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[Salaadin]

NVidia is a lot more cautious with their updates, though they've had some bad ones in the past few years (overheating cards, causing freezes in King's Bounty/STO). Overall, they're pretty stable though. I think they've stepped up their QA recently, since releases are much farther apart.

That seems to be the general consensus in other places as well from what Im hearing. Personally, Id rather farther apart but working updates rather than AMDs monthly updates + 2 or 3 hotfixes.

 

[TheExodu5]

It's got 50A on twin 12Vs.

So that may be a problem, however...I can't see the 8800 utilizing too much power.

Also, I've read that the 470 needs ~35A, and the 8800 needs ~28A, so I might be out of luck.

Don't worry about those values...they're overstated. I'm sure 50A should be fine, as long as it splits power nicely over the rails.

 

[darthbob]

Don't worry about those values...they're overstated. I'm sure 50A should be fine, as long as it splits power nicely over the rails.

There's only about a 5% load fluctuation on load on the 12V with my particular PSU, so I'll give it a try with Mafia II PhysX in a little while.

Again, the only think I dislike about my PSU is that for an SLI/Crossfire cert. PSU, it only has 2 6-Pin PCI-E connectors, and frankly, if I ever want to do an MGPU stuff, I have to use 4 Molex cables, and those look so...shitty.

Ah well, cheers. :lol

 

[Jinaar]

Good to see a fellow Edmontonian on here. I like ME but their PM has gotten more lame lately. Expect to run into resistance if the sites your are matching state there are limited quantities, I ended up doing my entire build from NCIX because of this. ME Also has a 21.5" 1080P monitor on sale for 99$ if you need a monitor. Using just 1 stick of ram will not allow you to make use of the dual channel memory, it will operate on a single channel. However buying a 2x2 kit and another 2x2 kit down the road can make overclocking a little more difficult if you're trying to push clocks to the absolute max. Hybrid drives are a waste, you're better off waiting for a SSD. The OS will already use your memory as a temporary cache and do it a lot faster than a hybrid drive. For an Air cooler the MUX seems overpriced. You're not going to see much of a difference between that and say a 30$ Hyper 212 Plus. I know ME carries the 212+, someone a page or two ago suggested an air cooler that cools a tiny bit better than the 212 for 5-10$ less. I see a 212 at bestdirect for 25$ too.

I see an i5 760 for 194.99. or the same price from NCIX. Also that power supply is overkill. A solid 550W will give you more headroom than you'd ever need for less money. If you want to see if there are any lower prices I use shopbot.ca, pricegrabber.ca, pricecanada.com.

That is very helpful actually. I haven't built computers personally since 1996-2003 (Celeron 333 processor, baby! I took her to the Moon and back!)

Anyways, the information of the Hybrid Drives was great as was the powersupply and heatsink information. I saw that NCIX deal with the 760 Motherboard with the i5. I haven't done enough research to make sure that is a great combo to OC, but I do not see why it wouldn't.

And thanks for the heads up with ME. Hopefully they won't be too much trouble but the information is helpful in advance. Cheers sir!

 

[Shambles]

That is very helpful actually. I haven't built computers personally since 1996-2003 (Celeron 333 processor, baby! I took her to the Moon and back!)

Anyways, the information of the Hybrid Drives was great as was the powersupply and heatsink information. I saw that NCIX deal with the 760 Motherboard with the i5. I haven't done enough research to make sure that is a great combo to OC, but I do not see why it wouldn't.

And thanks for the heads up with ME. Hopefully they won't be too much trouble but the information is helpful in advance. Cheers sir!

