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[brain_stew]

Well personally I like my combo, cheap, high resolution IPS monitor for everyday use and a nice 40" 1080p HDTV (with a 10 bit panel) for gaming and movies. The best of both worlds!

Actually HDTVs are probably the cheapest way to get hold off a nice high resolution non-TN panel these days. Here in the UK at least there's been some insane deals on 26"/27"/32" HDTVs and they basically universally never use TN panels. So long as the model you're looking at supports 1:1 pixel mapping, by all means go with a cheaper lower tier brand, its usually the picture processing (which will be completely bypassed for PC use) that sets apart the low and high end models anyway.

 

[sinny]

Guys i have a new pc but... , i bought a Ati 5770 and now if im playing a game using a lower resolution than the native im using on my desktop, the game will appear on a small screen with black borders. Im using 1650x1050 and i want to play the game in 1440x900 full screen stretched. Is there a solution?
Im using win7.

 

[Odious Tea]

I don't have a solution for you, but is there any particular reason why you're trying to accomplish this? It pretty much plays anything I throw at it at 1920x1080.

 

[Septimus]

Since my question got lost in the abyss of the HTPC thread, I'll ask it again here. I'm looking to build a HTPC for media and some gaming (probably gonna get a 5770). But yeah I need help with components and which case (mATX? m itx?) etc. The tv is 47" 1080p.

 

[coopolon]

Guys i have a new pc but... , i bought a Ati 5770 and now if im playing a game using a lower resolution than the native im using on my desktop, the game will appear on a small screen with black borders. Im using 1650x1050 and i want to play the game in 1440x900 full screen stretched. Is there a solution?
Im using win7.

Either you can change the scaling options on your monitor if they exist (TVs almost always have this option, PC monitors are hit or miss), or in CCC. I used to be able to find the scaling options in CCC really easily, but for the last couple of versions I have no idea where they are.

 

[Konosuke]

Noob question incoming: I can't figure out if a PCI-E 2.0 card works with a PCI-E 1.0 board : |

 

[brain_stew]

Since my question got lost in the abyss of the HTPC thread, I'll ask it again here. I'm looking to build a HTPC for media and some gaming (probably gonna get a 5770). But yeah I need help with components and which case (mATX? m itx?) etc. The tv is 47" 1080p.

See this post:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19671306&postcount=2089

Zotac's H55 M-ITX boards are now available on New Egg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500043&Tpk=zotac h55

 

[Druz]

Edit: Found a thread with the average input lag value of the Dell IPS panel, it's 14ms, or less than a single frame at 60fps gaming.

I can't imagine you'd notice the lag of less than a single frame.

14ms is actually quite disgusting. Stuff blurs and it much more noticeable than a comparative. 2ms. Yes my TN is slightly darker at the top and lighter on the bottom. It's unnoticeable unless you look for it. This back and forth is stupid... I've used REALLY GOOD versions of both panels while you obviously have used a shitty TN. I'm aware of the glaring differences between a shitty TN and a nice IPS. My eyes would notice the difference, just like it'd notice the difference between response times. The color "improvement" just isn't worth the $$ + slower response.

Reposting:

 

[lachesis]

Since my question got lost in the abyss of the HTPC thread, I'll ask it again here. I'm looking to build a HTPC for media and some gaming (probably gonna get a 5770). But yeah I need help with components and which case (mATX? m itx?) etc. The tv is 47" 1080p.

Well many mini itx/atom boards don't have much expansion, so I guess in your case its mATX at the minimum if you want to install some decent graphics card.

In my case, quiet media playing is the most important one, so I'm actually thinking about dismantling my 2nd pc (just a regular pc with dvi connection to my old 60" hdtv), sell the unnecessary components and build a smaller, nearly silent one with mini itx / Atom 330 / Ion base... maybe with blu-ray option. But I'm sure it's probably not that good for any gaming.

