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In your opinion, what is the "best" President?

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Seeing as how there was a worst President, I thought it would be fitting to find out who you all think was the best. I think it'll be more interesting seeing who you all thought was the best than worst. I'd go with Abraham Lincoln; ended the very thing that we came to America to get away from.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Synbios459 said:
I'd go with Abraham Lincoln; ended the very thing that we came to America to get away from.
Religious intolerance? I don't recall Lincoln doing anything to end that. People certainly weren't coming to the newly discovered Americas in order to end slavery...
 
Best: George Washington

Honorable Mention: Lincoln, FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Clinton.

Worst: Herbert Hoover

Dishonorable Mention: Warren G. Harding, Ronald Regan, George W. Bush.
 

Prine

Banned
As a non American, i've always liked Clinton. Like a movie star, the guy had so much charisma. As a kid i thought he was cool.

Bush seems like he doesnt have a clue.
 

drohne

hyperbolically metafictive
the funky president.

jbrown.jpg
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
LinesInTheSand said:
George W Bush
Ahh yes, the greatest and most honorable President in history.

:rolleyes:

This country has turned retarded.

/intended at anyone who would seriously say GWB, even if that wasn't a serious reply
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Dan said:
Religious intolerance? I don't recall Lincoln doing anything to end that. People certainly weren't coming to the newly discovered Americas in order to end slavery...
Schoolhouse fables aside, the primary reason for the colonization of America was money. Mercantilism and all those other fancy terms.

Now, the colony of Rhode Island was indeed formed for solely religious reasons(being kicked out of the then-ever-so-tolerant colony just to the north ), but that doesn't apply to everywhere else... and especially not Jamestown.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
I'd say FDR only barely edges out Lincoln, though they're pretty much in a dead heat.

Washington wasn't really that great of a President. His big importance and great contribution as President was the establishment of many precednets, effectively taking the Constitution's theoretical outline of government and making it work in the real world and filling in all of the many, many blanks the Constitution left. And you also have to account for the fact that Washington was despised as President and vilified as King George. It wasn't until after he died that he regained his saintly reputation and once again was viewed as sort of a god among men. Still a Top 5 President, though.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
nathkenn said:
how about we dissolve the office, the two party system, and actually have a real democracy
Because the founding fathers didn't trust the masses, and they were right not to.
 

fennec fox

ferrets ferrets ferrets ferrets FERRETS!!!
Well, there should be no debating the fact that George Washington is the greatest president to ever hold office. He won a revolutionary war, gave up military power afterwards (try to see some revolutionary doing that today), suppressed further rebellions, presided over the Constitutional Convention, and more-or-less originated the two-term limit we have today.

After that, Thomas Jefferson is also fine -- he brought about the Louisiana Purchase, which irrevocably altered the US' destiny as a frontier republic, for better or worse. He also dealt personally with the Alien/Sedition Acts, which are certainly the worst laws to ever be passed by Congress. FDR aptly took the country through one of the worst periods in its history.
 

Matt

Member
MetatronM said:
I'd say FDR only barely edges out Lincoln, though they're pretty much in a dead heat.

Washington wasn't really that great of a President. His big importance and great contribution as President was the establishment of many precednets, effectively taking the Constitution's theoretical outline of government and making it work in the real world and filling in all of the many, many blanks the Constitution left. And you also have to account for the fact that Washington was despised as President and vilified as King George. It wasn't until after he died that he regained his saintly reputation and once again was viewed as sort of a god among men. Still a Top 5 President, though.
Where did you hear that? Washington was pretty much loved by everyone. And I think he was the greatest President in history mainly because, if their was no Washington, there wouldn’t be a United States.
 
demon said:
Ahh yes, the greatest and most honorable President in history.

:rolleyes:

This country has turned retarded.

/intended at anyone who would seriously say GWB, even if that wasn't a serious reply
Who would your choice be oh great one?
 

NLB2

Banned
Dan said:
Religious intolerance? I don't recall Lincoln doing anything to end that. People certainly weren't coming to the newly discovered Americas in order to end slavery...
I think Synbios was reffering to personal liberty in general. Does that fit the bill?
 

RiZ III

Member
The only presidents which I lived under are Bush, Clinton and the cyborg monkey. From that list, I choose Clinton.
 