I also just noticed your motherboard does not support USB3 or SATA3 which you will want even if you don't use it now for future compatibility. I think that for the most part i5's can get to 3.8 fairly easily on most boards, I wouldn't stick with an outdated board just for that. Whatever is highly rated on newegg for your socket, price range, and that includes USB3/Sata3 should work better. Perhaps something like this, the egg has it for 5$ cheaper, other sites might have it cheaper still. I've yet to build a 1156 platform, perhaps some other members can make MB recommendations

 

[Ashhong]

bumpp

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Gaf I gotta potential deal on this for $130? What's the consensus on this card?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002ASSUN4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[darthbob]

Gaf I gotta potential deal on this for $130? What's the consensus on this card?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002ASSUN4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Good freakin' deal.

It's on par with a GTX460-470 if benchmark comparisons serve me. Sadly, no Dx11.

 

[Mutagenic]

Now that we're approaching winter here in the states, if anyone has a good solution for battery-backup/surge protection for my relatively new PC and my 50" plasma tv I'd appreciate it. I've had fried motherboards and power supples in the past and I'm looking to avoid that from here on out.

 

[Le-mo]

Looks like my video card doesn't support DVI-Sub connectivity, which came with my monitor. I'll have to purchase a DVI-D plug. If I were to turn my computer on how would I know everthing is working the way its supposed to without the monitor?

 

[Jinaar]

I also just noticed your motherboard does not support USB3 or SATA3 which you will want even if you don't use it now for future compatibility. I think that for the most part i5's can get to 3.8 fairly easily on most boards, I wouldn't stick with an outdated board just for that. Whatever is highly rated on newegg for your socket, price range, and that includes USB3/Sata3 should work better. Perhaps something like this, the egg has it for 5$ cheaper, other sites might have it cheaper still. I've yet to build a 1156 platform, perhaps some other members can make MB recommendations

USB3 point taken. As well as the SATA3. I'm not familiar with the benefits of SATA3 (assumptions are obviously speed related though), so I will read up on it and try to locate a 1156 board that I can benefit from future proofing the rig as best as possible. Thanks again, Shambles!

 

[Shambles]

USB3 point taken. As well as the SATA3. I'm not familiar with the benefits of SATA3 (assumptions are obviously speed related though), so I will read up on it and try to locate a 1156 board that I can benefit from future proofing the rig as best as possible. Thanks again, Shambles!

SATA 3, aka SATA 6Gbps, is the connection for hard drives. It can have twice the throughput of SATA2 (Sata 3Gbps). This does not matter for traditional hard disks as they don't come close to the 3Gbps barrier of SATA2. However SSD's are starting to actually make use of the 6Gbps connections and as the tech progress I would expect it to become commonplace over the life of your build. Worst case scenario you can always use an add-on card for USB/SATA3 but it's a lot more convenient to just have it on the motherboard. You'll only see boards with a couple of each connection as the specs haven't been integrated into AMDs and Intels chipsets. Intel isn't expected to adopt USB3 for a long time so it's not worth waiting for them.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Yes. I'm running an OC'd Phenom II/GTX 460 on some crappy old Sparkle 400W PSU at this very moment stress testing it. Also the GPU with come with a 2x molex to 6 pin PCIE adapter. You only need to make sure your PSU has 1 6 pin PCIE connector.

The 6870 and 460 both require two 6-pin PCIe power connectors if I remember correctly, make sure your power supply has two before biting. The 6850 only requires one (I think, double check me on this). 460w should be enough for the 6850 but it might be pushing it for the 460 or 6870. I'm hesitant because the X6 processor uses a little more juice than your average LGA 1156 i5 or i7.

Thanks for the responses.

Well, my system has a 5870 as an available upgrade, using the same power supply, so it must have the 2 6-pin connectors since the 5870 requires them.


The 6850 is starting to look like the best choice for me. It performs nearly as well as the 6870 in the benchmarks I'm looking at, and is achieving double the framerates of my 5770 in some tests, all for about $200.

Is this the best bang for the buck in that ~$200 price range? If I'd be better off payign a little more for something better I'm open to suggestions.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Is this the best bang for the buck in that ~$200 price range? If I'd be better off payign a little more for something better I'm open to suggestions.