 

[brain_stew]

Noob question incoming: I can't figure out if a PCI-E 2.0 card works with a PCI-E 1.0 board : |

It will in all but the rarest of cases (usually only really old and obscure OEM boards have issues).

 

[Spiderjericho]

I went to Fry's and I saw a few HTPC cases that looked like AV components. At one time, I was interested in getting something similar to that. Maybe when I upgrade, I'll throw the old parts into one of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133078
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811160018
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811235023

 

[calder]

Thanks for the feedback guys, no to crossfire and I won't let physx sway my decision. Guess I'll be looking at the mid-range Radeons now, maybe a 57xx? I think the 5850 is a bit much for my needs right now...

 

[brain_stew]

Well many mini itx/atom boards don't have much expansion, so I guess in your case its mATX at the minimum if you want to install some decent graphics card.
.

True but the Sliverstone Sugo can fit a dual height GPU just fine and since Zotac's baords already have integrated eSATA and wireless n, there's not all that much need for expansion ports either and the PSU they integrate is excellent. If you're going small, might as well go the whole hog imo.

Both the i3 CPU and a 5770 are super power efficient yet insanely powerful and more than enough for today's games at 1080p. This sort of build can give you everything without very much compromise at all.

Also for HTPC builders, check out this remote, which integrates a full keyboard and mouse and a bunch of media/desktop hotkeys and is compatible with all software and OSes since your PC sees it as just a standard USB keybaord:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26368

 

[Konosuke]

It will in all but the rarest of cases (usually only really old and obscure OEM boards have issues).

But what's the drawback? Decrease in performance?

 

[brain_stew]

But what's the drawback? Decrease in performance?

Nothing. The only cards that suffer reduced performance are dual GPU cards like the 4870X2, GTX 295 and 5970, and even then its not a huge deal. Running my GTX 260 on a normal PCIe x16 slot here just fine. In fact most GAFers are probably still using old, non PCIe 2.0 motherboards.

Edit: Have we really devolved into posting digital camera pictures viewed through your own LCD panel to judge the quality of monitors, now? Please, stop that shit, this thread is above such idiocy.

 

[Septimus]

I'll have to wait until NCIX has that Zotac motherboard but yeah, thanks! Do you recommend any extra fans/cooling options? Actually.. will anything else even fit in there? lol

 

[drhankmccoyphd]

reposting in the hopes that someone can point me in the right directions:

I've decided to take another whack at Overclocking my CPU. I'm running an X3 435 on a Gigabyte MA770T mobo. I'm currently running stable at 3.3GHz on stock voltage, but no matter what I do with voltages (I've raised CPU voltate to +0.1V) I cannot get passed that wall in 1 hour Prime 95. Under load the Hyper 212 keeps the CPU less than 35C so I think I should have a lot of room for more OC.

Hoping someone here can give me a little advice if if I post my mobo settings:

CPU Clock Ratio: 3335MHz
CPU NB Freq: 2070 MHz
CPU Freq: 230
PCIE Clock: Auto
HT Link Freq: Auto 
Set Memory Clock: Auto 
Memory Clock: x5.33     1225Mhz (OCZ DDR3 RAM is advertised as 1333MHz)
DRAM Config: Auto

DRAM Voltage: Normal 1.600V
DDR VTT Voltage Control: Normal 0.900V
NB Voltage Control: Normal 1.100V
SB/HT Voltage Control: Normal 1.200V
NB PCIE Voltage Control: Normal 1.800 MHz
CPU NB VID Control: Normal
CPU Voltage Control: Normal 1.425V

What would be the next logical step to get to around 3.6-3.7GHz?

edit: I'm using this RAM

 

[Konosuke]

Nothing. The only cards that suffer reduced performance are dual GPU cards like the 4870X2, GTX 295 and 5970, and even then its not a huge deal. Running my GTX 260 on a normal PCIe x16 slot here just fine. In fact most GAFers are probably still using old, non PCIe 2.0 motherboards.

Great! I always thought that i had to buy a new motherboard.

