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[NecrosaroIII]

I played through FFXIV about 2 years ago and now I'm working my way through DQX thanks to the very awesome fan translation. It is interesting to me that these are both multiplayer games that were designed to be played mostly single-player, though the games go about this in very different ways.

FFXIV's Approach
FFXIV's story is told linearly for the most part. While there are portions where you have some choice in what to tackle first, these sections are relatively short with no impact on the story. Most of the time you can handle quests by yourself. Eventually, you unlock a companion chocobo which serves as a party member that can fit any role.

Duties are the only time where you're forced to party with people and even then it's a very detached affair. You're sorted into parties based on your role. HOWEVER, this is changing. The developers have been working on making it so you can do most duties with AI party members. This started with Shadowbringers but they've since gone back and made it so you can do it for earlier dungeons as well. The gameplay is so streamlined that if you know your role then you should be able to handle whatever the game throws at you without much coordination. Only Savage content really requires contact with other players. In my 600 hours playing, I don't think I ever said anything to another player.

DQX's Approach
DQX is even more anti-social than FFXIV is. First and foremost, the game is a Dragon Quest game. They made zero concessions to change the formula to being an online game, other than setting battles on an invisible timer like ATB. I've finished Ver1 and there was NO reason to party. At any town, there is a pub where you can recruit AI comrades (basically offline players). You can't control them directly, but you can set their behavior through the Tactics Menu, so it ends up feeling like DQIV NES. Where the multiplayer content really comes through is in slice of life content like housing or the market place. But otherwise this is a single player DQ that had multiplayer components on top of it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Seems like they are following the FFXI "Trusts" approach which in turn led to the game becoming more of a Online Single Player RPG. Arguably you only interact with players for the dungeon/boss/raid "tourist attractions" which if you follow mechanics they may as well just be bots.

Which is why for XIV once you roll through the story you can shelf it and play something else.

And yeah it's changing. I am just doing duty support so all the loot is mine and I don't have to roll for it. Only benefit to running with a party now is maybe a fast clear. But most of the dungeons I can clear in like 5 minutes with a optimized Blue Mage skillset.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Sounds really unambitious.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Sounds really unambitious.

Actually, it is. The way I think about it, basically they're making longform narrative games that are ongoing.

 

[cormack12]

I really liked being part of a guild with a main on an MMORPG but trying to assemble PUGS with a good synergy could be a pain in the ass. And then you have class deficiencies at a realm or faction level.

I don't think there is an easy way to resolve it and keep finely tuned encounters.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Actually, it is. The way I think about it, basically they're making longform narrative games that are ongoing.

When God is welcoming them at the pearly gates the conversation will go like this...

God: "You made a successful GAAS title that brought people together. Excellent my son. Tell me, how did you follow my teachings and build community and togetherness?"

Dev: "Actually, we didn't. We made a really antisocial GAAS game".

God: "Go to hell, prick."

 

[NecrosaroIII]

I really liked being part of a guild with a main on an MMORPG but trying to assemble PUGS with a good synergy could be a pain in the ass. And then you have class deficiencies at a realm or faction level.

I don't think there is an easy way to resolve it and keep finely tuned encounters.

I appreciate the way that FFXIV does it where it forces players to be in specific roles. It also incentives players to help newer players.

DQX skews this by basically saying there are no roles. It's just a DQ lol

 

[lughnasadh123]

In my vast MMO experience, usually the people yelling the loudest wanting forced grouping are the ones least wanting to be grouped with others. Thankfully the devs over the decades are very aware just how much of a shitter players can be allowing more casual options for those wanting it. Thank the gods.

 

[Aenima]

Thats why i enjoyed FFXIV so much. I could do all the quests at my own pace without need to relly on others. Then for dungeons and raids the game also has a great matchmaking that in a party of 4 you are always forced to take 1 healer, 1 tank and 2 DPS class of characters, and the game does this by matchmaking without the need to shout LFG in the chat like i had to do when i played WoW.

The community is amazing, if i told my party it was my 1st time in the dungeon, there was always someone willing to explain the boss mechanics and what i should focus on.

I actually miss my time in there but i cant justify paying a montly fee just to keep my house from being wiped out and when thers so many other games in my backlog i still want to play. For ppl that just want to focus in one game for a very long time, its a great game.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Thats why i enjoyed FFXIV so much. I could do all the quests at my own pace without need to relly on others. Then for dungeons and raids the game also has a great matchmaking that in a party of 4 you are always forced to take 1 healer, 1 tank and 2 DPS class of characters, and the game does this by matchmaking without the need to shout LFG in the chat like i had to do when i played WoW.

The community is amazing, if i told my party it was my 1st time in the dungeon, there was always someone willing to explain the boss mechanics and what i should focus on.

