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[Rubikant]

I don't think I realized before that the red outline was targeting. I'd love if some other people here spoke into the matter, but I don't like outline effects in 3D games. It's really inelegant to me, even when it appears in a AAA game like Assassin's Creed:

I prefer a traditional target indicator like the pointer arrows Zelda games invented and everyone else copied.



Ha, then I can't wait to show off what I was working on last night! >

I know this is completely irrelevant to what you were talking about, or even this thread in general, but WOW, I just have to say, thanks for reminding me of one of the reasons why I never play AC games. Watch the guy on the right during that gif, and tell me his AI makes any sense to you at all. I mean, if he were, say, recoiling in surprise and horror or something, but no, he's just standing there, twirling his knife, waiting patiently for you to be done watching the guy you just stabbed bleed out.

 

[Five]

I know this is completely irrelevant to what you were talking about, or even this thread in general, but WOW, I just have to say, thanks for reminding me of one of the reasons why I never play AC games. Watch the guy on the right during that gif, and tell me his AI makes any sense to you at all. I mean, if he were, say, recoiling in surprise and horror or something, but no, he's just standing there, twirling his knife, waiting patiently for you to be done watching the guy you just stabbed bleed out.

Yeah, the "wait-in-line" AI in these games is much decried.

 

[Lord_Balkan]

I feel like games being gamey is probably a good thing, but I suppose that's an immense unresolvable philosophical argument kind of like the Miyamoto policy on gameplay vs. story.

Personally I suppose it comes down to aesthetics and frustration for me. If it looks ugly, that's probably bad. But if all other alternatives are frustrating to play, then I'll take ugly.

I think theres a balance to it. It certainly isn't black and white. Its more so, you need to provide the perception that it isn't as gamey as it actually is. I am thinking games like Thief, Deus Ex, even Legend of Zelda do it well. I think the best games handle this balance the best.

 

[donut]

Hello there, it's been a while.
Just wanted to post some stuff from my little 3D platformer, Rova's Adventure. You might have seen my devlog on tigsource.

Also here's a short video with bad quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyMHC7AmfWc

 

[bkw]

How does one go about doing a "palette swap" with non-pixel art sprites? I need four different colour sets per character in my game, so I can predefine the colour sets if needed (versus dynamically recolouring to any colour in-game, though I guess that flexibility is nice.) Also, only one colour set per character will be used at any time within the game (except the colour selection screen I suppose). I'm exporting my art from Flash.

I could recolour within Flash and export them separately, but that means managing essentially 4x the animation/art assets, and possibly memory issues? The advantage would be total control on the artist side.

I could export the pieces that need to be recoloured as separate layers, then tint them in-game. Some more work managing layers within Flash and some work in-game to manage and draw all those layers correctly. Also sometimes I find tinting colours aren't that nice, especially if shadows/shading is involved.

Are there other ways? Some shader way? (I've never worked with shader before...)

 

[electroflame]

How does one go about doing a "palette swap" with non-pixel art sprites? I need four different colour sets per character in my game, so I can predefine the colour sets if needed (versus dynamically recolouring to any colour in-game, though I guess that flexibility is nice.) Also, only one colour set per character will be used at any time within the game (except the colour selection screen I suppose). I'm exporting my art from Flash.

I could recolour within Flash and export them separately, but that means managing essentially 4x the animation/art assets, and possibly memory issues? The advantage would be total control on the artist side.

I could export the pieces that need to be recoloured as separate layers, then tint them in-game. Some more work managing layers within Flash and some work in-game to manage and draw all those layers correctly. Also sometimes I find tinting colours aren't that nice, especially if shadows/shading is involved.

Are there other ways? Some shader way? (I've never worked with shader before...)

Typically, in the case you're describing, you would have a shader that takes a color in (say, red) and a color that it would output (say, blue). The shader would take in the color you give it, find colors that are close to the input color, and change them to the output color.

The problem with this approach is that it often times looks very, very ugly. You can fix this by loading in some kind of mask texture that can be used to clean up the colors you change (so they fade between other colors in the image properly).

It's not super-easy, but it looks better than tinting or straight color swapping.

What engine are you using, by the way?

