SteveWinwood
Member
there are no runes (well there are... but you know what I mean) so people just do whatever man
i dont even know what youd min max
Introduction to MOBAs
- Thread starter SteveWinwood
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there are no runes (well there are... but you know what I mean) so people just do whatever man
i dont even know what youd min max
I mean it's similar for dota, you try to put particular heros into particular lanes, you choose particular skill orders and particular item buy orders, prolly dont go too ham buying 6 ogre gauntlets
it's just dota seems to have more leeway, mostly with the lane assigning
in league, the reason you have a jungler is just that it's the BEST way to obtain more gold, more map presence, more objective security, etc.
when you have no jungler but 2-1-2 instead, you are not playing optimally but instead maybe trying to cheese out a kill or push a tower faster
even in the 4-0 fast push there are usually 2 members that try to get some gold in the jungle before the wave builds up for the push
basically optimizing productivity and shit is smart; it's my understanding that dota has more leeway for not so smart things
like past a certain point, if you dont have a jungler, its considered atrojiscious, u post a screenshot in the league forum of a sw33t game you had at lvl 30 and ppl are all WHERE DAT JUNGLER AT, WHAT IS THIS TEAM COMP, WHAT ARE THESE ITEMS
it's just dota seems to have more leeway, mostly with the lane assigning
in league, the reason you have a jungler is just that it's the BEST way to obtain more gold, more map presence, more objective security, etc.
when you have no jungler but 2-1-2 instead, you are not playing optimally but instead maybe trying to cheese out a kill or push a tower faster
even in the 4-0 fast push there are usually 2 members that try to get some gold in the jungle before the wave builds up for the push
basically optimizing productivity and shit is smart; it's my understanding that dota has more leeway for not so smart things
like past a certain point, if you dont have a jungler, its considered atrojiscious, u post a screenshot in the league forum of a sw33t game you had at lvl 30 and ppl are all WHERE DAT JUNGLER AT, WHAT IS THIS TEAM COMP, WHAT ARE THESE ITEMS
Dota just has a lot more emphasis on itemization than base hero abilities. Abilities are important, sure, but the strength of item actives mean heroes aren't nearly as restrained by what they're capable of. That's not to say items are a necessity either. Lack of scaling combined with powerful abilities means a support far exceeds a carry in kill power in the early game, even without a single last hit, allowing them to transition to semi-carry or full-carry in the mid-late game. The lack of a jungling zeitgeist also helps. A jungler is "just another option", instead of being clearly optimal play.
This kind of laissez fair balance results in less "min/max" attitudes, except at certain MMRs (noticeably the 5k range, since everyone is trying to get onto the Leaderboards). Individual skill, from Bronze tier scum to <5k Gold tryhards, is far more important than matchup. Matchup only comes into play when both teams are extremely close in terms of skill, not only as individuals, but as a team, which is rare.
One thing I never understood about League is why 2-1-2 can't work consistently, because theoretically, 2v1 top would result in almost 0 farm for the 1, as is often the case in DOTA2. This should balance out the fact that the 2-1-2 team lacks a jungler and the 1-1-2-Jungle team gets Jungle gold. There's an equilibrium effect in DOTA2, where given any lane composition against any other, there are a bunch of checks and balances in place to make sure no one gets out of hand. If it's a trilane vs a duo-lane, the trilane has the advantage in aggression but the duo lane gets more EXP, as well as leaving the other duo lane to bully out the solo (1v2 is much harder to manage than 2v3). Similarly, if it's a duo mid vs a solo mid, then that means one of the other lanes is a 2v1, or maybe even both, in the case of the rare 1-2-1-jungle. Once gain, equilibrium is maintained. The same is true even for a roaming support, because the threat of a roam forces ALL enemy lanes to play more passive, making up for the EXP/Gold the roamer misses while moving from lane to lane.
I can think of a number of reasons why the equilibrium effect is less noticeable in League:
1) Lower impact skills, it's just a lot harder to bully someone out completely.
2) More passive gold gain (or less reliance on creep gold).
3) Lack of denies, since it's difficult to box someone completely out of EXP-range in DOTA2, but what little EXP they soak up can be cut in half or in two-thirds via denies.
4) The Jungle in League is just very profitable. In DOTA2, jungling is a big risk except for certain heroes (creep dominators), who don't benefit that much from a gold lead and have to gank/push anyway. Safer jungles benefit less from jungle gold, risky jungles benefit more, so the design of jungle capable heroes naturally contributes to the equilibrium.
