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"I need a new PC!" 2010 Edition
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John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
tehAinsley said:
If I wanted to play StarCraft II on good settings, what should be the lappy's I'd be looking at?
This or above?
Quick question. I have a desktop with no wireless and it's upstairs in my temporary room. I want to get online. Is there a USB connector or a card I can put in (that's relatively cheap, under $50) to get it online?
Preferably if I can pick it up in store at best buy or something that'd be rad. Thanks.
Preferably if I can pick it up in store at best buy or something that'd be rad. Thanks.
Minsc
Gold Member
Cryptozoologist said:
$12 vs $40.
John Harker said:
Dell had a deal the other day for a quad i7 w/ 1GB 5000 series GPU for just $999, too bad it's not around! CPU-wise that'd slaughter that athlon chip.
Someone should post to a asus or something better, that laptop probably can't run SC2 maxed, but SC2 will run on almost anything w/ a combo of normal/low settings.
drhankmccoyphd
Member
Dash said:
Just sell the 8800. The 470 should be plenty powerful for both graphics and physx so that the addition heat and power required for the 8800 becomes a huge liability.
longdi
Banned
Initial Phenom II X6 tests look promising on the perf/$ level.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2731901
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=249606
http://forum.coolaler.com/showpost.php?p=2601846&postcount=25
the slower 2.8Ghz model is same price as i5-750 - $199. looks to beat Intel at multithreaded engines!
the top BE 3.2Ghz model is same price as i7-930/860. $290. looks comparable!
verdict, hold off your upgrades, Intel have to do some adjustments imo.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2731901
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=249606
http://forum.coolaler.com/showpost.php?p=2601846&postcount=25
the slower 2.8Ghz model is same price as i5-750 - $199. looks to beat Intel at multithreaded engines!
the top BE 3.2Ghz model is same price as i7-930/860. $290. looks comparable!
verdict, hold off your upgrades, Intel have to do some adjustments imo.
drhankmccoyphd
Member
Oni Jazar said:
Hmm, you should be getting really good fps unless you have everything set to max. The shadows look really good but they are incredibly cpu demanding. Try lowering draw distance, traffic density (amount of cars) and maybe shadows down to high/med.
Minsc
Gold Member
longdi said:
I don't see any game benches in those, and this CPU test done with a 5870x2 pretty much shows AMD isn't even in the ballpark as often as not when it comes to gaming performance (if you are in it for the long run and will take your GPU up to those speeds).
More cores really won't change anything, I expect, but if you're buying a CPU for gaming, just be careful of reading software benches and thinking they will perform the same way for gaming ones!
Even intel's i3 chips can often beat Phenom II X4s in games.
I agree, the prices may see a drop, it's best to wait a month before building a mid or high-range PC now.
Cryptozoologist said:
What i'm using, 12$ free shipping.
Minsc said:
That review is garbage. While there is clearly a difference between the the higher core chips and the phenoms after you spend 1000$ on GPUs the CPU really doesn't weigh in anywhere close to the GPU in the machine. Until Intel starts to outperform AMDs chips in the same price segments they won't be competative in a gaming build as you can put that extra money towards beefing up your GPU.
longdi
Banned
Minsc said:
Yes i seen the 3DM vantage score, closest to "gaming", my i7 930 still beat the 6 cores clock for clock!
phew! The prices of popular i5 750 and i7 930/X58 will definitely see some movement, oh well damn if i waited a month but ddr3 prices are climbing, bah PC tech drops and change too fast.
Minsc
Gold Member
Shambles said:
Well, no surprise, Tech Report's system guides have had the i5 750, in modest $800 systems, the very same chip that scores top marks on a 5870x2 system, which I think is pretty impressive.
I guess if you were going for a $400-600 system, but even then I think the i3s perform admirably in gaming systems, though in heavily threaded games, things can be a bit rough for the i3s, but that's the exception not the norm.
Either way, there's a good chance the $200 X6s won't outperform the $200 i5s in games.
