Patrick S.
Banned
I always get the CoDs used on console, or from a key site for PC. CoD Ghosts for the PS4 is still €99 when it's not on sale...
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[IGNxGamer] Call of Duty Vanguard - PS5 & PC Performance Review
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
- Start date
- Analysis Review
I always get the CoDs used on console, or from a key site for PC. CoD Ghosts for the PS4 is still €99 when it's not on sale...
Topher
Identifies as young
And unfortunately it works both ways. There are some who are hellbent on trashing
NXGamer
. The Far Cry 6 DF thread was a shitshow with folks raking NXG over the coals for having a pixel count different than DF and VGT while DF themselves had a pixel count for Xbox Series S that was far different than either NXG or VGT, but those same exact people blatantly ignored it despite it being repeatedly pointed out. For whatever reason, both DF and NXG are seen as biased in this silly console war. It is insane.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I bought this year the Infinite Warfare for 20 bucks, so I know, what I am talking about : )
Exactly.They know a lot more than myself, i understand they can make mistakes like everyone else, but when they make a mistake they're dragged over the coals. You can say you don't agree with something and still don't act like an asshole. I don't agree with NXgamer comparing a console to a 3090, acknowledge the difference in rendering resolution and then say they look similar, but i don't need to be a dick about it. The implication by some forum members here towards DF is way worse than bias many times, many times they're tagged as MS shills etc.And unfortunately it works both ways. There are some who are hellbent on trashing
Patrick S.
Banned
You are in Poland, aren't you? If I remember, I'll take pictures from the CoD aisle next time I'm at MediaMarkt
Tqaulity
Member
No because that wasn't the point of what I was saying nor did NXGamer's video ever suggest that. People of course just misinterpreted as such.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
I do like how for deaths standing he showed upscaling in a bad light when ps5 was native. But with ps5 upscaling it's now shown in a better light
Midn1ght
Member
Call of Duty: PS5 reconstructed 4K looks amazing and can't tell the difference with Native 4K with 3090. DLS-What ? PS5 is a beast.
Death Stranding: Let's ignore DLSS on PC again. PS5 new version on par with 3070 on old version at similar resolution. PS5 is a beast.
Come on now...
I'm on board when people are calling out DF for comparing consoles to low-mid tier first gen RTX cards without further investigation but let's not pretend NXGamer doesn't have a tendency to do half baked PC comparison to shine a brighter light on these consoles. Alex prefer PC and it shows in his reviews. NXGamer prefers consoles and it shows in his reviews. Expecting people to not call them out for it is a waste of time and people discussing their work is good business for both of them anyway.
adamosmaki
Member
Almost as fun as people getting triggered when you indicate them that a Ps5 offers a very similar experiance to a mid range GPU from 2019
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I wonder how a 2060 handles this game at 4k with DLSS 2.0 base resolution of 1080p vs a ps5. Did he do that comparison?
A Most Virtuous Cat
Banned
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Czech Republic, so in next country. But retail copies are in like a year heavily discounted at least few times. This was price for digital Xbox version from store : )You are in Poland, aren't you? If I remember, I'll take pictures from the CoD aisle next time I'm at MediaMarkt
Patrick S.
Banned
German Steam prices for Infinite Warfare right now:
Way too expensive for a five year old game, and over here, CoD is always like that :/
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Sure those prices bounced back, it was some sale : )German Steam prices for Infinite Warfare right now:
Way too expensive for a five year old game, and over here, CoD is always like that :/
NXGamer
Member
This is not upscaling, this is a reconstruction method such as DLSS or Checkerboarding. The camera view is jittered each frame to resolve a full 3840x2160 across 2 frames. It may also have a dynamic element but the edge shots or fast cuts show the lower base levels. But even in fast action you cannot spot it, the solution is excellent merged with the heavy PP image anyway and TAA. Next to native 4K on PC the only signs are the shimmer of specular at times not present on PC and more dithered shading on Light sources, SSR etc.
This does not come free and has a cost, I do not know what the cost is here for the latest game here but the results and performance prove the team have nailed it. Clever pixels, not simply more pixels, as I have consistently said for years.
NXGamer
Member
Are you serious?
This has NOTHING to do with any "side" winning, this call comes from you the viewer. I just tested the best the PC has (not even my GPU, as noted in the video this was Destin's Capture). We used 4k at max settings to show the difference to best, the video I show all this.
I also state it is pushing a huge amount more pixels, which means all resolution related buffers go with that so Alpha, Particles, SSR, Shadows etc etc.
