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[Leonidas]

Exclusive: Intel Exec Promises Arrow Lake Fixes For Major Performance Gains

Intel's Robert Hallock promised big performance gains are coming for Core Ultra 200 CPUs.

hothardware.com

Mr. Hallock noted fixes will be a combination of firmware updates and software patches, rolled out both through Windows Update as well as the usual cadre of motherboard vendor BIOS updates and system partners. He promised a "significant" uplift in games, but also potentially in general compute, which might give Intel even more wins over the potent Ryzen 9 9950X at the high end. We'll see, hopefully at by end of the month or shortly after, according to Robert, so stay tuned.

The fix is coming in a matter of weeks.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[analog_future]

 

[OverHeat]

Exclusive: Intel Exec Promises Arrow Lake Fixes For Major Performance Gains

Intel's Robert Hallock promised big performance gains are coming for Core Ultra 200 CPUs.

hothardware.com

The fix is coming in a matter of weeks.

Keep dreaming…. Seriously you never give up don’t you

 

[Brigandier]

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

The fix is coming in a matter of weeks.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

Intel is on life support.

 

[poppabk]

"How much of a performance boost? Hallock didn't say, and he also didn't elaborate on what those updates would be exactly, just that they were coming in a matter of weeks."
Imagine having to pin your hopes on this vagueness.

 

[Leonidas]

"How much of a performance boost? Hallock didn't say, and he also didn't elaborate on what those updates would be exactly, just that they were coming in a matter of weeks."
Imagine having to pin your hopes on this vagueness.

Imagine waiting a few weeks to see how things turn out.

Keep dreaming…. Seriously you never give up don’t you

My only hope is that Arrow Lake roughly matches Raptor Lake in gaming.

It needs to improve by 5-9% on average for me to be happy. I don't think that is too wishful, something is clearly wrong with some games hugely underperforming...

Arrow Lake generally beats Zen5 in non-gaming performance, even before the fix. And Arrow Lake has much lower idle power draw, very important to me.

9800X3D is off the table for me for its abysmal MT perf and abysmal MT perf/$. I'd rather pick up one of the 9950X's which have been cut by over 20% and collecting dust at my local retailer... and I'd only do that if AMD can fix the idle power draw (something the 9800X3D suffers from too, constantly chugging down an extra 35% wattage when doing simple things like web browsing or office work or even sitting idle on the desktop doing nothing).

 

[CLW]

 

[marquimvfs]

Imagine waiting a few weeks to see how things turn out.

If you absolutely prefer to go Intel, sure. Not absurd about that.

My only hope is that Arrow Lake roughly matches Raptor Lake in gaming.

It might be after some fixes, roughly, like you said. I do believe that it will be better, just not a constant win across every title, and not on theirs first attempt. I think those processors will take some time to show their final form, more than two weeks, at least.

It needs to improve by 5-9% on average for me to be happy. I don't think that is too wishful, something is clearly wrong with some games

Yeah, if you aren't aiming for absolute top gaming performance, but a great overall machine, Intel is now, at least, more efficient than the last gen.
It might become a good CPU after some fixes, and at the right price, of course. It's also worth considering that the new gen probably won't use the same platform. So, if some are really invested on Intel, it might be best just to skip this gen altogether, unless efficiency is a must.

 

[IFireflyl]

I will believe it when I see it. And intermittent gains across random titles isn't going to be good enough for me.

 

[Leonidas]

If you absolutely prefer to go Intel, sure. Not absurd about that.

MT perf/$ and web browsing/office/idle power matters a lot to me. AMD would have to improve in these areas for me to consider them again.

Until that is fixed I can only consider Intel CPUs.

It might be after some fixes, roughly, like you said. I do believe that it will be better, just not a constant win across every title, and not on theirs first attempt. I think those processors will take some time to show their final form, more than two weeks, at least.

I'm just glad Intel takes full responsibility for the issue and isn't lying to me.

It will be very disappointing if they can't get at least 5% when the updates drop, that's what it'd take to get rough parity, that's the expectation they set initially.

Yeah, if you aren't aiming for absolute top gaming performance

Absolute top CPU gaming performance is irrelevant to me since I stopped buying top-tier GPUs years ago.

97% of PC users are on mid-range GPUs or worse...

 

[Codeblew]

Why do these intel fanboys all of a sudden care about energy efficiency? Last gen Intel literally melts but they were all giddy about that even after all of the issues came to light.

 

[Marlenus]

So idle power consumption matters to you but also MT perf/$ but not full load power consumption?

Sounds like BS to me.