 

[brain_stew]

I'll have to wait until NCIX has that Zotac motherboard but yeah, thanks! Do you recommend any extra fans/cooling options? Actually.. will anything else even fit in there? lol

Read the two Tech Report articles, it'll guide you through all the nuances of using such a tiny case. That case/PSU combo will happily power/fit a full size GPU, a 3.5" HDD, a slimline optical drive and a high end CPU (I chose an i3 specifically because they have a super low TDP and excellent idle power usage whilst still being super quick). Most of everything else you'd want is already integrated on the motherboard, like the wireless N, e-sata, gigabit ethernet and HD audio (although you'd probably want to use the 5770's HDMI audio for this so you can deliver a 1 cable A/V solution).

Like any other HTPC , NAS is the way to go if the 1-2TB you stuff in the thing initially becomes restrictive.

I'd go with a Samsung F3 for the HDD btw, as they're pretty quiet yet super cheap and quick.

The case already has a very efficient cooling setup though I'd recommend buying a custom cooler for the CPU, something that isn't too tall and will allow you to run your fans at a lower RPM.

Fwiw, if I was starting my PC building over from scratch, I think this is probably the way I'd go. You're actually giving up very little and yet you'll end up with a super tiny, stylish looking and quiet running PC at the end of it.

 

[Septimus]

Okay thanks, just curious though, it seems like the articles are using the motherboards with the integrated graphics. How does that work when you add a 5770, it seems like all the output slots on the back are for the motherboard only?

 

[brain_stew]

Okay thanks, just curious though, it seems like the articles are using the motherboards with the integrated graphics. How does that work when you add a 5770, it seems like all the output slots on the back are for the motherboard only?

Check the second page, they make a suggestion about using a dedicated GPU. The Silverstone SUGO actually has space for a double height expansion card, have a look at the New Egg pictures. Actually, go and read some of the New Egg reviews there's some useful info about the types of setups people are using the case for. A 5770 actually uses less power than even a 8800GT and a Core i3 less than a Core 2 duo, yet there's people that have happily used the case with a GTS 250 and a high end Core 2 CPU. Now, I'm not suggesting just buying this thing blind off my advice, it pays to do your own research especially for some that is quite a niche/speciality build like this. Be warned, when working in such a confined space it won't be as straight forward as a normal PC build, though that's to be expected.

It'll work just like any PC really, since the 5770 has integrated 7.1 audio with HD bitstreaming, you'd just use a single HDMI cable from the card for your A/V output.

 

[Hitokage]

14ms is actually quite disgusting. Stuff blurs and it much more noticeable than a comparative. 2ms. Yes my TN is slightly darker at the top and lighter on the bottom. It's unnoticeable unless you look for it. This back and forth is stupid... I've used REALLY GOOD versions of both panels while you obviously have used a shitty TN. I'm aware of the glaring differences between a shitty TN and a nice IPS. My eyes would notice the difference, just like it'd notice the difference between response times. The color "improvement" just isn't worth the $$ + slower response.

[Worthless pictures]

You DO realize the futility in conveying color authenticity by displaying a photo on an arbitrary monitor, right? Unless, of course, something is significantly wrong with an image.

 

[Septimus]

I'm just going to pay the $40 CDN and have NCIX build it for me anyway. I really appreciate all the advice though.

 

[Minsc]

14ms is actually quite disgusting. Stuff blurs and it much more noticeable than a comparative. 2ms. Yes my TN is slightly darker at the top and lighter on the bottom. It's unnoticeable unless you look for it. This back and forth is stupid... I've used REALLY GOOD versions of both panels while you obviously have used a shitty TN. I'm aware of the glaring differences between a shitty TN and a nice IPS. My eyes would notice the difference, just like it'd notice the difference between response times. The color "improvement" just isn't worth the $$ + slower response.