 

[bkw]

Typically, in the case you're describing, you would have a shader that takes a color in (say, red) and a color that it would output (say, blue). The shader would take in the color you give it, find colors that are close to the input color, and change them to the output color.

The problem with this approach is that it often times looks very, very ugly. You can fix this by loading in some kind of mask texture that can be used to clean up the colors you change (so they fade between other colors in the image properly).

It's not super-easy, but it looks better than tinting or straight color swapping.

What engine are you using, by the way?

Thanks for replying! I'm using Unity.

How do I get around the case where my character has red eyes and a red shirt, and I want to make the shirt blue? Is this where the mask texture comes in? So I would need a mask for every frame of the sprite animation? Or... maybe reserve some colours just for swapping? So.. maybe some bright magenta that will never be used normally, but always replaced. (e.g. Base texture has a magenta shirt.)

 

[electroflame]

Thanks for replying! I'm using Unity.

How do I get around the case where my character has red eyes and a red shirt, and I want to make the shirt blue? Is this where the mask texture comes in? So I would need a mask for every frame of the sprite animation? Or... maybe reserve some colours just for swapping? So.. maybe some bright magenta that will never be used normally, but always replaced. (e.g. Base texture has a magenta shirt.)

You're in luck, I just so happened to have seen this early today: Colorify.

I have no idea how well it works, but it seems right up your alley. It's pretty cheap at $10, too, and it should handle the selective recoloring that you're talking about.

 

[bkw]

You're in luck, I just so happened to have seen this early today: Colorify.

I have no idea how well it works, but it seems right up your alley. It's pretty cheap at $10, too, and it should handle the selective recoloring that you're talking about.

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Btw, any speculation as to how Dragon's Crown did their colour sets? That's got to be a completely different set of textures right? Or texture, masking, shader trickery?
http://i.imgur.com/GfriWIQ.jpg

 

[electroflame]

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Btw, any speculation as to how Dragon's Crown did their colour sets? That's got to be a completely different set of textures right? Or texture, masking, shader trickery?
http://i.imgur.com/GfriWIQ.jpg

That could probably be done with a shader, I think (albeit, probably a fairly sophisticated one). Each color set is changing very specific areas, so I'd imagine that it's some kind of mask + color palette type of deal, but I could be wrong.

 

[friken]

Long day getting planet landing more polished. I'm pretty happy with how it is feeling w the drop ship movement, gravity, thrust, atmosphere, etc. Too many tweaks to list. I forgot to hookup the screen shaking when going fast enough through atmosphere for the heatfx. I had it disable for debugging something. oh well, not going to reshoot the vid.. it's late

Orbit to surface:

Surface to orbit:

 

[Five]

Long day getting planet landing more polished. I'm pretty happy with how it is feeling w the drop ship movement, gravity, thrust, atmosphere, etc. Too many tweaks to list. I forgot to hookup the screen shaking when going fast enough through atmosphere for the heatfx. I had it disable for debugging something. oh well, not going to reshoot the vid.. it's late

Those look really, really good. Wow! Nicely done.

 

[friken]

Those look really, really good. Wow! Nicely done.

thanks!

Lots to do still but pretty happy so far. My not so short to-do list for planet-side:

weather/lightning
day/night
fire/lava
earthquakes
critters
scanning for minerals / life / objects of interest

 

[Jobbs]

does this door read well enough as traversable NOW?

http://www.gfycat.com/SpectacularFlatAmurstarfish

all that's left after this is to put a glowing neon arrow.

 

[Ashodin]

does this door read well enough as traversable NOW?

http://www.gfycat.com/SpectacularFlatAmurstarfish

all that's left after this is to put a glowing neon arrow.

at the very least, I would jump at it because it's shiny.

 

[Jobbs]

at the very least, I would jump at it because it's shiny.

good man.

 

[Angryhead]

Simple (but satisfying) gibs/blood. I swear I'm not a psychopath!

 

[Magypsy]

Oh hey Peter, I remember meeting you at CCEU14 earlier this year and I think I might've been one of the volunteers in charge of your table for the first day, but can't remember

Will you guys go there next year as well? We'll definitely be there with Ancestory; last time was pretty awesome and we'll be getting some actual funding this time.

Oh, and the Flock seems to have been improved massively since the last time I saw, awesome job! Feel free to send me a key as well (though I can't promise I have much time to test it right now)

So, our Sound Guy whipped a new prototype as well, which one do you think is better?