Minsc said:
The i5 750 is a hell of a chip and would probably be what I would purchase if I built a new machine today as more than just gaming matters to me. But as for a machine built purely for gaming the 50$ish you save from going from the 750 to the PII 955 is usually better spent on the GPU. Unfortunately until there is a lot more competition in that market 50$ on top of a 5770 isn't going to get you anywhere. I just shake my head when a review like that goes up where they are stupid enough to add together the minimum and average framerates for the total framerate, and where they don't even bother to turn on any AA/AF like they would be on in real life usage.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Minsc said:
So Asus, XPS, or Alienware?
Minsc
Gold Member
UrbanRats said:Guys, i'll reask you this.
For the Mobo, it's better to go for Asus or Gigabyte? For around 100/130.
Also, there are 2000 version of each MoBo(LE, Deluxe, pro, UD3, UD4, blah blah blah)can't get my head around it.halp.
EDIT: Ah, cpu is i5 750 and gpu is 5850.
Tech Report recommends either the Asus' P7P55D-E or the Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3, giving the nod to the Asus if you care for external Serial ATA and/or FireWire... personally I see almost no complaints w/ Gigabyte boards here, so that's what I'd pick, but either should do you well!
I'd go with gigabyte.UrbanRats said:Guys, i'll reask you this.
For the Mobo, it's better to go for Asus or Gigabyte? For around 100/130.
Also, there are 2000 version of each MoBo(LE, Deluxe, pro, UD3, UD4, blah blah blah)can't get my head around it.
EDIT: Ah, cpu is i5 750 and gpu is 5850.
(unless you tell me it isn't worth the trouble Yesterday I made a relatively high end system which can be found here:
Today I went back and made another system this time changing the video card, processor, and the memory:
Core i5 - 750 2.6ghz
Antech 900 ATX Mid Tower
MSI P55-GD64 1156 Motherboard
XFX Radeon 5850 1GB
Corsair 750W CMPSU-750TX Power Supply
Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM
Samsung F3 500GB HD
Intel X25-M 80GB SSD
Sony 24X DVD Drive
Thermal Paste
Total : $1,311
So that's a $1,000 difference from the "high-end" machine I built yesterday. How would this compare to the machine I built yesterday (especially for games)?
Smokey said:
Today I went back and made another system this time changing the video card, processor, and the memory:
Core i5 - 750 2.6ghz
Antech 900 ATX Mid Tower
MSI P55-GD64 1156 Motherboard
XFX Radeon 5850 1GB
Corsair 750W CMPSU-750TX Power Supply
Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM
Samsung F3 500GB HD
Intel X25-M 80GB SSD
Sony 24X DVD Drive
Thermal Paste
Total : $1,311
So that's a $1,000 difference from the "high-end" machine I built yesterday. How would this compare to the machine I built yesterday (especially for games)?
Odious Tea
Member
Here's an excellent video for people who are considering building a PC for the first time. It's from Tested.com (friends of Giant Bomb) and the host pretty much runs through all the steps of building a computer. With some hand incidental information as well.
Really can't recommend it enough. The PC they built was pretty great, but if you're stretching your dollar then don't go with the system they put together. Hunt around for prices and alternatives.
http://www.tested.com/news/video-how-to-build-the-best-1500-gaming-pc-step-by-step/152/
Really can't recommend it enough. The PC they built was pretty great, but if you're stretching your dollar then don't go with the system they put together. Hunt around for prices and alternatives.
http://www.tested.com/news/video-how-to-build-the-best-1500-gaming-pc-step-by-step/152/
Smokey said:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html
The difference between the 5870 and 5850 is negligible compared to the price difference. 200 bucks. Stay with the 5850.
Now lets look at your CPU.
i5 750 score is - 4,216
i5 750 price is - $200
= 21.08 per $1
i7 930 score is - 5,869
i7 930 price is - $295
= 19.89 per $1
Samsung F3 Score is - 889 at $55
Caviar Score is - 632 at $100
If you plan to partition you might want to go with two F3's and make one external. No reason to get the caviar imo.
The cheaper rig is more than good enough to run any future game for the next 3 years or so. Here is my honest recommendation. If you build a computer now don't go crazy. A lot of people don't acknowledge this but console gaming dictates what level gaming pc you need.
