Support NeoGAF

[Drifters]

So I've come to a point where I need a platform to vent as much as I need some advice from a different group of people.

For those who don't know (or care) I started working night shift last October at my current job in which I work in a NOC for a small ISP in Portland, Oregon. That said, back in December when it got super cold at night (where we saw our breath when we worked) I started to make a complaint to management that we needed heat at night since we are moving towards / are a 24x7x365 operation.

It took 6 weeks, a dozen e-mails and finally the involvement of our CEO to get them to turn on the damn heat at a cost of around $1,000 a month for 24x7 HVAC. Mind you this is for our swing shift guy, days weekend guy and nights weekend guy, so not just me.

--
So fast forward to this summer. Oregon is in the middle of a heat wave and at night it's barely cooling off into the 70's and the humidity has been super high lately too. I sent an e-mail back on the 21st to my manager and the HR director stating that we need to talk to the building management about making sure the AC is on in the work area at night because we don't want to have to open windows due to bugs getting in. (Worse things roaming around in DT Portland but whatever...) Anyways, my whole point in the e-mail was to have 1-to-1 parity with day shift workers of operating conditions of around 65-70 F in the office. Not unreasonable right? The HR director comes back and says she has spoke with the building management and the air "should" be on. She then proceeded to tell us that she was going to bring in a temperature gauge to "monitor" what the temp was in our work area. Huh? Alright...

So fast forward to this last night, it was 106 yesterday and the office was way to hot to bother to go into last night (so I worked remote-- I have AC at home...) and I sent another e-mail to my manager and HR director stating we need to get this fixed ASAP with the continual hot weather coming up. So at 3:30 in the AM this morning I get an e-mail back from said HR director asking me to take a picture of the temperature gauge so she can engage with building management to quote "...work on an action plan."

First of all, I'm insulted that apparently my word means nothing at this company and I'm apparently lying about how warm/hot it is where I work. Secondly, a cell phone picture of a temperature is going to convince them that they aren't turning on the air at night when the system is clearly automated and they will have logs of it. Thirdly, I'm in a bind of where I'm supposed to go with this / react to the e-mail from the HR director since clearly she has little to no motivation for getting this fixed.

So... TL;DR
Cold or Hot, shift workers should have the same heating and cooling that day shift workers have without having to put together a congressional bill to get action on said HVAC for said shift workers. My HR director is unresponsive and clearly the company doesn't give an F about this situation. What say you GAF?

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

Same work enviroment issues here.

Box Fans in the summer
Space Heaters in the winter.

That's how I deal.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

Wear a sweater when it gets cold. Wear shorts/tshirt when too hot. Stay hydrated.

If things are as extreme as you say, you might want to check OSHA working conditions. If they are being met, though, you might not have much you can do.

 

[Drifters]

Same work enviroment issues here.

Box Fans in the summer
Space Heaters in the winter.

That's how I deal.

So the funny thing, before the CEO got involved, my manager went and bought two space heaters. I LOL'ed so hard but whatever. One of the units broken within 4 days for continual use. Quality product.

Wear a sweater when it gets cold. Wear shorts/tshirt when too hot. Stay hydrated.

If things are as extreme as you say, you might want to check OSHA working conditions. If they are being met, though, you might not have much you can do.

I get that but honestly I shouldn't have to look up OSHA standards since this is a privately held company that makes enough money per quarter to pay for the HVAC. The issue I have is the tone in which my e-mails are being met with that are jump through these hoops and "maybe" we'll fix it.

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

So the funny thing, before the CEO got involved, my manager went and bought two space heaters. I LOL'ed so hard but whatever. One of the units broken within 4 days for continual use. Quality product.

They suck, no doubt about it.
But it keeps my knees warm. When you get old thats important!

 

[Grinchy]

Let every day at your terrible job fuel your will to find a new job.

 

[Woody Invincible]

Nearly all of the factory I work in has no cooling whatsoever. There are 10 ovens in the area that cook @ 1500 for hours on end. People have fans, but it doesn't do much of shit. It is horrible. Luckily, my office overlooking them has central air.