Reposting:


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/105329/SDC10150.JPG[/IMG]
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/105329/SDC10151.JPG[/IMG]

The 2ms number you're posting is not the same as the 14ms I am talking about. The input lag is not the response time. The response time of the Dell IPS monitor is 6ms. The average input lag is 14ms in gaming mode. Multiple reviews about the dell have said there is no ghosting or blurring visible on it.

If you look up the input lag for your monitor when tested against a CRT display, it will likely be around 10ms (maybe more). Chances are, your TN panel is not all that different from the IPS in gaming mode, I'd bet.

Also, your images show nothing. Take the picture I posted earlier of the girl's face, remove the IPS half, and you'd never know the better it was messed up. But the point is, it is. And it's incredibly obvious when seen side-by-side to a proper display.

 

[brain_stew]

I'm just going to pay the $40 CDN and have NCIX build it for me anyway. I really appreciate all the advice though.

A-ha, never thought about that, that's a bloody great option to have, and a build like this is where it'll be particularly useful. Given the option, I'd probably do the same, proper cable routing/management is going to be a bitch with that thing

 

[Druz]

The 2ms number you're posting is not the same as the 14ms I am talking about. The input lag is not the response time. The response time of the Dell IPS monitor is 6ms. The average input lag is 14ms in gaming mode. Multiple reviews about the dell have said there is no ghosting or blurring visible on it.

If you look up the input lag for your monitor when tested against a CRT display, it will likely be around 10ms (maybe more). Chances are, your TN panel is not all that different from the IPS in gaming mode, I'd bet.

Also, your images show nothing. Take the picture I posted earlier of the girl's face, remove the IPS half, and you'd never know the better it was messed up. But the point is, it is. And it's incredibly obvious when seen side-by-side to a proper display.

Saying theres no blurring on any panel is a complete lie unless its 120hz but i know what you mean. On that comparison between the TN and the e-IPS can you send me the source image to so I can what it actually looks like on my monitor? Best place to find monitor flaws: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/viewing_angle.php

OMG, one is brighter.

OMG, joke?

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Well shiiiiiiit, the advantages of overclocking really don't hit you until you're converting an H.264 video at 150fps :lol

 

[Hitokage]

OMG, one is brighter.

 

[T-Matt]

I really like that the dell monitor can swivel to be vertical. It doesn't seem many monitors I've seen can do that.

 

[kamspy]

I converted myself back from the darkside today.

In one months time I've rid my machine of all the intel and ati filth. It is now a clean, blessed device.

 

[rollingstart]

Just saying for any potential buyers of the 2209wa (the Dell 22-inch IPS monitor), you can bump it to 75hz (or 76) safely at native 1680x1050 resolution, even though I don't think it is officially documented.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

I've got a few cheap games on Steam recently (Half Life 1, Civ 3, few others) and now really want to get a new graphics card to play the sequels to those games and some other games I'm interested in. I have an HP Pavilion a6157c. It's not a total piece of crap I don't think, 2 ghz CPU and 2 gigs of RAM should be able to play most games at mid-settings at 1680x1050, right?

I'm not sure how to figure out what will fit in the case though, and I'm not sure whether a 5750/70 is overkill for my RAM and CPU. The 5770 seems like a great card for me, so long as it wouldn't be too held back by the processor it should let me play even newer games like Bioshock, but I don't want to order one and find out that it's too big. I'm assuming a 56xx card would fit for sure, but I'd rather pay a little extra and have the extra power if that's an option.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

I've got a few cheap games on Steam recently (Half Life 1, Civ 3, few others) and now really want to get a new graphics card to play the sequels to those games and some other games I'm interested in. I have an HP Pavilion a6157c. It's not a total piece of crap I don't think, 2 ghz CPU and 2 gigs of RAM should be able to play most games at mid-settings at 1680x1050, right?

I'm not sure how to figure out what will fit in the case though, and I'm not sure whether a 5750/70 is overkill for my RAM and CPU. The 5770 seems like a great card for me, so long as it wouldn't be too held back by the processor it should let me play even newer games like Bioshock, but I don't want to order one and find out that it's too big. I'm assuming a 56xx card would fit for sure, but I'd rather pay a little extra and have the extra power if that's an option.

