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I am meeting a Trump supporter this week. Help.

L

Lord Thrappleper The 49th

Member
To keep a long story short, a Trumper has come to my country and my friend (who is clueless of politics) wants me to meet them.
I would like specific evidence to use to counter argue this man. I've always accepted his way is wrong on a moral level. But I need evidence of facts as to why Trump is bad. Also specifically as to why muslims are not destroying america.

I know the sane move is to not interact with him. I know nothing will come of it. But nevertheless I need to try. For more information this guy is very anti-muslim, pro-trump, anti-clinton. He deserves to be shamed and made unwelcome here.


EDIT: I recieved permission to share more of the story from my friend.

Ok after discussing it with my friend (who gave her consent to make the thread to begin with) I can reveal a little more.

This man publically calls for the mass genocide of muslims and to put women back in the kitchen like the good ol' days.
However he is a focused individual, always working hard.

It is for this reason my 20yo friend has fallen in love with him. As he is the exact opposite of a bad boyfriend she broke up with last year.
I am all for her finding love, and I care very deeply for her. But this union is a mistake, but she's too far gone. She is a good honest decent person. Unable to hate or be spiteful.

This man is the bane of society. A literal walking nazi. I cannot be friends with him. I will not. There is no nice person who thinks slavery was good and shame on anyone who thinks there is.

She wants me to meet him to prove he is a good person. I will out of respect for her. But hearing about him from her I know he will go on about things I object morally. She is too in love to disagree with him.

I know Trump is the worst thing in modern memory. I know he's a crook and a liar. A tax dodger, a sexist, a racist, and idiot. These are the facts, I know these.
When I made the thread it was in the knowledge that this conversation would pan out:

Him: 'those muslims eh. Killing is their way.'
Me: 'i think your talking about extremists. Majority of muslims are peaceful people.'
Him: who told you that? Your fake news media?'
Me: well 1, i know muslims. And 2 (insert fact reference matierial here) if you wanna check it out yourself, or whatever.


Don't get me wrong, this man is my moral enemy. But I will keep the peace for my friend. I want him to spout his nonsense so that I can casually rebuke him. In this way it will show him that other cultures don't put up with his shit.

As far as I'm concerned, and this is the part my friend doesnt know about. 2 outcomes will happen. First she will see just how hateful and nasty he is. Secondly i will confirm that i had misjudged my friend, and may have to end seeing her. Either way the outcome is why i will meet him.

I know you shouldnt judge somebody by their political beliefs, but genocide? Slavery? Racism? Sexism? I refuse to be anything but contempt to hostile to an individual who wears these words like a badge of honour.
 
L

Lurk

Banned
could just talk like actual people instead of having to debate those that have different views?

Why do you feel it necessary to go on the political attack/debate stance straight away?
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
I would like specific evidence to use to counter argue this man.
Click to expand...

The evidence to counter Trumps stances on so many things is very well documented and supporters don't seem to care.

He's admitted to things that his supporters, when polled, we split as to whether he'd actually done them.

When he'd literally said he had.

Evidence is wasted on them.

Edit: equally, what Lurk said
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
What are you going to do? Print out a list of arguments and make him read it?

If you want to talk politics with this person, do so. But to prepare an argument for someone random that is visiting your country seems a bit overkill.

Your goal of making him feel shamed or unwelcome is a bit strange and will not have your desired effect anyway. The only think you will do is pat yourself on the back for creating a fight.
 
K

KibblesBits

Member
Lord Thrappleper The 49th said:
To keep a long story short, a Trumper has come to my country and my friend (who is clueless of politics) wants me to meet them.
I would like specific evidence to use to counter argue this man. I've always accepted his way is wrong on a moral level. But I need evidence of facts as to why Trump is bad. Also specifically as to why muslims are not destroying america.

I know the sane move is to not interact with him. I know nothing will come of it. But nevertheless I need to try. For more information this guy is very anti-muslim, pro-trump, anti-clinton. He deserves to be shamed and made unwelcome here.
Click to expand...

Or you could just say Good Day Sir and be about your way. I'd say it's much more important to try to educate your direct friend instead of THEIR friend on the subject. Your close friend is still WORTH reaching. You don't even know this rando coming and want to start a battle without securing at the very least some assurance that your friend won't take THEIR side. :/
 
D

Downhome

Member
So confusing. So a random Trump supporter is going to your country? How do you or your friend know them? Are they coming there to debate you? If not, setting something up where you go in to debate/attack them sure isn't going to change their mind and will only embolden them. It would do it for anyone of any belief.

If it's a friend of some sort then just act like a human being and be nice and kind and let the cards fall where they may. Heck, if it's just a stranger then treat them like a human being without any preconceived notions as well. Why even go in planning to debate politics at all? More information is needed. I don't get this at all.
 