Value-wise, get the 6870 if you're playing 1920x1080, and a 6850 if you're at 1680x1050.

 

[Shambles]

Thanks for the responses.

Well, my system has a 5870 as an available upgrade, using the same power supply, so it must have the 2 6-pin connectors since the 5870 requires them.


The 6850 is starting to look like the best choice for me. It performs nearly as well as the 6870 in the benchmarks I'm looking at, and is achieving double the framerates of my 5770 in some tests, all for about $200.

Is this the best bang for the buck in that ~$200 price range? If I'd be better off payign a little more for something better I'm open to suggestions.

What I meant is that as long as your PSU has 1 PCIE 6-pin connection you can make use of the 2molex->PCIE 6 pin adapter that invariably comes with the GPU. That's how i'm running a 460 on my 400W PSU. Of course I also have no molex plugs available now too :lol

 

[LaserBuddha]

I'm at 1920x1080 so I'll probably go for the 6870. Thanks guys!

 

[teiresias]

SATA 3, aka SATA 6Gbps, is the connection for hard drives. It can have twice the throughput of SATA2 (Sata 3Gbps). This does not matter for traditional hard disks as they don't come close to the 3Gbps barrier of SATA2. However SSD's are starting to actually make use of the 6Gbps connections and as the tech progress I would expect it to become commonplace over the life of your build. Worst case scenario you can always use an add-on card for USB/SATA3 but it's a lot more convenient to just have it on the motherboard. You'll only see boards with a couple of each connection as the specs haven't been integrated into AMDs and Intels chipsets. Intel isn't expected to adopt USB3 for a long time so it's not worth waiting for them.

I'd add in the caveat that from my reading around the net, the most common controller that mobo manufacturers are using for SATA3 doesn't apparently support the TRIM command for SSDs. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Jin34]

I'd add in the caveat that from my reading around the net, the most common controller that mobo manufacturers are using for SATA3 doesn't apparently support the TRIM command for SSDs. Just something to keep in mind.

Whoa were did you read this?

 

[LegoDad]

I just bought an i7-970!

Can't wait till it shows up and I can build my very first computer!

 

[amrod]

I'm at 1920x1080 so I'll probably go for the 6870. Thanks guys!

great card i got it all games run perfect at that res max'd out
have yet to have one that will lag it at 1920

 

[Mr Nightman]

Finally got the gtx 460 working, man bad co 2 looks amazing, and at 50-60Fps

 

[darthbob]

Finally got the gtx 460 working, man bad co 2 looks amazing, and at 50-60Fps

What res are you runnin' at?

Also, be sure to crank that AA. 32xCSAA is god.

 

[Azzurri]

Who's waiting on Sandy Bridge?

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

Sandy Bridge

Am i the only 1 who giggles to this ? :lol

 

[Felix Lighter]

I just bought an i7-970!

Can't wait till it shows up and I can build my very first computer!

That's a beast of a CPU, be sure to overclock it. What are the other components? You'd probably need dual GTX 580s to keep it a balanced rig.

 

[Azzurri]

Am i the only 1 who giggles to this ? :lol

No, it's like an ugly fat chicks name. :lol :lol

 

[flyinpiranha]

Who's waiting on Sandy Bridge?

I am, just to see what they offer pricewise. I know some prices have been released but hopefully I can grab a bundle deal on Newegg or something. I'm thinking of getting the Core i7 2600 and a good Mobo that can Xfire my current HD 6870 with another. I'm just not sure though, when that stuff drops the current stuff is going to drop in price too and I might be able to get by with a 2X6870 and just something like the Q9550 will drop a lot (hopefully) ... but who knows ...

It really depends on what prices are at if I want to make the jump to the new stuff.

I might go all out with SSD and the i7 2600, add another HD6870 and just use my current HDD's for media ... what to do, what to do ...

 

[LegoDad]

That's a beast of a CPU, be sure to overclock it. What are the other components? You'd probably need dual GTX 580s to keep it a balanced rig.