This is a tech test, take the info, use it. If it makes you feel better (and I note in the Video) using DLSS or even the games Dynamic scaling then the PC would be much faster.....due to less pixels more more intelligent ones.
Elog
Member
To me it seems more and more as if the math side of rendering - in particular for ray tracing - is giving way more bang for the buck than adding mm2 of silicon when you look at demos of new techniques. Interesting times ahead.
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
What does this mean?
Arioco
Member
???
Most DF videos you can see on GAF were posted by me. I'm NOT asking people to shit on anyone.
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I spent years telling people this isn't upscaling you're wasting your time.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
If resolution doesn’t matter why not set the PC to maximum settings but use DLSS 2.0 as the reconstruction technique and set the internal resolution to the same as the ps5 and then compare the performance and how each technique looks against the other. Maybe their are advantages and disadvantage to both solutions, maybe DLSS wipes the floor with the ps5 implementation and runs at 200 fps?
this would be good to know imo.
this would be good to know imo.
Elog
Member
You need to rethink what the video is about. Everyone and their mother knows that the 3090 wipes the floor with a PS5 (and XSX for that matter) in terms of horse power. Why should we spend time showing what we already know?
The video is about how powerful the mathematical side of rendering has become - where good math can make up for the delta between in this case a PS5 and the 3090 (a close to insane difference in terms of transistors). The same math can of course be applied to a 3090 with spectacular results. However, the moment you hit 60FPS@4K you should really ask yourself what you are trying to achieve? You are better off buying a new TV/ monitor once you are there compared to putting more money into your GPU.
One last point: The fixed hardware environments (i.e. consoles) will have a distinct advantage over PC when it comes to the math side since you can optimize much further when you have one set of graphical options, one resolution, one target FPS and one set of hardware to go for.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
the video is literally called PlayStation 5 vs pc PERFORMANCE review. Id like to know how the pc performs on the same playing field as the ps5. What happens if I had a 240hz monitor, or a 120hz TV. how do these boxes perform in the campaign targeting 120 fps when hooked up to my tv?
Nvidia DLSS is pretty much the best reconstruction technique available in the consumer market,I bet the 3090 could output this game at 8k with similar performance to a ps5 with ps5 settings and the same internal resolution.
the pc is an agile platform, you can tweak so much. We can’t see the ps5 rendering at native 4k to see how it performs, which I imagine would be pretty terribly compared to the pc so I think it would be good to run the pc at the ps5 settings to see the delta. Then you can at least have a genuine idea of where the money of a 1200 pound gpu shows it’s performance differences.
just my opinion. It’s like literally a pointless video without these kinds of data points And makes me question why you would make it. If the video was titled “the benefits of reconstruction techniques in modern console games“ then it’s a completely different thing.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
To make the PS5 look better vs the 3090. And it worked based on some posts here.
MadchesterManc
Member
Few things seem to trigger folk on GAF more than DLSS not being enabled
Self_Destructive
Member
If you're doing a performance comparison... and one utilizes reconstruction tech... why would you NOT test the performance improvements.. as well as comparing the reconstruction techniques available on the other themselves?
What a half assed comparison...
and it's specifically half assed because it isn't even NXGamer's own footage. I can't just gather footage from various people around the net, ask them what they're settings were, and expect people to believe what I'm reporting to them is accurate.. who knows at that point. It raises all sorts of questions. But disregarding that.. The fact that either Destin provided him with footage he asked for, which specifically neglected DLSS and FSR, or he simply "forgot" to ask Destin to provide footage of them is half assed either way.
I don't mean to shit on the guy or anything.. but the OBVIOUS intent of this comparison, is to show how great PS5 is. Nothing more.
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Midn1ght
Member
From your video:
Like I said above, I'm on board when showing that fix hardware can deliver more with less and the incredible value they offer.
The issue is NOT that you show how good these consoles are or how good reconstruction has become, it's that you seem to always conveniently focus on these advantages while often ignoring what is truly possible on PC. You take a 1080p to 4K mode and a native 4K mode and use that to compare apples with apples.
Call of Duty and Death Stranding both have DLSS, which can also deliver great 4K image with insane performances. How come you barely talk about it?
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
this I completely agree with. There is no way that they do not know what they are showing when they make these statements and the decision to show a pc game running in the 40s on a cutscene while it’s pushing 4x the pixels, which a regular ign viewer probably doesn’t get.
there was even downplaying VRR when it was literally dropping to 83 fps. Why would you downplay VRR? it’s so weird. You should be saying if the ps5 had VRR it would make these drops feel negligible. Such a strange strange video. Instead, if I heard correctly he was saying VRR isn’t important and it doesn’t really matter etc. like wtf?
is this actually a tech video lmao.
