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[Dalek]

In China, Video of Deadly Accident Reignites Debate Over Lack of Trust

BEIJING — An agonizing traffic accident caught on surveillance cameras has reignited a debate in China about a lack of values and trust in society.

The incident took place on April 21 in Zhumadian, a city in the central province of Henan. The graphic video, which was posted online Wednesday, shows a woman trying to cross a street on a crosswalk during what appears to be a red light for pedestrians.

After crossing two lanes, she is struck by a taxi and tossed in the air before landing on the ground. Then the light turns green for pedestrians. People walk by but do not help, nor do the drivers who were stopped at the light. The woman lifts her head, but the traffic resumes and she is soon run over by an S.U.V. She later died from her injuries.

”If this case was only about the first driver running away after hitting the victim, it would just be a normal traffic accident," said Zhang Xuebing, a lawyer and a former law professor at the East China University of Political Science and Law in Shanghai. ”But the reason it's stirred up a heated discussion is because many onlookers on site didn't help the victim."

The original video has been viewed 30 million times. On Weibo, China's Twitter-like social media site, the original post has been shared 70,000 times and attracted 80,000 comments. On a report on the video by China News, a user called Zhuwu left this comment:

”It is not the onlookers but society that is coldblooded."

Some say the problem is a legal one. In 2006, a man in Nanjing who helped an injured woman get to a hospital was held financially responsible for her treatment on the grounds that he would only have helped if he were responsible. In addition, many Chinese are wary of helping because of numerous scams where people purport to be victims of an injury in order to extract compensation.

”In the aftermath of the Nanjing case, many Chinese worry about the victims turning around to blame the helpers, and thus feel unable to offer direct help," Dali L. Yang, a political scientist at the University of Chicago who has written about the lack of social trust in China, said in an interview.

That was the view of one poster named Ranmo:

”If I helped her to get up and sent her to the hospital, doctors would ask you to pay the medical bill. Her relatives would come and beat you up indiscriminately. Traffic police would then ask you to submit the data in your automobile data recorder and write up your witness account. It would go on till the next morning. Then the relatives would casually say ‘Sorry and thank you' and then you could finally go home, exhausted, and deal with the blood on the back seat of your car. Am I stupid?"

But many people reacted differently. The local police announced that more than a dozen people had called the emergency rescue number, and some have offered help to the victim's family. The police also announced this week after the public outcry that the two drivers of the vehicles that hit the woman had been found. The police added that compensation had been paid to the victim's family, but it was unclear who paid it.

A common concern is that society lacks a moral compass. Some commenters on Weibo noted that onlookers could have saved the woman simply by stopping the traffic. The Weibo user Jillna Chen wrote:

”If someone went to halt the traffic and called the police — didn't even have to help her get up — she wouldn't have died. If one can leave a society that is this coldhearted, that may not be a bad thing."

Concern about the state of morality is reinforced by the frequency of these reports. Last year, a woman was stuffed into the trunk of a car and apparently kidnapped while bystanders did nothing. Also last year, a woman was slashed in an alley, and no witnesses offered help.

The case that arguably started the discussion took place in 2011, when a 2-year-old girl was hit by two vans and pedestrians simply walked by. Ultimately, the girl was carried to the side of a road by a street sweeper — a person often seen as at the lowest rungs of society — which further added to the nation's anguish. The girl died a week later in the hospital.

Since coming to power in 2012, President Xi Jinping has made public morality a top priority. In addition to a better-known anticorruption campaign, the government has introduced a campaign to promote values, many of them traditional.

Video of the incident in question-graphic content-at the link

 

[sant]

I have seen a bunch of videos of people dead in the street and nobody checking on them. Considering their history, it is no surprise they live in a cold and uncaring society.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

After crossing two lanes, she is struck by a taxi and tossed in the air before landing on the ground. Then the light turns green for pedestrians. People walk by but do not help, nor do the drivers who were stopped at the light. The woman lifts her head, but the traffic resumes and she is soon run over by an S.U.V. She later died from her injuries.

Jesus Christ. Is this because of what happened to a guy who helped someone once and he was sued for it? Did that even happen or is it a urban legend people spread to absolves themselves of any responsibility or human decency?

Video isn't working by the way.

 

[jstripes]

I had a bike accident last week, and a Chinese man who was riding behind me just casually went around me and didn't even glance at me bleeding on the ground.

I believe it.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Video's been pulled for being too graphic.

 

[sephi22]

These 2 articles give some insight about how the lady was trying to get hit on purpose and that this is a common enough scenario that pedestrians stopped caring.

