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[Sàmban]

How do I have no idea what I'm talking about? I'm just against double standards when it comes to race. Black people get away with saying things, that if a white person said it, it would be considered racist.

Examples:

It's okay for a black person to say "Black Power", but a white person saying "White Power" is racist.

Issa Rae said at the Emmys "I'm rooting for everybody black". If a white person said "I'm rooting for everybody white", that would be considered racist.

Before you even say I'm white, I'm actually fully Hispanic.

I believe in equality, but I don't think there will be healing until double standards stop. Have equality across the board.

I think as a nation we've progressed a great deal, but for racism to die down it takes time. Segregation ended 64 years ago, that's not that long ago. Of course there's still deep rooted racism in America still. But that takes time to be rooted out. Several generations.

I think you misinterpreted my my original post. As a minority I feel for African Americans, but I think for healing to occur we have gotta stop with the double standards, and paying wrong for wrong, or else the cycle will just continue.

It’s not a double standard because white people in America were not enslaved in America for 200 years and white people were not called niggers throughout this period.

“White power/I’m rooting for white people” isn’t racist technically, but it holds a lot of racist connotations. White people, overall, hold most of the power and have done so for centuries; they have generally used this power in very destructive ways towards minorities (Indians, Chinese, Africans).

Is it fair? No, not really. But neither are the things that black people have endured and continue to endure as a result (e.g., Tuskegee, destruction of black wallstreet, housing discrimination, police brutality, etc).

In an equal world with a level playing-field, this would be a double standard. But it isn’t. There is no double standard. There’s like a 200-years-of-slavery-and-its-after-effects difference. You have to be pretty obtuse to pretend otherwise.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

It’s not a double standard because white people in America were not enslaved in America for 200 years and white people were not called niggers throughout this period.

“White power/I’m rooting for white people” isn’t racist technically, but it holds a lot of racist connotations. White people, overall, hold most of the power and have done so for centuries; they have generally used this power in very destructive ways towards minorities (Indians, Chinese, Africans).

Is it fair? No, not really. But neither are the things that black people have endured and continue to endure as a result (e.g., Tuskegee, destruction of black wallstreet, housing discrimination, police brutality, etc).

In an equal world with a level playing-field, this would be a double standard. But it isn’t. There is no double standard. There’s like a 200-years-of-slavery-and-its-after-effects difference. You have to be pretty obtuse to pretend otherwise.

 

[mckmas8808]

This guy seems to care more about personal property than the people that live in Baltimore. He seems more focused on the "rioting" than why people did it. But we are used to this from certain white people. We are used to white people like this telling us that we are worse human beings than them.

Just because he has a suit on doesn't make his thinking that much different from the ones with a white hood on. He basically is saying that black people on have a "worse" culture than white people. And he seems to think that it's inherit in the color of our skin and attitude. He doesn't seem to understand that black and white people live in the same cities, yet for some "reason" we have totally different cultures. Come on man!

 

[Takuan]

Unprofessional, but it's a goddamned IHOP.

Personally, I think it's hilarious. But the company did the right thing.

 

[Airola]

He doesn't seem to understand that black and white people live in the same cities, yet for some "reason" we have totally different cultures. Come on man!

But living in same cities doesn't mean everyone are under the same cultural rules and habits. Black people in certain areas acting the same way isn't because of their skin color but because they happen to be with each other.

This reminds me of one Louis Theroux documentary where he was in one US city and checking out the hoods and checking out the police. There were lots of trouble within the black community and at least for me it came off as them being stubborn as hell in keeping their own set of rules on how to behave especially when dealing with criminal action. Maybe one could say they don't want to talk to the police because of the fear of the police, but to me it certainly seemed like they were more scared of each other and had this strict rule of not snitching on anyone. Blaming cops for that kind of a behaviour is ignoring the root of the problem. The reason for the problems isn't them being black, but the reasons have infiltrated in some black communities. That's not to say it doesn't happen among white people as that is also happening around the world where the same problems exist.

 

[mckmas8808]

But living in same cities doesn't mean everyone are under the same cultural rules and habits. Black people in certain areas acting the same way isn't because of their skin color but because they happen to be with each other.

