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[CharlieDigital]

I just watched DoS last night with my wife and while I have not read the book, I think my question is still valid: why does Smaug need/want a giant pile of gold?

It's not as if he needs it to buy food. He can just ransack a village and eat anything he wants.

He doesn't need to hire a mercenary army. He's a giant, flying, fire breathing dragon.

I read the Wiki page on Smaug and it had this bit:

Centuries spent sleeping atop his gold hoard caused gold and gemstones to become embedded in the flesh of Smaug's belly​

Shit man, he decimated a Dwarven city just to sleep on a pile of gold?

Silly dragon, you don't need gold.

EDIT - In a nutshell:

Morgoth/Melkor bred them and created them to be that way

There's some speculation here (with some quotes from Tolkien letters) that they basically feed off the evil energy in gold

Sauron’s power was not (for example) in gold as such, but in a particular form or shape made of a particular portion of total gold. Morgoth’s power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such ‘magic’ and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)

Dragons have an affinity for gold. They like to gather it up in a huge mound and lay upon it. Tolkien’s reasoning may be that they are thus nourished by the Morgoth-element which is present in gold, indeed which is stronger in gold than in other substances (such as silver and water). This could explain how dragons are able to go for long periods of time without actually eating anything. The gold sustains them, and is thus as important to them as food would be to a starving man on a desert island. It could also explain why the dragons experienced a period of decline. Their power would be diminished without Morgoth to control them, and until they could accumulate new hoards they would be very weak.

 

[Mupod]

Dragons like gold the same way cats like boxes.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Tolkien's dragons are like the living embodiment of the sin of greed. They obviously have no need for all dat gold, but they covet it none the less. Like a magpie with shiny objects. Except a 200 foot long, scaly, fire-breathing magpie.

 

[Bregor]

Pure greed.

Dragons steal gold and jewels, you know, from men and elves and dwarves, wherever they can find them; and they guard their plunder as long as they live (which is practically forever, unless they are killed), and never enjoy a brass ring of it. Indeed they hardly know a good bit of work from a bag, though they usually have a good notion of the current market value; and they can't make a thing for themselves, not even mend a little loose scale of their armour. ... There was a most specially greedy, strong and wicked worm called Smaug.

 

[obin_gam]

he's a dragon.
dragon likes gold.

it's not rocket science.

 

[Perspicacity]

Rap cred

 

[WanderingWind]

I just watched DoS last night with my wife and while I have not read the book, I think my question is still valid: why does Smaug need/want a giant pile of gold?

It's not as if he needs it to buy food. He can just ransack a village and eat anything he wants.

He doesn't need to hire a mercenary army. He's a giant, flying, fire breathing dragon.

I read the Wiki page on Smaug and it had this bit:

Centuries spent sleeping atop his gold hoard caused gold and gemstones to become embedded in the flesh of Smaug's belly​

Shit man, he decimated a Dwarven city just to sleep on a pile of gold?

Silly dragon, you don't need gold.

Okay, so this is from Flight of Dragons, which I consider the ultimate in dragon canon. Gold is basically the softest thing a dragon can lay on without almost accidentally setting it on fire during their long slumbers. Add to that fact that Smaug is just a dick and you have the reason.

 

[foxdvd]

Watch an episode of hoarders and replace the junk with gold..

 

[CharlieDigital]

Pure greed.

Sorry man; that doesn't compute to me.

Greed makes sense as a motivation if he had use for the gold. For example, he wanted to build the most righteous dragon cave or if he wanted to you know, extract value in exchange for the gold.

What would he exchange gold for and with whom would he exchange it? He has no practical use for it so it can't be called greed.

Okay, so this is from Flight of Dragons, which I consider the ultimate in dragon canon. Gold is basically the softest thing a dragon can lay on without almost accidentally setting it on fire during their long slumbers. Add to that fact that Smaug is just a dick and you have the reason.