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - $90

PNY XLR8 VCGGTX4601XPB-OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) OC 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card $180 - $30 MIR = $150

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 ... $80 - $25 MIR = $55

ASUS Sabertooth X58 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - $180

Kingston HyperX KHX-FAN Fans - Free

Nvidia Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X 2 Game Coupon - Gift PC Game - Free

OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - $120 - 25 MIR = $95

Rosewill RCR-IC001 40-in-1 USB 2.0 3.5" Internal Card Reader w/ USB Port / Extra Silver Face Plate - $8

Kingston HyperX 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model KHX1600C9D3K3/6GX - $105 - $30 MIR = $75

SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model TS-H663C/UOAH - OEM - $16

Intel i7-970 - $215

Civilization 5 - Free

Antec 300 - $47

Total after MIR = $931

Wanted to stay under $1000 which I did. Might buy a Blu-ray burner with MIR.



Also got Windows 7 Ultimate for $15. :lol

 

[Wthermans]

Who's waiting on Sandy Bridge?

I am.

Upgrading from:

E6750 (stock speeds)
P5K Deluxe
2GB Corsair XMS2 PC2-3200 DDR2
evga Core 216 GTX 260

I'm hoping to build a rig with at least the 2600 (preferably the 2600k), a SATA3/USB3.0 mobo, 120GB SSD, 1TB Storage, 6-8GB RAM, GTX 580 or 570 and I'd like to get an Antec P183 to match the P180 that my current rig is in.

 

[Drkirby]

How did you get Civ 5 for free :/

 

[LegoDad]

How did you get Civ 5 for free :/

Came with the $215 i7-970.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - $90

PNY XLR8 VCGGTX4601XPB-OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) OC 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card $180 - $30 MIR = $150

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 ... $80 - $25 MIR = $55

ASUS Sabertooth X58 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - $180

Kingston HyperX KHX-FAN Fans - Free

Nvidia Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X 2 Game Coupon - Gift PC Game - Free

OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - $120 - 25 MIR = $95

Rosewill RCR-IC001 40-in-1 USB 2.0 3.5" Internal Card Reader w/ USB Port / Extra Silver Face Plate - $8

Kingston HyperX 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model KHX1600C9D3K3/6GX - $105 - $30 MIR = $75

SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model TS-H663C/UOAH - OEM - $16

Intel i7-970 - $215

Civilization 5 - Free

Antec 300 - $47

Total after MIR = $931

Wanted to stay under $1000 which I did. Might buy a Blu-ray burner with MIR.



Also got Windows 7 Ultimate for $15. :lol

What's with these crazy deals? It's not exactly balanced but at that price, you'd be nuts to pass it up. At some point you could just throw in another GTX 460.

 

[Mr Nightman]

What res are you runnin' at?

Also, be sure to crank that AA. 32xCSAA is god.

Running at 1920x1080 only 16x currently will try 32x

 

[LegoDad]

What's with these crazy deals? It's not exactly balanced but at that price, you'd be nuts to pass it up. At some point you could just throw in another GTX 460.

SSD = Black Friday

Intel i7 = Retail Edge

Windows 7 = Expert Zone (Already own Windows 7 professional from student purchase at $20.)

What's with these crazy deals? It's not exactly balanced but at that price, you'd be nuts to pass it up. At some point you could just throw in another GTX 460.

I've been told it won't be balanced but the 460 will do what I want it to do, Civ 5, with the ability to upgrade the graphics card later down the road when it becomes the bottleneck.

 

[TheExodu5]

The only thing I might criticize is the case. I mean, it's not a bad case, but I'm not sure how much airflow it's going to be delivering to your CPU. At least you don't have a very hot GPU.

Ridiculous deals all around though. Very jealous.

edit: oh the 300 does have a top fan...forgot about that. It'll probably be fine. edit2: And 2 intakes. Yeah ignore me, I'm being dumb.