Venom Snake
Member
The PS5 renders at 1080p and uses reconstruction to reach 4k. The RTX 3090 can achieve at least the same or higher framerate in native 4k. The performance delta is obvious enough. We can show it in several other ways and get the same results. So why waste time? In order to change the context, because someone's ego has not been taken into account? Grow the fuck up.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
what does the pc run the game at, performance wise as in frames per second when running at the same setting as the ps5?
it’s not some childish request to ask of a tech video on one of the most popular web sites on the internet. The video is embarrassing That it doesn’t highlight the real strengths of the gpu that is used in the pc? How can you not use DLSS and push it to 8k or see how many frames you can get at lower internal res?
it’s not bad to highlight these and hope it’s taken on board and improved on in future videos.
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Venom Snake
Member
Because it's a 14-minute video dedicated to a few different platforms, briefly describing what we are dealing with, not a detailed benchmark for pc owners. Good enough for me, so there is a point in such videos too. If you don't like it, look for better ones.
Here, have this one, a RTX 3090 benchmark:
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NXGamer
Member
All that you have quoted is true, but you also missed the other bits on the PC side when I said.
"Due to the higher resolution all framebuffer related effects are much higher, Screen space reflections have far less dithering, edges of ears, depth of field, Volumetrics, alpha effects are all much higher and sharper. As is the tessellation levels and POM being further out. The PC is pushing far more pixels here but side by side it can be hard to notice".
This is not the gotcha you think it is, I have stated the PC is pushing more, and in this games, in these tests, they are very close. I can only test a game at a time and this only relates to this title and is evidenced and displayed on screen. No matter what I test someone always will dislike the outcome, that is not my concern, if my next test shows a huge gap to PC, I will show it and say it, then the circle repeats.
In the end I had a couple of days (in-between my full time job) to cover 4 versions with Destin's help on the PC side. I had to cover all this in a 14-15 minute video. Many things i left out due to focus on content and time etc. This is not a deep dive but a multi-platform comparison that gives as much info for all as possible, including the PC resolution options such as DSR, DLSS and FSR.
Maybe, just maybe, I present the facts and data as they are and the viewer may not like them, but that is not my concern or aim only the results as they are presented.
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Midn1ght
Member
Yes, and you conclude all of this with: "At standard viewing distance, none of this would be notice. What can be notice here even on a 3090 is the heavy drops in real time cinematic"
Come on, you have too much experience to not know you're lighting a fire with quotes like these.
I'm not saying you're wrong with facts, I'm disputing the methodology you use to compare both platform and the often misrepresentation of some PC features.
I didn't know that this wasn't your full time job so fair enough. IGN please, pay the man and send him some heavy hardware for Christ's sake.
Elog
Member
I'm not sure what the misrepresentation is that some of you claim. Last generation there was a clear image quality differences between the console versions and high-end PC versions. The point of this video is that the current generation consoles can give an - for all practical purposes - indistinguishable image quality to a high-end PC at 60 FPS in CoD Vanguard. The high-end PC has of course higher image quality using 400% zoom etc but in gameplay it is so minor that it is borderline theoretical. The PC can of course also push higher FPS.
However, it is pretty newsworthy that the console - in this case the PS5 - can push basically the same 4K image quality at standard view distance at 60 FPS as a high-end PC. Given the price delta that is pretty darn good.
However, it is pretty newsworthy that the console - in this case the PS5 - can push basically the same 4K image quality at standard view distance at 60 FPS as a high-end PC. Given the price delta that is pretty darn good.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Ah, so it is running at 210 fps with ultra settings at 1080p. Would be cool if they ran DLSS to 4k to see the performance there.
seems about right for a 3090 to offer 3.5 x the performance of the ps5
I imagine it would be more if the pc was running at ps5 settings as I doubt the ps5 is equal to ultra on pc.
hopefully Alex at digital foundry does a proper comparison and states what settings the consoles are using compared to pc and what the performance is like.
yamaci17
Member
3090 would push %50-10 more frames depending on whether quality or performance mode is used, which would further brutalize the comparison/the difference, especially when you consider dlss manages to provide near native like image quality even with dlss performance mode. of course they won't dare to do such a comparison
some people here act as if 3080 3090 users should always push native 4k, although they themselves admit that reconstruction techniques produce believable native like image quality which you would not notice until you pixel peep. dlss quality at 4k is practically a free performance boost that can actually sometimes provide better visuals than native image due to horrible TAA implementation and will provide a solid performance boost on top of that
yes these gpus really cost a lot, but they also include a revolutionary reconstruction tech, why not use it when its available?