Greed doesn't make sense if he doesn't intend to use the gold for anything except to sleep on it. And even then, it doesn't make sense to kill the Dwarves instead of enslaving them because once you kill them, you have a fixed supply of gold. Enslave the Dwarves and Smaug has an infinite supply of gold to sleep on. Not that he needs it because all he needs is 200m^2 and he should be all set.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Sorry man; that doesn't compute to me.

Greed makes sense as a motivation if he had use for the gold. For example, he wanted to build the most righteous dragon cave or if he wanted to you know, extract value in exchange for the gold.

Greed doesn't make sense if he doesn't intend to use the gold for anything except to sleep on it. And even then, it doesn't make sense to kill the Dwarves instead of enslaving them because once you kill them, you have a fixed supply of gold.

It doesn't really make sense that there would be a winged talking reptile if we're going to pick holes. There's not really much motivation to Smaug outside of "he's an evil dick"

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

Tolkien wanted to allude to his translation of Beowulf in a lame attempt to boost sales.

 

[Jokergrin]

Dragons like shiny stuff

 

[WanderingWind]

Sorry man; that doesn't compute to me.

Greed makes sense as a motivation if he had use for the gold. For example, he wanted to build the most righteous dragon cave or if he wanted to you know, extract value in exchange for the gold.

Greed doesn't make sense if he doesn't intend to use the gold for anything except to sleep on it. And even then, it doesn't make sense to kill the Dwarves instead of enslaving them because once you kill them, you have a fixed supply of gold.

It doesn't compute because dragons are like, not humans. (Also, you know, not real). And by the way, throw your bed out, then try to sleep on the ground for like, 100 years straight. You may be a little more anxious to have an awesome soft bed for the next go 'round.

 

[Aklamarth]

To pay his taxes. Dooooh.....

 

[CharlieDigital]

It doesn't really make sense that there would be a winged talking reptile if we're going to pick holes. There's not really much motivation to Smaug outside of "he's an evil dick"

It doesn't compute because dragons are like, not humans. (Also, you know, not real). And by the way, throw your bed out, then try to sleep on the ground for like, 100 years straight. You may be a little more anxious to have an awesome soft bed for the next go 'round.

Of course, the whole thing is fiction, but what I failed to grasp is the motivation of the character. It seems that there is no reasonable motivation for him to want all of that gold.

Even if it were for a soft cushy mattress of gold, why not just bargain with the Dwarves and say "Hey look, provide me with enough gold to sleep on and I'll protect your city in return". It would not have even made a dent in their gold supply and Smaug could slumber in peace.

 

[Ghizz]

going to derail the thread.....anyone else love the MOUNTS in the hobbit? godamn...

Elf King with his deer with HUGE antlers that rekt the orcs....

Dwarf King with little metal-armored boar that just YOLO'd through the orcs....

and the dwarves with their rams that climbed up the mountain (there was that one scene where the 4 dwarves with their rams were running up the mountain that could bypass the road by climbing on the rocks.... gave me nerd shivers LOL)

 

[Bregor]

Sorry man; that doesn't compute to me.

Greed makes sense as a motivation if he had use for the gold. For example, he wanted to build the most righteous dragon cave or if he wanted to you know, extract value in exchange for the gold.

What would he exchange gold for and with whom would he exchange it? He has no practical use for it so it can't be called greed.



Greed doesn't make sense if he doesn't intend to use the gold for anything except to sleep on it. And even then, it doesn't make sense to kill the Dwarves instead of enslaving them because once you kill them, you have a fixed supply of gold. Enslave the Dwarves and Smaug has an infinite supply of gold to sleep on. Not that he needs it because all he needs is 200m^2 and he should be all set.

Greed doesn't require an item to be a necessity or even functional to be desirable. Real life people have wanted enormous palaces beyond their needs, Faberge eggs, and even more 'worthless' items. And real life people have had greed for gold far beyond their capability to spend it. It is quite plausible that a fantasy creature would want it.

Just because you wouldn't think that way doesn't mean that others could not conceivably do so.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Sorry man; that doesn't compute to me.

Greed makes sense as a motivation if he had use for the gold. For example, he wanted to build the most righteous dragon cave or if he wanted to you know, extract value in exchange for the gold.