Figuring out what your power supply can support should take priority, specifically what the 12v rails can hold.

 

[kamspy]

It's got a PCI express slot at least. I think the C2D in there would push a 5770 just fine. Might want to OC it a bit. Should be able to get something out of it with the stock heat sink. For $~150 I think it would be an incredible upgrade. Maybe even add some RAM if you can find it cheap (pretty much impossible these days though).

 

[Everdred]

I posted this in the Bad Company 2 thread but no one answered. Going to ask it here:

Hey PC people:
What is a good speaker solution for under $100? Are there any good setups for True 5.1 surround sound or what are you guys using for audio? I want to enjoy this games amazing sound

 

[TheExodu5]

Just saying for any potential buyers of the 2209wa (the Dell 22-inch IPS monitor), you can bump it to 75hz (or 76) safely at native 1680x1050 resolution, even though I don't think it is officially documented.

If it's anything like 75Hz CRT gaming, that'd be awesome. That's the one thing I really miss without my CRT. Not sure if refresh rates benefit LCDs as much though.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

I posted this in the Bad Company 2 thread but no one answered. Going to ask it here:

It's only 2.1 channel but I am using the Logitech Z-2300's. For stereo sound it's great. THX certified. I paid like $100 for them a couple years ago, dunno what they are going for these days or whatever the updated equivalent is.

 

[brain_stew]

I've got a few cheap games on Steam recently (Half Life 1, Civ 3, few others) and now really want to get a new graphics card to play the sequels to those games and some other games I'm interested in. I have an HP Pavilion a6157c. It's not a total piece of crap I don't think, 2 ghz CPU and 2 gigs of RAM should be able to play most games at mid-settings at 1680x1050, right?

I'm not sure how to figure out what will fit in the case though, and I'm not sure whether a 5750/70 is overkill for my RAM and CPU. The 5770 seems like a great card for me, so long as it wouldn't be too held back by the processor it should let me play even newer games like Bioshock, but I don't want to order one and find out that it's too big. I'm assuming a 56xx card would fit for sure, but I'd rather pay a little extra and have the extra power if that's an option.

I wouldn't runa 5770/5750 on that PSU.

5670 is what you should be looking at.

It's got a PCI express slot at least. I think the C2D in there would push a 5770 just fine. Might want to OC it a bit. Should be able to get something out of it with the stock heat sink. For $~150 I think it would be an incredible upgrade. Maybe even add some RAM if you can find it cheap (pretty much impossible these days though).

No overclocking on a HP machine, and you wouldn't want to on its puny PSU either.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Shit, I wasn't even thinking about the power supply. That's pretty disappointing if the CPU wouldn't have been an issue for a nicer card.

5670 is A OK then, or is even that pushing it? I really can't afford for this computer to crap out on me...

 

[x3sphere]

14ms is actually quite disgusting. Stuff blurs and it much more noticeable than a comparative. 2ms. Yes my TN is slightly darker at the top and lighter on the bottom. It's unnoticeable unless you look for it. This back and forth is stupid... I've used REALLY GOOD versions of both panels while you obviously have used a shitty TN. I'm aware of the glaring differences between a shitty TN and a nice IPS. My eyes would notice the difference, just like it'd notice the difference between response times. The color "improvement" just isn't worth the $$ + slower response.

Why pay more for a decent TN when you could probably step up to an IPS panel for $100 more? Going off memory, "high-end" TN panels generally go for around $250-300. I've seen 24" IPS monitors go for around $400 on sale. Refurbs can be had for quite a bit less and I've never had a problem buying secondhand from Dell. As a web designer, I notice the vertical color shift on any TN panel. They simply are unusable to me. All depends on your needs I suppose.