This reminds me of one Louis Theroux documentary where he was in one US city and checking out the hoods and checking out the police. There were lots of trouble within the black community and at least for me it came off as them being stubborn as hell in keeping their own set of rules on how to behave especially when dealing with criminal action. Maybe one could say they don't want to talk to the police because of the fear of the police, but to me it certainly seemed like they were more scared of each other and had this strict rule of not snitching on anyone. Blaming cops for that kind of a behaviour is ignoring the root of the problem. The reason for the problems isn't them being black, but the reasons have infiltrated in some black communities. That's not to say it doesn't happen among white people as that is also happening around the world where the same problems exist.

The Wire did a great job explaining this type of behavior. Within hoods all across America, the same line of thinking happens. This is the thinking...."If I tell on this criminal that I have nothing to do with, who will protect me? Okay so I help testify or tell the police some information that helps lock up the bad guys, will me and my family be able to live a normal life?"

There are plenty of times when innocent people that live in those bad areas talk to the police and then the criminal doesn't get convicted. And retaliation happens on the back end. That's a very fearful way to live. And it's reasonable to understand why many people don't want to go to the police in certain situations if they can't trust the police in the first place. If the police don't trust the community and the community doesn't trust the police, then a bunch of stalemates happen and nothing gets solved. Crimes just go unsolved. I imagine this happens in white neighborhoods too that have a relatively high crime rate and a low trust in the cops.

But again HBO's The Wire tv show depicts these situations in a perfect way. There are so many black neighborhoods that have high crime where churches, non-profits groups, schools, etc are helping. But if the tax base is low (meaning that the city doesn't have much money to spend for resources), little help from the state's governor, or not getting true corporation from the authorities in charge then how will things get better? If court offices, police departments, other county and city officials are incentivized to lock people up/keep them on probation for long periods of time in order to keep them in the "system"/constantly fining them for the smallest of violations then nothing can get better.

 

[the.acl]

This guy seems to care more about personal property than the people that live in Baltimore. He seems more focused on the "rioting" than why people did it. But we are used to this from certain white people. We are used to white people like this telling us that we are worse human beings than them.

Just because he has a suit on doesn't make his thinking that much different from the ones with a white hood on. He basically is saying that black people on have a "worse" culture than white people. And he seems to think that it's inherit in the color of our skin and attitude. He doesn't seem to understand that black and white people live in the same cities, yet for some "reason" we have totally different cultures. Come on man!

Let's be honest, you're not looting as a form of protest. People take advantage of riots to loot and have some sort of personal gain. White/Black/Latino/Asian, whoever. I judge the individual in that case. If you loot and vandalize you're a piece of shit. What does looting an electronics store have to do with police brutality lol

 

[Thizz]

Not as bad as “honkie” or “cracka”.

Those are the REAL racist slurs. The n-word isn’t even offensive anymore unless you’re a damn LIEBERAL

 

[mckmas8808]

Let's be honest, you're not looting as a form of protest. People take advantage of riots to loot and have some sort of personal gain. White/Black/Latino/Asian, whoever. I judge the individual in that case. If you loot and vandalize you're a piece of shit. What does looting an electronics store have to do with police brutality lol

It has nothing to do with it. Sometimes people get so fed up with the system that they do illegal things. They should be arrested if caught. But lets not act like they are just crazy in the head. The story below is the samething.

Armed men, led by Bundy brothers, take over federal building in rural Oregon​

​

A group of armed anti-government activists remained encamped at a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon on Sunday evening, vowing to occupy the outpost for years to protest the federal government’s treatment of a pair of local ranchers set to report to prison Monday.​

The occupation of a portion of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, about 30 miles southeast of Burns, Ore., began a day earlier, after a small group of men broke off from a much larger march and rally held on Saturday evening​

The armed occupation is being led by Ammon Bundy, an Idaho rancher whose father, Cliven Bundy, led an armed standoff with federal agents in Nevada in 2014 and who has described his supporters as “militia men.”​

​

“Those who want to go take hard stand, get in your trucks and follow me!” Ammon Bundy declared to rally-goers at the conclusion of Saturday’s event, according to several people who were in attendance. Not long afterward, the group had taken over the federal wildlife preserve. Harney County Sheriff David M. Ward said authorities from several law enforcement organizations were monitoring the ongoing incident. “These men came to Harney County claiming to be part of militia groups supporting local ranchers,” Ward said in a statement Sunday. “When in reality these men had alternative motives, to attempt to overthrow the county and federal government in hopes to spark a movement across the United States.”​