 

[Azzurri]

Don't those new sandy bridge Mobo's only have 1 PCI-e 16x or something only allowing 1 GPU card, or something like that?

 

[Felix Lighter]

SSD = Black Friday

Intel i7 = Retail Edge

Windows 7 = Expert Zone (Already own Windows 7 professional from student purchase at $20.)



I've been told it won't be balanced but the 460 will do what I want it to do, Civ 5, with the ability to upgrade the graphics card later down the road when it becomes the bottleneck.

Congrats on the awesome new rig. Be sure to post some pics when it's built.

Edit: Ugh, I missed that deal. I just payed $190 for 120 GB SSD.

 

[LegoDad]

Congrats on the awesome new rig. Be sure to post some pics when it's built.

With it being my first, the wiring will be horrible.. lol

 

[LegoDad]

The only thing I might criticize is the case. I mean, it's not a bad case, but I'm not sure how much airflow it's going to be delivering to your CPU. At least you don't have a very hot GPU.

Ridiculous deals all around though. Very jealous.

edit: oh the 300 does have a top fan...forgot about that. It'll probably be fine. edit2: And 2 intakes. Yeah ignore me, I'm being dumb.

First thing I looked at was air flow, thanks for the double check, as it's the only thing I haven't bought yet.

 

[TheExodu5]

With it being my first, the wiring will be horrible.. lol

You can't make the wiring look nice with a 300, since there's no cable management, sadly.

First thing I looked at was air flow, thanks for the double check, as it's the only thing I haven't bought yet.

Since you haven't bought the case yet, may I suggest alternatives?

 

[Drkirby]

Came with the $215 i7-970.

Figured that.

I plan to upgrade my computer like so over the next year or two (Now if only the parts get here, UPS better deliver both boxes and not just the Case tommrow or I will be pissed)

Short Term:
1. Get Cooling System to help overclock CPU
2. Get Card Slot Reader

Mid Term:
1. New Video Card (And use the 'old' one as a dedicated PhsyX card)
2. Second Hard Drive, 500GB-1GB

Long Term:
1) Sandy Bridge Mother Board and CPU
2) Small Solid State HDD for Windows and such

Maybe? (Mid/Long Term):
1) Up the 4GB to 8GB of Ram
2) Blu-Ray Drive

Anything else?

So, what would be a cheap $25-$50 cooling system to use for my AMD Phenom II X4 925? I know people were talking about some $25 fan on Amazon they said was a good deal, but I am going to assume thats likely not on sale now.

Oh, also, whats size screwdrivers are commonly used to install this stuff, I don't really have a propper tool set and don't want to strip anything by mistake.

 

[LegoDad]

You can't make the wiring look nice with a 300, since there's no cable management, sadly.



Since you haven't bought the case yet, may I suggest alternatives?

Go ahead, open to alternatives, was just going to purchase the 300 at Best Buy, as I would get an employee discount.. lol, I don't know anything about cases, that's about the only thing.

 

[Double D]

caliblue - where did you find the GTX 460 for $150?

 

[LegoDad]

caliblue - where did you find the GTX 460 for $150?

Was on newegg.com on black friday with MIR.

 

[TheExodu5]

Go ahead, open to alternatives, was just going to purchase the 300 at Best Buy, as I would get an employee discount.. lol, I don't know anything about cases, that's about the only thing.

The 300 is a decent case for budget builds. Given the quality of the hardware you're installing, I'd just probably suggest something a little better. Air flow, cable management, and easy of installation are all benefits of a better case.