What would he exchange gold for and with whom would he exchange it? He has no practical use for it so it can't be called greed.



Greed doesn't make sense if he doesn't intend to use the gold for anything except to sleep on it. And even then, it doesn't make sense to kill the Dwarves instead of enslaving them because once you kill them, you have a fixed supply of gold. Enslave the Dwarves and Smaug has an infinite supply of gold to sleep on. Not that he needs it because all he needs is 200m^2 and he should be all set.

Thats not true. Greed means he doesnt want to exchange it gor goods. He just wants shinies.

 

[John Kowalski]

it's shiny and shit

 

[Skiptastic]

Sorry man; that doesn't compute to me.

He's a fantasy lizard. Don't apply your real life, human emotions to it. He doesn't have the same value structure that you do.

 

[andycapps]

Of course, the whole thing is fiction, but what I failed to grasp is the motivation of the character. It seems that there is no reasonable motivation for him to want all of that gold.

Even if it were for a soft cushy mattress of gold, why not just bargain with the Dwarves and say "Hey look, provide me with enough gold to sleep on and I'll protect your city in return". It would not have even made a dent in their gold supply and Smaug could slumber in peace.

There is motivation. In Tolkien's universe, dragons want gold. You're trying to apply your thinking to something where it doesn't apply.

The dwarves were miners and had tons of gold, thus they dealt with dragons attacking them. Smaug came along and took over their old kingdom and was content to chill there with all that gold forever. That's all they want.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Greed doesn't require an item to be a necessity or even functional to be desirable. Real life people have wanted enormous palaces beyond their needs, Faberge eggs, and even more 'worthless' items. And real life people have had greed for gold far beyond their capability to spend it. It is quite plausible that a fantasy creature would want it.

Just because you wouldn't think that way doesn't mean that others could not conceivably do so.

Take it a step back.

Real life people want wealth because money can be exchanged for goods and services. The analog to gold would be money and of course, the greedy want money because it can be used to acquire goods, build a mansion, buy luxurious foods; the motivation is clear.

Smaug...he's just sleeping on it.

He's a fantasy lizard. Don't apply your real life, human emotions to it. He doesn't have the same value structure that you do.

I jest, but it's a literary question: what is this character's motivation?

There is motivation. In Tolkien's universe, dragons want gold. You're trying to apply your thinking to something where it doesn't apply.

The dwarves were miners and had tons of gold, thus they dealt with dragons attacking them. Smaug came along and took over their old kingdom and was content to chill there with all that gold forever. That's all they want.

That's where it breaks down because if he keeps the Dwarves alive or exchanges his protection for gold, he could have an infinite supply of gold instead of a fixed supply.

 

[Currygan]

Sorry man; that doesn't compute to me.

Greed makes sense as a motivation if he had use for the gold. For example, he wanted to build the most righteous dragon cave or if he wanted to you know, extract value in exchange for the gold.

What would he exchange gold for and with whom would he exchange it? He has no practical use for it so it can't be called greed.



Greed doesn't make sense if he doesn't intend to use the gold for anything except to sleep on it. And even then, it doesn't make sense to kill the Dwarves instead of enslaving them because once you kill them, you have a fixed supply of gold. Enslave the Dwarves and Smaug has an infinite supply of gold to sleep on. Not that he needs it because all he needs is 200m^2 and he should be all set.

isn't one of the most common traits of being greedy just accumulate for the sake of it? you ever read Dickens' A Christmas Carol or Moliere's The Miser?

 

[WanderingWind]

Of course, the whole thing is fiction, but what I failed to grasp is the motivation of the character. It seems that there is no reasonable motivation for him to want all of that gold.

Even if it were for a soft cushy mattress of gold, why not just bargain with the Dwarves and say "Hey look, provide me with enough gold to sleep on and I'll protect your city in return". It would not have even made a dent in their gold supply and Smaug could slumber in peace.