 

[ahtlas7]

 

[Leonidas]

So idle power consumption matters to you but also MT perf/$ but not full load power consumption?

Sounds like BS to me.

It does matter, which is why I undervolt my CPUs.

 

[Marlenus]

It does matter, which is why I undervolt my CPUs.

But both cannot be simultaneously true. Either your PC is turned on doing something hence the need for MT performance or the PC is turned on doing nothing but light tasks in which case idle or near idle power use can matter but it depends on the ratio of idle to doing actual work.

Also from a TCO perspective for someone not using the machine to make money but for hobbyist reasons the 7800X3D or 7900 are both excellent options.

So really, given the facts your use case seems like contrived BS because if you use it to do real work the full load power savings of a 7900 will more than make up for the 20w extra power consumption at idle (which is a side effect of SOC voltage due to enabling expo and can be tuned) and if you do so little with your PC that the idle power actually matters then maybe stick to a tablet because it will do the same and use even less lower when doing so.

 

[Silver Wattle]

Why wasn't this ready at launch? seems like this gen is a beta test for the next generation.

 

[Zathalus]

I can’t imagine trying to push the fact that 20w of idle difference actually matters. That difference drops to less then 10w when actually using the PC for web browsing and is probably close to the same when using office productivity tools. This is comparing the 9950x and 285k.

 

[Hero_Select]

Just get AMD people. Intel is dying and Ryzen just shits all over them

 

[Marlenus]

I can’t imagine trying to push the fact that 20w of idle difference actually matters. That difference drops to less then 10w when actually using the PC for web browsing and is probably close to the same when using office productivity tools. This is comparing the 9950x and 285k.

It is an odd one. Maybe if you have a pc setup as a media server so it is on 24/7 it may matter a bit but you don't need MT perf/$ as well, it tends to be an either or kind of thing which is why it comes across as a contrived use case by some intel weeb.

 

[Von Hugh]

 

[The Skull]

I have to admit, I did miss Leonidas's mental gymnastics.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

That's my avatar you cunt

 

[ap_puff]

Oh, he's back

Good luck with that OP

 

[DenchDeckard]

Intel is on life support.

And it makes me very sad. We need good competition here.

I hope they manage to rise like a phoenix from the flame. Until then my amd + nvidia combo reigns supreme

 

[FireFly]

When its coming 2 years later and offering no real upgrade for Zen4 for most users, its abysmal.

Zen has always had nice gaming upgrades, with each new version. And now Zen5 comes out with 2-3% better gaming.

No getting around it. It's abysmal.

If Arrow Lake launches and is only 2-3% faster than Zen4 in gaming, I would say it is abysmal as well.

Zen5 Review Thread.

Man, I really hope Intel is paying you, because otherwise “just why.gif”… 😂 They're paying him with shares, that's why he's upset lately.

www.neogaf.com

Of course it does, happy? [Above standard applies to Arrow Lake]

I just can't imagine it happening, and I'm not sure why you would entertain such an unlikely scenario.

Rumor - AMD Ryzen 9000 “Zen 5” Desktop CPU Prices Leaked: 9950X $499, 9900X $399, 9700X $299, 9600X $229

It'd be an abysmal gaming increase if that were the case, but if Arrow Lake still improved greatly in other areas such as efficiency and if I found a use for the NPU, I would still probably buy it. There's a lot more to Arrow Lake than gaming performance. My most important factors are MT perf/$...

www.neogaf.com

I'm glad Leonidas is agreed that even just matching the 14900K in gaming would be abysmal.

 

[OverHeat]

That's my avatar you cunt

Its a fanboy symbol

 

[MarV0]

Keep dreaming…. Seriously you never give up don’t you

Anybody who is not rooting for an Intel comeback is a clueless idiot. Competition is necessary.

 

[OverHeat]

Anybody who is not rooting for an Intel comeback is a clueless idiot. Competition is necessary.

Im not saying that I want a monopoly…just that for this round Intel is shit GTFO

 

[MarV0]

Im not saying that I want a monopoly…just that for this round Intel is shit GTFO

I can smell your dumb corporate fanboy ass from a mile.

 

[SpokkX]

This is good. Hopefully the can get it up to compete in at least some way. Personally i am getting 98003d next yeae but amd needs competition at leat

 

[OverHeat]

I can smell your dumb corporate fanboy ass from a mile.

That’s why I have a 11900k on my second computer lol by the way stop with the insults or you won’t last here.

 

[MarV0]

That’s why I have a 11900k on my second computer lol by the way stop with the insults or you won’t last here.

Yeah my apologies I got carried away for some reason.