I never played League as 5, however, so I was never able to test these ideas.
This kind of laissez fair balance results in less "min/max" attitudes, except at certain MMRs (noticeably the 5k range, since everyone is trying to get onto the Leaderboards). Individual skill, from Bronze tier scum to <5k Gold tryhards, is far more important than matchup. Matchup only comes into play when both teams are extremely close in terms of skill, not only as individuals, but as a team, which is rare.
One thing I never understood about League is why 2-1-2 can't work consistently, because theoretically, 2v1 top would result in almost 0 farm for the 1, as is often the case in DOTA2. This should balance out the fact that the 2-1-2 team lacks a jungler and the 1-1-2-Jungle team gets Jungle gold. There's an equilibrium effect in DOTA2, where given any lane composition against any other, there are a bunch of checks and balances in place to make sure no one gets out of hand. If it's a trilane vs a duo-lane, the trilane has the advantage in aggression but the duo lane gets more EXP, as well as leaving the other duo lane to bully out the solo (1v2 is much harder to manage than 2v3). Similarly, if it's a duo mid vs a solo mid, then that means one of the other lanes is a 2v1, or maybe even both, in the case of the rare 1-2-1-jungle. Once gain, equilibrium is maintained. The same is true even for a roaming support, because the threat of a roam forces ALL enemy lanes to play more passive, making up for the EXP/Gold the roamer misses while moving from lane to lane.
I can think of a number of reasons why the equilibrium effect is less noticeable in League:
1) Lower impact skills, it's just a lot harder to bully someone out completely.
2) More passive gold gain (or less reliance on creep gold).
3) Lack of denies, since it's difficult to box someone completely out of EXP-range in DOTA2, but what little EXP they soak up can be cut in half or in two-thirds via denies.
4) The Jungle in League is just very profitable. In DOTA2, jungling is a big risk except for certain heroes (creep dominators), who don't benefit that much from a gold lead and have to gank/push anyway. Safer jungles benefit less from jungle gold, risky jungles benefit more, so the design of jungle capable heroes naturally contributes to the equilibrium.
I never played League as 5, however, so I was never able to test these ideas.
SteveWinwood
Member
yeah too much rpg thinking and i get stuck on stats
yeah i mean there are definitely laning, item and skill progression standards
but if someone wants to get a heavens halberd on omniknight no one will probably care
i mean do stupid shit and people might yell
but as long as it makes sense and you can make an argument for it most won't care that it's not the 100% most efficient thing on the planet, it all helps
because it doesnt seem people experiment with them at all (due to price) and instead just go on the internet and find out what everyone else min max'd
thats pretty hardcore boring
if they were all 100% free i think it could be a really fun thing to mess around with
they cost xp aka grind
you cant buy them with $$$ even if you wanted to
Is there a reason why they cost money?
It just seems like a really dumb decision to me.
there are definitely times in league where you can go not-best-choice build, and i mean it constantly happens with ppl unaware of it (again, many mostly follow blindly), and ppl dont care. but there is definitely this underlying sentiment that that person is not trying as hard, doesn't want to win as much (because if they did they would have built THAT, or played x champ in THIS lane, etc.), im sure it's present in dota too so I can't really speak on league being more that way or not
but like, there are definitely many situations where people are cool with weird shit, it's just almost always there is this idea in the back of their head that weird shit is happening.
my experience with runes is 100% just copying shit, maybe a lil less so after the recent changes
mostly with ad champs, deciding whether to run atspd quints vs. lifesteal quints vs. armor quints
but ive made do with just 3 pages for the longest time
but like, there are definitely many situations where people are cool with weird shit, it's just almost always there is this idea in the back of their head that weird shit is happening.
my experience with runes is 100% just copying shit, maybe a lil less so after the recent changes
mostly with ad champs, deciding whether to run atspd quints vs. lifesteal quints vs. armor quints
but ive made do with just 3 pages for the longest time
this, but also that items are mostly about stats
there needs be more playstyle defining items like dfg, zhonyas, shurelyas, bjork, lich bane, etc. and less rabbadons and bloodthirsters. and certainly less void staffs and last whispers (which are basically trading a top laner item for a adc/apc item)
like haly says, league is about champion abilities, which is fine but i think items are the big issue. it's kind of why i like lissandra so much, she can kind of build anything and do ok (i've even done like lich bane tp lizzy for the splitpush), so you can play her differently in each situation and be an assassin, initiator, splitpusher or aoe cc mage (usually a mix of all those) depending on what you bought
also really runes and masteries don't really matter or have anything to do with this. a lot of people have plenty of runepages and some people like experimenting and some don't, easy as that. runes and masteries actually affect your playstyle somewhat, which i like, so i'd say they're actually better for diversity and experimentation.