Pèngcí (碰瓷 lit. touching porcelain) refers to a predominantly Chinese phenomenon where scammers feign injury in traffic accidents in order to extort money from drivers

http://www.barstoolsports.com/barst...ept-for-maybe-lebron-and-every-soccer-player/
http://www.barstoolsports.com/barst...s-and-as-is-custom-in-china-nobody-helps-her/

Video's available in the second link

EDIT: Nevermind, it's also mentioned in the OP

 

[LordOfChaos]

After crossing two lanes, she is struck by a taxi and tossed in the air before landing on the ground. Then the light turns green for pedestrians. People walk by but do not help, nor do the drivers who were stopped at the light. The woman lifts her head, but the traffic resumes and she is soon run over by an S.U.V. She later died from her injuries.

The mind just reels. So she may have survived had more cars not just run over her after seeing her there. Fucked.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

These 2 articles give some insight about how the lady was trying to get hit on purpose and that this is a common enough scenario that pedestrians stopped caring.

Sounds like Russia.

 

[Memory]

"After crossing two lanes, she is struck by a taxi and tossed in the air before landing on the ground. Then the light turns green for pedestrians. People walk by but do not help, nor do the drivers who were stopped at the light. The woman lifts her head, but the traffic resumes and she is soon run over by an S.U.V. She later died from her injuries."

My fucking god this is tragic, not watching the video of something like that. I can't believe no one gave a fuck about a life they could have saved.

I see the whole scamming thing and a few gaffers posted a while ago about it but once she was hit and clearly injured why did no one help? I mean if your driving a car and someones in front of you you don't go over them.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Had an accident with my bike before, because I was on the bike lane and some chinese driver didnt wanna wait in line at the red traffic light and drove on the bike lane. Honked and I didnt make way.
He then hit me, noticed that and drove in reverse back out and was never seen again. No passerby even checked if I am okay or not. Nothing bad happened, but had to repair my bike and couldnt walk well for one week.

The reason why no one is helping is because of a case a few years ago where some old lady was hit and someone helped her and then the old lady then sued the guy who helped her to pay for all medical bills. Without insurance it might be even "cheaper" to kill someone instead of having the whole family be indebted by medical bills.

I see the whole scamming thing and a few gaffers posted a while ago about it but once she was hit and clearly injured why did no one help? I mean if your driving a car and someones in front of you you don't go over them.

Because the hurt one might sue you and say you hit them and then you have to pay millions of RMB. In China the whole family can be liable sadly.

 

[Messofanego]

Is this just a China thing where helpers of victims are targeted as the perpetrators and have to pay the damages? What a way to breed a culture of apathy.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Video is depressing as fuck, I wouldn't recommend watching it.

The first hit is bad enough, but the second one. Christ. At least the driver stopped and went to check on her.

 

[ViciousDS]

she walked across while she wasn't supposed to correct?


Sounds like she was trying to pull insurance fraud which is insanely common in china.\


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6jgHgu8CyE




except this time, she legit got nailed.........problem is other people have completely ruined people who legit want to help but are insanely scared too.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Is this just a China thing where helpers of victims are targeted as the perpetrators and have to pay the damages? What a way to breed a culture of apathy.

It has to do with like 2-3 dumb court decisions. There are far more decisions where this wont work, but those 2-3 made the society scared to help.

 

[Slayven]

Thats some cold shit

 

[Laekon]

I had a bike accident last week, and a Chinese man who was riding behind me just casually went around me and didn't even glance at me bleeding on the ground.

I believe it.

Were you in China cause this has nothing to do with being Chinese. This crap doesn't happen in Taiwan or other Asian cities with large populations of Chinese heritage like Singapore.

I saw this type of incident first hand in Fujian years ago. A guy was crossing an intersection through traffic when a crane truck took a left while having a red light. The high cab of the crane hit the pedestrian right in the head and he went down like he was made of jello. I was in a van going to the airport and the driver floored it to get around the accident. I ended up hating going anywhere in China besides big cities because of stuff like this. So many people ignore the most basic rules and common courtesies like waiting for lights or driving in the correct lane.

 

[Aurongel]

I wouldn't argue that Chinese society as a whole lacks a moral compass but I would (much like the article does) argue that their bureaucracy and laws fail to encourage moral acts in situations like this. This has been a repeated sentiment for many years now and is brought up a few times a year here on GAF.

 

[jrcbandit]

How is it even possible to be sued for medical bill payments if you help someone? Is it the thought that the person would have just died if no one had helped and the only expenses would have been a funeral? That's messed up beyond belief.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

How is it even possible to be sued for medical bill payments if you help someone? Is it the thought that the person would have just died if no one had helped and the only expenses would have been a funeral? That's messed up beyond belief.

The victim blames you.

 

[Mesoian]

China on their new york shit like whoa.