​

Organizers of the rally say several hundred attended the procession through Burns, Ore. — a ranching town of less than 3,000 residents — in a show of support for Dwight Hammond, 73, and his son Steven Hammond, 46, who in the conclusion of a decades of clashes with the federal government were sentenced last October to serve five years in prison. Prosecutors accused the Hammonds of committing arson on federal land in 2001 and 2006. The men and their attorneys argued that the fires had been set on their own property — once to prevent the spread of an invasive species of plant and once in attempt to prevent the spread of a wildfire — and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. But prosecutors said the fires were set in attempt to destroy evidence that the Hammonds had been illegally hunting deer on the federal lands. The two men have previously served prison time for the crimes, but earlier this year a federal appeals court concluded that their initial sentences had been too short — arson on federal property carries a mandatory minimum sentence of five years — and ordered the men back to prison.​

​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lding-in-rural-oregon/?utm_term=.1d0ca141588d

 

[the.acl]

It has nothing to do with it. Sometimes people get so fed up with the system that they do illegal things. They should be arrested if caught. But lets not act like they are just crazy in the head. The story below is the samething.

Armed men, led by Bundy brothers, take over federal building in rural Oregon​

​

A group of armed anti-government activists remained encamped at a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon on Sunday evening, vowing to occupy the outpost for years to protest the federal government’s treatment of a pair of local ranchers set to report to prison Monday.​

The occupation of a portion of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, about 30 miles southeast of Burns, Ore., began a day earlier, after a small group of men broke off from a much larger march and rally held on Saturday evening​

The armed occupation is being led by Ammon Bundy, an Idaho rancher whose father, Cliven Bundy, led an armed standoff with federal agents in Nevada in 2014 and who has described his supporters as “militia men.”​

​

“Those who want to go take hard stand, get in your trucks and follow me!” Ammon Bundy declared to rally-goers at the conclusion of Saturday’s event, according to several people who were in attendance. Not long afterward, the group had taken over the federal wildlife preserve. Harney County Sheriff David M. Ward said authorities from several law enforcement organizations were monitoring the ongoing incident. “These men came to Harney County claiming to be part of militia groups supporting local ranchers,” Ward said in a statement Sunday. “When in reality these men had alternative motives, to attempt to overthrow the county and federal government in hopes to spark a movement across the United States.”​

​

Organizers of the rally say several hundred attended the procession through Burns, Ore. — a ranching town of less than 3,000 residents — in a show of support for Dwight Hammond, 73, and his son Steven Hammond, 46, who in the conclusion of a decades of clashes with the federal government were sentenced last October to serve five years in prison. Prosecutors accused the Hammonds of committing arson on federal land in 2001 and 2006. The men and their attorneys argued that the fires had been set on their own property — once to prevent the spread of an invasive species of plant and once in attempt to prevent the spread of a wildfire — and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. But prosecutors said the fires were set in attempt to destroy evidence that the Hammonds had been illegally hunting deer on the federal lands. The two men have previously served prison time for the crimes, but earlier this year a federal appeals court concluded that their initial sentences had been too short — arson on federal property carries a mandatory minimum sentence of five years — and ordered the men back to prison.​

​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lding-in-rural-oregon/?utm_term=.1d0ca141588d

The Bundys are a troublesome bunch. They pretty much got a slap on the wrist for what they did, and I believe they deserved harsher punishment.

At the same time I feel happy when people win against the Goverment.

 

[gunslikewhoa]

gotta wonder what the server's motivation was

This was my first thought. WTF were they thinking? What is the point?

 

[dionysus]

The Bundys are a troublesome bunch. They pretty much got a slap on the wrist for what they did, and I believe they deserved harsher punishment.

At the same time I feel happy when people win against the Goverment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/us/bundy-ranch-standoff-case-charges-dismissed.html

Basically various prosecutors lost 3 court cases in 3 different jurisdictions and had a mistrial in a 4th due to withholding exculpatory evidence.

They are a troublesome bunch but the government was also abusing its power. The government can be very heavy handed against unsympathetic targets, especially if there is a political gain to be made by being in the news for key players.

 

[pixelperfect]

I just feel we can't get so angry and want to fight, sure people have said a lot to me in my life. I just don't really worry about it, my day will be the same without getting angry about others talking... just how I feel. I don't like that people want to say things to make others angry but I think if you do ignore it... it will go away for sure. People also need the reaction to keep doing it IMO

 

[VQ Prime]

The topic should read:
Black man (employee) prints N-word on receipt for name of fellow black man (customer), apologizes with $10 gift card.