We are at the end of the PS3 360 generation where we will see their new systems within the next 2 years or so. I would save my money on getting the best of the best now because it's overkill for the current games being developed and it won't be enough for running the next generation of HD games at 60fps max once the PS4 and 720 come out.
Save that money for building a new rig 1 year after the next generation of consoles start so you can get a great price on what is sure to be a system more powerful than the consoles.
In fact I would just go with the 5770 right now and upgrade to a better card when they become cheaper. No game is going to put the 5850 to the test as long as the PS3 and 360 are the most powerful consoles.
This is always a bad time to get a real powerful PC when it is so close to the next generation of consoles coming out.
Minsc
Gold Member
Shaheed79 said:
It's actually $100 price difference usually. 5850 is around $300, and 5870 is around $400 ($415 right now on newegg, but it's been $380 before).
Plenty of games right now run 60fps on a 5870 but not even close on a 5770 (under the highest options), hell, there's plenty of games that won't even hit 60 on a 5870 under the right settings. A lot also depends on your desire for AA and native resolution of your monitor, 1080p+ is suited better to a 5870.
Edit: First bench I looked up from here :lol
(almost 2x framerate on 5870, 66fps vs 39fps)
Kind of irrelevant since now he can buy one for $200 cheaper.Minsc said:
Where do I claim the 5770 would run all current games on max at 60fps? I said the 5850 would not be pushed that hard until the next generation of consoles come around. On the chart you linked the 5850 score is 56fps and the 5870 is 66fps. IMO that is negligible for a $200 price difference.
EDIT: Smokey I hope I didn't lead you to believe the 5770 would perform on the same level as the 5850 because it won't but I would go with the 5770 now since it's $150 and the 5850 when it drops in price to under $200.
Now if you have the money and want 60fps now then yes go with the 5850 but in no scenario do I see you needing to pay $500 for a 5870 given the performance difference between a $300 5850. I hope I cleared that up for you.
Minsc
Gold Member
Shaheed79 said:
Only thing that is a bit unclear is the $200 difference, you're comparing a 2GB to a 1GB one. You need to compare the 1GB 5870 to the 1GB 5770, the price difference is $100, then the 20% framerate boost becomes less irrelevant.
You're arguing a 20% increase isn't worth $200, but I'm explaining that a 20% increase doesn't cost $200 over a 5850, since you can buy a 5870 for about $100 more, not $200, and still get that 20% increase.
You also said no game is going to put a 5850 to the test, but there's plenty of games that will, if you care to start raising options in the games.
When someone says no game is going to put card X to the test, you pretty much assume they're talking about the highest settings, I do anyway! Sorry for the confusion on my end.
I'm sorry that just made me more confused. Are you comparing the 1gig 5870 to the 1gig 5850 or the 1gig 5870 to the 1gig 5770 when you say there is a 20% difference in performance? I hadn't paid attention to the amount of memory in the 5870 he linked to and it is indeed a 2gig. The highest rated 1 gig 5870 is still $420. So the price difference to power should look like this.Minsc said:
1gig 5870 price - $420
1gig 5870 score - 2,598
1gig 5850 price - $300
1gig 5850 score - 2,384
We should let him decide whether or not the price is worth the difference in benchmark. BTW I am curious as to which games you are speaking of that will give the 5850 some trouble?
Minsc
Gold Member
Shaheed79 said:
I know, the prices are a bit out of control. 5870s were selling for $380 not long ago, $390, and now $420! The 5850s have been seen for a bit under $300 in the past as well. The 1 gig 5870 is about 20% faster than the 1 gig 5850, and it varies against the 1 gig 5770, generally 50-75% faster though, sometimes a bit more or less.
The "score" value isn't really the best way to compare the cards. If you look at reviews of the 5850, and tally up the difference in FPS as a % for about 10 different reviewed games, and get an average, it should be around 20%, maybe slightly less.
Some games that can give a 5850 trouble (all options max, drops below 60fps with AA off)... Metro 2033, Crysis, Crysis Warhead, Dawn of War 2, STALKER (all 3 of them), World in Conflict, Lost Planet Colonies, Battleforge, Stormrise, H.A.W.X., Borderlands, DiRT 2, Just Cause 2, heck even The Witcher, and all the Neverwinter Nights 2 titles, and plenty more if I start listing games that are unoptimized for ATI or in general. These "troubles" are even worse with 4xAA of course, and worse still at 2560x1600.