Hey _machine! I Think I remember you because the first day I wasn't hungover yet. You were the friendly guy right?

I'm gonna try and get The Flock entered again because Casual Connect was a lot of fun. Otherwise I'll maybe buy a ticket but I'll have to see about that, the only thing that really interests me there is the Indie Prize Showcase.

I definitely like the second one more. It works better as an icon . I'll send you some keys!

–––

If anyone wants some alpha keys for The Flock let me know! Coming weekend is the last weekend it will be publicly playable.

 

[desu]

does this door read well enough as traversable NOW?

http://www.gfycat.com/SpectacularFlatAmurstarfish

all that's left after this is to put a glowing neon arrow.

Hm, I was in the camp that thinks no indicator was needed for this (and I didn't need one). I thought it's quite an awesome idea to have the boss right there and giving you a way to fight him in "hard" mode. Or well chicken out like I did and use that big other door in the room!

Giving the hint away before you even might have encountered the boss is a little sad (to me). Would be cool if the hint shows only after you encountered the boss, or even better after you died a few times (3-5 times with the option to turn this type of hint off completely ?).

I though the hint for the breakable wall before that was just perfect, gave me a huge smile as it wasn't too apparent yet noticable (especially I guess if you haven't played Metroid or something similiar before).

 

[Jacksinthe]

That could probably be done with a shader, I think (albeit, probably a fairly sophisticated one). Each color set is changing very specific areas, so I'd imagine that it's some kind of mask + color palette type of deal, but I could be wrong.

I'm also going to assume mask. Without knowing how many segments represent the whole it would be hard to pinpoint. But shader+mask can do the trick as you suggest.

 

[2+2=5]

Hey guys sorry to bother you but i need your help, for a reason i can't understand i feel that the face/head has something wrong, can you help me pointing why?
While we are at it are colors contrasted enough(you always say i need more color contrast)?
Skin colors are placeholders but the rest are more or less what i want.

 

[kiguel182]

Does anybody here know of any good tutorials about pixel art/drawing in general for beginners?

I really need to improve my art skills but I have next to no bases and I have no idea where to start.

 

[Mystic River]

Long day getting planet landing more polished. I'm pretty happy with how it is feeling w the drop ship movement, gravity, thrust, atmosphere, etc. Too many tweaks to list. I forgot to hookup the screen shaking when going fast enough through atmosphere for the heatfx. I had it disable for debugging something. oh well, not going to reshoot the vid.. it's late

Orbit to surface:

Surface to orbit:

love it! keep it coming!

 

[_machine]

Almost there...

Yesterday was crazy though; I don't think I've ever sent as many mails in a month as I did yesterday. Luckily got a few responses as well and our latest update on IndieDB got decent coverage so things are looking good at the moment for tomorrow.

 

[Comfort Jones]

does this door read well enough as traversable NOW?

http://www.gfycat.com/SpectacularFlatAmurstarfish

all that's left after this is to put a glowing neon arrow.

The problem is pretty much every entrance/exit the player encounters before this is just a basic open hole. Even in that gif when he goes through it he kinda just goes into the wall because the angle it's drawn at doesn't really show a hole. I'm not sure how you could really fix that besides cheating a bit with the angle.

Edit-Or maybe you could have a bit more torn away on the foreground side, so it clearly shows that it's a tube thing. Idunno, art is hard.

 

[_machine]

does this door read well enough as traversable NOW?

http://www.gfycat.com/SpectacularFlatAmurstarfish

all that's left after this is to put a glowing neon arrow.

Definitely enticing, though I can't say that it would strike as a door immediately, especially for non-metroid veterans, but then again not sure if it really needs to anyway.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Definitely enticing, though I can't say that it would strike as a door immediately, especially for non-metroid veterans,

I am a Metroid veteran though. Metroid marks all of its entrances very clearly and consistently unless there's some odd example I'm seriously blanking on.

 

[Pehesse]

does this door read well enough as traversable NOW?

http://www.gfycat.com/SpectacularFlatAmurstarfish

all that's left after this is to put a glowing neon arrow.

