IGN: Splatoon's lack of voice chat is "cheap and lazy"

probably for connection-strength purposes. that was the reason sakurai gave for smash specifically.

There are voice codecs today that will provide high quality voice at bitrates of 16 kbit/s. Even if you multiply that tenfold it's not unreasonable. Basically, if your connection is too weak to support voice chat it's too weak to support multiplayer at all.
 
Because your whole argument is built on a false premise. Having party chat at an OS level completely negates the absolute need for voice chat with randoms because your communication will be limited to those who are on your carefully protected friend list.

The issue I'm seeing in this thread is that a lot of people defending the lack of voice chat are completely ignoring the concept of party chat, which in fact, if they actually went online on PS4 and Xbox One, would make them realise has all but killed off voice chat because everyone just talks to their friends in private groups.
I think you misunderstand my views here, which is understandable since you probably didn't read all my posts. I'm not defending nintendos stance on voice chat overall. It is archaic at best. Party chat is awesome. My problem is hurling insults like 'cheap and lazy' at the splatoon dev team. It's bullshit. 'Misguided' or 'out of touch might be a more accurate descriptor here and one I largely agree with. 'Cheap and lazy' is something I would use to describe the quality of igns editorial, not Nintendos development process. The fact that they had to edit their article to defend their cheap remarks is a pretty clear indicator of the quality of their writing.
 
Turn-Based games allow you to take your turn and then step away from, or even turn off, the game until everyone else has had their turn. Game can span days/weeks/months, but that's not an issue since no one has to be online at the same time.

Real-Time games are generally brief sessions and even if they're long they can continue even if some of the players leave.

Mario Party requires everyone to be around to take their turn to progress, but doesn't allow you to leave because a mini-game that requires active participation will happen not only once everyone has had their turn, but can also happen randomly at any time.

If anyone stops playing then the game cannot progress.

It's like playing civilization except you have to sit your ass down and WATCH every turn, just in case.

If you schedule out a time for you and your friends to get together and play, it can work... until someone has to leave. Odds are most of your games will remain incomplete. And playing with randos is right out.

And the format change makes it much worse for it as now mid-turn minigames are frequent instead of just an ocassional thing.

Civilization? Maybe if mario parties turn based play was more like axis and allies instead of candy land.

Most of the games would remain incomplete because its horribly boring.

Fixing those problems is as easy as making multiple smaller game boards, and cutting out all the bs between event animations.

I dont see anything fixing the mario party being mario party problem though. I still cant really believe people want the game online in the first place. But what do i know, the thing still sells stupid numbers every entry. People love being complacent with the same old shit.
 
online modes aren't rated, are they?
I think it has more to do with what crowd will be buying it. If the game was rated T, Nintendo would probably take a different stance than now, as Splatoon is actually billed toward literal children playing, instead of just figuratively.
 
Civilization? Maybe if mario parties turn based play was more like axis and allies instead of candy land.

Most of the games would remain incomplete because its horribly boring.

Fixing those problems is as easy as making multiple smaller game boards, and cutting out all the bs between event animations.

I dont see anything fixing the mario party being mario party problem though. I still cant really believe people want the game online in the first place. But what do i know, the thing still sells stupid numbers every entry. People love being complacent with the same old shit.

Or perhaps making the changes that would actually make it a decent online game would make it, you know, a different game.
 
...For what it's worth, I don't think that the decision to not have voice chat is so much about the standard excuse of "protect the children!" or the straight-up profanity that seem to be the common targets. I don't believe it's so much the developers thinking about children so much as...the developers thinking about themselves. It's a process of thinking that was brought up in the Xenoblade X Iwata Asks, as a matter of fact, with one of the designers talking about the "loosely connected" online aspect of the game.

Iwata Asks said:
Yokota: Right. So, to make the atmosphere of the world livelier, we thought that it would be better to add an online mode so players can feel connected. However, we had to take into consideration that there might be players who are scared to communicate with other players. I'm actually afraid to do so myself! (laughs)

Takeda: Actually, me too! (laughs) I'm afraid of other players scolding me if I play poorly.

