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[Panajev2001a]

Making games is complex... especially dealing with all the intricacies console programming presents.

Although they are closed platforms you tend to have more exposure to quirks and bugs of the hardware and let's face it harnessing today's consoles with tight deadlines and makign sure all the content is finished and it is of a high enough quality we see more and more games that let bugs slip through the Q&A process.

It is not easy to find them even with lots of play-testing sometimes.

What will happen with Next-Generation consoles ?

This is an area that is starting to worry me.

 

[snapty00]

I think, sooner or later, someone out there is going to put together a point-click-and-script package for making 3D games -- something even simpler than Visual Basic to make 3D games quickly. It's obviously going to be a while before something like this can be used professionally, but I think it's GOING to happen eventually.

At that time, a team for a medium-budget game might only need three key people: an artist, a sound composer, and a scriptor.

 

[Vlad]

I've been thinking the same thing lately, myself. It's really always been a problem in the PC market, where the relative ease of patching has really allowed developers to not test as well as they probably should have, but I am starting to see more bugs and such sneak their way into console games recently. Just off the top of my head, I had Metroid Prime completely crash on me twice, and there were several game-restart-requiring bugs in Prince of Persia: SoT, the worst of which was when one of the mirrors that you move around to get the last sword got stuck in a wall, making the puzzle unsolvable and requiring a restart of the game. Unfortunately, since there was no recent save point, this meant that I had to sit through the horribly long (and unskippable, and boring) part with the prince and Farrah talking in the dark, then the baths part, then finally back to where I was. There were also several parts where Farrah would wander off a ledge or something and kill herself, making for an instant restart.

I've seen more mention of little bugs like that in reviews for console games recently, so I think that your point is pretty valid...

 

[goodcow]

I think, sooner or later, someone out there is going to put together a point-click-and-script package for making 3D games -- something even simpler than Visual Basic to make 3D games quickly. It's obviously going to be a while before something like this can be used professionally, but I think it's GOING to happen eventually.

At that time, a team for a medium-budget game might only need three key people: an artist, a sound composer, and a scriptor.

Such a game will be shit.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Such a game will be shit.

Yeah, all SCUMM based games were worth SHIT!...


Oh wait .


Seriously, three people is not enough for good music and good art anyway .

 

[snapty00]

Seriously, three people is not enough for good music and good art anyway .

I totally don't agree. If they had a mechanism to make games THAT easily, I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that just three people could make a great game with good music and good art.

 

[teepo]

being a veteran pc gamer... games have been less and less buggy then ever before.

 

[Wario64]

This is why console gaming needs to adopt patches to get games fixed. Allow people to connect online and download game fixes for free

I encountered bugs in GTA Vice City, Prince of Persia and Beyond Good and Evil that forced me to start all over to the beginning. And it wasn't nice for Vice City cause the bug I encountered was before you trigger the last mission, and I wasn't able to advance through the game or be able to do stuff like rampages or change clothing. Man that shit pissed me off.

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is why console gaming needs to adopt patches to get games fixed. Allow people to connect online and download game fixes for free

I encountered bugs in GTA Vice City, Prince of Persia and Beyond Good and Evil that forced me to start all over to the beginning. And it wasn't nice for Vice City cause the bug I encountered was before you trigger the last mission, and I wasn't able to advance through the game or be able to do stuff like rampages or change clothing. Man that shit pissed me off.

You make a good argument.

 

[snapty00]

You could just as easily argue, though, that providing an easy route for patches would just make developers more complacent to begin with.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I totally don't agree. If they had a mechanism to make games THAT easily, I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that just three people could make a great game with good music and good art.

I disagree: one artist would take forever to finish enough material for a finsihed game sof decent complexity.

Monkey Island 2 was not made by a team of 3 people.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You could just as easily argue, though, that providing an easy route for patches would just make developers more complacent to begin with.

There is not much we can do.

Bugs creeped in anyway.

You have all three platforms with several high profile games plagued by bugs in one form or another (some worse than others).

We ought to give people a way of getting those bugs fixed.

 

[snapty00]

There is not much we can do.

Bugs creeped in anyway.

You have all three platforms with several high profile games plagued by bugs in one form or another (some worse than others).

We ought to give people a way of getting those bugs fixed.

But then there'll be more bugs that need fixing in the first place. And if the bug were a fundamental part of the game, it probably wouldn't be fixed, anyway.

 

[Ranger X]

The real problem is the over-the-top capitalist way of thinking that game compagnies seems to adopt more and more.

Costs of making a game is getting higher and higher. Quality still have to be there but they wanna take no fucking risk so they cut through budgets. It's the "make more with less cash" phenomenon.
Games will probably get "buggier". One of the first place they cut the budgets in the making of games is of course the quality assurance departments.
And until someone someday could prove that bugs in a game really did affect it's sales, they will cut budgets and cut and cut and cut.

 

[johnjohnson]

Sooner or later it will be common practice to release one or two (or more) patches for a game through the online services of the console manufacturers. A bit like the updates for some Xbox Live games or the download orgies for Final Fantasy XI. The more the tecnology advances the more it will be difficult to deliver a bugfree piece of software. You could spend months and months in bugfixing, but if you want to live you have to deliver something sooner or later. And if there are some minor bugs you can fix them later.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

I am more concerned with the need to produce "NEXT GEN VISUALS POLISH" affecting gameplay and the resources to do everything else then I am with a couple of bugs -I haven't played any majorly buggy console title yet in the last 2-3 years. Maybe its the title I pick but so far so good. However patchy visuals / polish is A MASSIVE problem. Too many games look like crap and I personally can't wait for next gen.