Because he's smart enough to know the Dwarves would fight, and he's not invincible. Now, just swooping down and destroying everything in a fiery blaze that scares people so bad that they just leave you alone forever? That's a win-win, baby. Plus, again, and I can't stress this enough, but talking things out and negotiating are what cool people do. Smaug is literally a creation of Middle-Earth's devil and is very much not a cool guy. He's a super dick so the fun is in the slaughter and spreading of fear. Then, nap time!

And he did enslave goblins and orcs to bring him gold for his treasury. Dwarves are just too stubborn.

 

[nrvalleytime]

Greed doesn't require an item to be a necessity or even functional to be desirable. Real life people have wanted enormous palaces beyond their needs, Faberge eggs, and even more 'worthless' items. And real life people have had greed for gold far beyond their capability to spend it. It is quite plausible that a fantasy creature would want it.

Just because you wouldn't think that way doesn't mean that others could not conceivably do so.

This.

The motivations of evil are often nonsensical beyond wanting to destroy, possess, and plunder - Smaug is a physical manifestation of the greed lurking within Thorin, which is partly why he comes as a response to the hoard. Tolkien makes it clear that digging too long and too far for wealth will bring destruction (both in Moria and The Dwarf Kingdom).

Take it a step back.

Real life people want wealth because money can be exchanged for goods and services. The analog to gold would be money and of course, the greedy want money because it can be used to acquire goods, build a mansion, buy luxurious foods; the motivation is clear.

Smaug...he's just sleeping on it.

No. That's not true. Wealth is often a fear that drives someone just to acquire more - that's all Smaug cares about. He has no needs, hunger, or reason to leave the Mountain. It just is.

 

[GingerNathan]

Thats not true. Greed means he doesnt want to exchange it gor goods. He just wants shinies.

Indeed, my boss is like that, absolutely hates spending even the smallest amount of money unless there's future gain. Happiest I ever see him is when he's watching his millions grow, outside of the his rich man's 'I want all of the money' syndrome he has very little interest in spending his money to actually enjoy himself.

 

[andycapps]

That's where it breaks down because if he keeps the Dwarves alive or exchanges his protection for gold, he could have an infinite supply of gold instead of a fixed supply.

He doesn't want the dwarves around because they wouldn't just stick around and be his slaves forever, they'd fight him. He wants them out of there and wants to take all their gold.

You're also assuming that resources are infinite.

 

[Bregor]

Take it a step back.

Real life people want wealth because money can be exchanged for goods and services. The analog to gold would be money and of course, the greedy want money because it can be used to acquire goods, build a mansion, buy luxurious foods; the motivation is clear.

Smaug...he's just sleeping on it.

Sorry, but just declaring that people want wealth only for goods and services does not make it so. There is a real phenomena called greed, the desire for things for no reason other than possessing them. It has many examples throughout history.

Why did Imelda Marcos have 3000 pairs of shoes? Did she need all of them?

Stop pretending that such motivations don't exist, they do.

 

[Skiptastic]

I jest, but it's a literary question: what is this character's motivation?

You're asking for his motivation to be driven by utility and rationality instead of emotion and impulse. Smaug wanted the gold because that's what drives him. He is greedy not for utility (sleeping on gold for dragon reasons aside) but because that's his nature.

Why does Sauron want to rule the world instead of just ruling the orcs in Mordor? What does he gain from having a rule on everything else? What does the land hold for him? There isn't much utility for him, other than the fact that he would be the ruler of the world. He's just fucking evil and that drives him. Apply similar reasoning to Smaug.

Sorry, but just declaring that people want wealth only for goods and services does not make it so. There is a real phenomena called greed, the desire for things for no reason other than possessing them. It has many examples throughout history.

Why did Imelda Marcos have 3000 pairs of shoes? Did she need all of them?

Stop pretending that such motivations don't exist, they do.

Basically, what he said!

 

[Ezalc]

Of course, the whole thing is fiction, but what I failed to grasp is the motivation of the character. It seems that there is no reasonable motivation for him to want all of that gold.