[...]

Iwata: (laughs) Many people play online, so there is also a small number of players who enjoy harassing other people. To avoid these kinds of players, there are people who don't play online games at all.

Kojima: That's right. It's unpleasant to meet mean players online, but on the other hand, there are times it feels too troublesome to communicate with players with good intentions, too.

Iwata: Even if the player has good intentions, it can still feel overbearing. Every player has a different feeling towards how they want to interact with others.

Kojima: But even if you play alone to avoid the trouble, it can still feel very lonely. (laughs)

Iwata: It's a pain to communicate with others, but it's lonely to play alone...I guess people can't decide one or the other. (laughs)

Like seemingly a lot of their game design philosophies, Nintendo doesn't approach things with the expectation of just doing them the same way everyone else does. It's not really about just throwing all possible options at the player. Putting voice chat into something like Animal Crossing isn't a big deal, because the nature of the game is already relaxed as-is. In that game it's also not the "stranger danger" concern, communication and sharing are at the heart of the experience. Splatoon, though, is unlike anything they've really made before. It's a shooter, primarily a competitive multiplayer experience, and on top of that a competitive team-based multiplayer experience. Again, the first time they've really had something quite like this within their own development houses on this scale.

A large part of Splatoon's focus in the first place was in finding a way to make a multiplayer shooter that they could use to appeal to the crowd that normally wouldn't be interested in the genre. It's how the whole turf war idea came to be in the first place, since it takes the primary objective away from directly engaging opponents and more about painting territory, allowing players who aren't well versed in PvP to still contribute to team success, at least in theory. But, with that being said, matches are fast, can get very tight, and does indeed require full team cooperation and execution to really get things right (people in the Test-fire demo certainly saw the impact that losing one player has on a match). This means that things can get heated, not just from the opposition, but from your own teammates, who may criticize those on their own side if they don't believe someone is playing "properly" or not pulling their weight. A lot of the toxicity from MOBAs stems from this same issue, as again, one teammate missing out can have disastrous results for the whole team. This is the interaction that they're afraid of. For someone to pick up Splatoon, child or adult alike, start to play the game, and be immediately told by the people who are supposed to be on their side that they are no good and don't know what they're doing. That's discouraging, even moreso than if you were to hear it from an opponent, and it seems Nintendo is imagining that to be the real biggest threat to the player base. Limiting chat to friends-only is a way to work around that...except, at least until the custom rooms are released in August, there's no guarantee which of your friends will end up on your side, or the enemy's, so application of voice would be totally inconsistent anyway. For the time being at least, it seems that they'd rather neuter part of the game's highest-level play in order to ensure that on the broad-level, people's experience playing the game isn't negatively colored by other players.

Please note that I'm not saying that I personally agree with that decision. I'd love to have system-wide party chat, but they just never built the system to do that. I'd love the option for chat within the game, too, but I'm willing to look at their perspective on it and at least understand some of the reasoning. All of the talk about how much of an impact voice chat would or wouldn't have on the strategic impact on a game is nice and all, but I believe it's a moot point in the face of the overall feeling Nintendo wants people to have while playing. Disagree with the decision if you want, but it sure seems like people are getting awfully bent out of shape over something that, ultimately, shouldn't be all that surprising.
 
And we've played online like three times together. And they've since both sold the game, probably no longer than a month or two since they bought it.

And the reason?

If you guessed 'they don't like to keep their phone tied up for the next hour just to play games with one another, and the alternative might as well be playing with randoms, which is one hundred percent less entertaining and engaging than playing with good friends in general', well... bingo
This sounds like my experience. Playing MK8 with my best friend convinced me to buy a Wii U to play with him. How many times have we played together? Once.
 