 

[CTLance]

Well, a picture says more than a thousand words, so while I certainly would call your HR person spineless I think they just want an easy way out and something to cover their asses with. If they slap down proof that conditions are unacceptable, nobody will be able to refute them. If they can only say that the night shift guys have been complaining, then resolving that shit will take ages of back-and-forth ("Well and my guys say that the AC is on, so there!").

(Worst case, they might even have to check the thermometer themselves!)

So don't attribute this to malice if you can easily explain it with laziness.

But yeah, pretty sad state of affairs. Don't give up, now.

 

[Drifters]

Well, a picture says more than a thousand words, so while I certainly would call your HR person spineless I think they just want an easy way out and something to cover their asses with. If they slap down proof that conditions are unacceptable, nobody will be able to refute them. If they can only say that the night shift guys have been complaining, then resolving that shit will take ages of back-and-forth ("Well and my guys say that the AC is on, so there!").

(Worst case, they might even have to check the thermometer themselves!)

So don't attribute this to malice if you can easily explain it with laziness.

But yeah, pretty sad state of affairs. Don't give up, now.

That's a good way of putting it. I guess my saltiness on the temp gauge is I could put it in the oven to raise the temp, under my armpit, in a closet to get the temperature raised to high levels but yeah I get your point. Laziness is a good word.

 

[C-Drive]

I don't see the problem asking for the picture - it's a way to show some form of proof.

But beyond that form of proof, you say you work for a NOC. Are there any sort of battery backups (with temp sensors) attached to the equipment there that can be remotely monitored? This could also showcase the temperatures it reaches. Those temps can't be good for the equipment - or is the equipment closet at another location?

 

[Apt101]

It seems like common decency to extend HVAC to the night workers. Maybe you should consider looking for another job while you work this one - it doesn't sound like they value you guys. Or maybe find the facilities guy and fight him.

 

[TAJ]

I go to a lot of banquet halls that only turn on the AC when the guests are there and let their employees and the vendors bake the rest of the time. Shit sucks.

 

[Drifters]

I don't see the problem asking for the picture - it's a way to show some form of proof.

But beyond that form of proof, you say you work for a NOC. Are there any sort of battery backups (with temp sensors) attached to the equipment there that can be remotely monitored? This could also showcase the temperatures it reaches. Those temps can't be good for the equipment - or is the equipment closet at another location?

Way of proof yes, however as I stated, their HVAC system is computerized and if we (the paying customer) are stating that we aren't getting the goods we're paying for, we should have some sort of written proof from the building vendors on which zone is heated/cooled and when it was operating. Giving them a picture of a temperature gauge is great since it does give proof but to me it is a "so what..." burden of proof.

It seems like common decency to extend HVAC to the night workers. Maybe you should consider looking for another job while you work this one - it doesn't sound like they value you guys. Or maybe find the facilities guy and fight him.

I'm actually working on figuring out who runs the HVAC in the building and interfacing with him directly. We'll see.

I go to a lot of banquet halls that only turn on the AC when the guests are there and let their employees and the vendors bake the rest of the time. Shit sucks.

Yeah that is just insane.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I control the HVAC system at my work for some reason (probably because it plugs into a wall and people think that means IT). We had people complaining about the temperature every afternoon even though the system was reporting the temp was where it should be. Turns out one of the afternoon workers was hanging their coat up over the sensor, making it assume it was warmer than it really was (and thus cutting the heat). I guess that wouldn't really explain the AC not coming on though.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Same issue but reversed.

For me it's too cold in the summer and too warm in the winter, our hvac system is too oversized

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Way of proof yes, however as I stated, their HVAC system is computerized and if we (the paying customer) are stating that we aren't getting the goods we're paying for, we should have some sort of written proof from the building vendors on which zone is heated/cooled and when it was operating. Giving them a picture of a temperature gauge is great since it does give proof but to me it is a "so what..." burden of proof.

