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[SkylineRKR]

I was with an union for 2 years or so. They basically do nothing. They take money (18 euros month, but you can get returns on tax), and they only support you after 18 months of membership. The things they do is advise you to seek a lawyer. Pretty much things you can do on your own.

They do fight for higher wages, More day offs etc. But everyone is entitled to these changes.

But basically, if a boss decides to fuck you over, an Union doesnt really matter.

 

[FingerBang]

Unions are great on paper if your understanding of the market is stuck to the 19th century. They serve no purpose in the current economy and in the end, make things worse for everyone. They bring the kind of regulation that makes hiring harder while forcing human capital (and money) to be wasted on things that don't bring a good return.

They can have SOME KIND of sense for factory workers for negotiating better conditions, but for White collar jobs?

If you don't like it, leave and find another job. If you can't find another job in the same field, change field.

I know plenty of devs who left gaming because they don't like the long working hours. The reason ther is crunch, is that there's always a 22 year old willing to work for peanuts 80 hours a week just to make games. The reason testers aren't values is because there's a ton of supply. A union won't fucking solve that.

 

[Solarstrike]

Unions built nations, especially the United States. There's so many cement shoes you could open a shoe store

 

[PlayStaytion]

Now make the doom guy more bad ass.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Paid maternity leave for at least 39 weeks at full pay.

Euros get 39 weeks of maternity leave and they still aren't having babies

 

[Roni]

I'm a software developer. What the fuck do I need a union for? Safe working conditions? I sit in a comfy chair in an air conditioned office. I have zero reasons to give a union a dime of my money.

You still haven't noticed corporations screw over workers whenever it's convenient for them? C'mon, now...

 

[IDKFA]

Euros get 39 weeks of maternity leave and they still aren't having babies

It varies between counties, but that is around the average in the UK.

However, you have to consider other costs. Childcare is insanely expensive here and can cost almost at the high end of £1000 per month.

 

[Signalis]

What will actually happen now that they are unionised? Work less, complain less, extort the company? Makes better games?

 

[Topher]

You still haven't noticed corporations screw over workers whenever it's convenient for them? C'mon, now...

That's why I don't work for mega-corporations. You really think the CWA is going to prevent workers from getting screwed over? C'mon now

 

[Roni]

That's why I don't work for mega-corporations. You really think the CWA is going to prevent workers from getting screwed over? C'mon now

Great, you don't. Other people do; and they need the unions.

And, yeah, unions do improve the the workers' bargaining power when contracts are drafted and when legal action is required.

 

[Felessan]

You still haven't noticed corporations screw over workers whenever it's convenient for them? C'mon, now...

You rather prefer get screwed by corporations and unions?

I see it as a scale where on one side is relatively safe but low pay job (blue collare, govt etc) and those unionized. On the other side is high pay high risk job, like those up-or-out ones (lawyers, financial markets, consultants etc) and they never unionized.

Where gamedev or IT in general go depends on them. Unionization means that in the long run they will be considered "average" and payment will be as if everyone is mediocre.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Unions built nations, especially the United States. There's so many cement shoes you could open a shoe store

 

[Roni]

You rather prefer get screwed by corporations and unions?

I see it as a scale where on one side is relatively safe but low pay job (blue collare, govt etc) and those unionized. On the other side is high pay high risk job, like those up-or-out ones (lawyers, financial markets, consultants etc) and they never unionized.

Where gamedev or IT in general go depends on them. Unionization means that in the long run they will be considered "average" and payment will be as if everyone is mediocre.

That's the same reductive argument used against government of the people, by the people, for the people.

"Government doesn't work, we need to get rid of it".

Yeah, government doesn't work; then we need to fix it. Not throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's the same with unions.

There's at least 2 millennia of written history with very clear examples of what happens to workers and the public when they aren't represented. I don't want to go back to that.

 

[AmuroChan]

As with most things in life, unions are not a blanket good or bad. There are good unions. There are incompetent unions. And there are corrupt unions. Second, unions are effective so long as they have leverage. Sports unions, for example, are highly effective unions because they have enormous leverage. You can't just replace a LeBron or Ohtani with someone else. In terms of skill sets, they're in the 0.000001% of the population. A union for fast food workers, on the other hand, has little to no leverage. That skill set is infinitely replaceable. The company can lay off half the staff and replace them with kiosks.

 

[Topher]

Great, you don't. Other people do; and they need the unions.

And, yeah, unions do improve the the workers' bargaining power when contracts are drafted and when legal action is required.

Yes, I was clearly talking about me. Other people can decide for themselves if they "need" a union or not. I don't see the need. For me, it starts with working for companies not known for fucking their employees over. I said later in this thread that yeah, folks working for Microsoft probably should be in a union. You'd think working for a $4 trillion corporation would mean more stability. Nope.

 

[Hypereides]

Its interesting how differently unions are perceived in the US compared to Europe.

 

[Felessan]

That's the same reductive argument used against government of the people, by the people, for the people.
"Government doesn't work, we need to get rid of it".
Yeah, government doesn't work; then we need to fix it. Not throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's the same with unions.