Even if it were for a soft cushy mattress of gold, why not just bargain with the Dwarves and say "Hey look, provide me with enough gold to sleep on and I'll protect your city in return". It would not have even made a dent in their gold supply and Smaug could slumber in peace.

Because he's an asshole. Why would he bother to bargain with them when he can just come in and take everything by force.

 

[Megalosaro]

Tolkien was justntrying to invoke fairy tale tropes. It is as simple as that.

 

[Cheerilee]

Sorry man; that doesn't compute to me.

Greed makes sense as a motivation if he had use for the gold. For example, he wanted to build the most righteous dragon cave or if he wanted to you know, extract value in exchange for the gold.

What would he exchange gold for and with whom would he exchange it? He has no practical use for it so it can't be called greed.



Greed doesn't make sense if he doesn't intend to use the gold for anything except to sleep on it. And even then, it doesn't make sense to kill the Dwarves instead of enslaving them because once you kill them, you have a fixed supply of gold. Enslave the Dwarves and Smaug has an infinite supply of gold to sleep on. Not that he needs it because all he needs is 200m^2 and he should be all set.

Dragons are alpha as fuck. They have no use for money, but they see little Dwarves and fishermen using it as currency, and they see how much those little people value it, so they walk into town, push some people over, pick up their wallets, and say "What are you going to do about it, bitch?"

Every coin is a tiny little trophy, proving how much better a Dragon is than anyone else. Every coin represents a moment when Smaug got off on his own power. He could enslave some Dwarves and get infinite gold, but that would just be one trophy, and it would get old pretty quick.

 

[alterno69]

Take it a step back.

Real life people want wealth because money can be exchanged for goods and services. The analog to gold would be money and of course, the greedy want money because it can be used to acquire goods, build a mansion, buy luxurious foods; the motivation is clear.

Smaug...he's just sleeping on it.



I jest, but it's a literary question: what is this character's motivation?



That's where it breaks down because if he keeps the Dwarves alive or exchanges his protection for gold, he could have an infinite supply of gold instead of a fixed supply.

Think of Smaug as an average neogaf poster, he hoards gold just like some of us like to collect videogames we never intend to play, or My Little Pony merchandise, he's just a huge nerd, for gold.

 

[WanderingWind]

Hell, we have people right now sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars and doing precisely dick with it. They're, figuratively speaking, dragons sleeping on bed of gold. No need for historical context.

 

[CharlieDigital]

No. That's not true. Wealth is often a fear that drives someone just to acquire more - that's all Smaug cares about. He has no needs, hunger, or reason to leave the Mountain. It just is.

Indeed, my boss is like that, absolutely hates spending even the smallest amount of money unless there's future gain. Happiest I ever see him is when he's watching his millions grow, outside of the his rich man's 'I want all of the money' syndrome he has very little interest in spending his money to actually enjoy himself.

Ah, but that goes back to one of my points: he in fact, does not acquire more. His supply of gold is now fixed. He does, indeed, have a amount of gold at which he is satisfied and happy. He does not leave Erebor and instead slumbers on a finite hoard of gold. If it is literary allegory, then his greed is not unbounded and in fact, knows an end.

Smaug is a physical manifestation of the greed lurking within Thorin, which is partly why he comes as a response to the hoard. Tolkien makes it clear that digging too long and too far for wealth will bring destruction (both in Moria and The Dwarf Kingdom).

I like this, but still, see my point above. By slumbering on a single, fixed hoard, Tolkien creates a character who's greed is in fact bounded.

 

[WanderingWind]

Ah, but that goes back to one of my points: he in fact, does not acquire more. His supply of gold is now fixed. He does, indeed, have a amount of gold at which he is satisfied and happy. He does not leave Erebor and instead slumbers on a finite hoard of gold. If it is literary allegory, then his greed is not unbounded and in fact, knows an end.



I like this, but still, see my point above. By slumbering on a single, fixed hoard, Tolkien creates a character who's greed is in fact bounded.