Obviously you can simply start turning down options, but when you buy a $300 GPU, it's not fun to have to be turning down options!
Edit: There's only so many times you can talk about 5770, 5850, & 5870s without mixing them up.
BravoSuperStar
Member
Cheeto said:
Just get the dimensions and order one? As long as it's not like some crazy finnish-zimbabwae standard should be pretty easy to find one.
Minsc
Gold Member
Amir0x said:
Just grab the original and use the Complete mod (it's self-installing, even for Steam). Although you need to start a game once (and then just quit), before you install the Complete mod, so STALKER generates all the files the mod needs to work properly. They're making complete mods for all of them, the second game's just came out a few weeks ago.
The game is sick, play it with headphones and late at night and you feel the tension exploring the outsides especially when passing near the pockets of radiation!
Well I did it, using some of money I got from my Wedding on Sunday. I did a shameful upgrade to:
i7 930 @ 4 Gig
Asus P6X58D Premium
1333MHz Tri Channel Kit Patriot 6 gig kit
5850 (already had)
So now my question, I have a 550w antec true power PSU, does it have enough juice to support a GT 220 as a dedicated phys X card? If so is setup as simple as putting the card in the machine or do you have to do some funky shit with the drivers?
Love this processor stabilized and locked alot of games at 60 FPS now.
i7 930 @ 4 Gig
Asus P6X58D Premium
1333MHz Tri Channel Kit Patriot 6 gig kit
5850 (already had)
So now my question, I have a 550w antec true power PSU, does it have enough juice to support a GT 220 as a dedicated phys X card? If so is setup as simple as putting the card in the machine or do you have to do some funky shit with the drivers?
Love this processor stabilized and locked alot of games at 60 FPS now.
MSI GX640.John Harker said:
~$1100 for Core i5 + Mobility 5850, 15.4", 1680x1050
Mobility 5850 can be clocked to desktop 5770 speeds.
I recommend the Clevo W860CU or W870CU for those willing to spend on quality components. They lack flash and battery life though.
Minsc said:
Our definition of giving 5850 trouble is different. For me that means averaging below 35fps with everything maxed out with AA. 5850 can handle most all those games maxed at 60fps depending on resolution. The difference between 1600p, 1200p, 1080p, 900p and 720p can be 20-80fps and sometimes more depending on what game. At 900-1080p maxed out the 5850 averages 60fps or more in most of those games with especially with no AA.
Just for kicks I found videos of a lot of those games averaging 60+ fps all maxed out on a 5850.
Stalker averaging 60-70fps
1080p maxed out (fraps=on) (AA=off)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6_dyhCFhzs
Metro 2033 averaging 100-130fps
1080p maxed out (fraps=off) (AA=4xMSAA) DX9 (40-60fps 4xmsaa DX11)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmznkqir3Fo
Dawn of War II averaging 50-70fps
1080p maxed out (fraps=off) (AA=on)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CgqcxYEyJg
Lost Planet Colonies averaging 50-80fps DX10
1080p maxed out (fraps=off) (AA=4x)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgm-E5k3C9Q
Just Cause 2 averaging 40-75fps
1080p near max (fraps=off) (AA=4x)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJcJ6flmycY
Highly playable imho. I was going to do some others but I'm too sleepy to concentrate.
BravoSuperStar
Member
So I've been looking for a new laptop, just ordered this: Acer Aspire Intel Core i5 520M(2.40GHz) 15.6" 4GB DDR3 1066 320GB HDD / DVD ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5650
I had also looked at this Asus: ASUS Intel Pentium T4400(2.20GHz) 15.6" 4GB 320GB HDD / DVD NVIDIA GeForce GT 320M . Or even a Vaio: SONY Intel Core i3 330M(2.13GHz) 15.5" 4GB 500GB HDD / DVD ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470
The Acer was the best I could find for the price. I sold my old laptop, 17inch Toshiba, Core2Duo t5550 1.83ghz, 2gb ram, 8700gt for $600, so this should be a nice upgrade. I wanted something smaller and this one is 3lbs lighter. Also has a great CPU/GPU/LED-screen combo I think. I know laptops have been a hot topic lately, I think I did alright for $800 even, eh PC-GAF?
