read an article a while back that indicates that two years ago there was over 30 different bodies that had a hand in the budget and overhaul of the NHS.

Also the government had failed to follow through with the plan to help fund students that were training for medical degrees. Since then they have even increased the costs of studying at universities. They've tried and screwed over Junior Doctors....To top it all off, the hospitals are getting blamed for hiring private hospital staff to help deal with these issues.

I have nothing but respect for the members of the NHS, but I have nothing for the politicians that let this service and people down.

 

[samn]

The increases aren't completely absorbed by inflation though, there's an increase of £11billion AFTER inflation is taken into account.

Not nearly enough considering 1. increasing demand 2. the tens of billions worth of inefficiencies the Health and Social Care Act dumped on the service 3. the 'efficiency savings' mentioned above

The £11bn is utter spin and it's sad to see people falling for it.

 

[Audioboxer]

I am so glad the NHS is a devolved thing in Scotland after seeing how things are going in Englad.

Oils making a SLOW turn upwards again, so time to get Salmond out and rattling for indyref2!

Somewhat serious

But yeah, at least this is devolved. We're struggling up here as well but at least we're led by a Government unhappy about the struggles and showing signs of caring about the NHS. Not signs of contempt, victim blaming and a desperation to privatise.

No country should be able to call itself a "1st world country" unless health care is a priority and something which is free, or 90% free (I accept outright cosmetic stuff needs to be private in most cases). When people are unwell, injured, or dying, a country which you pay into should be there for you, and even if you can't play in, a population of tens if not hundreds of millions should have some basic empathy to be there for you medically.

To see healthcare as a luxury is a disgraceful way for humanity to view the planet/life.

And yes, Government can afford it and invest into it. It just chooses other things, such as a hard on for nuclear weapons and out of control spending on "war". To name one area which gets far more money invested in than healthcare. Then there is all the conflicts of interest with profiteering and business folk/pharmacy industry who sleep at night with one hell of a conscious on their shoulders.

 

[Maledict]

The SNP are worse than the tories on the NHS! The SNP CUT funding to the NHS - nevermind not increasing funding to match inflation or a changing population, the SNP straIsn't up *cut* NHS funding.

Just because they say nice things doesn't mean they get a free pass. Their promises on education and free prescriptions have to paid for from somewhere, and the SNP chose to cut the NHS to fund them.

(Personally think that's a bloody stupid decision, and funding free prescriptions over general NHS funding is the definition of choosing a sound bite over actual policy).

 

[Audioboxer]

The SNP are worse than the tories on the NHS! The SNP CUT funding to the NHS - nevermind not increasing funding to match inflation or a changing population, the SNP straIsn't up *cut* NHS funding.

Just because they say nice things doesn't mean they get a free pass. Their promises on education and free prescriptions have to paid for from somewhere, and the SNP chose to cut the NHS to fund them.

(Personally think that's a bloody stupid decision, and funding free prescriptions over general NHS funding is the definition of choosing a sound bite over actual policy).

I'm not talking about a free pass, but LOL at the idea our NHS is doing worse up here than South of the border.

I must of missed all those doctors strikes plaguing the streets of Edinburgh/Glasgow on my travels as well. Or the Red Cross mentioning any hospitals up here in the OT...

Or one of the biggest costs of insanity the Tories and Labour (majority of them anyway) pushed through, Trident.

 

[kmag]

The SNP are worse than the tories on the NHS! The SNP CUT funding to the NHS - nevermind not increasing funding to match inflation or a changing population, the SNP straIsn't up *cut* NHS funding.

Just because they say nice things doesn't mean they get a free pass. Their promises on education and free prescriptions have to paid for from somewhere, and the SNP chose to cut the NHS to fund them.

(Personally think that's a bloody stupid decision, and funding free prescriptions over general NHS funding is the definition of choosing a sound bite over actual policy).

They haven't cut social care funding so much so they get away with it more than Tories who's 'increase' is completely removed by the absolute gutting of social care in England which basically transfers the cost on to the NHS.

 

[FStop7]

Hey but at least you got rid of all those foreign savages sullying your white cliffs of Dover.

 

[hohoXD123]

Just to highlight my point about how few shits the Conservatives give:

Q: Things look pretty bad for the NHS. What are you going to do?



May says she does not accept the Red Cross’s claim there is a “humanitarian crisis”.
She pays tribute to the work of NHS staff.

But the government has put more money in.

Q: So you won’t be making a Commons statement tomorrow?

May says the NHS is facing problems with an ageing population. That is why the NHS has developed a plan. It is putting it into practice

.

She rejected the British Red Cross’s claim that there is a “humanitarian crisis” in the NHS. Asked about the problems in the NHS, she said:
There are pressures in the NHS, we see those pressures. We have an ageing population, this brings pressures, particularly in the interface between the health service and social care.

We have taken some immediate steps in relation to that issue but we are also looking to ensure best practice in the NHS and looking for a long-term solution to what has been a problem that has been ducked by government over the years.

The NHS is facing the pressures of the ageing population, that is why it is important that it is the NHS that has produced its five-year plan and is now putting that plan into practice.

She implied she would not be making a Commons statement on the NHS tomorrow, as Jeremy Corbyn has demanded.

From the Guardian based on a Sky News interview

 

[Audioboxer]

Just to highlight my point about how few shits the Conservatives give:

.



From the Guardian based on a Sky News interview

An ageing population which has paid into the system all their working years... Not to mention many of us are having retirement ages pushed further back in order to "compensate" for modern medicine. Many of us will probably be working till we are actually dead. I guess that's what a Tory government would want. How dare anyone expect some retirement years at the end to try and get some peace and relaxation before croaking it.

Stop blaming vulnerable old people and instead focus spending of budgets more wisely.

 

[SuperBowser]

Don't worry, newspapers will continue peddling the idiotic lies of the government. Despite all common sense and real life facts blowing in the face of them. We are the country with the 5th biggest economy in the world. We were once renowned for one of the greatest healthcare systems. We are now relying on a charity, The Red Cross, to do basic functions for our service. How can we have reached a crisis point like this from a simple ageing population?

I dare you to find a doctor or nurse that can genuinely say their department has not received significant cuts in the past 5 years. People should be worried.

 

[Auctopus]

Hunt is currently talking with MPs about the recent news. I'm watching a live-stream on Facebook.

He's currently under heavy attack and avoiding questions like a Pro. To be honest, the other MPs aren't being hard enough.

 

[StayDead]

Tories are sabotaging the NHS to make it so terrible people accept that the NHS needs to be privatised.

Why else is Jeremy (C) Hunt the Health Minister?

 

[Pancake Mix]

This should be a bigger deal than Brexit.

Wish there were more posts. Scotland's (8% of UK pop) NHS is more comfortable, but it's important to note the population differential makes the English (84% of UK pop) NHS much, much larger, therefore more people are affected by it being in humanitarian crisis.

It should also be noted that England is the only part of the UK without free prescriptions for most people. So at this point you can guess a fair amount of transfers to the devolved nations are actually NHS-related as you can probably tell. 16% of the population get a better universal health service because their devolved governments want it, whereas there is constant austerity in England (84% of pop) regarding this due to the Tories.

Not a nice situation at all. The Tories simply don't care.