...For what it's worth - SNIP

Well if we're going to ascribe intent from quotes it might as well be directly from the developers. Here they are at E3 2014 responding to a question about voice chat (at 4:11): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cHwzSm6q3A&feature=youtu.be&t=4m11s

So its definitely an intentional design choice, but not what you were saying. (edit: Oh wait I just remembered one of them said they didn't like being told they suck in shooters online, lol.) If we're to take their words at face value they designed the online portion to be played with only the game to inform you of the situation. "Introduction of some sort of communication" is also stated but I believe they were referring to the commands on the dpad.

They've certainly done this and I think it's an impressive design but I don't think it should be the only way to play. In a team game friends want to talk about the game and just in general. It's human nature. Denying something so basic as a design decision is not justified in this instance. People, the potential players, have certainly made that clear. Some people won't buy it now, some might shelve it quicker, and some will circumvent the design by talking through other devices.

And to those who say "but I like it this way 'cause I don't want to hear anyone" it could have been designed so you get that experience and the chatters get theirs as well. It's not either or.
 
Well if we're going to ascribe intent from quotes it might as well be directly from the developers. Here they are at E3 2014 responding to a question about voice chat (at 4:11): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cHwzSm6q3A&feature=youtu.be&t=4m11s

So its definitely an intentional design choice, but not what you were saying. If we're to take their words at face value they designed the online portion to be played with only the game to inform you of the situation. "Introduction of some sort of communication" is also stated but I believe they were referring to the commands on the dpad.

They've certainly done this and I think it's an impressive design but I don't think it should be the only way to play. In a team game friends want to talk about the game and just in general. It's human nature. Denying something so basic as a design decision is not justified in this instance. People, the potential players, have certainly made that clear. Some people won't buy it now, some might shelve it quicker, and some will circumvent the design by talking through other devices.

And to those who say "but I like it this way 'cause I don't want to hear anyone" it could have been designed so you get that experience and the chatters get theirs as well. It's not either or.


Its very clear he didnt want the game being played that way.

Adding vc would do very litte for the actual turf battle gameplay strategy. You can instantly see everything, and it updates in real time.

It would be nice for shootin the shit with freinds while playing...

However the main thing it would be used for is hunter/killer squads who would do nothing but kill the shit out of people playing the actual game. Which is precisely the exact thing people complaining bring up they want to do every post. They want to tell people where someone is to kill them.

To someone who is old enough to deal with it, its an ineffective strategy that is incredibly easy to overcome.

For someone not as competitive minded, it is indistinguishable from bullying.


Honestly, im surprised there is no direct combat mode, because the combat in splatoon is extremely enjoyable, and having such a mode has an extremely high liklihood of keeping those people engaged and out of modes like turf wars.... And they can add in the mic function without worrying about compromising that design philosophy that turf wars was built on.
 
If I can assign various options for calling for support or directing people to the D-Pad.. that's good.

I really only speak English, so playing the game with international players makes voice chat kind of useless for 3 minute burst random games.

Now, in match games (being released later this year), I do want to be able to call up my squad.

If that means that I will need to hunt down an Amiibo of that adorable Sea Urchin Kid..

Well, I'll be standing outside Target in the cold. You're welcome to join me. I'll be the one holding a box from Dunkin Donuts and a Starbucks coffee.
 
The video interview pretty much negates this #1 attack point of 'lol nintendo dont know!'

Several of the main designers talked about there avid online gaming experiences, including the well knowns 'nintendo just dont know about.'

They talked about the pros and what they liked about voice chat, and the negatives. Its pretty much exactly what you would expect to hear.

They decided they didnt want the game played like that. At least not at launch.

However you may disagree with that, the 'nintendo dont know' narrative is bullshit hyperbole.
What avid online gaming experience? Facebook?
Communication is crucial in team-based competitive shooters. Deciding they don't want voice chat, not even optional, is a bad design decision from gameplay perspective and hurts the game.
 
M°°nblade;163625092 said:
What avid online gaming experience? Facebook?
Communication is crucial in team-based competitive shooters. Deciding they don't want voice chat, not even optional, is a bad design decision from gameplay perspective and hurts the game.