I've just seen too many corporate fanboys shill for their own consumer demise.

 

[Esparadrapo]

At this point this must an abuse kink.

Or maybe these are paid and Intel went under because the cost of people acting as the laughing stock on social media and forums skyrocketed. Either way it's good to have some comic relief back no matter if it's a kink or paid by Intel.

 

[Holammer]

That's my avatar you cunt

 

[StereoVsn]

Anybody who is not rooting for an Intel comeback is a clueless idiot. Competition is necessary.

Especially considering current geopolitical issues with Xi’s CCP. Intel needs to be back and that includes manufacturing side.

 

[marquimvfs]

MT perf/$ and web browsing/office/idle power matters a lot to me. AMD would have to improve in these areas for me to consider them again.

Until that is fixed I can only consider Intel CPUs.

I'm sorry, but it looks that AMD won't ever meet your standards, there'll be always something to let you down regarding them. And it's allright, everybody haves their personal brands of choice.

I'm just glad Intel takes full responsibility for the issue and isn't lying to me.

Going by your standards, just putting in a presentation slide that they would offer gaming pariry with 14th gen is a lie itself, judging by the results we have now. The results may change, and I do believe they will, just not in the next two weeks, what can also become another lie, by your own standards, if the patches don't come the way they are announcing.

It will be very disappointing if they can't get at least 5% when the updates drop, that's what it'd take to get rough parity, that's the expectation they set initially.

Again, disappointing and also a lie if they cannot provide the parity that was promised.

Absolute top CPU gaming performance is irrelevant to me since I stopped buying top-tier GPUs years ago.

97% of PC users are on mid-range GPUs or worse...

Yes, that's absolutely true. PCMR is a very small bubble, but the AMD victory this gen is also true. There's nothing that Intel can do this very gen to remedy their situation, unless they pull out some absolutely magic patch that put them above Zen5 3D. There's even some mid tier 3D chips being launched that are a great fit for the 97% you're talking about.

 

[Leonidas]

That's my avatar you cunt

It's NOT the same avatar. It's NOT the same content

Im not saying that I want a monopoly…just that for this round Intel is shit GTFO

Saying its over for Intel this round is like saying no CPU other than X3D matters, which is a dumb statement.
Many people are happy spending 40% of the money (7600) for 80% of Zen5 X3D low res. 4090 gaming performance. The low res. bar charts are meaningless to most people since they game at higher res. and most people don't have a 4090.
Not everyone wants to spend ~$500 on a CPU to play games. The extra $280 vs. a 7600 would be better spent going towards a GPU upgrade, for most people.

I've always said, give me 85-90% of the performance but 33-50% more MT at a lower cost. The name of that CPU could be the 265K after the fix.
Put a 9800X3D against my 13600K side by side with a mid-range GPU at above 1080p and you literally will not see the difference.

Zen5 Review Thread.

Man, I really hope Intel is paying you, because otherwise “just why.gif”… 😂 They're paying him with shares, that's why he's upset lately.

www.neogaf.com

Rumor - AMD Ryzen 9000 “Zen 5” Desktop CPU Prices Leaked: 9950X $499, 9900X $399, 9700X $299, 9600X $229

It'd be an abysmal gaming increase if that were the case, but if Arrow Lake still improved greatly in other areas such as efficiency and if I found a use for the NPU, I would still probably buy it. There's a lot more to Arrow Lake than gaming performance. My most important factors are MT perf/$...

www.neogaf.com

I'm glad Leonidas is agreed that even just matching the 14900K in gaming would be abysmal.

I'm glad you're rehashing ancient posts, but you misunderstood me, I only agree to the below.

285K in gaming today, abysmal.
If 285K ties Zen5, still abysmal in gamnig.
If 285K ties 14900K or beats it, its better than Zen5 and would be the best non3D CPU gaming , not abysmal.

That’s why I have a 11900k on my second computer lol by the way stop with the insults or you won’t last here.

Me having Zen1-3 on my second computer for years makes me not a fanboy too.

But both cannot be simultaneously true. Either your PC is turned on doing something hence the need for MT performance or the PC is turned on doing nothing but light tasks in which case idle or near idle power use can matter but it depends on the ratio of idle to doing actual work.

Of course both can be true. My PC is sometimes rendering things, where I sometimes need the MT performance. And a lot of the time I am browsing the web, reading ebooks, programming, doing office tasks, etc. where my CPU downclocks to an idle state in each of these scenarios. My CPU is downclocked in an idle state the majority of time I use it, I render things on occasion. This is my use case.