What's w/ the race bait title?

 

[the.acl]

The topic should read:
Black man (employee) prints N-word on receipt for name of fellow black man (customer), apologizes with $10 gift card.

What's w/ the race bait title?

How is it race bait?

Does it matter that the employee was black? The point is that it was inappropriate for an employee to write anything on the back of the receipt other than what he's required by his job to do.

If another fellow Hispanic wrote 'Spic' on the back of my receipt I would probably bring attention to it because he's trying to be funny or a jackass.
The fact they gave him a $10 is laughable too.

 

[mckmas8808]

I just feel we can't get so angry and want to fight, sure people have said a lot to me in my life. I just don't really worry about it, my day will be the same without getting angry about others talking... just how I feel. I don't like that people want to say things to make others angry but I think if you do ignore it... it will go away for sure. People also need the reaction to keep doing it IMO

You sure about that? I have 400 years of proof that somethings actually don't just "go away".

 

[bucyou]

The topic should read:
Black man (employee) prints N-word on receipt for name of fellow black man (customer), apologizes with $10 gift card.

What's w/ the race bait title?

The customer is a female, and that isn't even the dumbest part of your idea for a title.

 

[VQ Prime]

How is it race bait?

Does it matter that the employee was black? The point is that it was inappropriate for an employee to write anything on the back of the receipt other than what he's required by his job to do.

If another fellow Hispanic wrote 'Spic' on the back of my receipt I would probably bring attention to it because he's trying to be funny or a jackass.
The fact they gave him a $10 is laughable too.

So why is this a story and NWA calling blacks Niggers for years, got rich off of it and nobody remembers this?
Then, Ice Cube has the nerve to bash others for using the word when his career was made by using this word. Come on now.

 

[Vicetrailia]

So why is this a story and NWA calling blacks Niggers for years, got rich off of it and nobody remembers this?
Then, Ice Cube has the nerve to bash others for using the word when his career was made by using this word. Come on now.

Context. This is the wrong one.

 

[the.acl]

So why is this a story and NWA calling blacks Niggers for years, got rich off of it and nobody remembers this?
Then, Ice Cube has the nerve to bash others for using the word when his career was made by using this word. Come on now.

What does rap have to do with an employee writting a racial slur on the back of customer's recipt? Just inappropriate and unprofessional.

Also not all black people use the 'N' word. Many find it offensive and refuse to call eachother it. Regardless if the employee was black or not just not appropriate for the work place. Employee writing that on the reciepts of total strangers? C'mon

 

[LegendOfKage]

Context is why those things are treated differently. The term "White Power" literally meant the death and enslavement of a race. The term "Black Power" was said to uplift a race from bondage, legalized rape and murder, and segregation.
If a black person says, "what's up my nigga?" That's different than when a white guy says, "I don't like all these niggers working in here". And even if a white guy were to use the "a" and not the "er" it's hard to determine their motivation.

It's like if you and a friend call each other names and you know that you don't actually hate each other. It's just name-calling within jokes and stuff. But if a stranger said the same thing to your friend, you might get upset and ask the stranger what his problem is. It's context, not a double standard.

Just wanted to quote this, because I agree with it, and it's a good argument for the double standard argument, which just came up in the thread again.

So why is this a story and NWA calling blacks Niggers for years, got rich off of it and nobody remembers this?
Then, Ice Cube has the nerve to bash others for using the word when his career was made by using this word. Come on now.

A double standard would be "black people can use slurs against white people, because that's okay, but white people can't use slurs against black people."

If a white person calls another white person cracker or white trash, that's a completely different context from a black person using those terms about a white person. With a white person saying that, it would be solely focused on the poverty and uncultured aspects of the slur, rather than the aspect that refers to race. The same is true for black people and racial slurs that refer to black people.

 

[Pallas]

My opinion is if the word is offensive one way you should be offended both ways. Meaning if it's that insulting and demeaning it shouldn't be used period. People won't agree with me but continued use of the word in any form just ensures it'll continue to be used in every form.

Exactly, fuck double standards. We'll never get past this shit unless it goes both ways. Equality means same standards for all.