 

[Ranger X]

Well, maybe it's because i work in QA but damn, i'm always falling on big bugs with games this gen.

 

[Eggo]

I think Alien Hominid is done by a team of 3 people, and most of us are excited about it. Of course, this is the exception to the rule.

The reason you're seeing more bugs is the complexity/scale of modern games. Large environments are going to have mapholes. A game with full Xbox Live support introduces a bunch of headaches for testing (friend requests, voice messages, silent sign-in, different controller ports, etc.). That's just the way it's going to be, the larger games get, the more chances of something slipping through. Also remember that QA may find some hideous bugs, but that doesn't mean they will necessarily be fixed in the final product.

 

[cybamerc]

You have all three platforms with several high profile games plagued by bugs in one form or another (some worse than others).

This is true. And I do think console makers are going to have to allow patches for online titles at least. But you can't deny that allowing patches is just asking for trouble. Look at Xbox. M$ promised that they would never allow patches on the Xbox. Xbox Live comes out and they conveniently forget about that. The result is that many Xbox games today are being patched. Of course from what I've read M$ QA has also allowed some rather buggy games to be released.

 

[Brofist]

being a veteran pc gamer... games have been less and less buggy then ever before.

it's true..at one time it seemed like every other PC game needed to be patched the day after released because of major bugs.

But I also agree that console games seem to be buggier than ever.

 

[Chittagong]

This is true. And I do think console makers are going to have to allow patches for online titles at least. But you can't deny that allowing patches is just asking for trouble. Look at Xbox. M$ promised that they would never allow patches on the Xbox. Xbox Live comes out and they conveniently forget about that. The result is that many Xbox games today are being patched. Of course from what I've read M$ QA has also allowed some rather buggy games to be released.

MS probably mostly compares the code with their game requirement document, checks out the testing reports, then waives a lot of bugs if they aren't severe A class and the developer is happy to leave them in. No such thing as bugfree game.

 

[snaildog]

I'm in support of patches - I don't usually buy games as soon as they come out anyway. Most major bugs would probably be fixed in a few weeks.

 

[Vark]

I think, sooner or later, someone out there is going to put together a point-click-and-script package for making 3D games -- something even simpler than Visual Basic to make 3D games quickly. It's obviously going to be a while before something like this can be used professionally, but I think it's GOING to happen eventually.

http://www.virtools.com/applications/index.asp

It's more useful for prototyping right now but you can certainly make a full game with it. It's an real time engine / editor that functions similar to the old Build3d editors where you can run around in the game and make changes in real time without having to recompile.

 

[epmode]

This is why console gaming needs to adopt patches to get games fixed. Allow people to connect online and download game fixes for free

i completely agree with this news. the only problem is with gamers that don't have broadband or even regular internet access. it might be a good idea to include a monthly bugfix dvd with official videogame magazines. along with the free online updates, of course.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I think the next batch of consoles shouldn't really focus on 'complex' games as I think that games are complex enough as-is for the most part. I just want better performance, more aesthetic polish and more fleshed out gameplay. Arcade games provided the first two elements exclusively. Now that they're dead, we have nothing to compare console games to other than what's on the PC.

Consoles games should never be buggy IMO. They probably wouldn't be if every publisher adhered to the Id 'It's done when it's done...' philosophy.

 

[Vark]

They probably wouldn't be if every publisher adhered to the Id 'It's done when it's done...' philosophy.

Id's a developer, not a publisher. And considering they're loaded with cash and are highly influential they get certain perks that 99% of other dev's don't get (ie, they can take their time with it).

In a perfect world with no deadlines or cash flow issues, you'd see bug free games.

 

[Synbios459]

Speaking of bugs, what was the infamous glitch in PoP:TSoT that was talked about in the Xbox version that had alot of people having to restart? I think it had something to do with Farreh hitting a switch, but I'm not sure. Anywhoo, I completed the Xbox version with no problems so I was lucky

 

[etiolate]

Buy a Nintendo.

 

[cvxfreak]

Nintendo's had its fair share of glitches before. Pokemon Red and Blue were stacked with them. Luckily Nintendo's improved, because this year they delayed Kirby into the next fiscal year to fix a small bug.

I honestly hope more game testers are hired, because I'd be VERY pissed off if I ran into a bad glitch. I also hope more developers learn to delay their games if bugs need fixing i.e. Vice City and GTAIII.

 

[cybamerc]

No such thing as bugfree game.

Certainly, but some games are buggier than others, or at least have more severe bugs.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

The real problem is the over-the-top capitalist way of thinking that game compagnies seems to adopt more and more.

Costs of making a game is getting higher and higher. Quality still have to be there but they wanna take no fucking risk so they cut through budgets. It's the "make more with less cash" phenomenon.
Games will probably get "buggier". One of the first place they cut the budgets in the making of games is of course the quality assurance departments.
And until someone someday could prove that bugs in a game really did affect it's sales, they will cut budgets and cut and cut and cut.

Absolutely: Nintendo, MS and Sony are responsible for creating an environment where buggy games are not tolerated. These comanies are in the profit-maximization business; games run a distant second. So while Sony is more than happy to tell Metal Slug 3 to fuck off, they couldn't care less how many bugs are in Vice City.

 

[NohWun]

Making games is complex...
... we see more and more games that let bugs slip through the Q&A process.
... This is an area that is starting to worry me.

Well, let me put your worries to rest:

Future games will have more bugs. Count on it.