S

snausagesUK

Member
I don't get why you need to butt heads with this guy.

If I tried to reason with every brexit-supporter I met I would just become very bitter and isolated.
 
C

Conciliator

Banned
dude, as someone in the American south, I'm telling you, don't bother.

EDIT: just for clarification not saying to not talk to him or only make frowny faces or enact social vengeance on him or some shit, but with the Trump stuff, really, there's no point. You disagree on reality.
 
V

Ventilaator

Banned
The easy 'evidence' against Trump is just watching any clip of him talking about anything.

If that doesn't work, more data isn't going to help either.
 
K

Kthulhu

Member
Why even bother engaging with him? Nothing is gained from it.

It'd be one thing if he brought up his politics himself, but going up to a person you don't know and calling out their political beliefs is a surefire way for him to be on the defensive and not listen to you.

Your best bet is to be calm and non-confrontational and calmly and logically explain why he is wrong in his beliefs. If he is still unwilling to at least see things your way, then you should just give up.

Odds are that if they are still a die-hard supporter after all that's happened, then basically nothing you can say or do will change that.
 
M

:Motorbass

Member
something like this?

2LD7BGL.png


stop sleeping in beds if you want to live
 
D

Doodis

Member
Here's a thought: just listen to him. You don't need to argue or get any points across. That rarely works anyway.
 
K

Kthulhu

Member
The best I've ever gotten arguing with a republican has been getting them not to hate liberals like they used to.
 
T

Triggerhappytel

Member
Maybe have a few facts to hand but don't engage in politics unless it comes up? You can talk about other stuff and try to be civil. He might even be a nice person, aside from his political beliefs. However, I'm sure you can find several websites that do fact-checking about his bullshit to have some info learned and ready to go if it comes up. If he's full on #fakenews crazy just say that you can't engage with someone like this and leave.
 
G

g11

Member
1. You're not going to convince him he's wrong, even with facts, so why bother?
2. Don't outsource your research. If you truly feel the person needs to be shamed, take the minimal effort necessary to have the facts to refute him yourself. Otherwise you're just puppeting something you heard from someone else which is probably exactly what he'll be doing too.
3. Why not just avoid the topic of politics altogether unless they breach it? A good friend of mine is a Trump supporter and we make it work by just not discussing politics. He'll never convince me Trump is right and I'll probably never convince him Trump is a lying, opportunistic, venal, egotistic snake oil salesman bigot with a massive inferiority complex.
 
S

Shadybiz

Member
Yeah you're not going to have any luck with that.

If you have to meet him, have a beer and try not to get into politics. ....It's what I do with my dad nowadays.
 
M

MC Safety

Member
Is it possible to meet someone without starting a fight over politics?

Maybe sit down with a pad and pencil and create a checklist of non-political topics you can bring up at your first meeting?

Lord Thrappleper The 49th said:
He deserves to be shamed and made unwelcome here.
Click to expand...

I'll just go out on a limb and suggest neither of you will enjoy your encounter. For your sake, and for his, don't bother.
 
R

RulkezX

Member
What a post.

Can only imagine both your friend and the visiting friend are going to end up thinking you're a bit of a twat. Why pick a fight with someone you don't know and will probably never see again
 
L

Lord Thrappleper The 49th

Member
Mine, my friends, and this mans reasons are irrelevant. Suffice to say it is happening and i'm resolved to do this.

But to those who say just treat him with kindness. I refuse to show any respect when he publically advocates for the mass genocide of muslims on his facebook. Would any of you, if forced to interact with him?
 
Z

Zen_Arcade

Banned
You sound like a miserable person to be around OP. My advice would be to get your friend to find someone else to lead his friend around for him, because you obviously can't handle it.
 
L

Lurk

Banned
Lord Thrappleper The 49th said:
Mine, my friends, and this mans reasons are irrelevant. Suffice to say it is happening and i'm resolved to do this.

But to those who say just treat him with kindness. I refuse to show any respect when he publically advocates for the mass genocide of muslims on his facebook. Would any of you, if forced to interact with him?
Click to expand...

Here's a thought, don't meet him? You don't have to do anything.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Lord Thrappleper The 49th said:
Mine, my friends, and this mans reasons are irrelevant. Suffice to say it is happening and i'm resolved to do this.

But to those who say just treat him with kindness. I refuse to show any respect when he publically advocates for the mass genocide of muslims on his facebook. Would any of you, if forced to interact with him?
Click to expand...

Yes, because lowering myself to prove some kind of point is not going to make me a better person or make me feel better about myself.
 
D

DogDude

Member
You're going to come off like a confrontational idiot and come off looking incredibly stupid no matter how well you "research". If he brings stuff up, fine. Otherwise I question how you get through life.
 