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yamaci17
Member
this is how a 3080 runs this game with dlss balanaced at 4k (1252p input res). image quality is similar or equal to the cb 4k ps5 and native 4k 3090 footage nx gamer showed. performance is generally way above 90+ fps and sometimes hovers around 120 fps or so
and the venerable rtx 2070 super...
4k+ultra+dlss performance =60-90 fps (mostly 70-80 from what i've seen) (settings in the start of the video)
i don't even want delve into the console settings territory,. the point is, dlss allows these cards to punch above their weight while retaining similar image quality, whether you like it or not. I don't even like Nvidia, they're a scummy company, but you can't deny that rtx gpus have a strong tool with DLSS in such games. its just there, people use it, as you can see from the above videos, and it provides huge framerate improvements for minimal image quality loss, since as i've said again, its a far more advanced tech than any checkerboarding method
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Arioco
Member
Maybe because what the video is trying to show us is precisely how this new reconstruction technique compares against NATIVE rez? God, we already know DLSS is great and the best reconstruction technique out there, do you really need yet another video to prove that? But something like what's being used in COD: Vanguard is new on consoles, and I do think it's very interesting to see how it compares to native 4K, the same way we've seen a million videos comparing DLSS to native rez. So please, calm down, this is not about how good DLSS is, we already know it's the best to reconstruct images, nor is it about how powerful a RTX 3090 really is, we already know it's the most powerful GPU on the market. The funny thing about some people is that they feel threatened by any comparison, even if they clearly win by a landslide. Console warriors fighting over 0.1 medium frame rate and 100p and PC warrior complaining because the PC GPU only runs at 4 times the resolution of a PS5, which apparently is really unfair. I love you, GAF.
Anyways, do you guys know anything at all about this new reconstruction technique? It's hard to believe it's so good it can reconstruct a 1080p image to make it look like native 4K. I mean, consoles don't have specific hardware to reconstruct the image (apart from the ID buffer for checkerboard, which PS5 is not even confirmed to have, though it might have it to support PS4 Pro games via backwards conpability), and the techniques we know (like CB or Temporal Injection) can provide pretty good results but usually use roughly half the rez of the final image. In this case it's just 1/4, which I find quite surprising. How are they doing it? I'm very curious. PS4 native rez is so low that I'd say it's something unheard of on the system (544p?WTF?! That's the same as Alan Wake, the lowest rez game on 360, and lower than Oblivion. 765p on Pro? LOL), and yet the final results look pretty good. Black magic? Does it really compare to native 4K? I would like to see more footage side by side.
Last gen was the gen of the AA solutions (previously we only had SSAA, MSAA, crappy FXAA - which is what we ended up getting on consoles- and very rarely things like MLAA). Maybe this new gen is the gen of the reconstruction and upscaling techniques, who knows...
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Like I said, the video should have been titles something completely differently. Why would you title the video Playstation vs PC performance review then only provide selective evidence?
I appreciate that NX Gamer has a full time Job and this was done in a few days with time constraints, but I think the time could have been used more effectively to highlight what the PC truly offers in terms of available tech.
The video could have been about reconstruction tech and shouted about how a 3060 or 2070 can get you the same performance and image quality as the PS5 at 90 FPS etc. Maybe a 2060 can hit the same as a PS5 with DLSS? I love consoles, but you gotta be straight with people with these kinds of comparisons in my opinion.
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Arioco
Member
OK, that sounds pretty interesting too. I'd love to see a video comparing this reconstruction tech to DLSS and then showing how both of them compare to native rez. Yes, I'll definitely buy that.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Because should be fake 4k vs fake 4k.
AnotherOne
Member
Why not just do a ps5 analysis and go in depth with it.. including a comparison to a 3090 seems rather pointless especially since some users on here get the wrong idea and now think ps5 can go toe to toe with a 3090.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Definitely sounds disingenuous to be honest. But then again, that's the best way to get clicks and views. And this isn't the first time for him either, and far from the last.
That's why it's great that we have other channels that go in depth, and will do a more diligent analysis, minus these kinda things. Imagine someone trying to secretly imply ps5 performance is on par with a 3090? Now imagine people actually believing that... Wait you don't have to. This video, it's comments, and everything subtly implies it.
Not a good look.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Comparing is fine for IQ, but performance shouldn't be compared if you can't get at least close to same settings/resolution. That's a pointless comparison.
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NXGamer
Member
That is not on me, anyone thinking or perpetrating that is either wilfully ignorant or has an agenda.