I actually miss my time in there but i cant justify paying a montly fee just to keep my house from being wiped out and when thers so many other games in my backlog i still want to play. For ppl that just want to focus in one game for a very long time, its a great game.

Yup, I enjoy my time with FFXIV quite a bit, and I'm enjoying my time with DQX as well. Say what you will about SQ, at least their MMOs are good

 

[rubik's dude]

It's a spectrum. On the one hand you have FFXIV, and on the other you have classic FFXI, which was an incredibly social/group dependent MMO. Every little thing in XI required a group, which was great when the game was at the height of its popularity.

However, when the population of an MMO dwindles, how are people supposed to complete group content? Especially if everything is gated by group content. It becomes difficult, if not impossible, for newer players to do anything. So you need something like XI's "Trust" system, so that progress can always be made, regardless of the population size. Time was also a factor. Because everything required a group, it took so much time to accomplish anything in XI.

XIV took it too far in the single player direction and XI classic had the opposite problem, which they ended up having to course-correct later in its life. Currently, WoW classic is a good balance between the two. You can level up solo if you want, or you can do somewhat challenging dungeons with people.

 

[Meicyn]

XIV took it too far in the single player direction

Yep, this is why I quit playing. Endwalker has the least amount of multiplayer content to date out of any expansion they’ve made. It didn’t help that the single player story content post-Endwalker has been the least interesting stuff they’ve ever had IMO. When you rely on your narrative to do the heavy lifting for your subscription game, it better deliver… and frankly, it currently doesn’t. Even some of the diehard dedicated FFXIV streamers have moved on to play other games, because they have literally nothing to do in-game.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I love it.

A living world filled with other people that you can play solo, if you want to.

 

[March Climber]

The developers have been working on making it so you can do most duties with AI party members. This started with Shadowbringers but they've since gone back and made it so you can do it for earlier dungeons as well. The gameplay is so streamlined that if you know your role then you should be able to handle whatever the game throws at you without much coordination. Only Savage content really requires contact with other players. In my 600 hours playing, I don't think I ever said anything to another player.

Much like a group-finder feature, to me this is a forward-thinking move to make. Guild Wars 1 did the same thing at it's peak and ESO just recently did it, adding NPC companion(s), assumedly because of two things:

1) Their developers probably knew that the game's playerbase would eventually decline. Making an MMO less and less self reliant cuts it off at the knees once the playerbase starts to dwindle, as casual players will not use other avenues like forums, chatting apps(discord), etc. to LFG when...

2) The in-game playerbase decides to not hang out in certain unpopular zones/areas, which makes it a nightmare for anyone simply trying to beat a story campaign or experience all of that area has to offer. This happened more and more in MMOs and was extremely noticeable in an instanced MMO like Guild Wars, where you pretty much had to sit around and wait in towns during busy hours hoping someone would finally stop by so that you both could group up.

This is why I've always preferred the Dot Hack-style "Lobby MMOs" out there, like Vindictus, PSO 1, Warframe, and more recently Wayfinder.

 

[Mister Wolf]

It's criminal that DQX never came to the west.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yep, this is why I quit playing. Endwalker has the least amount of multiplayer content to date out of any expansion they’ve made. It didn’t help that the single player story content post-Endwalker has been the least interesting stuff they’ve ever had IMO. When you rely on your narrative to do the heavy lifting for your subscription game, it better deliver… and frankly, it currently doesn’t. Even some of the diehard dedicated FFXIV streamers have moved on to play other games, because they have literally nothing to do in-game.

When XIV got too successful they started to care less and less so you get the bare minimum amount of content/activities and what have you. Game got streamlined over the years. After all if they are getting your money anyway there isn't much incentive to wow players anymore.

Such a shame they no longer stick to their guidelines.

 

[squidilix]

That's why I hated FF14

 

[NecrosaroIII]

It's criminal that DQX never came to the west.

You should totally play the fan translation. It's not perfect, but it's definitely good enough to enjoy! The game is very good. And it's also onsale for 80% off. I got the all in package for like 7 USD.

 

[Faust]

I played through FFXIV about 2 years ago and now I'm working my way through DQX thanks to the very awesome fan translation. It is interesting to me that these are both multiplayer games that were designed to be played mostly single-player, though the games go about this in very different ways.

FFXIV's Approach
FFXIV's story is told linearly for the most part. While there are portions where you have some choice in what to tackle first, these sections are relatively short with no impact on the story. Most of the time you can handle quests by yourself. Eventually, you unlock a companion chocobo which serves as a party member that can fit any role.

This is typical for the vast majority of MMORPGs these days, sadly. Forced grouping and quests that require a full party to complete are rarely a thing in any MMO.

