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[LectureMaster]

Doom, Quake Developers Form Wall-to-wall Union at id Software - IGN

165 workers at id Software, the studio behind the Doom and Quake franchises, have elected to unionize with the Communications Workers of America (CWA) in yet another wall-to-wall developer union within Microsoft.

www.ign.com

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165 workers at id Software, the studio behind the Doom and Quake franchises, have elected to unionize with the Communications Workers of America (CWA) in yet another wall-to-wall developer union within Microsoft.

The new union encompasses developers, artists, programmers, and other disciplines, and has been formally recognized by Microsoft in accordance with its pledge to remain "neutral" with regard to unions within its ranks and voluntarily recognize any that emerge. Union members suggest issues of concern for the group include the instability of the games industry writ large, as well as the necessity of remote work.

"I'm very proud to be a part of this effort to organize our studio, to have a voice in decisions that directly affect myself and my coworkers," said senior VFX artist and organizing committee member Caroline Pierrot. "In an industry that has proven to be very unstable over the last few years, more unions means more power to the workers and a real shot at shaping the future of the industry for the better."

Microsoft has seen a cascade of new unions formed at its game studios in recent years, a large number of which have been under its most recent acquisition, Activision Blizzard. Diablo developers unionized this past August, as did Blizzard's story and franchise development team, the entire World of Warcraft team unionized last year, and the Overwatch developers followed in May of this year. Meanwhile, Raven Software workers won their first contract earlier this year, Zenimax QA workers won a contract in May, and Bethesda's union is still in active negotiations.

 

[LectureMaster]

Congrats, I look forward to y'all winning more accessibility awards in the future.

 

[ProtoByte]

They will be shut down in 5 years.

 

[Clear]

Yeah, they're re-shaping the industry for sure... in an overseas direction!

 

[Mortisfacio]

When id eventually gets shut down, people will say it's an attack on unions while ignoring the id is nothing like what it used to be and led to their irrelevancy.

 

[Kuranghi]

I still don't understand if unions are an overall good thing or not, I've never had a job where it would've been relevant and have read about the pro and cons minimally. I imagine it varies whether you're in the UK or US as well, and even then a case by case basis?

In my narrow view the pros seem to be better worker protection/ability to request increase of pay when stagnation happens via striking or the like, but the cons are keeping shit people in a job they don't deserve. I'm sure there were more cons but I can't remember rn.

What else is "bad" about unions? I'm not on either side here I'm asking for objective opinions, "bad" side first since I know less of those.

For example that Rockstar story sounds really bad and unfair, but then wasn't it like genuinely a technicality where they shared data with outsider that was against the terms of their job? Of course they could just be using that as a reason to fire them because they didn't want a union to form, since it was very convenient.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Kacho]

 

[V2Tommy]

Shame. Unions should be illegal. It's like communism for employees that people willingly pay dues for.

 

[PeteBull]

They will be shut down in 5 years.

With how quick mr nuttella closing those studios/lays off ppl i give it 1 more game, after it flops devteam will be laid off/studio closed.

 

[ReBurn]

This is good for CWA revenue. Probably makes no difference for the employees.

 

[jmiller180]

Players should unionize and demand better games from them. TDA was a step back in many ways.

 

[xanaum]

Now the employees just have to wait for the studio to get shut down. If it were me, I'd already be looking for another place to work. Microsoft isn't gonna keep this going, they've fired people for way less.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Shame. Unions should be illegal. It's like communism for employees that people willingly pay dues for.

In todays world where every state has laws now that far surpass what unions fought for, yeah, they're now a vehicle for other means, like seizing said production and kickbacks to higher ups. Politically, etc..

Now the employees just have to wait for the studio to get shut down. If it were me, I'd already be looking for another place to work. Microsoft isn't gonna keep this going, they've fired people for way less.

Especially a company run off of an H1B and 18 month contractor model.

 

[ByWatterson]

I look forward to the fresh, Japan-developed version of Doom.

 

[Saber]

Brace yourselves for more studio closures.

 

[Trekinspace88]

Good I'm all for employees fighting for their rights.

 

[StueyDuck]

Welp... but explains why the new IDtech is poorly optimized on PC if they hiring those types

 

[Kacho]

Good I'm all for employees fighting for their rights.

What rights did they lack before?

 

[Magic Carpet]

I look forward to the fresh, Japan-developed version of Doom.

Chibi-fied Doom. Anime girls with guns. the helmets might need to go.

 

[Gamer79]

AAA needs a complete tear down. Too much woke bullshit and greedy business going on in AAA gaming or what I like to call Corporate gaming.

