Inane question about The Hobbit from obstinate OP. Why do dragons like gold?

Status
Not open for further replies.
CharlieDigital said:
I just watched DoS last night with my wife and while I have not read the book, I think my question is still valid: why does Smaug need/want a giant pile of gold?

Silly dragon, you don't need gold.
Click to expand...

Nah, it's not really valid. You're questioning why a dragon that speaks and is highly intelligent would want to hoard something as powerful as gold, and you're basing this off watching the movie.

Smaug was greedy because he understood how powerful this gold was. Not necessarily to him, but to the dwarves of middle earth.
 
lmao this is like a nerd stand-up routine:

"And what's the deal with this dragon and gold? I mean, it's not as if he needs to buy food am I right??"

*canned applause*
 
One fantasy author who wrote about dragons justified the hoarding by stating that dragons absorb certain nutrients through their skin from the gold. It was a physical requirement for health. I thought that was pretty amusing.
 
The OP's issue doesn't bother me because it would be within Tolkein lore for something like Dragons are instinctively attracted to gold.

What bothers me is why do the other races use it as currency when it's so effing plentiful they can build multiple solid gold 100ft statues.
 
Jackpot said:
The OP's issue doesn't bother me because it would be within Tolkein lore for something like Dragons are instinctively attracted to gold.

What bothers me is why do the other races use it as currency when it's so effing plentiful they can build multiple solid gold 100ft statues.
Click to expand...

Because that's actually ideal for currency? Commodities that are valuable in themselves are actually not that great as currency because people will just end up using them for their purpose and thus removing them from the economy.

I mean, our currency is made of paper.
 
Folk tales, you mean, not Tolkien. Tolkien took his queues from folk tales and those stories were the ones who decided dragons liked gold.
 
lol @ title change.

I get that it's fantasy and we're talking about talking dragons and orcs and elves and such, but the motivations of the characters is a separate thread from the fictional fantasy aspects of the story in my mind.
 
They love the intrinsic value of gold, as opposed to the fiat money of the ElrondBucks.

Today, Smaug would be into Bitcoin hoarding.
 
CharlieDigital said:
lol @ title change.

I get that it's fantasy and we're talking about talking dragons and orcs and elves and such, but the motivations of the characters is a separate thread from the fictional fantasy aspects of the story in my mind.
Click to expand...

I mean, it's confusing to say that greed is not a sufficient answer, though, because in real life people really do accumulate wealth they don't intend to use.

But forget that. Don't think of dragons as hugely powerful humans. Think of them as superintelligent dangerous birds.

Smaug wants the gold to build a nest. He gets enough gold to build a nest, then he builds a nest, then he sleeps in his nest. He gets mad when people fuck with his nest. But once it's a sufficient nest for his purposes, he doesn't need more.
 
Smaug loves gold because he read on DragonGAF that it bring the ladies .... so he sleeps in it to wait for his true love to arrive seeking the gold and then when he finaly finds the rare dragon lady (also voiced by cumberbatch) they have sweet gold dragon sex
 
...and come to think of it, what's up with Sauron's ring? Why have all that power put into a little ring that goes on a finger? Why not store it inside something that's more protected?
 
I think it makes sense that the dragons (in Tolkien's case as the embodiment of greed) want whatever the other intelligent races crave for the most. If rocks were more valuable than gold to them, they'd be sleeping on piles of rocks
 
Gold, and only gold has the required combination of density, malleability, thermal capacitance, and electrical conductivity in order to make the finest feeling, prostate-pleasing anal beads for dragons in all of Middle Earth.
 
Delta Assault said:
...and come to think of it, what's up with Sauron's ring? Why have all that power put into a little ring that goes on a finger? Why not store it inside something that's more protected?
Click to expand...

The ring was always on Sauron's person. Things didn't get more protected than that in Middle-earth in those days. Nobody had the guts to go 1v1 against a 7-8 foot tall dude clad in black armour. Except Gil-Galad and Elendil. But they died. Isildur really just walked up to a beat up Sauron and cut the ring off his finger (not like in the movies).
 
Delta Assault said:
...and come to think of it, what's up with Sauron's ring? Why have all that power put into a little ring that goes on a finger? Why not store it inside something that's more protected?
Click to expand...

The concept of the Rings of Power is borrowed from Norse mythology, specifically the Volsunga Saga's Ring of the Niebelund.

Magic rings are all over mythology and folklore in general. It really has very little to do with its practicality.
 
Delta Assault said:
...and come to think of it, what's up with Sauron's ring? Why have all that power put into a little ring that goes on a finger? Why not store it inside something that's more protected?
Click to expand...

Because he's arrogant as hell. The rings were more of an artifact of convenience. He befriended smiths who specialized in them (jewelry, not rings of power). If there had been a shoemaker at that point that Sauron thought held the key to the downfall of anybody, the Sandal of Authority could have been a real thing. The rings worked as a device because, frankly, the Elves up to that point just could not resist shiny things. Evey major war up to that point was over some stupid trinket of theirs.
 