Duties are the only time where you're forced to party with people and even then it's a very detached affair. You're sorted into parties based on your role. HOWEVER, this is changing. The developers have been working on making it so you can do most duties with AI party members. This started with Shadowbringers but they've since gone back and made it so you can do it for earlier dungeons as well. The gameplay is so streamlined that if you know your role then you should be able to handle whatever the game throws at you without much coordination. Only Savage content really requires contact with other players. In my 600 hours playing, I don't think I ever said anything to another player.

You can do many baseline content with AI members, but you are far slower doing that than going in with a bad party. Usually 5-15 minutes longer per run. Sure you *could* do a Blue Mage, but that prevents you from gaining experience on other jobs and you can't do that for the newest content. Usually 1-2 expansions behind is the most you can do with a limited job.

As for other content that requires players: Alliance Raids, which (unless you are doing Crystal Tower) often has people discussing tactics and fight mechanics or just generally talking. Hunts, especially S ranks, require large groups and discussions on where to go and, at least for the last 4 years of doing them daily, always has conversations ongoing during them and often an "after party" at one of the hunt users player houses. Savage raids require groups and proper communication. Ultimate raids require long time parties and copious amounts of discussion and teamwork to manage. As did many of the zones like Eureka and Bozja (which Endwalker did admittedly lack, but has already been confirmed will be returning in Dawntrail, so not a major "they don't care" moment like some would doomsay).

I have spent a few thousand hours of playing over the last 10 years and I have at most a handful of moments each year where I enter a dungeon or raid and don't have conversations and fun moments with the community. Even outside of the typical "end game" shtick of raids and pvp, there are constant community parties, plays, rp events, and more. It feels the most alive and openly engaging community in any MMO since the early days of WoW and when I played Everquest, Ultima Online, and Star Wars Galaxies.

FFXIV gives you the option to engage or not with the community. If you choose not to talk or party, that is on you the player. Not the game itself. To use Modern WoW as a counter example, I actively try to engage with the community, in dungeons, mythic plus runs, raids, and more and rarely get actual conversation. That is a game designed around antisocial behavior and creating little boxes that prevent community engagement. During events like the Super Bloom or Fyrakk Assaults, there is rarely anyone ever chatting or working together. Often times it is a few players doing dmage while the rest follow mindlessly to get free loot.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Thats why i enjoyed FFXIV so much. I could do all the quests at my own pace without need to relly on others. Then for dungeons and raids the game also has a great matchmaking that in a party of 4 you are always forced to take 1 healer, 1 tank and 2 DPS class of characters, and the game does this by matchmaking without the need to shout LFG in the chat like i had to do when i played WoW.

The community is amazing, if i told my party it was my 1st time in the dungeon, there was always someone willing to explain the boss mechanics and what i should focus on.

Really? I remember people always wise-assing me check out the mechanics on YT before doing the dungeon.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Really? I remember people always wise-assing me check out the mechanics on YT before doing the dungeon.

Oh you'll get that too. Like all communities it's a mixed bag. When the new patch comes out with the Asura fight I can already see 1 day after the patch you'll get Party Finder with descriptions like "know the fight or get kicked".

Dawntrail will be the same.

With current MMOs I think the days of the past where you have to party up and work together and build a community and therefore the world at large is long gone.

 

[kikii]

. Hunts, especially S ranks, require large groups and discussions on where to go and, at least for the last 4 years of doing them daily

hunts mmmm S-rank enjoyer here ^^

 

[Faust]

Really? I remember people always wise-assing me check out the mechanics on YT before doing the dungeon.

Nine times out of ten the community is more than helpful for new players. You occasionally get an asshole, but that tends to be relatively rare. At least on Aether.

 

[MagiusNecros]

XIV community in-game is generally very helpful. Stay away from elitist snobs and Mentors though. They tend to suck.

Eh Hunts aren't really difficult if you get in on a Hunt Train. Becomes a cakewalk at that point. I enjoy critical engagements in Bozja/Zadnor more.

 

[Shouta]

There's plenty of reasons to party in DQX but the story isn't it. Alliance fights, coin boss fights, various other events that require players. There's also how much more involved the economy can be, etc.

You're only barely scratching the surface with 1.0. DQX does an amazing job of accommodating pretty much everyone.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

There's plenty of reasons to party in DQX but the story isn't it. Alliance fights, coin boss fights, various other events that require players. There's also how much more involved the economy can be, etc.

You're only barely scratching the surface with 1.0. DQX does an amazing job of accommodating pretty much everyone.

Shouta,

When do I hit the first Alliance fight? I'm currently wrapping up side stories between V1 and V2 before heading over to Lenderesia.

 

[Shouta]

Shouta,

When do I hit the first Alliance fight? I'm currently wrapping up side stories between V1 and V2 before heading over to Lenderesia.

