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Interesting BC development for Xbox 2
- Thread starter GashPrex
- Start date
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yeah, this was posted yesterday. I'm not sure if anyone had anything to say about it though. Seems interesting to me.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
But it was confirmed on these very forums by several haterz that Xenon would not be backwards compatible.
It probably just made sense to have people involved in the XNA initiative work on graphics card support for the VirtualPC product, since they are essentially going to be doing that work already in developing tools that work across Xbox2 and PC platforms. I'm not sure I would read to much into this.
EDIT: Also, open mouth makes a good point.
EDIT: Also, open mouth makes a good point.
sonycowboy
Member
open_mouth_ said:
Have you ever tried to use Virtual PC? It's as slow as a freakin turtle just running Windows 98 and I've got a G5 mac. Emulation is not the answer.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
I thought there was supposed to be some kind of problem with Nvidias IP holding back BC on Xenon?
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
sonycowboy said:
So you're admitting you're a hater?
Anyhow, I'm sure such a talented, dedicated staff that's familiar with the inner workings of both systems will be able to get something more functional and stable ready.
pcostabel said:
Virtual PC 7 is compatible with the new G5 systems, I think. He could also be talking about VMware..
Microsoft just purchased Virtual PC from Connectix last year, I believe (or bought their whole company.. one of the two). So, I guess you could make some kind of theory they purchased Virtual PC/Connectix to help with Xenon BC.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
As far as a system of one generation emulating a system of the previous generation, the best I can think of is Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask on GCN, and that wasn't perfect. Consider that the Xbox successor is being made with a much more price-conscious mindset, and probably coming out ~4 years after its predecessor, and... well, that'd have to be much more impressive emulation than anything I know of for it to be a passable option.
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
I have a powerbook 1.5 ghz G4 ( 1gb Ram ) and win 2000 Sp4 on virtual pc6 works finepcostabel said:
I got also virtual pc 7 with WinXp integrated ( retail version ) and it works better !
I don't think that a powermac G5 is slower than my powebook ...
If MS can put BC into the next X-BOX I say they'll have a much better chance of gaining ground next generation then without it. But I don't see how it's possible, even if the hardware is powerful enough to emulate nicely (very unlikely), there's still the problem with using nVidia's patented commands, then there's the price for emulating the X-BOX's nVidia/Intel chip combo & Virtual PC and on top of that they'd have to add a HD to make games fully compatible. The next X-BOX is suppossed to be cost effective so they can try to turn a profit if adding the cost of BC means adding the cost of a HD as well then they've gone right back to losing money on every next generation X-BOX sold.
I think they're going to stick with the a cheap architecture (to appease investors and not lose their asses on fixed hardware costs again) and for those who really want BC they'll offer a seperate add-on with BC and a HD built-in. That way they keep the system profitable and offer a money-making optionional add-on. That's what this team is probably doing, their looking for a way to make an add-on like that work.
So I still think that the next X-BOX will not have BC, but that if enough people whine about it enough, MS will release an add-on HD with BC. Either way, it's a negative that the competition will try to exploit no doubt. I know alot of people who will be turned away by the lack of this feature out of the box! Like people who didn't own the first X-BOX and wanted to play it's games on the new one, or people who had like compilations that they didn't want to buy AGAIN just to play them on the new X-BOX...or overall how it's going to affect the transition from the first to the next, games will be moved, delayed & cancelled and the first X-BOX will be dropped 'cos it's a sort of thorn in MS's side how much they lose on it.
I think they're going to stick with the a cheap architecture (to appease investors and not lose their asses on fixed hardware costs again) and for those who really want BC they'll offer a seperate add-on with BC and a HD built-in. That way they keep the system profitable and offer a money-making optionional add-on. That's what this team is probably doing, their looking for a way to make an add-on like that work.
So I still think that the next X-BOX will not have BC, but that if enough people whine about it enough, MS will release an add-on HD with BC. Either way, it's a negative that the competition will try to exploit no doubt. I know alot of people who will be turned away by the lack of this feature out of the box! Like people who didn't own the first X-BOX and wanted to play it's games on the new one, or people who had like compilations that they didn't want to buy AGAIN just to play them on the new X-BOX...or overall how it's going to affect the transition from the first to the next, games will be moved, delayed & cancelled and the first X-BOX will be dropped 'cos it's a sort of thorn in MS's side how much they lose on it.