It's a picture displaying that the air isn't on, which will immediately end any disagreement and get their tech person out. It isn't an onerous task and will provide everything your company needs to correct the issue. Yes, you saying "It's hot" should be enough, but the longer this goes back and forth the less money the building manager is spending, so he's going to drag it out if he can. A picture will end that.

I'm actually working on figuring out who runs the HVAC in the building and interfacing with him directly. We'll see.

Do not do this. Send a picture to HR and request a response on when they expect the issue to be corrected. If you don't get feedback within a day, get a hold of them again. If it's then not resolved, elevate the issue within your own company. Long story short, you are not the person holding the contract with the building manager, so he doesn't give a shit what you want.

 

[Drifters]

It's a picture displaying that the air isn't on, which will immediately end any disagreement and get their tech person out. It isn't an onerous task and will provide everything your company needs to correct the issue. Yes, you saying "It's hot" should be enough, but the longer this goes back and forth the less money the building manager is spending, so he's going to drag it out if he can. A picture will end that.



Do not do this. Send a picture to HR and request a response on when they expect the issue to be corrected. If you don't get feedback within a day, get a hold of them again. If it's then not resolved, elevate the issue within your own company. Long story short, you are not the person holding the contract with the building manager, so he doesn't give a shit what you want.

We'll see. I just sent HR the picture of it showing 75.8 degrees. I'll probably be more pointed if I get any type of "lazy" response back asking "when should I expect to hear back on this?" as it doesn't quite seem like a dick thing to say but it's still being pointed.

 

[AxeMan]

If people are in the building working 24/7 then heating and cooling should be on 24/7

 

[Drifters]

If people are in the building working 24/7 then heating and cooling should be on 24/7

Right? Silly to assume otherwise. Since this is my second go round on this, I can't wait until we get the cooling dialed in and then it will be fall and get cold again. :|

 

[Tapiozona]

Wait, so its 75.8 degrees in there and you're hot?

 

[Drifters]

Wait, so its 75.8 degrees in there and you're hot?

No no no, 75.8 after opening all the windows, fans etc. Without that, it's 85-90 degrees in the office area.

 

[Tapiozona]

No no no, 75.8 after opening all the windows, fans etc. Without that, it's 85-90 degrees in the office area.

Ok nevermind then. I was about to loose sympathy for a second there.

 

[Drifters]

Ok nevermind then. I was about to loose sympathy for a second there.

Yeah I even caveat that in the e-mail I sent her. I wouldn't have any sympathy for me either if I was complaining.

 

[quickwhips]

Take a picture send it in. Its not hard to document stuff if you want it fixed. I don't get the big deal with what your manager is asking for to show the HVAC guy...

 

[IISANDERII]

I can understand that she needs proof to present to building management. Suck it up and let it get hot one night and take the requested pic.

 

[acheron_xl]

Worst part about my job cleaning offices at night is no AC in the summer, little heating in the winter. I feel you. Shit's a drag.

 

[robochimp]

Don't be offended about the picture, a single picture is going to be much more effective than you description.

I also really doubt they have read outs or data from the HVAC system. It's probably set to turn on and turn off according to regular weather patterns.

 

[Drifters]

Take a picture send it in. Its not hard to document stuff if you want it fixed. I don't get the big deal with what your manager is asking for to show the HVAC guy...

I suppose not and it's done and sent so that's done. I guess my being chapped is because I've said now in 3-4 e-mails that it's hot in the office at night.

I can understand that she needs proof to present to building management. Suck it up and let it get hot one night and take the requested pic.

Yup.

Worst part about my job cleaning offices at night is no AC in the summer, little heating in the winter. I feel you. Shit's a drag.

Ugh. I remember working a summer job in a warehouse once with no fans and having to wear long pants and long sleeves due to the environment. I feel you.

Don't be offended about the picture, a single picture is going to be much more effective than you description.

I also really doubt they have read outs or data from the HVAC system. It's probably set to turn on and turn off according to regular weather patterns.