End of 2.0 unlocks Palace of the Wicked God (or however it's translated) that can be done regularly for War God Belts. That's 8 person events battles with matchmaking available.

Astortia Defense Force is available as soon as you get the Key Emblem for Verinard or whatever the merman capital is. However, you need to be Lv 90 or higher in a job and have 4.0 installed.

There's more stuff from the other versions too but it'll take a bit to get there.

 

[Sojiro]

It's partly why I still consider FFXI (Up to wing of the goddess) my favorite MMO of all time. The MMO aspect of it was much more forced, so you needed to group to level efficiently. You know, play a massively multiplayer game with other people. For as much as I love WoW (mostly up to the first two expacs), they started the trend of putting more and more emphasis on single player progress, outside of dungeons and end game, and other MMOs followed that path. I met a ton of people (some of which I still occasionally chat with) from just grind exp parties in FFXI, and IMO the game was much more fun because you were forced to interact with other people.

 

[majorgamer10]

Being forced to socialize is a dick move anyway

 

[NecrosaroIII]

End of 2.0 unlocks Palace of the Wicked God (or however it's translated) that can be done regularly for War God Belts. That's 8 person events battles with matchmaking available.

Astortia Defense Force is available as soon as you get the Key Emblem for Verinard or whatever the merman capital is. However, you need to be Lv 90 or higher in a job and have 4.0 installed.

There's more stuff from the other versions too but it'll take a bit to get there.

I hear that. Yeah haven't gotten that far yet. Is matchmaking as painless as ffxiv

 

[Shouta]

I hear that. Yeah haven't gotten that far yet. Is matchmaking as painless as ffxiv

Yeah, it just autofills the groups for these fights. It's mostly fast since jobs aren't as rigid role-wise and the game mechanics are different than other MMOs

 

[Kumomeme]

rather than 'anti-social', it is more like the devs trying to reduce the barrier for new player atleast until they reach endgame. lot of people like to play MMO but they either shy or not very good at socialize. also lot of player nowdays didnt have much free time to socialize unlike before where they can plan to schedule their timing with other player or spend lot of time playing everyday. the solo single player content oriented friendly helped to aleviate that. also the Trust system merely a preparation for future incase the game started dwindling down and lack of player to run the dungeon like FFXI is. even now some of old content take times to que. the A.I NPC also usually just for first time single player run. after that for second run or daily roulette, you need to run with actual people especially for farming tomestone for endgame content gear.

the system is designed with single player approach in mind but for endgame it still require socializing aspect. it is merely an option. there is still plenty content in the game that required socializing which is up to the players than the system. for MMO, endgame is where the 'real' content is and there is where it divide between casual players and hardcore players/raiders.

 

[Loomy]

HOWEVER, this is changing. The developers have been working on making it so you can do most duties with AI party members.

This is a very good thing.

 

[cireza]

When XIV got too successful they started to care less and less so you get the bare minimum amount of content/activities and what have you. Game got streamlined over the years. After all if they are getting your money anyway there isn't much incentive to wow players anymore.

Such a shame they no longer stick to their guidelines.

Don't forget your roots

And then proceeds to make FF XVI

 

[Vlodril]

Really? I remember people always wise-assing me check out the mechanics on YT before doing the dungeon.

I had a bad party once but playing the main game and 2 expansions i always had a great time in dungeons with people. Usually they are super helpful teach you the mechanics and strategies and even if there is a wipe or two no one goes berserk.

Out of all the mmo's i ve played ffxiv def has the friendliest community.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I like I don't need a group or online friends to be able to play or beat the game. I beat ARR alone and I had fun doing so. Randos were usually chill. An MMO noob can start this game.

 

[Kazdane]

Personally, I much prefer FFXIV as it is. MMORPGs of yore made sense back when we didn't have that many options for entertainment (before streaming, easy access to digital media, free games and so on increased our entertainment options enormously). Add to it that nowadays, those of us that were playing WoW in 2005 are older, have more responsabilities, etc, and you get a formula that I very much welcome. I know I can login in FFXIV and get stuff done, either on my own or with a group of people, and always have something to look forward, while I can chat with people. WoW, unfortunately, is still very much a product of its time. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but I don't have the time for hardcore raiding, nor the desire to treat what should be a fun social time (if I feel like), like a super competitive esports game. If I want to play a competitive game, I play CS2, if I want to socialize, chill and do hard content if I feel like it, XIV is right there.

I like hard content (I did raid back in the day), but I have no desire, nor patience, to deal with people that can't fathom that you may make a mistake from time to time, or that you don't know the perfect route (yet) when tanking in a mythic+ dungeon. So, as far as I'm concerned, I hope FFXIV and other MMOs that let you choose if you want to play with others (or not) keep around for a long time.