like with everything in this game most people starting just go with the recommended stuff, get their resistances and fill up their ad and ap pages. then when they have all the champions they want and have a good amount of ip they may think about getting hybrid pen reds and see about getting some more basic attack harrass, they may think about getting movespeed quints to roam, etc.
they should be cheaper tho, that's for sure
edit: but like if you see what runes pros builds they're all over the place, specially non carry roles like supports and junglers. item build diversity changes a bit from champion to champion, but there's room to express yourself a bit there, but again you'll see weird shit like roccat's mid laner building a jungle item just to farm wraiths faster and get an advantage on his opponent, so there's something there, just not enough.
i personally like to think a lot about items and feel like i could really use 3 or 4 more core items mid to feel like i'm really in control of how i'm gonna play my champion
runes are basically a non factor that is made so riot can make a lil extra skrilla, but at the same time it's not like you really have to play crazy amounts to afford runes. I don't even know if the idea that you need runes to jungle still holds up
I don't know if dota does this, but in league a good item is often "gold efficient", in the sense that it's stats are worth the money you put down for it, like ppl actually calculate this. I know when I was playing dota I didn't really look to that, I cared more about whether the build path was ok; always built the most expensive component first in case I died
I don't know if dota does this, but in league a good item is often "gold efficient", in the sense that it's stats are worth the money you put down for it, like ppl actually calculate this. I know when I was playing dota I didn't really look to that, I cared more about whether the build path was ok; always built the most expensive component first in case I died
Sorry, I meant is there a reason why they cost in game money?
SteveWinwood
Member
ive seen that browsing lol wikis
its not really a thing in hard numbers calculated out
everybody knows a branch is the most gold efficient and it all goes downhill from there
youre more worried about item slots so you really dont care you getting +10 stats for twice the price you would be getting 10 branches
that too
the frog plays around with prices almost every patch
orb of venom for example has practically been halved in price in like 2 years
There's gold efficiency in DOTA2, of a sort, but it basically distills an item into the active effect.
Let's say Mekansm stats add up to like 1800g. The total cost of Mekansm is 2300g, a 500g deficit. The question you have to ask yourself is, is a 250HP AoE Heal on 45 second cooldown worth 500g? Usually the answer is yes. You can see this reasoning most clearly with items like Blink Dagger and BKB. Is Blink worth 2150g? Yes! Is magic immunity worth 1375g? Yes! Even without stats, people would still get BKB, it's just that good.
Let's say Mekansm stats add up to like 1800g. The total cost of Mekansm is 2300g, a 500g deficit. The question you have to ask yourself is, is a 250HP AoE Heal on 45 second cooldown worth 500g? Usually the answer is yes. You can see this reasoning most clearly with items like Blink Dagger and BKB. Is Blink worth 2150g? Yes! Is magic immunity worth 1375g? Yes! Even without stats, people would still get BKB, it's just that good.
Dota items can be gold efficient (drums, urn, medallion) but slot inefficient (you can't get every utility item on a single hero as you need boots, TP and wards if you're the 4/5).
i just think doto items were designed more intelligently
i wish rito adds tons of items in s5. like they can keep the standard deathcap-void staff/bt-lw -ie lines but i think i'm bored of those
doesn't even need cool actives, shit like nashor's tooth is already pretty cool, but it needs to be a lot more involved, less about just buying stats
i wish rito adds tons of items in s5. like they can keep the standard deathcap-void staff/bt-lw -ie lines but i think i'm bored of those
doesn't even need cool actives, shit like nashor's tooth is already pretty cool, but it needs to be a lot more involved, less about just buying stats
Lack of item slots is by far the biggest limiting factor for supports in dota. You need a TP scroll, wards, invis detection, boots, and normally a magic stick, leaving you with a single free slot.
Also, Magic stick is such a good item. It gains a charge every time an enemy casts a spell, and each charge gives 15 hp/mana. I find it odd when people skip it, its 200 gold.
I hope Dota gets some more items soon, its been like two years since the last set a major additions (Shadow Amulet is such a crappy items still)
Also, Magic stick is such a good item. It gains a charge every time an enemy casts a spell, and each charge gives 15 hp/mana. I find it odd when people skip it, its 200 gold.