Kon Tiki

Banned
What ever president was in office when the canadian/british burned down the Pink House.

Imagine the shame you would have had today if you had a stronger leader. Weak is better.
 

Matt

Member
Society said:
What ever president was in office when the canadian/british burned down the Pink House.

Imagine the shame you would have had today if you had a stronger leader. Weak is better.
Wow, there are so many things wrong with that post...
 

fennec fox

ferrets ferrets ferrets ferrets FERRETS!!!
RiZ III said:
The only presidents which I lived under are Bush, Clinton and the cyborg monkey. From that list, I choose Clinton.
Aren't you a little young for Aqua Teen Hunger Force, then? :D
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
NLB2 said:
I think Synbios was reffering to personal liberty in general. Does that fit the bill?
No. Lincoln certainly didn't achieve that. No one has to this day.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
Matt said:
Where did you hear that? Washington was pretty much loved by everyone. And I think he was the greatest President in history mainly because, if their was no Washington, there wouldn’t be a United States.
Well, the hatred of Washington was, admittedly, something of a partisan issue. It really first arose in practice in response to Washington's Neutrality Proclamation in 1793, when everybody pretty much went crazy over the issue of whether or not the President could do such a thing. In fact, James Madison wrote that such executive control over foreign policy was "a tyranny." You have to remember that those early years of the union were some of the most vehemently partisan and polarizing years in the nation's history. While Washington walked into the Presidency as the unanimous choice, by the time he left, probably close to half the people in the country wouldn't be remiss to spit on the ground on which he walked. That would change again when he died and once again became George Washington, Father of America, but it is telling that following Washington's immediate successor, not only did the opposition hold the office for many consecutive terms, but Washington's own party (or at least the party that built up around Washington) completely died off altogether.

The notion that Washington was a forever loved and infallible founding father and leader is a more modern construct of history.
 

Matt

Member
MetatronM said:
Well, the hatred of Washington was, admittedly, something of a partisan issue. It really first arose in practice in response to Washington's Neutrality Proclamation in 1793, when everybody pretty much went crazy over the issue of whether or not the President could do such a thing. In fact, James Madison wrote that such executive control over foreign policy was "a tyranny." You have to remember that those early years of the union were some of the most vehemently partisan and polarizing years in the nation's history. While Washington walked into the Presidency as the unanimous choice, by the time he left, probably close to half the people in the country wouldn't be remiss to spit on the ground on which he walked. That would change again when he died and once again became George Washington, Father of America, but it is telling that following Washington's immediate successor, not only did the opposition hold the office for many consecutive terms, but Washington's own party (or at least the party that built up around Washington) completely died off altogether.

The notion that Washington was a forever loved and infallible founding father and leader is a more modern construct of history.
I have heard that interpretation of history before, but the fact that Washington was offered “President for Life” shortly before he left sort of undermines that notion, and by the fact that if he had ran a third time, he would have won a third time.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
Matt said:
I have heard that interpretation of history before, but the fact that Washington was offered “President for Life” shortly before he left sort of undermines that notion...
He was never offered "President for Life," at least as far as I know. In fact, there are too many things fundamentally wrong with such a notion for it to have even been possible. Firstly, to do such a thing would be to totally undermine the fledgling Constitution and prove the arguments of Madison and Jefferson to be true. Secondly, the Constitution placed no limit. Nothing really stood in his way if he wanted to be President for the rest of his days as it was. He might have a tougher time getting elected, but he probably could have been elected at least one more time, which would have made him President until his death in 1799. Maybe it was proposed by some more radical Federalists or perhaps in personal correspondence, but it was certainly never offered in any official capacity.

To further back up my point, here is an excerpt from James Flexner's biography of Washington:

"Rather than stilling public controversy as he had hoped, his ratification of the Jay Treaty had turned the anger on himself. The broad public, which had previously resented attacks on their hero, now accepted them with avidity. Every aspect of his career was discussed insultingly in the newspapers. He had been made commander in chief because he was such a nonentity that Congress was convinced that he could not become a tyrant--but how wrong Congress had been! Even the infirmities of old age were used to blast at him. Why did he not walk around or ride horseback as he used to do? That he only passed through the streets in his well-appointed carriage surely expressed anti-Republican disdain."
 

firex

Member
Teddy Roosevelt is probably my personal favorite, even if he did go a little crazy in his later years and embellished his march up the hill in Cuba. By far one of the few Presidents more than willing to change things he saw as unethical towards everyday Americans.