You will always have the Madden or Call of Duty cucks blowing hundreds on DLC and virtual items but the vast majority are saying fuck that shit.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I have no idea what its like in the gaming industry, but I'm a software engineer in another industry. There is a VAST gulf between great engineers vs average ones. If you're one of the good ones, employers will practically throw money and benefits at you to keep you there.

I sure as hell would not want to be lumped into some collective bargaining arrangement with everyone else. Seems like a great way to get the talented ones to leave.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What rights did they lack before?

The right to not be fired for being complacent due to "tenure."

 

[adamsapple]

Good for them.

 

[Kacho]

Good for them.

Bookmarked

 

[adamsapple]

Bookmarked

I mean you don't have to, lol.

Even if it leads to something bad a few years later, it was a collective agreement between the staff. Whatever happens is on them.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I mean you don't have to, lol.

Even if it leads to something bad a few years later, it was a collective agreement between the staff. Whatever happens is on them.

Baasically,

 

[Mortisfacio]

I still don't understand if unions are an overall good thing or not, I've never had a job where it would've been relevant and have read about the pro and cons minimally. I imagine it varies whether you're in the UK or US as well, and even then a case by case basis?

In my narrow view the pros seem to be better worker protection/ability to request increase of pay when stagnation happens via striking or the like, but the cons are keeping shit people in a job they don't deserve. I'm sure there were more cons but I can't remember rn.

What else is "bad" about unions? I'm not on either side here I'm asking for objective opinions, "bad" side first since I know less of those.

For example that Rockstar story sounds really bad and unfair, but then wasn't it like genuinely a technicality where they shared data with outsider that was against the terms of their job? Of course they could just be using that as a reason to fire them because they didn't want a union to form, since it was very convenient.

I worked government union for about 6 years. Private sector the rest of my career and non-union.

Unions have served a purpose historically, but pretty much everything they fought for that I think was a positive is now state or federal law in the US.

My personal experience with government unions is overall negative, but the more egregious have been things like fighting to protect employment of taxpayer funded employees who are watching porn during work hours or help desk calling themselves to keep their lines busy. These are people who should simply be fired, would in a non-union job, but the unions filed to protect these people at taxpayers expense. I hate that.

Then the more overall issues like "We got you a raise! Hurray! Union strong!... also.... we increased the % of your paycheck that goes to union dues..." that grew to be annoying. I'm good at my job so I opted to go private and non-union and it's been great. The only thing I miss about my union experience is overtime being optional. I've put in a lot more hours, but I'm compensated appropriately. Just sometimes I miss having a standard 40 hour week and no matter how critical the problem or outage might have been, it's not my problem if I don't want it to be.

 

[adamsapple]

Baasically,

Basically.

It's better that the staff has autonomy to decide this shit for themselves so they're the one's responsible no matter good or bad.

 

[Clear]

The reality is simple: These companies value IP more than talent and workforce, who are just the means by which to actualize the IP value. Unions will increase costs, and therefore development will be relocated to cheaper locales.

The quality of titles coming out of China particularly just shows that talent isn't an issue, and they'll transition piecemeal so its not immediately apparent what's going on,

 

[Kacho]

I mean you don't have to, lol.

Even if it leads to something bad a few years later, it was a collective agreement between the staff. Whatever happens is on them.

Fair point.

 

[Baki]

I still don't understand if unions are an overall good thing or not, I've never had a job where it would've been relevant and have read about the pro and cons minimally. I imagine it varies whether you're in the UK or US as well, and even then a case by case basis?

In my narrow view the pros seem to be better worker protection/ability to request increase of pay when stagnation happens via striking or the like, but the cons are keeping shit people in a job they don't deserve. I'm sure there were more cons but I can't remember rn.

What else is "bad" about unions? I'm not on either side here I'm asking for objective opinions, "bad" side first since I know less of those.

For example that Rockstar story sounds really bad and unfair, but then wasn't it like genuinely a technicality where they shared data with outsider that was against the terms of their job? Of course they could just be using that as a reason to fire them because they didn't want a union to form, since it was very convenient.

It depends, unions cost 8% of your pay check. It's a positive if it can give you benefits and salary >8% of your paycheck. Pretty useful in blue collar roles, less useful in competitive roles where you're probably get top market rate salary anyways.

Now, in terms of government roles, unions are bad for tax payers. They hinder progress and efficiency.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Basically.

It's better that the staff has autonomy to decide this shit for themselves so they're the one's responsible no matter good or bad.

True to a point. I don't know about "better," however. There is a reason you don't let the clowns run the circus or the inmates the asylum.

Especially when it comes to the balancing act of protecting jobs and billion dollar properties.