How is it even possible to be sued for medical bill payments if you help someone? Is it the thought that the person would have just died if no one had helped and the only expenses would have been a funeral? That's messed up beyond belief.

They say that your interaction caused further injuries. For example, someone gets hit by a car and suffers a back injury, but it's the action of helpful bystanders pulling that person out of harm's way that causes a spinal fracture which causes life-long paralysis. There is an argument that the helpers could be found liable for the victim's paralysis. But that's in america, I can't tell you how it works over there.

It's why people say not to touch people who are severely injured until professional assistance arrives. That being said, you can do other things like stop traffic or tell other people to get the police.

 

[Messofanego]

The victim blames you.

Do they get the money if they do?

 

[Aurongel]

How is it even possible to be sued for medical bill payments if you help someone? Is it the thought that the person would have just died if no one had helped and the only expenses would have been a funeral? That's messed up beyond belief.

I believe the insurance laws in the Ukraine/Russia are similar which is why you see dadhcam devices seeing widespread use there by people who commute or drive for a living.

I would love to see a legal explanation for this if anyone has a good source.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

China is BRUTAL for this. Too many stories of people not helping to avoid any legal implications. Even if you are a bystander helping, you'll get sued.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Do they get the money if they do?

Yes. More than enough, because doctors can say whatever.

It only works in areas without traffic cameras though. Scammers use them a lot.

 

[always crazy bacon]

The actual problem is that many victims of an accident try to make money out of it from whoever they can. It's been well reported and documented. so passersby wont take that risk.

Case in point

These guys on bikes think red lights don't apply to them. They get hit and the wont move off the floor pretending to be really hurt once the police arrive. So hurt he can't stop posting online about it??

I personally took this picture last Thursday, but I see it many many times. It's not that the passerby's don't care it's that the "victims" are the ones that don't care.

 

[Harmen]

Not going to watch that video, but that story is just gruesome, jesus. Especially the part that nobody helps/cares? What the hell? This story is disturbing on many levels.


Edit: oh, so there is an underlying legal problem. That is something that needs to be addressed then.

 

[Mesoian]

Do they get the money if they do?

They can, it's the corner stone of insurance fraud. Say you got hit, got a doctor who's in on it, have them provide a professional media opinion that says they can never work again due to the injuries you caused, you're held liable and you need to pay out (through out of pocket and insurance), the "victim" splits the money with the doctor.

Happens all the time. It's why nearly everyone in Russia who owns a car has a dash cam. To be honest, it's a good idea to get one regardless of where you live.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

They can, it's the corner stone of insurance fraud. Say you got hit, got a doctor who's in on it, have them provide a professional media opinion that says they can never work again due to the injuries you caused, you're held liable and you need to pay out (through out of pocket and insurance), the "victim" splits the money with the doctor.

Happens all the time. It's why nearly everyone in Russia who owns a car has a dash cam. To be honest, it's a good idea to get one regardless of where you live.

Most chinese also use a dashcam now because of that. My wifes dad bought one especially for those scenarios.

I also turn it on whenever I drive that car.

 

[Forerunner]

I'm surprised the lady in the SUV actually stopped and got out. I thought she would just keep driving. These videos just make me sick. Such a disregard for human life.

 

[jetjevons]

Just tragic all round.

 

[Mesoian]

Most chinese also use a dashcam now because of that. My wifes dad bought one especially for those scenarios.

I should check in to see if the tech has gotten any better. I was about to pull the trigger on buying one after some woman jumped out in front of me wearing all black one night while I was driving home from the gym, but decided to wait until the price on the one I was looking at went down.

 

[finowns]

Had an accident with my bike before, because I was on the bike lane and some chinese driver didnt wanna wait in line at the red traffic light and drove on the bike lane. Honked and I didnt make way.
He then hit me, noticed that and drove in reverse back out and was never seen again. No passerby even checked if I am okay or not. Nothing bad happened, but had to repair my bike and couldnt walk well for one week.

The reason why no one is helping is because of a case a few years ago where some old lady was hit and someone helped her and then the old lady then sued the guy who helped her to pay for all medical bills. Without insurance it might be even "cheaper" to kill someone instead of having the whole family be indebted by medical bills.



Because the hurt one might sue you and say you hit them and then you have to pay millions of RMB. In China the whole family can be liable sadly.

But surely that old lady didn't win her lawsuit and it has to be very very rare for the person helping to be sued, right? My dad, coming back from fishing, saw an overturned truck with a women trapped inside he got her out before the truck caught fire, the woman was grateful, she didn't sue.

 

[VendettaRed07]

It's honestly not surpirsing.

There's almost no reason to trust anyone or care. Scamming is so damn rampant in China and their legal system basically encourages it.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

I don't get it. How the fuck does the drunk of the SUV run over teh women without giving two shits?

