iPhone - Official Thread
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cvxfreak said:
It might depend on where you live. Where I live (Northern California), EDGE works great for me. The latency sucks but data wise I can get a constant 20-25 kilobytes per second. Definitely better than dial up.
I browse NeoGAF on my phone with Opera Mini using EDGE and it works fine. Each full thread page takes about 20 seconds to load up. I figure with Safari's tabbed browsing, you could just open up a bunch of pages at once and let Safari load them, then read each one
.yayaba said:It might depend on where you live. Where I live (Northern California), EDGE works great for me. The latency sucks but data wise I can get a constant 20-25 kilobytes per second. Definitely better than dial up.
I browse NeoGAF on my phone with Opera Mini using EDGE and it works fine. Each full thread page takes about 20 seconds to load up. I figure with Safari's tabbed browsing, you could just open up a bunch of pages at once and let Safari load them, then read each one
I live in the Bay Area so it sounds good.
maynerd said:Meh my sprint plan blows that away.
- 500 minutes
- Unlimited Sprint Vision or Power Vision (Vision for Vision phones, Power Vision for Power Vision phones)
- Unlimited Mobile to Mobile
- Unlimited Sprint Picture Mail
- unlimited text messages
- Unlimited Nights & Weekends (starting at 7pm)
- Nationwide Long Distance
- Voice Mail
- Caller ID
- Call Waiting
- Numeric Paging
- Three-Way Calling
$30
To be fair, once you start accumulating rollover minutes, AT&T comes out ahead. I've got about 1500 anytime minutes tucked away for a rainy day, it rules.
marwan said:
HSDPA and UMTS don't have a strong foothold in the U.S., tell your source to put an iSock in it.
EVDO, the CDMA equivalent to GSM-based 3G, however, is pretty big.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
yayaba said:
Isn't it 35kb/sec? Still mediocre.
Images are what makes you feel the slow speeds of EDGE. Turn off image loading and web pages should load reasonably quick...nowhere close to a minute for most pages. I'm not sure why they bothered with the whole youtube thing without 3G...I guess they are assuming people will use it while at WI-FI spots only or somethin.
Some engadget notes:
* The mobile version of OS X or whatever it is the iPhone runs takes up 700MB of the device's capacity. Damn son!
* There's no way to cut, copy, or paste text! WHOA! Big, big mistake.
* No A2DP support. That, friends, is such a huge bummer right there.
* Sorry, music can't be used as a ringtone -- even if it's just a raw MP3. No additional ringtones will be sold at launch.
* On a PC the iPhone syncs with Outlook for calendars AND addresses! Noice.
* It supports Exchange in some capacity, according to Walt, but he doesn't exactly say how.
* Pogue again confirms document file reading -- but not editing -- for PDF, Word, and Excel (only).
* Adobe Flash support is officially out. It's just not in the browser. Neither is there any other kind of embedded video support. Sorry everybody, that's that.
* It will take snaps, but won't record video. How can Apple love YouTube as much as it does and not realize cellphone-shot movies make up a sizeable chunk of the crazy crap you find on there?
Some engadget notes:
* The mobile version of OS X or whatever it is the iPhone runs takes up 700MB of the device's capacity. Damn son!
* There's no way to cut, copy, or paste text! WHOA! Big, big mistake.
* No A2DP support. That, friends, is such a huge bummer right there.
* Sorry, music can't be used as a ringtone -- even if it's just a raw MP3. No additional ringtones will be sold at launch.
* On a PC the iPhone syncs with Outlook for calendars AND addresses! Noice.
* It supports Exchange in some capacity, according to Walt, but he doesn't exactly say how.
* Pogue again confirms document file reading -- but not editing -- for PDF, Word, and Excel (only).
* Adobe Flash support is officially out. It's just not in the browser. Neither is there any other kind of embedded video support. Sorry everybody, that's that.
* It will take snaps, but won't record video. How can Apple love YouTube as much as it does and not realize cellphone-shot movies make up a sizeable chunk of the crazy crap you find on there?
marwan said:
They're not qualifying it with "up to" for no reason, you know that, right?
Also, 280 kilobits per second is equivalent to 35 kilobytes per second. And that's under best-case circumstances, I'd be interested in knowing if it translates at all to the real world.