At the bolded, yes it is. This game is not that thing though, and the test fire was perfectly fine without it.

As I've said before I'm of the stance that I hope they add in voice chat at a later date or in a sequel, but I will not miss it one little bit if they don't.
 
who gives a shit how terrible AndreTheGiant is w/ voice because he cannot communicate in the most basic way in a team game? As if that changes how indisputable it is that voice chat always makes teams of any skill play better
 
M°°nblade;163625092 said:
What avid online gaming experience? Facebook?

Does it actually strengthen your position to imply Nintendo designers have never played a traditional online game, and somehow just lucked into making one that seems to have early buzz as being a lot of fun and a breath of fresh air?
 
At the bolded, yes it is. This game is not that thing though, and the test fire was perfectly fine without it.

Why do people keep saying it is NOT a competitive team game? I played it, it is. Nintendo surely thinks so too:

From their Splatoon website ->

"Pick a side and battle it out in these special Turf War events. Find out about the latest Splatfests in Inkopolis Plaza, and be sure to pledge allegiance to your favorite side in the week leading up! Then help your side win by competing in Turf War battles!"

What do you think it is? You have a goal, you have a team. You are competitive to win the round against the other side who is also a team. That's a competitive team game. Just because it has color and killing is not the goal does not make it otherwise.
 
who gives a shit how terrible AndreTheGiant is w/ voice because he cannot communicate in the most basic way in a team game? As if that changes how indisputable it is that voice chat always makes teams of any skill play better

I was joking with that quote. He was talking about how poor he played on the LiveStream 3 days ago, but does much better when not streaming because he can focus on the match and not trying to entertain the stream with commentary.

I'm sure with VC, he woulda done much better with his team and the other team woulda done better aswell.

What do you think it is? You have a goal, you have a team. You are competitive to win the round against the other side who is also a team. That's a competitive team game. Just because it has color and killing is not the goal does not make it otherwise.

This is actually so true. Anyone who says it is not a Competitive Team Game does not know what the term means.


I was going to make a comment about how it would be unfair to a team if they had no-one who could VC on their side VS 2-3 people with VC on the other side, but then realised that the Random Teams every match makes that point invalid since in the next match, it could be fairer.
 
I was joking with that quote. He was talking about how poor he played on the LiveStream 3 days ago, but does much better when not streaming because he can focus on the match and not trying to entertain the stream with commentary.


I'm sure with VC, he woulda done much better with his team and the other team woulda done better aswell.

my apologies. It's a pet peeve of mind when people try to hold up some figurehead's opinion as proof that something is/is not good, that's how I interpreted it. My bad :P
 
Does it actually strengthen your position to imply Nintendo designers have never played a traditional online game, and somehow just lucked into making one that seems to have early buzz as being a lot of fun and a breath of fresh air?
This is the same argument that has already been addressed before in this thread.
Just because a designer makes a fresh and fun sounding game, doesn't mean his design is perfect, without further need of improvements or proof of avid experience.
 
M°°nblade;163634161 said:
This is the same argument that has already been addressed before in this thread.
Just because a designer makes a fresh and fun sounding game, doesn't mean his design is perfect, without further need of improvements or proof of avid experience.

So the opposite of "not perfect" is "has only ever played Facebook games" with the implicit contemptuous sneer left unspoken?
Come on now.
 
I've decided I'll just play this game at the local barcade (Battle & Brew for you ATL folks) when it releases and they get it. That way, the voice chat won't be a big deal. I'm assuming there is local multiplayer... and that won't require voice chat. If only for principle, Nintendo can't keep doing this and people overlooking it. We don't overlook the missteps of EA, or Ubisoft... Nintendo shouldn't be excluded.
 
So the opposite of "not perfect" is "has only ever played Facebook games" with the implicit contemptuous sneer left unspoken?
If you had read the post I replied to, you would have understood that I was fighting hyperbole with hyperbole.
For experienced players, voice chat is an integral part of team-based competitive online games as much as steering wheel support is for sim racing games. It's a feature that's going to be missed by many players and may be a deal breaker to give this game the attention it otherwise would have deserved because the experience feels handicapped. An online experience is much more than just having a good core gameplay.