I think one of the issues for me is the continuity with the bottom vertical wall. As I understand it, it's not so much a "door" as it is the exit end of a pipe, but with the wall continuing directly vertical from it, I may read it as part of the background (I'm a Metroid veteran, if that amounts to anything).

What I'd do would be to move the bottom part of the wall, either forward (to the left) a bit to create a plane to land on if you wish to convey the sense that it's a door, or back (to the right) a bit, it you wish to show a protruding tunnel from the wall. Either way would funnel me in without the need for the glowing orbs. Just my two cents though !

Hey guys sorry to bother you but i need your help, for a reason i can't understand i feel that the face/head has something wrong, can you help me pointing why?
While we are at it are colors contrasted enough(you always say i need more color contrast)?
Skin colors are placeholders but the rest are more or less what i want.

I'm not really sure why you feel something's wrong with the face as it is, but as a general rule of thumb, it never hurts to flip your image horizontally/vertically to see your character from different angles - if there's something wrong proportion/angle wise, it'll jump out at you :-D
For the colors, I'd color the skin shading with a touch more red, but again, that's just me :-D

 

[_machine]

I am a Metroid veteran though. Metroid marks all of its entrances very clearly and consistently unless there's some odd example I'm seriously blanking on.

Yeah true, I just tend to view everything out of ordinary as something that should be shot at just to see if something happens so I don't miss on any secret areas. But that's the problem, if it's something that everyone should clearly proceed through then it might not be clear enough.

 

[desu]

I think one of the issues for me is the continuity with the bottom vertical wall. As I understand it, it's not so much a "door" as it is the exit end of a pipe, but with the wall continuing directly vertical from it, I may read it as part of the background (I'm a Metroid veteran, if that amounts to anything).

What I'd do would be to move the bottom part of the wall, either forward (to the left) a bit to create a plane to land on if you wish to convey the sense that it's a door, or back (to the right) a bit, it you wish to show a protruding tunnel from the wall. Either way would funnel me in without the need for the glowing orbs. Just my two cents though !

I think this is a very good explanation of why someone might not see it as possible exit, I also prefer this solution to the glowing hint.

 

[_machine]

Hey guys sorry to bother you but i need your help, for a reason i can't understand i feel that the face/head has something wrong, can you help me pointing why?
While we are at it are colors contrasted enough(you always say i need more color contrast)?
Skin colors are placeholders but the rest are more or less what i want.

I don't feel there's anything wrong with the face, if anything the I think the hands are a bit too straight for my taste, but other than I think it looks good, color-wise too.

 

[friken]

does this door read well enough as traversable NOW?

http://www.gfycat.com/SpectacularFlatAmurstarfish

all that's left after this is to put a glowing neon arrow.

It does. and for what it's worth, I didn't have a problem finding/using it without the glowy bits.

 

[friken]

Simple (but satisfying) gibs/blood. I swear I'm not a psychopath!

but psychopaths make such fun games

looking really fun. Lots of different guns and upgrades planned? love games w lots of weapons/upgrades

 

[Pehesse]

I think this is a very good explanation of why someone might not see it as possible exit, I also prefer this solution to the glowing hint.

To expand on that: it reminds me of the bit in Metroid Fusion where you have to blow off the cover of a vent, at the beginning of the game. The cover is in the alignement of the wall, but the general lighting is dimmed and there's a glowing light just on top of it, contrasting with everything else up to that point, so you quickly figure out you're supposed to do something - and since you just got the missiles, firing is the natural solution. Here, the lighting is no different from usual, and the door looks pretty blown up already - I'd even read it as impassable because of that.

From what I've seen of streams of the beta (apart that's it's lovingly crafted and looks pretty awesome), this particular door makes me think of another with a similar issue, one of the first (I think?) secret passages where you have to blow off the ceiling. Some players had issues with locating the piece of wall to blow off when it's quite evidently textured differently - but it's also completely aligned with the rest of the ceiling, making it easy to miss if you're not looking at textures, but rather relief in the terrain.

For passages that are meant to be "obvious", I'd always go for funnel relief, with slight increments or decrements to show that there's possibly the beginning of something.
(I believe that would even remove the need to use glowing orbs at all, or at least in those specific spots).
And for passages that are meant to be really secret, then sure, use a perfect alignement, and the player will just have to keep his/her eyes open for variance in texture :-D Actually, that's where I'd use glowing orbs...