I agree and while context is important, but to help rid of these offensive words that describes someone of their race negatively, we really need to drop the double standards. These offensive words will live as long as they are being used and nothing changes what the original meaning was used for. Racism is sad, disgusting and very unfortunate thing that lives in our time.

I think IHOP had the right reaction to the situation if they fired the employee and offered an apology.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

The fuck can you do with $10 at IHOP? Sounds like she got cheated if you asked me.

A meal.

 

[mckmas8808]

I agree and while context is important, but to help rid of these offensive words that describes someone of their race negatively, we really need to drop the double standards. These offensive words will live as long as they are being used and nothing changes what the original meaning was used for. Racism is sad, disgusting and very unfortunate thing that lives in our time.

I think IHOP had the right reaction to the situation if they fired the employee and offered an apology.

No, you're wrong. These offensive words will live as long as people that are racist keep using them. Racist white people couldn't care less what black people call each other. If we called each other Kings and Queens, they'd still use the "N" word.

No way you truly believe racist white people are listening to rap music and getting their queues from that music do you?

 

[Pallas]

No, you're wrong. These offensive words will live as long as people that are racist keep using them. Racist white people couldn't care less what black people call each other.If we called each other Kings and Queens, they'd still use the "N" word.

No way you truly believe racist white people are listening to rap music and getting their queues from that music do you?

I agree with the bold part, but my thoughts were more or less concerning future generations. Racism is bred at home, children grow up in it and are literally indoctrinated because that’s literally all they know coming from their parents. Not every kid who has racist parents turns into a racist but I imagine them growing up, seeing the word constantly being used regardless who uses it doesn’t help.

You can say I’m wrong and that’s ok, but I’m going to hold onto my opinion.

 

[mckmas8808]

I agree with the bold part, but my thoughts were more or less concerning future generations. Racism is bred at home, children grow up in it and are literally indoctrinated because that’s literally all they know coming from their parents. Not every kid who has racist parents turns into a racist but I imagine them growing up, seeing the word constantly being used regardless who uses it doesn’t help.

You can say I’m wrong and that’s ok, but I’m going to hold onto my opinion.

I'm not going to say you are wrong per say. Clearly black people using the "N" word that ends in an "a", doesn't make things better. You're right there. But I can't live my life trying to change things around for someone that has no interest in my well-being either.

Your heart seems to be in the right place though, so no worries.

 

[way more]

50$ should be the minimum.

Heck, a black guy could set up a booth like this at the fair.

Call me the n-word for 50$. Then you could go up to him and say "sup mah nigga? Phew, that felt good. I always wanted to say that. Here you go."

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

What does rap have to do with an employee writting a racial slur on the back of customer's recipt? Just inappropriate and unprofessional.

It really is.

 

[SpartanN92]

At least they didn’t give her a coupon “3/5ths off your next meal”

Seriously though they shouldn’t have sent any money at all especially an insulting $10. Refund the meal, fire the employee, apologize, the end.

 

[Dad.]

Call me the n-word for 50$. Then you could go up to him and say "sup mah nigga? Phew, that felt good. I always wanted to say that. Here you go."

I don't think the business owner would want to lose $50 every time...

 

[bitbydeath]

I didn't mind because I knew his heart.

This should be what it really boils down to, same rules should apply for anyone (white/black whatever) if the other person isn’t comfortable having it said to them and especially if you don’t know them then you shouldn’t say it.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

Context. This is the wrong one.

It really depends on what side of the argument you are on:

Side 1:
African American's influence culture more than most other races at least proportinally. White people consume the aspects of the culture with reckless abandon and it (the culture generated by African Americans) ends up losing its solidarity. Moreover, even if there is no Mal-intent there is an appropriation and dilution that can mentally, creatively and emotionally exhaust the artists and the original target audience. Until there is a reconciliation of the African American target audience being uplifted from ongoing social inequity you (White Person) can look but don't touch. You've done enough and it gets harder with every cultural progression our art expresses.

Side 2:
This word is holding back progress. It isn't symbolism for taking back dignity from the oppressors anymore instead it is just a cultural red herring. It has created a prejudice that really smells of racism that someone needs to know my intentions before they could hear me utter those words from my lips. My smile, my demeanor, my willingness to even engage... no... none of those things matter because of my White skin. Wasn't that the point White Americans generations ago failed to understand all along? Am I paying for their sins?