You are incorrect in your assumption. You don't think a big ass dragon spent decades scooping up tiny coins with his big ass claws and moving them up to the throne room, do you? The evil critters in Middle-Earth continue to pay him tribute. Some of them doubled as midnight snacks.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Ah, but that goes back to one of my points: he in fact, does not acquire more. His supply of gold is now fixed. He does, indeed, have a amount of gold at which he is satisfied and happy. He does not leave Erebor and instead slumbers on a finite hoard of gold. If it is literary allegory, then his greed is not unbounded and in fact, knows an end.



I like this, but still, see my point above. By slumbering on a single, fixed hoard, Tolkien creates a character who's greed is in fact bounded.

So he's a hoarder then. Solved, once again.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Of course, the whole thing is fiction, but what I failed to grasp is the motivation of the character. It seems that there is no reasonable motivation for him to want all of that gold.

Even if it were for a soft cushy mattress of gold, why not just bargain with the Dwarves and say "Hey look, provide me with enough gold to sleep on and I'll protect your city in return". It would not have even made a dent in their gold supply and Smaug could slumber in peace.

Because again, that's the kind of thing a nice dragon would do. Smaug isn't a nice dragon.

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

For Dragon' Rights..........

 

[UncleSporky]

 

[El Daniel]

going to derail the thread.....anyone else love the MOUNTS in the hobbit? godamn...

Elf King with his deer with HUGE antlers that rekt the orcs....

Dwarf King with little metal-armored boar that just YOLO'd through the orcs....

and the dwarves with their rams that climbed up the mountain (there was that one scene where the 4 dwarves with their rams were running up the mountain that could bypass the road by climbing on the rocks.... gave me nerd shivers LOL)

What happened to this little guy?

 

[neorej]

Because of trickle down economics. Silly dwarves want to decimate jobs.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

He's an asshole, and who doesn't want gold? What's more assholish than teasing everyone with his huge gold pile. You telling me you've never seen a kid boast his toys were better than anyone else's?

 

[robotrock]

Spoiler

why didn't they fly to mordor

 

[UncleSporky]

Spoiler

why didn't they fly to mordor

Spoiler

the hobbits don't meet the prerequisites to become sorcerer or wizard, and even if they had I'm not sure they earned enough xp to get to 5th/6th level required for 3rd level wiz/sorc spells

 

[nrvalleytime]

Ah, but that goes back to one of my points: he in fact, does not acquire more. His supply of gold is now fixed. He does, indeed, have a amount of gold at which he is satisfied and happy. He does not leave Erebor and instead slumbers on a finite hoard of gold. If it is literary allegory, then his greed is not unbounded and in fact, knows an end.



I like this, but still, see my point above. By slumbering on a single, fixed hoard, Tolkien creates a character who's greed is in fact bounded.

Seriously? Man. The Dragon has captured what is literally Middle Earth's largest and fiction's second-largest treasure hoard. There is nothing left for him to acquire.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2013/07/31/the-2013-forbes-fictional-15/

Smaug is true to the nature of dragons. There's no bounds to his greed; he simply is resting. Given enough time, he would seek out the next hoard of wealth to add to his own if such a treasure existed.

Spoiler

why didn't they fly to mordor

Spoiler

Wrong movie, and Eagles only help when they want to.

Inane question about The Hobbit from obstinate OP. Why do dragon's like gold?

Bahahaha

 

[Kinyou]

I read the Wiki page on Smaug and it had this bit:

Centuries spent sleeping atop his gold hoard caused gold and gemstones to become embedded in the flesh of Smaug's belly​

.

Gaf, I have gold and gemstones embedded in the flesh of my belly, but I don't want to go to a doctor. Any advice?

 

[ratcliffja]

He has a huge ego and wants to remain a legend. He has the treasure that the world wants but can't have. He loves the jealousy and fear. He's essentially a metaphor for greedy rich people who flaunt their wealth.

 

[Alx]

I suppose it was heavily inspired by the Nibelungen, along with the magic ring "to rule them all". In that story the guy who stole the gold and the ring turned into a dragon to protect his treasure. Tolkien only kept the "dragons like gold" part.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Loving the title change.