DrGAKMAN said:
A) Microsoft would be fine without B/C; Look at Xbox.
B) The Xbox2 is insanely powerful if the documents are right. By the time Xbox2 is out, it will be more powerful than a high end PC just looking at raw power and not considering actual usable computing power. Considering this, it is quite possible that the Xbox can be fully emulated on Xbox 2 hardware, as the extra computing power can be used to properly emulate the MCP as well as the ring 0 Direct X functions.
C) The hard drive for Xbox was a fixed price, but the CPU and the GPU had other fees attached and Microsoft didn't directly have grasp on costs. This is what hurt the effectiveness of price dropping to Microsoft themselves.
It's like you think Xbox 2 will be cheaper to make than Xbox was at launch.... all signs are pointing to Xbox 2 costing about the same per unit. It's just long term the Xbox 2 will drop in price quicker because Microsoft is directly handling logistics/manufacturing/design.
By the way, what the hell is an X-BOX?
DopeyFish said:
For real, I mean, come on, it's spelled X B O X, yo!
You should hear how I pronounce it, there was this dude who said it this way and it STUCK with me...he said: ETTTS-BOX-DI-KA and ever since then I make fun of it by pretending to be him and say it like he said it. Lighten up, don't let it push your buttons nerd.
As far as MS not needing BC *cough*industrystanderdfeature*cough* is besides the point, which is, the next X-BOX will not have BC going by what we know now.
As far as the "cheapness" of the next X-BOX, I didn't say it was...I've been saying it's very GAMECUBE-esque in that it's cost effective. Most likely it won't use a next generation disc format nor will it have BC or a HD...so...to me, this should cut alot of costs, then having ATi & IBM as partners makes it cost scalable down the road as you said. I'm not saying the system is cheap or weak, just that it won't be such a waste of money to make like the first X-BOX was and still is. I don't think MS is going to add $100+ more for BC and a HD to a system that's meant to be cost effective...that would be like losing as much money as they had lost per unit of the first X-BOX all over again.
Gamecube was made cheap from the beginning. Just think Xbox where the price drops faster. It's just because of the control MS has now over the creation of the hardware as opposed to before.
And Backwards compatibility isn't an industry standard. Just because 20 cry-babies on a gaming forum preach backwards compatibility as a fulltime job doesn't make it a required feature.
And Backwards compatibility isn't an industry standard. Just because 20 cry-babies on a gaming forum preach backwards compatibility as a fulltime job doesn't make it a required feature.
Pedigree Chum
Banned
I hope Xenon is backwards compatible...that'd be hot. And if MS really want to compete with Sony next gen it'll be crucial (at least for early specs comparisons). Especially since Xenon is coming out kinda early (4 yr lifespan) compared to PS2-PS3 (6 yr lifespan).
Just brainstorming here...the main stumbling block as far as backwards compatibility is the lack of a HDD, IMHO...
Even a 1GB flash drive isn't a great idea. Flash wears out after so many write cycles and if it's really being used as a cache, I'd expect that the flash drive may not last very long.
On the other hand, if they threw 1GB of RAM in the box...hrm
Even a 1GB flash drive isn't a great idea. Flash wears out after so many write cycles and if it's really being used as a cache, I'd expect that the flash drive may not last very long.
On the other hand, if they threw 1GB of RAM in the box...hrm
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Could be, but it also can be that the Xbox team is doing that work because they are already highly familiar with it. After all, they had to port and adapt the graphics API, that so far worked in the PC environment, to work in the Mac environment with the direct access to hardware - which is exactly what Virtual PC direct access graphics system has to do.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
I'll repeat myself, because it was a question, and I don't like being left unfulfilled
I thought there was supposed to be some kind of problem with licensing / Nvidias IP holding back BC on Xenon?
Is this the case, has nVidia commented on such? Has MS?
I thought there was supposed to be some kind of problem with licensing / Nvidias IP holding back BC on Xenon?
Is this the case, has nVidia commented on such? Has MS?