 

[camelCase]

It really depends on what side of the argument you are on:

Side 1:
African American's influence culture more than most other races at least proportinally. White people consume the aspects of the culture with reckless abandon and it (the culture generated by African Americans) ends up losing its solidarity. Moreover, even if there is no Mal-intent there is an appropriation and dilution that can mentally, creatively and emotionally exhaust the artists and the original target audience. Until there is a reconciliation of the African American target audience being uplifted from ongoing social inequity you (White Person) can look but don't touch. You've done enough and it gets harder with every cultural progression our art expresses.

I'll argue this one even if you aren't advocating for it

The artist doesn't really have a right to dictate who appreciates their work, or how it shapes culture, right? If you publish it, the understanding is that anyone can get their paws on it (and openly discuss/sing it) and you have to accept that, or not publish. No one would want an artist to say, "no, you over there, you cannot consume my art." That's petty and I think we can all agree that any artist who does that is an asshole and shouldn't have his wishes respected. Why should it matter if we treat it with reckless abandon? Since when are the artists wishes important at all to a consumer? It smacks of "this is OUR thing, fuck off." And having that attitude is not OK. You didn't see many lawsuits when rap was lifting audio from jazz, nor did you see much outrage, but I'll probably be told that's not the same thing at all, even though they are clearly "re-appropriating" music in flagrant disregard of how the original artist feels.

That's what art and culture is, you give something and take something. Everything is built on the shoulders of its predecessors. Stifling that under the guise of something progressive just makes you a curmudgeonly , bigoted person.

I understand why these things may be important to someone for their own sake, say their own view of themselves. But that doesn't warrant them getting mad at me for using the same art to express a different opinion.

Furthermore it wouldn't be popular if white people didn't jump all over it (jazz, rap, soul/funk, etc) and wouldn't have made nearly as much money or a splash socially if whites weren't there buying it by the truckload. The use of the word in music is the fault of the artists themselves and if they wish so dearly to have it only said by their own kind, then stop shouting it on records millions of people are consuming. It is a double standard like a motherfucker.

 

[FStubbs]

Furthermore it wouldn't be popular if white people didn't jump all over it (jazz, rap, soul/funk, etc)

So it's only important when white people listen to it. Gotcha.

 

[Moneal]

So it's only important when white people listen to it. Gotcha.

Important and popular are two very different words. Justin Bieber is popular, but he isn't important. But nice strawman.

 

[FStubbs]

Important and popular are two very different words. Justin Bieber is popular, but he isn't important. But nice strawman.

Okay, we're splitting hairs, but I'll play. White people are the only ones who determine if something is popular or not?

 

[Moneal]

Okay, we're splitting hairs, but I'll play. White people are the only ones who determine if something is popular or not?

again nice strawman. Popularity is based on numbers. In the US, it would be hard for something to be popular nationally without getting a portion of the white population to join in.

 

[FStubbs]

again nice strawman. Popularity is based on numbers. In the US, it would be hard for something to be popular nationally without getting a portion of the white population to join in.

If you can't see why saying something is only popular if white people are involved is problematic there's no helping you.

 

[Moneal]

If you can't see why saying something is only popular if white people are involved is problematic there's no helping you.

keep going on with the strawman. no one said it could not be popular without white people involved. Just that its about impossible to be popular on the national scale without white people liking it, unless everyone other than white people like it. It just numbers, because thats what popularity is. Without at least some of the 60 some odd percent of the white population of the country, its hard to get the numbers to be nationally popular.

Regional or local popularity is quite achievable, its where rap music was before the early 90s. It was popular in the large cities of the coast and almost totally among the black communities.

 

[FStubbs]

keep going on with the strawman. no one said it could not be popular without white people involved. Just that its about impossible to be popular on the national scale without white people liking it, unless everyone other than white people like it. It just numbers, because thats what popularity is. Without at least some of the 60 some odd percent of the white population of the country, its hard to get the numbers to be nationally popular.

Regional or local popularity is quite achievable, its where rap music was before the early 90s. It was popular in the large cities of the coast and almost totally among the black communities.

No one? It was said in the very first post! "Furthermore it wouldn't be popular if white people didn't jump all over it". Which is something you continue to agree with.

My point remains that if you say white people determine what is popular and what is not, and ONLY white people determine what is popular and what is not, then ... well, draw your own conclusion.