The HVAC system here manages a large portion of the LEC-to-LEC connections for Portland and a major hub for internet traffic on the west coast; I've seen their HVAC system and it is more advanced than a simple Trane system.

 

[Who]

I work in a warehouse loading boxes into semi trucks. It can get up to 100-120 degrees with No fans, no nothing, just a trusty gallon of water. I'm usually drenched through my shorts by the end of the shift. It is what it is ¯_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Drifters]

I work in a warehouse loading boxes into semi trucks. It can get up to 100-120 degrees with No fans, no nothing, just a trusty gallon of water. I'm usually drenched through my shorts by the end of the shift. It is what it is ¯_(&#12484_/¯

Truly an unsung hero. I don't know if I could move jobs to something like that.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

The HVAC system here manages a large portion of the LEC-to-LEC connections for Portland and a major hub for internet traffic on the west coast; I've seen their HVAC system and it is more advanced than a simple Trane system.

It depends. Sometimes facilities that have an energy management system still won't integrate every HVAC unit.

 

[Drifters]

It depends. Sometimes facilities that have an energy management system still won't integrate every HVAC unit.

Could be, however the battery backup units and generators are supposed to run this building (central air and all) for at least 48-72 hours in case of a cut to power. All that to say, I would hope there is some automation within the system since it would be silly to have to rely on human intervention.

 

[Hari Seldon]

You should couch your argument in that you don't think the equipment can take those conditions lol. Actually you might be pushing the limits for consumer grade equipment at 110.

 

[Drifters]

You should couch your argument in that you don't think the equipment can take those conditions lol. Actually you might be pushing the limits for consumer grade equipment at 110.

Yeah-- the IT doesn't give a shit about the computers we use. The lab literally right behind me is a cool 64 degrees all the time... however the white noise is deafening.

 

[Guhnmystro]

I work at a Ford assembly plant and there's no AC in this place, we've been hitting 96-98 degrees all week for 11 hour shifts, and I'm lucky, I don't work in paint where the ovens are running. You'll be fine.

You probably get paid better than I do, too.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Could be, however the battery backup units and generators are supposed to run this building (central air and all) for at least 48-72 hours in case of a cut to power. All that to say, I would hope there is some automation within the system since it would be silly to have to rely on human intervention.

I imagine any emergency backups would be focused on data centers or mission critical equipment, not general office spaces.

 

[neobiz]

Sounds like the typical shitty middle management that is trying to make name for themselves by claiming they saved the company X dollars a year. If you have the ceo involved I would politely tell them they shouldn't be dealing with this problem, it's above their pay scale.

 

[AndyD]

Well, a picture says more than a thousand words, so while I certainly would call your HR person spineless I think they just want an easy way out and something to cover their asses with..

I would start taking hourly pictures of the temperature gauge. If you can send them pictures over 3-4 days of consistent heat you both support your case to maintenance and build some evidence if they fail to act or retaliate.

 

[Drifters]

Sounds like the typical shitty middle management that is trying to make name for themselves by claiming they saved the company X dollars a year. If you have the ceo involved I would politely tell them they shouldn't be dealing with this problem, it's above their pay scale.

I would start taking hourly pictures of the temperature gauge. If you can send them pictures over 3-4 days of consistent heat you both support your case to maintenance and build some evidence if they fail to act or retaliate.

Yeah-- the "free masons" as I call them at our company is part of the "Directors" management which of course report to the CEO. They don't want to spend any more time or money on shit they don't deem "worthy" of their time.

A quick update, our HR person has requested our night weekend guy to take pictures every 2 hours to get an idea of how hot it's getting. Either way, I suppose it is progress.

 

[ReAxion]

I work in a warehouse loading boxes into semi trucks. It can get up to 100-120 degrees with No fans, no nothing, just a trusty gallon of water. I'm usually drenched through my shorts by the end of the shift. It is what it is ¯_(&#12484_/¯

Sometimes I have nostalgia for when I did this.