K

Kthulhu

Member
Lord Thrappleper The 49th said:
Mine, my friends, and this mans reasons are irrelevant. Suffice to say it is happening and i'm resolved to do this.

But to those who say just treat him with kindness. I refuse to show any respect when he publically advocates for the mass genocide of muslims on his facebook. Would any of you, if forced to interact with him?
Click to expand...

If that's the context. Then just avoid him if possible.

g11 said:
1. You're not going to convince him he's wrong, even with facts, so why bother?
2. Don't outsource your research. If you truly feel the person needs to be shamed, take the minimal effort necessary to have the facts to refute him yourself. Otherwise you're just puppeting something you heard from someone else which is probably exactly what he'll be doing too.
3. Why not just avoid the topic of politics altogether unless they breach it? A good friend of mine is a Trump supporter and we make it work by just not discussing politics. He'll never convince me Trump is right and I'll probably never convince him Trump is a lying, opportunistic, venal, egotistic snake oil salesman bigot with a massive inferiority complex.
Click to expand...

This is unfortunately necessary if you live in a heavy Republican area unless you want to be a shut-in.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
Lord Thrappleper The 49th said:
Mine, my friends, and this mans reasons are irrelevant. Suffice to say it is happening and i'm resolved to do this.

But to those who say just treat him with kindness. I refuse to show any respect when he publically advocates for the mass genocide of muslims on his facebook. Would any of you, if forced to interact with him?
Click to expand...
Why are you forced to interact with him? Just say to your friend: I don't know this person, I see no reason to meet him. Nobody is forcing you.
 
P

Patryn

Member
Lord Thrappleper The 49th said:
Mine, my friends, and this mans reasons are irrelevant. Suffice to say it is happening and i'm resolved to do this.

But to those who say just treat him with kindness. I refuse to show any respect when he publically advocates for the mass genocide of muslims on his facebook. Would any of you, if forced to interact with him?
Click to expand...

All you're going to accomplish is solidifying his beliefs even further and making him feel even more right and jingoistic. Basically, you're going to do more harm than good, especially if you just come out and attack him.
 
tkscz

tkscz

Member
Lord Thrappleper The 49th said:
To keep a long story short, a Trumper has come to my country and my friend (who is clueless of politics) wants me to meet them.
I would like specific evidence to use to counter argue this man. I've always accepted his way is wrong on a moral level. But I need evidence of facts as to why Trump is bad. Also specifically as to why muslims are not destroying america.

I know the sane move is to not interact with him. I know nothing will come of it. But nevertheless I need to try. For more information this guy is very anti-muslim, pro-trump, anti-clinton. He deserves to be shamed and made unwelcome here.
Click to expand...

Dude, you're the only one coming off as the bad person here. Your first thought is to immediately shame someone you don't know anything about and then yell at him why Trump is bad. How about just talking to him like a person. Being immediately hostile usually only makes things worse, not better. You want to prove to him Trump is wrong? Don't make him seem like he's a serial killer, and maybe he won't double down.

By He I mean the guy and not Trump.
 
S

snausagesUK

Member
OP, don't feel like you must carry this burden of enlightening the unenlightened all the time.

Get on with your own shit and forget about it.
 
A

AgentLampshade

Member
If someone started a conversation by attacking my beliefs, I'd refuse to listen out of spite. If the subject is brought up in a rational manner, say a response to something I said, then fair enough, it's on me for bringing it up. I get it, many Trump supporters are ignorant assholes, but confronting people for no reason rarely leads to change. If they share your opinion on a few unrelated things however, and think you're generally alright, they'll listen to what you have to say. If you can't do that, I'm afraid you don't come across much better than them.
 
L

Lebron

Member
So basically, you want to do to him what you're going to accuse him of wanting to do.

That sounds like a genius idea
 
P

Phrozenflame500

Member
Just don't talk about politics and get it over with. Trying to make a scene will just make you look like the bad guy whatever your motivations are.
 
S

SlipperyMoose

Member
I H8 Memes said:
A conservatives wont believe in anything they dont like the sound of. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

Wow really. We are just going to have a blanket statement about all conservatives. There are a lot of people living in echo chambers now days it seems.


This whole thread seems like an odd approach to an odd concept. They are a person that you happen to disagree with not some alien. If you insist all talking about politics then treat them like a normal person and have a normal discussion. Treat each other like human beings and build respect for one another.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I swear we had another thread where someone was trying to crowdsource evidence to back up something they wanted to say to another person.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
Trojita said:
I swear we had another thread where someone was trying to crowdsource evidence to back up something they wanted to say to another person.
Click to expand...
Kind of strange to ask strangers to put together their debate. If you are convinced you are right... shouldn't they already know why?
 
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