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

Listen, I have been a member of 3 different unions and in all 3 they did nothing for me that I couldn't already do through current laws and regulations. They took money from my paychecks for dues and they protected the type of employees that we would have been better off losing anyways. This is only my lived experience, but I don't see how this is good for their games as it ends up putting more focus and red tape on things that dont even matter. I second the opinion that in 5 years the studio is in trouble. We're not saving people from mining in the Congo here, building Nikes in a sweatshop, or assembling iphones for 13 cents a day.

 

[Ar¢tos]

What rights did they lack before?

It's very easy for employers to legally abuse workers. Most of the times they aren't fighting for rights they don't have, but to enforce the rights they have on paper.
I found myself in a really bad situation once when I was working for a supermarket chain, they were "legally" forcing me to do my boss job with no extra pay and withholding my holidays and only after I joined an Union and their lawyer sent them a threatening letter the abuse stopped.
They provide counselling for workers and negotiate rights and work conditions in the name of workers. Not all unions are shams.

 

[Mortisfacio]

Listen, I have been a member of 3 different unions and in all 3 they did nothing for me that I couldn't already do through current laws and regulations. They took money from my paychecks for dues and they protected the type of employees that we would have been better off losing anyways. This is only my lived experience, but I don't see how this is good for their games as it ends up putting more focus and red tape on things that dont even matter. I second the opinion that in 5 years the studio is in trouble. We're not saving people from mining in the Congo here, building Nikes in a sweatshop, or assembling iphones for 13 cents a day.

Out of curiosity, what type of unions? Government? Grocers? Trade? My experience with two government unions is they're terrible, but I have friends in trade unions (construction) that insist they're different and better.

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

Out of curiosity, what type of unions? Government? Grocers? Trade? My experience with two government unions is they're terrible, but I have friends in trade unions (construction) that insist they're different and better.

Auto-workers union, trade union, and teachers union. I can't stress enough how they screwed over companies by fighting on behalf of employees that straight up shouldn't even be there. Drinking on the job, bonehead accidents and the like. It was almost impossible to get rid of dead weight and dragged our whole operations down.

 

[SHAKEZ]

Their new "Doom" is in development it seems...

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

RIP iD when Satya decides to do another round of layoffs.

 

[BennyBlanco]

It depends, unions cost 8% of your pay check. It's a positive if it can give you benefits and salary >8% of your paycheck. Pretty useful in blue collar roles, less useful in competitive roles where you're probably get top market rate salary anyways.

Now, in terms of government roles, unions are bad for tax payers. They hinder progress and efficiency.

My brother is a union iron worker and makes a fortune. It is dependent entirely on the line of work you're in.

For blue collar guys it is a very good thing.

 

[Branded]

Welp, DOOM had a good run.

 

[Skyfox]

Work in a great company and then watch a tiny amount of selfish managers ruin it for absolutely everyone and you'll understand why unions form.

 

[Unknown?]

In todays world where every state has laws now that far surpass what unions fought for, yeah, they're now a vehicle for other means, like seizing said production and kickbacks to higher ups. Politically, etc..


Especially a company run off of an H1B and 18 month contractor model.

At the very least it should be illegal for them to fund campaigns and recommend politicians.

 

[viveks86]

DOOMed

 

[Topher]

I'm a software developer. What the fuck do I need a union for? Safe working conditions? I sit in a comfy chair in an air conditioned office. I have zero reasons to give a union a dime of my money.

 

[Kacho]

It's very easy for employers to legally abuse workers. Most of the times they aren't fighting for rights they don't have, but to enforce the rights they have on paper.
I found myself in a really bad situation once when I was working for a supermarket chain, they were "legally" forcing me to do my boss job with no extra pay and withholding my holidays and only after I joined an Union and their lawyer sent them a threatening letter the abuse stopped.
They provide counselling for workers and negotiate rights and work conditions in the name of workers. Not all unions are shams.

Oh I'm sure there are good ones. I've just never experienced it. I think unions are good idea in theory but they ultimately lead to rot.

I have my own anecdotes about unions. The workers I've dealt with were lazy, entitled, argumentative, and all-around worthless. Not a fan.

 

[Sticks]

My little dark age

 

[JCK75]

Shame. Unions should be illegal. It's like communism for employees that people willingly pay dues for.

It's like.. the right is meant to be used as.. "things really are messed up here and they need to change.. let's pool together and make some reasonable demands"
it's turned into a legal Mafia.

 

[Zacfoldor]

It's a strange world we live in that the existence of a union is needed.

We have made life too complicated.

 

[bender]

I'm a software developer. What the fuck do I need a union for? Safe working conditions? I sit in a comfy chair in an air conditioned office. I have zero reasons to give a union a dime of my money.

To protect you from crunch. Plus uncle Tony has a family to feed.