 

[2+2=5]

I think one of the issues for me is the continuity with the bottom vertical wall. As I understand it, it's not so much a "door" as it is the exit end of a pipe, but with the wall continuing directly vertical from it, I may read it as part of the background (I'm a Metroid veteran, if that amounts to anything).

What I'd do would be to move the bottom part of the wall, either forward (to the left) a bit to create a plane to land on if you wish to convey the sense that it's a door, or back (to the right) a bit, it you wish to show a protruding tunnel from the wall. Either way would funnel me in without the need for the glowing orbs. Just my two cents though !



I'm not really sure why you feel something's wrong with the face as it is, but as a general rule of thumb, it never hurts to flip your image horizontally/vertically to see your character from different angles - if there's something wrong proportion/angle wise, it'll jump out at you :-D
For the colors, I'd color the skin shading with a touch more red, but again, that's just me :-D

I don't feel there's anything wrong with the face, if anything the I think the hands are a bit too straight for my taste, but other than I think it looks good, color-wise too.

Thanks guys!

 

[Blizzard]

This thread might be of interest to small teams: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=138545635

Along with .NET being open-sourced, a new version of Visual Studio that is free even for business use if you have 5 or fewer developers, and allows extensions. I'm hoping this means stuff like robust profiling can actually be supported now for the free version.

 

[Lufiaddict]

I know this is completely irrelevant to what you were talking about, or even this thread in general, but WOW, I just have to say, thanks for reminding me of one of the reasons why I never play AC games. Watch the guy on the right during that gif, and tell me his AI makes any sense to you at all. I mean, if he were, say, recoiling in surprise and horror or something, but no, he's just standing there, twirling his knife, waiting patiently for you to be done watching the guy you just stabbed bleed out.

Yeah, the "wait-in-line" AI in these games is much decried.

I haven't played any AC games, but if I understand correctly, this "wait-in-line" AI was born in Ocarina of Time. The origin of the idea was explained in an Iwata Ask. It's an interesting read.

Hey guys sorry to bother you but i need your help, for a reason i can't understand i feel that the face/head has something wrong, can you help me pointing why?
While we are at it are colors contrasted enough(you always say i need more color contrast)?
Skin colors are placeholders but the rest are more or less what i want.

I don't feel there's anything wrong with the face, if anything the I think the hands are a bit too straight for my taste, but other than I think it looks good, color-wise too.

That's the impression I get too. Actually, his whole right arm seems a bit too stiff to me.

 

[Blizzard]

I haven't played any AC games, but if I understand correctly, this "wait-in-line" AI was born in Ocarina of Time. The origin of the idea was explained in an Iwata Ask. It's an interesting read.

That makes sense. Otherwise, having a bunch of coordinated enemies swarming the player could just make you lose and would probably not be fun.

For a similar example, imagine if stealth games were completely realistic? It would probably be way more frustrating and less enjoyable than having some guards be a bit hard of hearing so you can actually sneak past.

 

[electroflame]

This thread might be of interest to small teams: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=138545635

Along with .NET being open-sourced, a new version of Visual Studio that is free even for business use if you have 5 or fewer developers, and allows extensions. I'm hoping this means stuff like robust profiling can actually be supported now for the free version.

Sweet, about time.

 

[HellBlazer]

This thread might be of interest to small teams: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=138545635

Along with .NET being open-sourced, a new version of Visual Studio that is free even for business use if you have 5 or fewer developers, and allows extensions. I'm hoping this means stuff like robust profiling can actually be supported now for the free version.

Fantastic news. Good timing too, since I think my VS Pro trial expires soon.

 

[Blizzard]

Just don't get TOO successful, since once you pass $1 million in annual revenue you can't use it. (but if it's $500 for a pro license you can probably afford it at that point)

 

[HellBlazer]

Just don't get TOO successful, since once you pass $1 million in annual revenue you can't use it. (but if it's $500 for a pro license you can probably afford it at that point)

Haha, yeah I don't think I'll have a problem with license costs if I ever get that successful. Did they also lower the price of a Pro license though? I thought it was like $2000 or something.

 

[2+2=5]

That's the impression I get too. Actually, his whole right arm seems a bit too stiff to me.