Personally, I usually give up on games with deaf-mute online communities pretty quickly.
 
That's what they said about Mario Kart 8. And I still bought it because, whatever, it's Mario Kart, I already know I'll love it. I still do. Play it regularly with the fam.

And I actually got two of my buddies to buy the system and game too! (well one of them bought the system for 3D World, but whatever)

And we've played online like three times together. And they've since both sold the game, probably no longer than a month or two since they bought it.

And the reason?

If you guessed 'they don't like to keep their phone tied up for the next hour just to play games with one another, and the alternative might as well be playing with randoms, which is one hundred percent less entertaining and engaging than playing with good friends in general', well... bingo

for what it's worth I'll probably get them to buy Splatoon too and if anything they'll probably keep the game despite lack of voice chat. Why? because we love playing as a team, together, engaging in meaningful interactions in the game so that we perform better together than we ever would alone. For example, I fucking hated Destiny and my post history will corroborate this. And yet, I've got a level thirty Warlock, and a Titan in the late teens, and I know they'd both be 32 if I still owned a PS4. Because playing together and triumphing as a team of friends makes even shit games pretty fun to play, sometimes. And Splatoon is far from a shit game as far as I can tell. so we'll use Skype, or TS on our respective laptops and tablets, and we'll do that shit up anyways. (in august lols)

exact same scenario with my friends. this is why it's frustrating to be a nintendo fan. so many more people would be interested in these games with simple basic online features I feel.
 
exact same scenario with my friends. this is why it's frustrating to be a nintendo fan. so many more people would be interested in these games with simple basic online features I feel.

Not that I'm agreeing with omitting the option of voice chat (as I've said a few times, the lack of a party system e.g. as you'd fin d in CoD, bothers me infinitely more). But what's the big deal about "keeping the phone tied up" while playing? Every smartphone has skype capability, and "real" calls can interrupt skype calls, at least on my phone. And emails/messages coming in on the phone will still throw up notifications while you're on skype. I don't see why this is such a problem. (Again, not saying "stfu, skype" is a valid response to all complaints; just that it seems strange that having the capability but choosing not to do it because it "ties up the phone" doesn't make sense.)

I mean unless people are talking about using shared landlines to voice chat... in that case, fine I guess, but for people with smartphones, this excuse doesn't seem to make sense.
 
Not that I'm agreeing with omitting the option of voice chat (as I've said a few times, the lack of a party system e.g. as you'd fin d in CoD, bothers me infinitely more). But what's the big deal about "keeping the phone tied up" while playing? Every smartphone has skype capability, and "real" calls can interrupt skype calls, at least on my phone. And emails/messages coming in on the phone will still throw up notifications while you're on skype. I don't see why this is such a problem. (Again, not saying "stfu, skype" is a valid response to all complaints; just that it seems strange that having the capability but choosing not to do it because it "ties up the phone" doesn't make sense.)
I've got a simple one: I generally game and use the phone with headphones on. So if I have to listen to my friends through a headset attached to a phone, I can't hear the game anymore. Having party chat audio integrated alongside a game is fantastic (and not what happens when running Skype). Besides that, it's a pain in the ass to have to balance two devices when I'm trying to play a game. It's a crappy setup and it just makes the prospect of going online that much less fun and easy.
 
who gives a shit how terrible AndreTheGiant is w/ voice because he cannot communicate in the most basic way in a team game? As if that changes how indisputable it is that voice chat always makes teams of any skill play better

Andre was talking about Twitch streaming dude. It had nothing to do with Voice chat.

Edit: Ah, I see you that you realized that afterward
 
Parent Trap: Splatoon Is The Perfect Family Firepower-Fest

Another negative for some is the lack of voice chat, but as a parent I really won't be missing this feature. Also not having voice means that players have to communicate in non-verbal ways with each other — a skill I'm keen for my children to develop.