It's not like that. Some stuff should be equalized, and unionization is a part of it. Some stuff should be kept competitive and unions have no place there.
Personally I start to work in quite early It when it was a place for nerds - meaning "not for everyone" and everything reflected that - it was a job for dedicated and passionate, and very small compared to now - you either do or wtf are you doing here, go find a normies job (often complain in comparison of 90's gamedev to current age gamedev). Then I moved to trading and it's a zero-sum game "survival of the fittest" job. You can't unionize sheeps with wolves in zero-sum game as you return will be zero (negative as costs of operation exists). It doesn't even make sense to try make everyone stand on equal ground there.

Some areas are competitive by nature and it's really bad if they are being equalized to pretty shit levels.

There's at least 2 millennia of written history with very clear examples of what happens to workers and the public when they aren't represented. I don't want to go back to that.

And we know that communism failed hard as market strategy.
Communism is essentially unionization of all and it was a very bad choice.

 

[Dorago]

Unions only exist to contain productive energy and organization potential of talented young men.

Capital LOVES foisting this communist filth on any productive industry where drive and talent could once allow you to succeed.

The DEI push made at least 80% of the workforce in these companies unproductive, and I can't imagine how they are going to survive when labor costs go exponential.

 

[Roni]

And we know that communism failed hard as market strategy.
Communism is essentially unionization of all and it was a very bad choice.

Don't do that. Don't bring up a strawman that hasn't even been mentioned thus far in the conversation. I'm not defending communism here, unions can and have worked in free market democracies and that's exactly what we're talking about here. A lack of unions will realistically bolster corporations to lobby for less laws that protect workers and bring everyday people closer to modern slavery. Where the choice is between starving on the street or taking whatever job is available, regardless of how demeaning or unhealthy it is. Having unions doesn't take the world to the brink of global communism.

It's not like that. Some stuff should be equalized, and unionization is a part of it. Some stuff should be kept competitive and unions have no place there.
Personally I start to work in quite early It when it was a place for nerds - meaning "not for everyone" and everything reflected that - it was a job for dedicated and passionate, and very small compared to now - you either do or wtf are you doing here, go find a normies job (often complain in comparison of 90's gamedev to current age gamedev). Then I moved to trading and it's a zero-sum game "survival of the fittest" job. You can't unionize sheeps with wolves in zero-sum game as you return will be zero (negative as costs of operation exists). It doesn't even make sense to try make everyone stand on equal ground there.

Some areas are competitive by nature and it's really bad if they are being equalized to pretty shit levels.

Sheesh... This sheeps and wolves talk is a pretty blatant exposition of a mentality which doesn't hold all people to be equal. And an "us versus them" mentality is the foundation for appalling acts.

 

[Felessan]

Don't do that. Don't bring up a strawman that hasn't even been mentioned thus far in the conversation. I'm not defending communism here, unions can and have worked in free market democracies and that's exactly what we're talking about here. A lack of unions will realistically bolster corporations to lobby for less laws that protect workers and bring everyday people closer to modern slavery. Where the choice is between starving on the street or taking whatever job is available, regardless of how demeaning or unhealthy it is. Having unions doesn't take the world to the brink of global communism.

Like I said - unions are good in some areas and bad in others. And communism just shows how bad things are when every area covered by unions and everyone equalized
Unions are good for standardized jobs with relatively easily replaced personnel - so called massive professions.
Unions are usually bad for specialized/complex job as they often work on selection basis and for most of career path you are expected not only to perform your job, but also to grow and reach required skills/professionalism to be able do a really complex tasks associated with this job. And if you can't - you better go work in B/C grade companies or even change field.
It's like education works - there is a mandatory curriculum but everyone gets selected in the process, usually in school and then when going to university/doctorate and people graded by their abilities and determination/focus. And no one gives power to students to unionize and than equalize result of this grading as there is no point in scientist who struggle with school curriculum.

And besides - company can only fuck you if you need it more than company needs you. For up-or-out jobs those who remain cost company a lot of efforts to raise and it's a huge loss if they leave, so companies tends to not be too aggressive in people exploitation.

Sheesh... This sheeps and wolves talk is a pretty blatant exposition of a mentality which doesn't hold all people to be equal. And an "us versus them" mentality is the foundation for appalling acts.

And people are not equal, mother nature made it sure - people have vastly different abilities.
I am pro for equality where everyone can get the same opportunities and whether can you grab them or not is up to you.
I am not a fan of equity where no winners and everyone gets same participation trophy - it kills motivation to struggle and achieve.

 

[dgrdsv]

It's a shame a studio with such a good FPS engine has always limited itself to mostly Doom and Quake. Two massive downtrending kinds of shooter games. This isnt the 90s anymore when they were on everyone's top fav shooters lists. They could had made those Rage games into something bigger and better, but bailed on that series (unless they got a Rage 3 in the works). Or try a new shooter IP.

What's "Doom and Quake"? All games in Doom IP are different kinds of shooters (well, aside from 1+2). All Quake games are different types of shooters.
Doing a new IP just so that the name would be different is almost exactly what they've tried with Rage, and the result was mediocre. You can have the same game as a Quake or Doom game.
If you want them to stop doing what they know how to do best and do something else entirely then you're better of playing different games from other developers.

I dont know how adaptable id engines are, but just imagine if that slick engine could be used for RPGs or sci-fi games like ME. But I guess Bethesda's hitchy Gamebryo engine does complicated games like that.

id engines are used almost exclusively by id these days b/c they don't have the man power or financial backing to support 3rd party studios.
And tbh id Tech hasn't been very interesting since Carmack sold the company and left it to Bethesda to run.