So really, given the facts your use case seems like contrived BS because if you use it to do real work the full load power savings of a 7900 will more than make up for the 20w extra power consumption at idle (which is a side effect of SOC voltage due to enabling expo and can be tuned) and if you do so little with your PC that the idle power actually matters then maybe stick to a tablet because it will do the same and use even less lower when doing so.

With the small amount that I render, it would never make up for the constant 20-28 extra idle watts of Zen4 low TDP CPUs.
Vs. 265K that 7900 is pulling an extra 50% power when doing basically nothing... no thanks, I prefer to not be wasteful.

MT efficiency is a little important, I care enough to undervolt my CPU a little, but not enough to constantly blow an extra 33-50% power in idle. Idle power is much more important, since I'm doing light tasks on my PC the majority of my time.

I'm sorry, but it looks that AMD won't ever meet your standards, there'll be always something to let you down regarding them. And it's allright, everybody haves their personal brands of choice.

I really would have bought 9950X if it weren't for the idle power draw and 2 CCX issues. I could have 2X the cores of 9800X3D at only $90 more, the idle draw kills the deal though.

Again, disappointing and also a lie if they cannot provide the parity that was promised.

Agreed.

Yes, that's absolutely true. PCMR is a very small bubble, but the AMD victory this gen is also true.

I just wonder how many people buying the X3D can really take advantage of its higher performance.

I wonder how many people pair their X3D with a mid-range $600-$800 GPU and game at 1440p or higher. Those guys are probably wasting their money.

 

[Zathalus]

I'm glad you're rehashing ancient posts, but you misunderstood me, I only agree to the below.

285K in gaming today, abysmal.
If 285K ties Zen5, still abysmal in gamnig.
If 285K ties 14900K or beats it, its better than Zen5 and would be the best non3D CPU gaming , not abysmal.

Odd statement considering the 14900k and Zen 5 are neared tied for gaming after the recent Windows updates. It’s something like 1%-3% difference.

 

[Marlenus]

I prefer to not be wasteful.

By spending $100's more upfront on a platform that is already EOL?

If all you do is idle you don't really need a PC.

 

[ap_puff]

It's NOT the same avatar. It's NOT the same content


Saying its over for Intel this round is like saying no CPU other than X3D matters, which is a dumb statement.
Many people are happy spending 40% of the money (7600) for 80% of Zen5 X3D low res. 4090 gaming performance. The low res. bar charts are meaningless to most people since they game at higher res. and most people don't have a 4090.
Not everyone wants to spend ~$500 on a CPU to play games. The extra $280 vs. a 7600 would be better spent going towards a GPU upgrade, for most people.

I've always said, give me 85-90% of the performance but 33-50% more MT at a lower cost. The name of that CPU could be the 265K after the fix.
Put a 9800X3D against my 13600K side by side with a mid-range GPU at above 1080p and you literally will not see the difference.


I'm glad you're rehashing ancient posts, but you misunderstood me, I only agree to the below.

285K in gaming today, abysmal.
If 285K ties Zen5, still abysmal in gamnig.
If 285K ties 14900K or beats it, its better than Zen5 and would be the best non3D CPU gaming , not abysmal.


Me having Zen1-3 on my second computer for years makes me not a fanboy too.


Of course both can be true. My PC is sometimes rendering things, where I sometimes need the MT performance. And a lot of the time I am browsing the web, reading ebooks, programming, doing office tasks, etc. where my CPU downclocks to an idle state in each of these scenarios. My CPU is downclocked in an idle state the majority of time I use it, I render things on occasion. This is my use case.


With the small amount that I render, it would never make up for the constant 20-28 extra idle watts of Zen4 low TDP CPUs.
Vs. 265K that 7900 is pulling an extra 50% power when doing basically nothing... no thanks, I prefer to not be wasteful.

MT efficiency is a little important, I care enough to undervolt my CPU a little, but not enough to constantly blow an extra 33-50% power in idle. Idle power is much more important, since I'm doing light tasks on my PC the majority of my time.


I really would have bought 9950X if it weren't for the idle power draw and 2 CCX issues. I could have 2X the cores of 9800X3D at only $90 more, the idle draw kills the deal though.


Agreed.


I just wonder how many people buying the X3D can really take advantage of its higher performance.

I wonder how many people pair their X3D with a mid-range $600-$800 GPU and game at 1440p or higher. Those guys are probably wasting their money.

the whole circus in this post

 

[FireFly]

I'm glad you're rehashing ancient posts, but you misunderstood me, I only agree to the below.

285K in gaming today, abysmal.
If 285K ties Zen5, still abysmal in gamnig.
If 285K ties 14900K or beats it, its better than Zen5 and would be the best non3D CPU gaming , not abysmal.