It's disgusting.

 

[Fuzzery]

It's honestly not surpirsing.

There's almost no reason to trust anyone or care. Scamming is so damn rampant in China and their legal system basically encourages it.

Wonder why this doesn't happen in the US since it's more sue happy

 

[NoFaceNico]

Is this just a China thing where helpers of victims are targeted as the perpetrators and have to pay the damages? What a way to breed a culture of apathy.

The US has it too. It's not the easiest way to go but you can sue someone if they make your injures worse when they try to help. Some states have passed Good Samaritan laws to thwart this.

It does exist though and because of that I would be very mindful before trying to help anyone. If it's a broken arm or something I can see myself helping as much as possible but head/neck/back? Absolutely not. I'll call for help and make sure no one else moves them (or runs them over) until competent help arrives. But there's no way I'm touching them if they can't get up on their own no matter what the victim tells me.

 

[1044]

Most chinese also use a dashcam now because of that. My wifes dad bought one especially for those scenarios.

I also turn it on whenever I drive that car.

Plus they can make for some good entertainment.

http://imgur.com/a4foaiU

 

[BHK3]

I've been hearing about this since 2007 when I used to lurk 4chan and liveleak, don't think this something that will get fixed anytime soon.

 

[kiunchbb]

They can, it's the corner stone of insurance fraud. Say you got hit, got a doctor who's in on it, have them provide a professional media opinion that says they can never work again due to the injuries you caused, you're held liable and you need to pay out (through out of pocket and insurance), the "victim" splits the money with the doctor.

Happens all the time. It's why nearly everyone in Russia who owns a car has a dash cam. To be honest, it's a good idea to get one regardless of where you live.

Someone I know in US did this, got hit by a car, no visible permanent injury, but that person convinced a doctor to make up a report. Used the settlement to buy a house, happy end.


Except for the driver and insurance company.

 

[The Lamp]

The weibo link in the article shows the full video and my god that made me ill. That was deeply unsettling. Imagine walking somewhere on a normal day and then suddenly being struck so hard you can't get up and then next thing you know you're dead.

 

[Mimosa97]

Video was taken down. Anyone got a mirror ?

 

[Xiao Hu]

I could write papers about this behaviour but it all boils down to China's lackluster legal situation regarding The good Samaritan concept/law (so far only Shanghai has implemented that as far as I know), insurance policies, lack of universal health care system and the notion of not interfering with other people's business (even if they're in trouble).

 

[SciencePilot]

Wow, what a truly horrible situation.

It seems that culture itself has failed in this case. You can't blame the individual passerby, given the fraud cases posted here: it seems each individual person is acting in their best interests. Therefore it is society itself that is at fault.

How do you even begin to fix something like that?

 

[The Lamp]

Video was taken down. Anyone got a mirror ?

Its in the original article. check the weibo link

 

[Messofanego]

The actual problem is that many victims of an accident try to make money out of it from whoever they can. It's been well reported and documented. so passersby wont take that risk.

Case in point

These guys on bikes think red lights don't apply to them. They get hit and the wont move off the floor pretending to be really hurt once the police arrive. So hurt he can't stop posting online about it??

I personally took this picture last Thursday, but I see it many many times. It's not that the passerby's don't care it's that the "victims" are the ones that don't care.

Wow. Thanks for taking that photo. Kind of crazy and sad.

 

[Camwi]

A word of advice - don't look up that video of the two-year-old getting run over that is mentioned in the article. That shit is traumatizing.

 

[Mimosa97]

Its in the original article. check the weibo link

Weibo link sends me to some kind of homepage with tons of different posts

 

[Brian Griffin]

A word of advice - don't look up that video of the two-year-old getting run over that is mentioned in the article. That shit is traumatizing.

I was gonna mention this. Insurance fraud or not in this woman's case, many Chinese people don't seem to give a fuck about others when they get hit by cars, including kids as that video shows.

 

[The Technomancer]

Chinese traffic is also fucking terrifying. Its one of the few things I'm still not used to at all, crossing the street on foot even when you have the right of way feels like a tightrope act

 

[Agent_ShortBus]

I should check in to see if the tech has gotten any better. I was about to pull the trigger on buying one after some woman jumped out in front of me wearing all black one night while I was driving home from the gym, but decided to wait until the price on the one I was looking at went down.

A really good but not super expensive dash cam I'd recommend is the viofo a119s it's only like $120 and comes with the gps attachment does 1080p at 60fps. Everyone should honestly have a dash cam.

Here's a test video I captured. Sorry about the music but I like higher brothers lol. https://youtu.be/13vIwHa2V1k