See a family play the game for even a few minutes and these concerns melt away to leave an engaging experience that can be played, watched and understood by all ages. It's the kind of game that involves everyone in the room - certainly not something you can say about Call of Duty, hence its problematic relegation to bedrooms.

I'm looking forward to playing more Splatoon, but (and here's the real mark of success in my book) I'm also looking forward to introducing Splatoon to friends and family. Who will you play it with?


Also has a video of a child playing the game so you can see how children behave when playing the game to see if Nintendo has made a game which children can pick up instantly.
 
Parent Trap: Splatoon Is The Perfect Family Firepower-Fest




Also has a video of a child playing the game so you can see how children behave when playing the game to see if Nintendo has made a game which children can pick up instantly.

This still sounds like an excuse

Clearly it would be easy to just default Voice chat to off and have people opt in, have settings for "Friends only", built in party chat.... etc..

I dont get it. It does come off as them just not caring about solving these problems
 
Parent Trap: Splatoon Is The Perfect Family Firepower-Fest




Also has a video of a child playing the game so you can see how children behave when playing the game to see if Nintendo has made a game which children can pick up instantly.

I want you to realize that a child's ability to play Splatoon has no bearing on me. I do not care if a kid can play it, and I actively dislike that Nintendo has pursued an overly safe approach at the cost of basic features.
 
I want you to realize that a child's ability to play Splatoon has no bearing on me. I do not care if a kid can play it, and I actively dislike that Nintendo has pursued an overly safe approach at the cost of basic features.

Also, the little girl said "Sucks!" and "Rollers Stink!", clearly showing that Voice Chat won't affect the youths of today as they already say them words!

So...no reason for not having Voice Chat since youths are corrupted already!
 
Parent Trap: Splatoon Is The Perfect Family Firepower-Fest




Also has a video of a child playing the game so you can see how children behave when playing the game to see if Nintendo has made a game which children can pick up instantly.

The bolded in your quote is reaching so far it's hilarious. Non-verbal communication skills from a video game? Yeah... That's miles better than, you know, having them play with their friends and develop their honest to goodness real communication skills. I'm sure that parents won't think that's anti-social at all, after all those non-verbal communication skills of pinging and the like are so much more valuable than talking with friends and building relationships.
 
I want you to realize that a child's ability to play Splatoon has no bearing on me. I do not care if a kid can play it, and I actively dislike that Nintendo has pursued an overly safe approach at the cost of basic features.

Nintendo can either put up with the gnashing of teeth from a vocal minority of gamers, or it can deal with complaints from parents about their children being exposed the 4chan griefers obsessed with Splatoon porn. Hopefully they add party chat later, but I can see why they decided to release the game the way they did, as inconvenient as it is.
 
The bolded in your quote is reaching so far it's hilarious. Non-verbal communication skills from a video game? Yeah... That's miles better than, you know, having them play with their friends and develop their honest to goodness real communication skills. I'm sure that parents won't think that's anti-social at all, after all those non-verbal communication skills of pinging and the like are so much more valuable than talking with friends and building relationships.

Hey, it's the way he is raising his kids. Don't judge lol.
 
I'm not so sure that PvZ:GW is a good example of a family friendly shooter, given how the whole game was designed to get people to spend money on microtransactions, many of which are consumable.

Anyway, everyone's just going in circles now. The pro-voice chat group isn't going to convince the anti-voice chat group and vice versa. I don't see Nintendo backpedaling on this issue either.

You must have never played PvZ if you think that. There was a thread made by someone else who didn't understand the game and tried to crap all over it without understanding it and everyone in the thread that's actually played it chimed in.

The bottom line is the microtransactions in that game are handled better than any other game with MT in existance. I've spent hundreds of hours in game and unlocked all the content in the entire game within my first 10 hours, but the next few hundred flew by with how much fun I was having. If you're interested in how the game actually works check this out - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=159820639
 
Top Bottom