Windam said:
The ring was always on Sauron's person. Things didn't get more protected than that in Middle-earth in those days. Nobody had the guts to go 1v1 against a 7-8 foot tall dude clad in black armour. Except Gil-Galad and Elendil. But they died. Isildur really just walked up to a beat up Sauron and cut the ring off his finger (not like in the movies).
Click to expand...

Yeah but why put it on the ring in the first place, and not have the power be an intrinsic part of Sauron, just like, you know, everybody else.

My guess is that the ring shape gave it some kind of resonance with the other 19 rings.
 
WanderingWind said:
Because he's arrogant as hell. The rings were more of an artifact of convenience. He befriended smiths who specialized in them. If there had been a shoemaker at that point that Sauron thought held the key to the downfall of anybody, the Sandal of Authority could have been a real thing. The rings worked as a device because, frankly, the Elves up to that point just could not resist shiny things. Evey major war up to that point was over some stupid trinket of theirs.
Click to expand...

Sauron actually instructed the Elves of Eregion with the making of 16 of the Rings of Power as he intended on using the rings to submit the Elves to his will. They were later given to Dwarves (who resisted Sauron's influence, and instead amassed great fortunes of gold and treasure) and Men, who fell into darkness.

ElFly said:
Yeah but why put it on the ring in the first place, and not have the power be an intrinsic part of Sauron, just like, you know, everybody else.

My guess is that the ring shape gave it some kind of resonance with the other 19 rings.
Click to expand...

The power in the ring was originally intrinsic to Sauron. The ring acted as a sort of amplifier for his power in that those wearing the other rings would be bent to his will.
 
Windam said:
Sauron actually instructed the Elves of Eregion with the making of 16 of the Rings of Power as he intended on using the rings to submit the Elves to his will. They were later given to Dwarves (who resisted Sauron's influence, and instead amassed great fortunes of gold and treasure) and Men, who fell into darkness.
Click to expand...

...yes, that's what I said. Just with less LotR movie prologue wordage. :p
 
Windam said:
Nuh-uh! You said the Elven smiths already specialized in the making of rings. It was Sauron who gave them that knowledge.

Ah, stealth edit. Sneaky. :P
Click to expand...

Muhahahaha

Yeah, I edited after I realized how that could be took. Pretty impressive catching that in the 30 seconds it too me to reedit. lol
 
Obligatory Goldmember image since that was the one reference missing.

goldmember-copy.jpg
 
Jackpot said:
The OP's issue doesn't bother me because it would be within Tolkein lore for something like Dragons are instinctively attracted to gold.

What bothers me is why do the other races use it as currency when it's so effing plentiful they can build multiple solid gold 100ft statues.
Click to expand...


We use paper as currency? Easily replaced and bountiful currency is the best currecy. Unless you like speculative assets for currency like bitcoin ...

Also ... the best answer is "because he can". That's ultimately his motives. Smaug is a dick and can do whatever dick thing he wants.
 
Morgoth/Melkor bred them and created them to be that way

There's some speculation here (with some quotes from Tolkien letters) that they basically feed off the evil energy in gold


Dragons have an affinity for gold. They like to gather it up in a huge mound and lay upon it. Tolkien’s reasoning may be that they are thus nourished by the Morgoth-element which is present in gold, indeed which is stronger in gold than in other substances (such as silver and water). This could explain how dragons are able to go for long periods of time without actually eating anything. The gold sustains them, and is thus as important to them as food would be to a starving man on a desert island. It could also explain why the dragons experienced a period of decline. Their power would be diminished without Morgoth to control them, and until they could accumulate new hoards they would be very weak.
Click to expand...
 
Some of us collect video games. Some of us collect comics. Some of us collect molds of celebrity genitalia. Smaug collects gold.
 
CharlieDigital said:
Sorry man; that doesn't compute to me.

Greed makes sense as a motivation if he had use for the gold. For example, he wanted to build the most righteous dragon cave or if he wanted to you know, extract value in exchange for the gold.

What would he exchange gold for and with whom would he exchange it? He has no practical use for it so it can't be called greed.



Greed doesn't make sense if he doesn't intend to use the gold for anything except to sleep on it. And even then, it doesn't make sense to kill the Dwarves instead of enslaving them because once you kill them, you have a fixed supply of gold. Enslave the Dwarves and Smaug has an infinite supply of gold to sleep on. Not that he needs it because all he needs is 200m^2 and he should be all set.
Click to expand...

No different than Scrooge McDuck.
And greed does not imply having a need or use for something. Quite the contrary actually.
 
I dunno op, why don't you go find a dragon and ask him? this smaug sure is crazy. does he think he's living in some sort of weird fantasy land?