I personally feel that if he hadn't been President, America would be even more tightly controlled by big business than it is now.
 

Matt

Member
MetatronM said:
He was never offered "President for Life," at least as far as I know. In fact, there are too many things fundamentally wrong with such a notion for it to have even been possible. Firstly, to do such a thing would be to totally undermine the fledgling Constitution and prove the arguments of Madison and Jefferson to be true. Secondly, the Constitution placed no limit. Nothing really stood in his way if he wanted to be President for the rest of his days as it was. He might have a tougher time getting elected, but he probably could have been elected at least one more time, which would have made him President until his death in 1799. Maybe it was proposed by some more radical Federalists or perhaps in personal correspondence, but it was certainly never offered in any official capacity.

To further back up my point, here is an excerpt from James Flexner's biography of Washington:

"Rather than stilling public controversy as he had hoped, his ratification of the Jay Treaty had turned the anger on himself. The broad public, which had previously resented attacks on their hero, now accepted them with avidity. Every aspect of his career was discussed insultingly in the newspapers. He had been made commander in chief because he was such a nonentity that Congress was convinced that he could not become a tyrant--but how wrong Congress had been! Even the infirmities of old age were used to blast at him. Why did he not walk around or ride horseback as he used to do? That he only passed through the streets in his well-appointed carriage surely expressed anti-Republican disdain."
But Presidents don’t ratify treaties...
 

J2 Cool

Member
I'd say FDR. Just seemed the most powerful which is odd being he was in a wheelchair but he had the biggest impact on the nation
 
The one who was kidnapped by ninjas. He showed a lot of guts to endure that ordeal. Plus, he got to meet the bad dudes in person. You've got to admire that.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
Matt said:
But Presidents don’t ratify treaties...
It was ratified by the Senate (rather easily actually), but was supported by Washington and as such attached to him in the political fallout by the Democratic-Republicans.
 

Matt

Member
MetatronM said:
It was ratified by the Senate (rather easily actually), but was supported by Washington and as such attached to him in the political fallout by the Democratic-Republicans.
Yeah, I know, I was just messing with you.

What it comes down to is nothing I have read on my own indicates that Washington was disliked. That doesn’t make it true. You could be right, or I could be right. But he was certainly loved before and after the time you draw into question, which is enough for me.

P.S: The "President-for-Life" bit came from many of the accounts of Washington’s Presidency I have read, not to mention a plaque inside the Washington Monument... :)
 

xabre

Banned
As a non American, i've always liked Clinton. Like a movie star, the guy had so much charisma. As a kid i thought he was cool.

Yeah I didn't mind Clinton at all. If the worst that could be pinned on him was a bit of infidelity then he can't have been too bad. The US could have done far worse.....oh wait THEY DID!!!

lol :D
 
Washington was the best President. He was a war hero so popular that he won the electoral college vote unanimously, and unlike every other veteran president, he kicked ass as a politician. He was our only independent president, and the shunning of his anti-political party philosophy has severely hurt the country ever since. Washington set the example for presidents; all others are judged by his performance. Certainly his terms were not perfect and have indeed been glossed over since then, but the man very clearly kicked ass.

Herbert Hoover is a pretty easy choice for worst president, but FDR wins the award for president with the most historically candy-coated reputation. His social programs didn't pull America out of the Great Depression, WWII did. He was a fine war-time president, but the "ABC" social programs he instituted have unfortunately been propogated over generations when they were only meant to be short-term solutions. For instance, the government-subsidized Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) electric company in Alabama has effectively shut out private competition for decades, because it still receives Depression-era federal funding which allows it to set prices that other providers can't approach. All Americans are paying extra so that the citizens of Huntsville and other cities in the area can have cheaper electricity; I'm sure Californians would be happy to learn of that.

FDR is also responsible for moving our government much, much closer to an authoritarian system. The presidency became many times more powerful during his terms, as a result of his personal egomania (four terms in office!) and a pussy legislature that was so afraid of the Depression that they gave him whatever he asked for. One hundred-fifty years after Washington refused to be called "Your Highness" by the Continental Congress, FDR transformed the office into a position of power few kings in history could rival.
 
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