I hope Dota gets some more items soon, its been like two years since the last set a major additions (Shadow Amulet is such a crappy items still)
SteveWinwood
Member
It's too expensive for anyone to really experiment with it. Make it dirt cheap and add a recipe to shadow blade and you'll probably see people pick it up casually and do all sorts of dumb shit with it.
I don't think so. I think Dota is just managed more intelligently. Riot seems to have a vision for League, and are dedicated to making that vision come true. Everything from the monetization systems, to the game balance, to the comp scene, is carefully cut and pruned according to some master plan.
DotA and DOTA2, on the other hand, are a series of accidents and bandages. Someone discovers denying, Icefrog keeps it in, then takes it out, then puts it back in again at community request. Some items aren't seeing much use, so he overpowers them to see what would happen. Item choices are getting predictable, so he introduces new ones to shake things up. Metagame is getting too stale, so Icefrog puts wards on cooldown and makes the Smoke item. Bottle crowing is making mid, the "BIG PLAYS" lane, passive, so he nerfs it. Buyback is leading to endless games, so Icefrog puts Buyback on a timer. People start camping Roshan, so he adds variance to the spawn time. He never seems to impose his idea of what the game should be onto the players, only stepping in to fix things that get broken. Otherwise, he leaves figuring out the game to the players, letting them find new ways to destroy it, before stepping in to patch it up again newer and better than before.
Valve is taking the same approach on the out-of-game experience. Empowering the community with content creation tools, as well as a pipeline for getting that content into the game, means they can let the game run itself. The competitive scene? They set an example with the International, and then let fans do the rest. Dreamhack, Starleague, ESL, many other major and minor leagues, all funded and organized by fans and entrepreneurs. Valve only holds a world championship once every year as a showcase of the game to the world. The International was never about the creation of a competitive community (since one already existed), but as a proof-of-concept on what is possible for DOTA2.
Then why do people tell others not to Jungle without Runes or Masteries?
Some things:
Smite (40s creep nuke)
Passive gold items / dmg bonus on creeps that are passed up for sustain in lane (Wriggle's)
Importance of Red/Blue buffs (Infinite mana is p. good)
Any amount of time missing by a laner can be accounted for and a Mid can't just TP at Top or bot in 5 seconds (More like 15) while a jungler is usually off map and can.
SteveWinwood
Member
why do people accuse it of just watching a youtube video and copying then?
the creeps aren't random like dota are they?
@haly
that's not all that different that what rito does what with the jungle and support changes and shit. there's a vision for how the game's supposed to be played but it's not replacing what players do.
the turret changes only happened when 2v1ing was every single game. now if a team scouts the other team and manages to guess where they're sending their duo lane they can choose to fast push in like 3v1/4v0 or force laning phase in 2v2.
it might not work as good as it should but for the most part the changes were always about enabling more ways of playing the game than removing others
but i don't jungle so i'm the wrong person to ask
that's not all that different that what rito does what with the jungle and support changes and shit. there's a vision for how the game's supposed to be played but it's not replacing what players do.
the turret changes only happened when 2v1ing was every single game. now if a team scouts the other team and manages to guess where they're sending their duo lane they can choose to fast push in like 3v1/4v0 or force laning phase in 2v2.
it might not work as good as it should but for the most part the changes were always about enabling more ways of playing the game than removing others
cos people are stuck in i think season 1 when junglers got manhandled by the jungle monsters and ran around the map with like 1/10th hp or something
but i don't jungle so i'm the wrong person to ask
is everything random in dota!?
Lack of TP really hurts dynamic play in League, I think, cause the map may not be larger, but it's "larger" relative to the mobility options available to DOTA2 heroes.
That said, given the current state of League, if people could buy TPs there would even be less aggression because no one would be ever willing to dive.
That said, given the current state of League, if people could buy TPs there would even be less aggression because no one would be ever willing to dive.
I see.
noskill rnjesus game plz
TheFightingFish
Member
I wonder, what was the original motivation for buyback? Even it the current form it just seems like a straight up game extender, and to me it always subverted the whole "you get killed, you sit and watch from the penalty box" point of a MOBA.
Lanes aren't always spread to be the most efficient though. A phrase I always have to remind myself in Dota is "everything is situational" because I still have the knee-jerk reaction against lanes or items that may look weird. For example, duo mid is a thing. You use it when you want to make sure the enemy mid laner is supressed so he doesn't have the impact mid game he usually needs to make. Dendi, Na'vi's mid laner often have pubs overcompensate because its him so he sometimes went against trilane mid lol.