I had also looked at this Asus: ASUS Intel Pentium T4400(2.20GHz) 15.6" 4GB 320GB HDD / DVD NVIDIA GeForce GT 320M . Or even a Vaio: SONY Intel Core i3 330M(2.13GHz) 15.5" 4GB 500GB HDD / DVD ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470
The Acer was the best I could find for the price. I sold my old laptop, 17inch Toshiba, Core2Duo t5550 1.83ghz, 2gb ram, 8700gt for $600, so this should be a nice upgrade. I wanted something smaller and this one is 3lbs lighter. Also has a great CPU/GPU/LED-screen combo I think. I know laptops have been a hot topic lately, I think I did alright for $800 even, eh PC-GAF?
BravoSuperStar said:
One of my coworkers bought a slightly lower end Acer laptop (i3, Intel VGA. he's not a gamer) off Newegg a few weeks ago and he loves it. He brought it in once and it seems like a really nice laptop. I helped him shop around for a good price and the Acer line couldn't be beat, so I think you made a wise purchase.
I have a super challenge for all you super smart dudes in this thread. Search this site and find the best GPU you can find for less than, close to, or only a bit over $300.
For perspective:
Res: 1680x1050
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+
GPU: 8800GT 512mb
RAM: 4GB DDR2
MB: Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H
PSU: Antec 650wat something or other (sorry I don't have the exact model)
I'm planning to upgrade the CPU in a few more months time, so it won't be a total bottleneck forever.
Sorry to dump this on y'all with me all expecting to get an answer for nothing, but I'm completely out of the loop on GPUs at the moment and I need some serious pointing to see where I should go. I could probably kick the budget up to $350 if needed, as some AusGAFers have told me I'd have better luck with that.
For perspective:
Res: 1680x1050
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+
GPU: 8800GT 512mb
RAM: 4GB DDR2
MB: Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H
PSU: Antec 650wat something or other (sorry I don't have the exact model)
I'm planning to upgrade the CPU in a few more months time, so it won't be a total bottleneck forever.
Sorry to dump this on y'all with me all expecting to get an answer for nothing, but I'm completely out of the loop on GPUs at the moment and I need some serious pointing to see where I should go. I could probably kick the budget up to $350 if needed, as some AusGAFers have told me I'd have better luck with that.
Minsc
Gold Member
Shaheed79 said:
Your Metro results don't really qualify as "maxed," the only reason it's like that is because you're running DX9 not DX11, which is going to turn off all the advanced effects, it's like running the game on medium even though it is maxed. Even SLI GTX 480s can't hold that game at 60 fps, no way a single 5850 does.
Just noticed there are DX11 results too, and I can guarantee you they don't turn on tessellation and DOF, or they are not outdoors from the beginning firefight. Your framerate will fall to the teens there (with no AA), without a doubt.
Dawn of War 2 like any RTS depends on the amount of units on the screen at one time. I've had it fall to below 30s on a 5870 (final mission of the campaign), plus that 5850 in the video you linked is also overclocked, which isn't a great way to show benchmarks. I'd argue against STALKER too, the benchmarks are quite extensive for that one too, and it's easy to find areas of the game that run at over 60, yes, but when things get loaded down with action is when the fps hit is the worst, and that's usually what benchmarks focus on.
I agree some more of the games can hold properly to your definition of trouble, but when you're running something like Dragon Age Origins at 60fps, and you hit dips, I noticed it immediately, and to me that's giving my card trouble. Falling to even below 45fps in some areas kill the smoothness of the game. But if all you're looking for is ~30fps, then many of the games I originally listed won't fall below that.
60fps is so much nicer than 30fps though; still, I always choose graphics over framerate to a point, it just sucks when I can't have it all!
This for $269 http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_876&products_id=14029Kritz said:
And if your willing to kick it up to $350. This is the cheapest 5850 card, and has a small overclock, which makes it decent value http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_934&products_id=13811.