But really, it doesn't fucking matter that Smaug can't go to DQ and get a yummy oreo Blizzard with all his gold. Other people owned it. He stole it. Other people want it. He wants to keep it.
 
Why does OP think that a dragon would be a venture capitalist?


Hes the embodiment of overpowering greed. Thats the point.
 
thefro said:
Morgoth/Melkor bred them and created them to be that way

There's some speculation here (with some quotes from Tolkien letters) that they basically feed off the evil energy in gold

Dragons have an affinity for gold. They like to gather it up in a huge mound and lay upon it. Tolkien’s reasoning may be that they are thus nourished by the Morgoth-element which is present in gold, indeed which is stronger in gold than in other substances (such as silver and water). This could explain how dragons are able to go for long periods of time without actually eating anything. The gold sustains them, and is thus as important to them as food would be to a starving man on a desert island. It could also explain why the dragons experienced a period of decline. Their power would be diminished without Morgoth to control them, and until they could accumulate new hoards they would be very weak.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I skimmed through that link and I really like that line of thinking.

Author actually goes into quite a bit of thought on the subject, even discussing how the dragons reproduced and maybe having a sufficient hoard of gold was necessary for dragons to mate (lol).

This makes much more sense like a beaver building up a nest and a dam out of fallen trees.

Makes much more sense as a motivation than "greed"; it is a survival instinct for them as gold is what gives them power.

Zyae said:
Why does OP think that a dragon would be a venture capitalist?

Hes the embodiment of overpowering greed. Thats the point.
Click to expand...

JDSN said:
Its fiction.
Click to expand...

zeemumu said:
Gold hoarding is a just a,dragon trope.
Click to expand...

Megalosaro said:
Tolkien was justntrying to invoke fairy tale tropes. It is as simple as that.
Click to expand...

Apparently, it's not without reason.
 
CharlieDigital said:
I skimmed through that link and I really like that line of thinking.

Author actually goes into quite a bit of thought on the subject, even discussing how the dragons reproduced and maybe having a sufficient hoard of gold was necessary for dragons to mate (lol).

This makes much more sense like a beaver building up a nest and a dam out of fallen trees.







Apparently, it's not without reason.
Click to expand...



That letter was 17 years after he wrote the Hobbit. His function in the book is an embodiment of greed. You are looking into it way too hard.


Nevermind the fact that the whole article is speculation and even the direct lines from Tolkien are riddled with "maybes"
 
While we're talking about dragons and pointless greed, does anybody know of a good story with dragons as technology hoarders? I feel like someone has to have written something like that given how obsessed today's society is with having the most advanced tech regardless of whether they actually need it, but I can't seem to find anything.
 
Zyae said:
That letter was 17 years after he wrote the Hobbit. His function in the book is an embodiment of greed. You are looking into it way too hard.

Nevermind the fact that the whole article is speculation and even the direct lines from Tolkien are riddled with "maybes"
Click to expand...

Be that as it may, this pretty much addresses it directly:

Tolkien said:
Sauron’s power was not (for example) in gold as such, but in a particular form or shape made of a particular portion of total gold. Morgoth’s power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such ‘magic’ and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)
Click to expand...

So the dragons required the "Morgoth-element" in the gold as a "prerequisite" for their magical powers and maybe their very existence.
 
CharlieDigital said:
Take it a step back.

Real life people want wealth because money can be exchanged for goods and services. The analog to gold would be money and of course, the greedy want money because it can be used to acquire goods, build a mansion, buy luxurious foods; the motivation is clear.

Smaug...he's just sleeping on it.



I jest, but it's a literary question: what is this character's motivation?



That's where it breaks down because if he keeps the Dwarves alive or exchanges his protection for gold, he could have an infinite supply of gold instead of a fixed supply.
Click to expand...

Smaug is a creature of Morgorth who loathes every being that comes from Iluvatar or, in the case of the dwarves, the Valar. And gold has some Morgorth thing inside it that dragons need, iirc.
Also, you don't seem to understand greed at all. Greed, by definition, explicitly refers to a person who accumulates beyond their needs and who is reluctant to expend its accumulated goods.
 
Fenderputty said:
We use paper as currency? Easily replaced and bountiful currency is the best currecy. Unless you like speculative assets for currency like bitcoin ...
Click to expand...

But everyone acts like it has intrinsic value. If you find gold you can turn it into money, unlike with blank paper.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Can we do like a Reverse Gold?
25
677
Days like these... replied
why do cats talk like people?
24
2K
Badlucktroll replied
This looks like a new thing for BBC to report about
16
545
Donald mac Ronald replied
How often do you think about dying?
Cringe  2
57
810
ForAcademicPurposes replied
a question about Stephen King I don't know where to ask
30
793
SamuraiEdge replied
Top Bottom