Anyway, we're way off topic now. My fault.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'll argue this one even if you aren't advocating for it

The artist doesn't really have a right to dictate who appreciates their work, or how it shapes culture, right? If you publish it, the understanding is that anyone can get their paws on it (and openly discuss/sing it) and you have to accept that, or not publish. No one would want an artist to say, "no, you over there, you cannot consume my art." That's petty and I think we can all agree that any artist who does that is an asshole and shouldn't have his wishes respected. Why should it matter if we treat it with reckless abandon? Since when are the artists wishes important at all to a consumer? It smacks of "this is OUR thing, fuck off." And having that attitude is not OK. You didn't see many lawsuits when rap was lifting audio from jazz, nor did you see much outrage, but I'll probably be told that's not the same thing at all, even though they are clearly "re-appropriating" music in flagrant disregard of how the original artist feels.

That's what art and culture is, you give something and take something. Everything is built on the shoulders of its predecessors. Stifling that under the guise of something progressive just makes you a curmudgeonly , bigoted person.

I understand why these things may be important to someone for their own sake, say their own view of themselves. But that doesn't warrant them getting mad at me for using the same art to express a different opinion.

Furthermore it wouldn't be popular if white people didn't jump all over it (jazz, rap, soul/funk, etc) and wouldn't have made nearly as much money or a splash socially if whites weren't there buying it by the truckload. The use of the word in music is the fault of the artists themselves and if they wish so dearly to have it only said by their own kind, then stop shouting it on records millions of people are consuming. It is a double standard like a motherfucker.

You seem to think white people use the word "Nigger" because they heard it in a song. Why are you so confused here?

 

[camelCase]

You seem to think white people use the word "Nigger" because they heard it in a song. Why are you so confused here?

I made no such assertion, I'm not talking about the hard R. And people do repeat things they heard in music, regardless of the politics of its author. You know KRS One? Doesn't like white people. Doesn't mean I'm not going to sing along to Rappaz R N Dainja or whatever.

Racist whites use that word all the time to disparage african americans. But that's obvious and no ones arguing that those people aren't racist or their use of the word isn't racist.

I also wouldn't compare that person to a guy at a rap concert who sings along. I mean come on, there's no comparison. If you see those two as equally problematic then you got it fucked up.

So it's only important when white people listen to it. Gotcha.

I said popular, not important. But it wouldn't be as important to American culture if the majority of Americans didn't know about it at one point, so I guess yea, it wouldn't be as important either. Not that I give a shit who enjoys a particular genre, I love jazz and I can't find a single person my age white or black who gives half as much of a fuck as I do about it.

 

[camelCase]

Edit: DP

 

[mckmas8808]

I made no such assertion, I'm not talking about the hard R. And people do repeat things they heard in music, regardless of the politics of its author. You know KRS One? Doesn't like white people. Doesn't mean I'm not going to sing along to Rappaz R N Dainja or whatever.

Racist whites use that word all the time to disparage african americans. But that's obvious and no ones arguing that those people aren't racist or their use of the word isn't racist.

I also wouldn't compare that person to a guy at a rap concert who sings along. I mean come on, there's no comparison. If you see those two as equally problematic then you got it fucked up.

You seem to "get" it though. To me, white people that use the "N" word in songs in public either straight up don't care, want to start something, or are just dumb as a box of rocks. How could they not know that some people white and black will look at them with an attitude?

 

[camelCase]

You seem to "get" it though. To me, white people that use the "N" word in songs in public either straight up don't care, want to start something, or are just dumb as a box of rocks. How could they not know that some people white and black will look at them with an attitude?

Edit: On second thought, I don't really want to turn this into accounts from my personal life. As to your post, yeah, I agree with that.

 

[mckmas8808]

Edit: On second thought, I don't really want to turn this into accounts from my personal life. As to your post, yeah, I agree with that.

Ahhhh....you changed your post. Well I'll say you have a reason to be upset with that guy. He didn't "owe" you a conversation, but a conversation none the less would have helped. Could have helped both you and him going forward. Kinda sucks in a way.

 

[camelCase]

Ahhhh....you changed your post. Well I'll say you have a reason to be upset with that guy. He didn't "owe" you a conversation, but a conversation none the less would have helped. Could have helped both you and him going forward. Kinda sucks in a way.

Ah darn, I was afraid someone was quoting it in the time I did that. Sorry. But yeah, after awhile of that shared indifference we crossed paths one day and talked for a while and patched things up, so it all ended up fine.