Thanks for the feedback, it's still a work in progress so there will be changes and refinements.

 

[Five]

I haven't played any AC games, but if I understand correctly, this "wait-in-line" AI was born in Ocarina of Time. The origin of the idea was explained in an Iwata Ask. It's an interesting read.

Interesting. Maybe the AC example feels so much worse because of how much more knowable humans are than keese and stalfos. The Batman Arkham games probably do the same thing too, but I feel like they abstract or disguise it better. When you're a dangerous assassin with your back turned to a guy who just wants to stab you, but he's not, it feels bad.

 

[Ito]

does this door read well enough as traversable NOW?

http://www.gfycat.com/SpectacularFlatAmurstarfish

all that's left after this is to put a glowing neon arrow.

If you don't want to make it that obvious (as in flashing lights pointing the way to follow), just use perspective.

Help our eyes to understand that there's a passageway and not just a bulk of hubris and melted iron. Twist a little bit the perspective so we can see the arch of the door.


If you don't want it to be that noticeable because you want the player to find the boss first, then run away, just make some rocks fall and free the way or something like that.

Just my 2 cent.

 

[cbox]

Jobbs you can always use environmental cues to draw more attention to that portal. Perhaps angle the top of the cave downward to create almost an arrow that points the player in that direction. The pink mist helps in conveying something interesting is here, though often some sort of item of high value could be a way of offering an incentive for someone to jump past that area.

 

[_machine]

Getting close now...but I wanted to thank you guys for all the help and feedback first; these 2 months have been pretty crazy, but I've learned so much and I've finally started posting regularly here after years of lurking and a post here and there. Out of all the communities I post on I have no doubt that GAF's Indie community is the best, rock on guys!

 

[Angryhead]

Almost there...
Yesterday was crazy though; I don't think I've ever sent as many mails in a month as I did yesterday. Luckily got a few responses as well and our latest update on IndieDB got decent coverage so things are looking good at the moment for tomorrow.

Looking good! Spent more than a few loops looking at it.

but psychopaths make such fun games

looking really fun. Lots of different guns and upgrades planned? love games w lots of weapons/upgrades

Thanks!
Got some plans for different weapons (implemented a melee weapon during my lunch break)

Buuut we're trying to not dream too big with it, at least right now. The plan is still to release it as part of 1GAM for November. Guess we'll have to see about crossing that bridge once we get there.

 

[Lufiaddict]

That makes sense. Otherwise, having a bunch of coordinated enemies swarming the player could just make you lose and would probably not be fun.

For a similar example, imagine if stealth games were completely realistic? It would probably be way more frustrating and less enjoyable than having some guards be a bit hard of hearing so you can actually sneak past.

I agree that unrealistic behaviors are necessary. Yet, I think they were less jarring when characters were just blobs of pixels or blocky piles of polygons. Now that they are animated through motion capture, voiced by professional actors, made of a gazillion polygons (and that you could see every pore of their skin if you zoomed enough), unnatural behavior can really stick out.

Interesting. Maybe the AC example feels so much worse because of how much more knowable humans are than keese and stalfos. The Batman Arkham games probably do the same thing too, but I feel like they abstract or disguise it better. When you're a dangerous assassin with your back turned to a guy who just wants to stab you, but he's not, it feels bad.

Another factor might be the camera. Here's Link against Stalfos in Ocarina of times. When Z-Targeting is used, the camera follows the action closely, it's very dynamic, so you're less likely to pay attention to the other Stalfos. Moreover, it seems to me that the other Stalfos actually tries to get out of view.

Whereas in the AC gif posted above, the camera stays farther from the action, so it's more easy to be distracted by the other enemies (but I'll say it again, I have never played an AC game, so I'm only judging the gif).

Edit: watching the video I linked makes me want to replay OoT.

 

[Rubikant]

Long day getting planet landing more polished. I'm pretty happy with how it is feeling w the drop ship movement, gravity, thrust, atmosphere, etc. Too many tweaks to list. I forgot to hookup the screen shaking when going fast enough through atmosphere for the heatfx. I had it disable for debugging something. oh well, not going to reshoot the vid.. it's late

Orbit to surface:

Surface to orbit:

Okay, okay, you win, I'm ready to preorder your game now. How do I throw my money at you?