This is what you said previously:

Right, Zen 5 offering a 2%-3% performance boost in gaming is "abysmal". But it would be perfectly fine for Arrow Lake to offer a similar boost over Raptor Lake.

It'd be an abysmal gaming increase if that were the case, but if Arrow Lake still improved greatly in other areas such as efficiency and if I found a use for the NPU, I would still probably buy it. There's a lot more to Arrow Lake than gaming performance. My most important factors are MT perf/$ and low power usage in low power tasks.

Could be a toss up between 14700K and an Arrow Lake CPU for me this Fall if things turn out badly for Arrow Lake.

Rumor - AMD Ryzen 9000 “Zen 5” Desktop CPU Prices Leaked: 9950X $499, 9900X $399, 9700X $299, 9600X $229

https://www.guru3d.com/story/official-ryzen-9000series-processor-pricing-details-leaked/ Pricing details for the Ryzen 9000-series CPUs have recently been revealed through leaks by Newegg and BestBuy. The information was captured in screenshots by the well-known leaker @momomo_us on X/Twitter...

www.neogaf.com

And besides, in the data you provided in this thread, the 14900K is only 1.5% faster than the 9950X. Yet I seem to recall someone saying that 2% is never a significant increase:

2% is never a signifcant increase. In 2022, when 13900K became the fastest CPU, it did so by nearly 10%. That's the type of increase I wished for a 2024 CPU over a 2022 CPU, sadly, we'll have to wait for Arrow Lake or Zen5 3D.

Being the top CPU doesn't even matter to me as these days (since top gaming CPUs launch at $450-$700) I'd rather have a $300-$350 CPU that gets me 90-93% the way there, while saving $100+, and then upgrade the next time I can get a decent uplift.

Business - AMD presents Zen 5

I legit like Leonidas. He can be fair when he wants to be. I’ve seen him offer good reasons to get AMD CPUs and even GPUs on occasions. But in this thread I think he is off his nut. After the shit Intel just pulled with the power profiles, there is no justification for criticizing AMD for...

www.neogaf.com

So you'd have to be saying that a performance boost of 2% is meaningless, but when two products are separated by this meaningless difference (well, 1.5% !), it's suddenly super important.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Intel: We have Top Men working on it!

 

[Thebonehead]

Some very strange results for Arrow lake so will be interesting to see if they can remediate the outliers along the way.

Generation to skip for me though.

Going from 12900k to 9950x3d as I will dual hat between gaming and playing with llms

 

[Celcius]

Cyberpunk 2077 update 2.2 claims to improve Arrow Lake performance by up to 33%, theoretically matching the Ryzen 7 7800X3D

We have not yet benchmarked the Arrow Lake update, but by our own previous testing, a 33% improvement should yield 7800X3D-like performance.

www.tomshardware.com

Sounds like the new patch for cyberpunk brings massive improvements for arrow lake

 

[StereoVsn]

Cyberpunk 2077 update 2.2 claims to improve Arrow Lake performance by up to 33%, theoretically matching the Ryzen 7 7800X3D

We have not yet benchmarked the Arrow Lake update, but by our own previous testing, a 33% improvement should yield 7800X3D-like performance.

www.tomshardware.com

Sounds like the new patch for cyberpunk brings massive improvements for arrow lake

This would be pretty huge, but if devs have to patch their games for better improvement that’s not great since most won’t bother.

 

[mclaren777]

I have all of the hardware here to assemble my new 265K build. It will primarily be a Lightroom editing machine, but my wife likes to play Civ 6 on it. I'm hoping the upcoming microcode improvements yield meaningful results.

ASRock Z890 Taichi OCF Receives Intel Microcode 0x114 Update Ahead Of Official Release

Intel has prepared the 0x114 microcode as the patch can now be applied to the ASRock Z890 Taichi OCF. While not official, it is coming soon.

wccftech.com

 

[rm082e]

Getting a boost in performance for an existing piece of hardware is great. But as noted there, they haven't benchmarked it themselves yet. They're doing napkin math to come up with that number. Let's see how it actually turns out once tested.

Also, if they're bringing the 265K (MSRP $399) up to 7800x3d (MSRP $480) performance, that's not a big advantage for someone building a new gaming PC. The cheapest boards for the 265K are around $180, while budget AMD boards are around $130. So in the end it's roughly a $30 difference. If you're building a PC with either of these CPUs, you're probably in $1500 total system cost territory, so the margin is 2% between the two platforms.

I guess this brings them back up to par, but not ahead. It's better than nothing.