If you want to stay moderately cheap and compact, there's the Cooler Master Scout:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...re=cooler_master_scout-_-11-119-196-_-Product

If you want a slightly more elegant look, there's the Cooler Master CM 690 II:

Advanced:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ooler_master_cm_690_ii-_-11-119-216-_-Product

(get the Advanced, as opposed to the Basic, as it includes 2x 140MM front and top fans as opposed to a single 120mm front fan, as well as other bonuses like a 2.5 SSD adapter)

If you don't mind its aggressive look, it's hard to beat the Cooler Master HAF 922 in terms of airflow:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=cooler_master_haf_922-_-11-119-197-_-Product

If you rather stick with Antec (nicer build quality, but less user-friendly design), there's the Antec Nine Hundred Two:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129058&Tpk=antec 902


All of these cases will run you nearly $50 more, but I guarantee they're worth it. Nothing quite as frustrating as working in a tiny cramped case. With cases that have nice cable management, changing and upgrading components is a breeze.

 

[LegoDad]

If you don't mind its aggressive look, it's hard to beat the Cooler Master HAF 922 in terms of airflow:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=cooler_master_haf_922-_-11-119-197-_-Product

If you rather stick with Antec (nicer build quality, but less user-friendly design), there's the Antec Nine Hundred Two:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129058&Tpk=antec 902


All of these cases will run you nearly $50 more, but I guarantee they're worth it. Nothing quite as frustrating as working in a tiny cramped case. With cases that have nice cable management, changing and upgrading components is a breeze.

I would probably upgrade to the 902 (can buy with discount at best buy) or the HAF 922.

I love the look of the HAF 922, but don't really want to spend $100 on a case, unless it's really going to make the installation a breeze.

Does the 902 have any cable management at all?

 

[Spiderjericho]

I plan on buying the high-end Sandy Bridge processor if the price is true.

 

[TheExodu5]

I would probably upgrade to the 902 (can buy with discount at best buy) or the HAF 922.

I love the look of the HAF 922, but don't really want to spend $100 on a case, unless it's really going to make the installation a breeze.

Does the 902 have any cable management at all?

The 902 does, but the holes are rather small and it's hard to get much in behind there. I've seen some really nice cable jobs with it though, so it's certainly possible if you work at it.

The HAF 922 is an incredible case to work with. I built my cousin's PC a month ago in it and it's the easiest build I've done to date. Tons and tons of room to route cables in the back, and the case is quite deep, with room enough to fit any graphics card in existence without a fuss. The case also looks quite stunning in person, imo. My only real complain is that the interior isn't sexy and black like the 902.

The 902 is a really beautiful case too though, and does has benefits like better dust filtering. What it lacks is tool-less and perpendicular HDD bays, a button to turn the LEDs off (the HAF 922 LED can be turned off with the switch on top of the case), and it is significantly more cramped (which is bad for installation and working with the case, but good for keeping it more compact). The 902 is also lacking a CPU cutout for the installation of the back bracket for most after market heatsinks (and probably the retail i7 970 heatsink).

 

[slamskank]

hey folks, looking for some advice for a build for my roommate. The case, gpu and hard drive he's getting from me (antec p182, gtx 260 core 216, and a 640gb 7200rpm samsung) and the rest I'm getting from NCIX (we're in Canada so prices are a bit different) Any thoughts on changes you'd make to this list would be appreciated. I put it together a few days back so prices may have changed. Anyways, here it is:



Gigabyte H55M-S2V mATX LGA1156 H55 - $83.99

Corsair XMS3 DDR3 2X2GB DDR3-1600 CL 9-9-9-24 Core i5 - $56.49

Intel Core i5 760 Quad Core Processor Lynnfield LGA1156 2.8GHZ 8MB Cache - $195.99

OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W ATX 20/24PIN SLI Ready Modular Cables 135mm Fan 80PLUS Power Supply - $69.99 (There was an MIR for this at the time, may need to revise)

He's going to be playing wow and eve online and the like, but I'll likely get him into some more demanding games later. Resolution he'll be using is 1680x1050.

 

[LegoDad]

i hopefully won't be using an LED light.. :lol

The tool-less sounds cool, but I've taken apart computers before so it isn't that big of a hassle. what's the deal with no perpendicular drive bays, that sounds like a given.