I think the items have something to do with some stricter builds. Like, you usually expect the adc to build a bloodthirster or attack speed or crit items. There's not alot of leeway in how you can build an adc which is a good thing because its usually noob proof.
Its laissez faire you dirty casual.
But yeah, one thing I've noticed and I had discussed it Sunday with a buddy, is how top laners have a hard time in 1v2. Personally I believe this is because they're not classified as top laners because of their survivability like Dota's offlaner so I'm hopeful we'll see something like that with the switched lanes meta.
If you look at heroes played solo offlane they usually have lots of survivability due to escape abilities or tankiness or good sustain. There's also not the ability to leech the enemy jungler's xp due to the lack of long invis.
SteveWinwood
Member
its more fun that way
i mean there are certain camps where only certain creeps can spawn
but overall since creeps have a bigger impact than just dying it can have a major role early game with chen, enchantress, or doom for example
It makes late game fights super tense, provides a comeback mechanic, and ensures that one flukey team fight doesn't end the game. The back and forth is what makes dota dota, not like league where you lose one team fight and they get dragon it might as well be GG right then.
Last I saw the game lengths in pro LoL, they were basically the exact same as Dota on average, mid 30 minutes.
In LoL you don't see the 90 minute epics as much or the 10 minute gg go next as much, but on average both last around 34-35 minutes. Even with buyback.
yeah Riot (or Tencent or whatever) is all about having a deep hand in shaping how the direction it's game goes, though of course I wouldn't go so far as to say that they completely shape things. For example, they recently changed it so that the towers at top had a damage block put on them early on; this was ostensibly meant to prevent 2v1 lane swaps though I don't know if they explicitly said that I don't really follow Riot. but we see how that turned out, it just resulted in 3v1s 4v0s.
but maybe more importantly, Riot is deeply involved in fostering the pro scene putting in scrooge mcduck levels of money into it. But I mean, they definitely take advantage of accidents too; the pro scene itself was almost an accident that sprung out of popular streamers and kinda rag tag teams that were created during it's beta. arguably things like twitch or own3d.tv, rip, were made feasible because of league streamers, of hotshot raging all day and night. Riot jumped on dat shit.
First it was laughable, poorly organized tournaments, but everything became professionalized, ppl wearing suits and undergoing TV production lvl training, players getting make-up applied before games, big azz screens that don't make any sense, like spectacle shit. The first LCS (I don't remember if this is season 2 or season 3) had caster REPEATEDLY referencing horrible internet jokes, hammering down references to real life conflict, enhancing storylines that were barely there; and at the same time the more business savvy groups were making mistakes like "mistakenly" leaving a stream on for industry reveals, having big ass fights on stream, just a lot of drama. it's kinda a big part of why I enjoy pro league, though after LCS came around a lot of that has died down.
Riot now pays the pro players salaries (thus making them Riot employees, subject to a mess of Riot rules; remember the outcry over pro players not being allowed to stream dota or Hearthstone, which kinda amounted to nothing at all). If you watch the promotional series this week you will see a lot of stories like THESE PLAYERS HAVE THEIR LIVELIHOODS ON THE LINE, THIS IS ALL OR NOTHING, THIS IS SUCH AN OPPORTUNITY, and it's literally a storyline that would not happen if Riot hadn't standardized competitive play in the way they have
Like yeah, the basic difference between Riot and Valve e-sports can be seen in Riot putting up crazy money for esports all year, getting an end of the season gala at Staples Center vs. Valve creating a compendium of content and selling it to players, and diverting that money towards the pool for the International
maybe if rito slowed down the gatling gun patch release strategy a few more strategies would develop, maybe the community would grow to accept 2v1s and whatnot
tho i personally don't know if i would want that.
i like going 1v1 mid, it feels like a duel on many fronts, who can outdo the other in farming, roaming, teamfights, etc.
i like that part of league
tho i personally don't know if i would want that.
i like going 1v1 mid, it feels like a duel on many fronts, who can outdo the other in farming, roaming, teamfights, etc.
i like that part of league
actually it's really interesting how both Riot and Valve are completely community minded in totally different ways
the Riot community is the most proactive video game community I have ever seen
here's a documentary made in-house by a pro team and put out by Machinima
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhWMFADkXVo
here's the original one that was shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-ogRVCTFvU
they chose to go with the first one because of how it had a more cohesive narrative. they thought about that, they thought about making a documentary about themselves and then packaging and marketing it.