Like someone else pointed out, the 2ms figure you cite is simply a rated response time given by the manufacture. Usually, the average figure for input lag is much higher. According to that link, my 3008WFP averages at around 24-33ms and I do not notice any lag or blurring during normal usage, even in twitch heavy first-person shooters like CS:S or TF2. It is only noticeable when moving a window on the desktop in slow succession. My 42LH90 HDTV does perform better in this respect but it's not a drastic difference. I'm sure there's gamers out there that would find such input lag numbers inadequate but IMO unless you are extremely picky, under 30ms is fine. What matters more to me is a accurate picture.

 

[brain_stew]

Shit, I wasn't even thinking about the power supply. That's pretty disappointing if the CPU wouldn't have been an issue for a nicer card.

5670 is A OK then, or is even that pushing it? I really can't afford for this computer to crap out on me...

A 2ghz Core 2 is hardly top of the line either, it wouldn't have been an issue if you were OCing though. Just get a 5670, it doesn't even require the six pin PCIe power plug, should be fine.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

hey brain stew, any tips on overclocking my GTX 260 216s? any gains in performance?

 

[brain_stew]

hey brain stew, any tips on overclocking my GTX 260 216s? any gains in performance?

Yep, gains should be pretty much linear. Been running mine at 675/1404/1160, 24/7 for more than 6 months now. Gives me GTX 275 performance.

I used EVGA precision to OC (get it at Guru3D, works on any Nvidia card) and a combination of ATI Tool, Vantage and Fur Mark to stress test.

 

[kamspy]

No overclocking on a HP machine, and you wouldn't want to on its puny PSU either.

But he's only $150 from a gaming rig. Sure it wouldn't be a 1337 gam3ing riG. But it would play just about anything at an acceptable clip.


I don't know about HP PSUs, but a lot of everyday Dell PSUs have monster 12v rails. The 5770 hardly requires a spark to run anyways.


I'd say go for it dude. Can't lose.

 

[Hitokage]

OMG, joke?

Look, I'm not the one trying to claim a 6bit per channel display has incredible colors. Of course, the display gives fast response and for gaming that might be more important to you, but don't pretend the tradeoff isn't there.

 

[brain_stew]

But he's only $150 from a gaming rig. Sure it wouldn't be a 1337 gam3ing riG. But it would play just about anything at an acceptable clip.


I don't know about HP PSUs, but a lot of everyday Dell PSUs have monster 12v rails. The 5770 hardly requires a spark to run anyways.


I'd say go for it dude. Can't lose.

He can when he finds his PSU can't power it and he ends up with a useless card. The PSU is specified at 250w and while I'm well aware both Dell and HP tend to be conservative when marking their PSUs, 250w is crazy low. Just go with the 5670, its hardly a slouch anyway, basically on par with a 8800GT which is still a great performer in most games upto around 1440x900/1680x1050 anyway. Plus, its like $50/$60 cheaper anyway, and that 2ghz Core 2 is going to cause problems in a lot of games anyway.

 

[Big Baybee]

Windows 7: Home, Pro, Ultimate. I'm thinking of just going with Home. Right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight???

 

[brain_stew]

Windows 7: Home, Pro, Ultimate. I'm thinking of just going with Home. Right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight???

Yeah, home Premium should be fien for the vast majority of people, only go with the more expensive SKUs if they have a specific feature you need/want. I've only got 7 Pro because that's what Microsoft sell cheaply to students.

 

[Big Baybee]

Yeah, home Premium should be fien for the vast majority of people, only go with the more expensive SKUs if they have a specific feature you need/want. I've only got 7 Pro because that's what Microsoft sell cheaply to students.

Thanks. This is what I figured.

Edit: BTW, what Nvidia card do you recommend? My budget is about $1000. This is what I have decided on so far:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128406

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231277

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185

And this case has already been purchased.

 

[brain_stew]

Edit: BTW, what Nvidia card do you recommend? d.

I can't recommend any. Nvidia simply don't sell competitive high end cars atm. Get a 5850 or wait to see if the GTX 470 is priced decently when its launched in a month, though I wouldn't recommend holding your breath on that one.