tho everyone thought the original was more insightful
the Riot community is the most proactive video game community I have ever seen
here's a documentary made in-house by a pro team and put out by Machinima
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhWMFADkXVo
here's the original one that was shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-ogRVCTFvU
they chose to go with the first one because of how it had a more cohesive narrative. they thought about that, they thought about making a documentary about themselves and then packaging and marketing it.
tho everyone thought the original was more insightful
I'd like to take this time to mention out that 2v1 mid is rare in DOTA2, usually means that the 2 mid team are employing some rogue strat, or their mid is losing horribly and need someone's help to nerd out the other guy. I bring it up only as an example of what's possible, because it even happens in pub level play. Whereas the only 2v1 mid I ever saw in League was yango ganks
or, like, closed beta bedrock tier leeg.
how long does laning last in doto anyways
but yea it's pretty rare, mostly because dumbies like us don't really know how to play those strategies. like say we take top really fast, but jungler doesn't help bot so they take bot. now we're even but we have like half of each team playing without a turret not knowing what to do. someone goes to dragon, someone pushes mid, someone keeps pushing bot, it's a mess
i've seen a couple of 2v1s, tho they're really far and in between nowadays. there was a time when it was kind of popular (at least more popular than now) and you'd sometimes run into it, which was pretty cool. when i play like ranked 5s we sometimes do 2v1s if we don't like the matchups too
but yea it's pretty rare, mostly because dumbies like us don't really know how to play those strategies. like say we take top really fast, but jungler doesn't help bot so they take bot. now we're even but we have like half of each team playing without a turret not knowing what to do. someone goes to dragon, someone pushes mid, someone keeps pushing bot, it's a mess
like I said there's some stuff going on in league pubs, but it's always considered a special occurence rather than a viable way of going forward.
if you have some guys choosing 5 good champs for all 5 champs mid super train, you'll most likely see a video on reddit about how wacky it is coupled with ppl on voice comms going ohhhhhhhh my goooooood
if you have some guys choosing 5 good champs for all 5 champs mid super train, you'll most likely see a video on reddit about how wacky it is coupled with ppl on voice comms going ohhhhhhhh my goooooood
SteveWinwood
Member
You should try dota.
That shit is crazy intense.
Example: http://chaqdota.wordpress.com/2013/09/05/chaqs-ultimate-guide-to-advanced-solo-middle/
Watching rtz reminds me how much I suck at it
That's what the ward bitch is for.
You should try dota.
That shit is crazy intense.
Example: http://chaqdota.wordpress.com/2013/09/05/chaqs-ultimate-guide-to-advanced-solo-middle/
Watching rtz reminds me how much I suck at it
i can't play mid now
i'm on waifu-free diet
face made me
i tried jungling with sexy broodmother
jungle owned me real hard
lol jungling > dota jungling
It's for your own good.
SteveWinwood
Member
are there non waifu mids in lol
Depends on team comp. By instinct I'd say average of 10 minutes, high of 15, low of 5.
Mid is the most flexible lane in League. You could honestly run just about any champion there.
I am especially please the piece of shit website dotahut.com made by TSM ( to cash in because of http://www.solomid.net/ ) failed terribly.
they also have a smite team for some reason
the guy who's the head of the organization created it when he was 17, and got basically 4 hours of sleep everyday last year, devoting time to both running the company and being a pro player, also he might be a huge dik
he was heckled a lot as a player, ppl called him no eyebrow wukong (cuz he looked like mankey), but he also pioneered a haters gonna hate attitude, shouting BAYLIFE all the time, yolo b4 yolo was even a thing
here's a gif of his brother smiling
the guy who's the head of the organization created it when he was 17, and got basically 4 hours of sleep everyday last year, devoting time to both running the company and being a pro player, also he might be a huge dik
he was heckled a lot as a player, ppl called him no eyebrow wukong (cuz he looked like mankey), but he also pioneered a haters gonna hate attitude, shouting BAYLIFE all the time, yolo b4 yolo was even a thing
here's a gif of his brother smiling
Guys I have a confession to make.
I picked Lycan because of a losing streak.
Forgive me dota fathers, for i have sinned.
I claim mitigating circumstances though. It was single draft and I ended up solo vs a windranger magnus dual lane. Does that redeem my soul a bit? Or am I doomed to a fiery damnation?
I picked Lycan because of a losing streak.
Forgive me dota fathers, for i have sinned.
I claim mitigating circumstances though. It was single draft and I ended up solo vs a windranger magnus dual lane. Does that redeem my soul a bit? Or am I doomed to a fiery damnation?