Future said:
No copying/pasting: This is mindblowing, cutting and pasting text is a feature found in even the most basic of phones released several years ago, nevermind today.
No MP3 ringtones: Is this implying that you can't have custom ringtones, period? A lot of phones let you toss an MP3 file into the storage memory via Bluetooth/USB to assign as a ringtone.
Outlook syncing: So for those of us who don't like using mail clients that have a history of being about as secure as wet paper bag, what are our options (e.g., Thunderbird)?
No Flash: So much for the real Internet, huh Apple? Flash and Flash Video is a pretty common ingredient in popular websites, including nytimes.com, which you show off on your commercial for the iPhone. Is your allergic reaction to it so fierce that you'd spite your users just to force all their web video viewing to be via Quicktime?
Meh. Good plans, kind of sucks that AT&T bones current customers by making them tack another 2-years onto their contract just because the iPhone's data plan has a special designation, and Apple, for all their hype, is clearly releasing this thing before all the things that SHOULD be there ARE there.
mashoutposse said:
Give or take... I didn't use a calculator
It's not terrible. Most people are expecting dial up speeds. I'm just saying it's not as bad.
Honestly, once you start hitting ISDN speeds and upwards, web pages will be relatively snappy. I'm not downloading files anyway on mobile connections... that's what my home broadband is for. All I want is decent speeds for surfing the internet and EDGE is good enough for that.
As long as the iPhone can remain constantly connected. One thing I hate about my SE phone is that it drops the data connection and I have to sit there waiting for it to reconnect.
xsarien said:
Again, I average from about 20 to 25 kBytes/ps which is pretty good in my book. I would've killed to have speeds like that back in the 28.8K/56K era.
That's just my area though and I know it's not indicative of the entire US as I expect AT&T to be rather poor in other areas.
Flo_Evans said:EDGE might be a bit faster than dail-up on paper but in the real world it feels like dail-up.
those engadget notes do not sound like to much fun.
maybe I will wait for the 2G...
It's especially bad for those of us that haven't suffered through dial-up for 8+ years. Even though I have 3G, once I leave the metro area, I am in edgeland. Make note of that folks, as of right now, the 3G v. Edge thing is only important if you don't live in a shitty part of the US.
damn, i really DO want one but I'm still holding off.
i would buy it online if they have the option of paying the phone monthly, but if it doesn't have that option for the phone, then i wont get it.
do you guys think they will offer that option for the phone online?
i got the money to buy it but i got other important things to pay, such as bills and the rent.
i would buy it online if they have the option of paying the phone monthly, but if it doesn't have that option for the phone, then i wont get it.
do you guys think they will offer that option for the phone online?
i got the money to buy it but i got other important things to pay, such as bills and the rent.
I haven't followed Apple very closely so can anyone answer these questions please.
How is Apple with public feedback and reacting to it with firmware updates and patches?
How is the society for 3rd parties creating or trickin Apple products to do things it couldn't? Like how long do you think it would take people to find a way to get ringtones to play on the thing if Apple didn't quickly take a step first.
How is Apple with public feedback and reacting to it with firmware updates and patches?
How is the society for 3rd parties creating or trickin Apple products to do things it couldn't? Like how long do you think it would take people to find a way to get ringtones to play on the thing if Apple didn't quickly take a step first.
I'm not sure someone could precisely select text using the tip of their finger. Even using a stylus on Windows Mobile and Palm phones are sketchy. Maybe Apple didn't want people to have to deal with the hassle.xsarien said:
Your mail client on your computer simply holds the settings used to get your email from a server. You can enter the POP or IMAP settings onto the iPhone directly if you need.
I think there are big concerns with having a Flash plugin that most people haven't considered. First, Flash is a processor hog. It could easily slow down that weak mobile CPU used in the iPhone (whatever it is). Being a processor hog, it would also be a battery hog. Third, Macromedia would have to custom write a plugin just for Apple. It would have to be made to work with multi-touch... which begs the question if many Flash apps would even *WORK* with a multi-touch interface. Fourth, the Safari browser does all this zooming in and out. I'm not sure how they would make an embedded Flash plugin work with that. Fourth, there's a limited amount of flash-ram to work with. Some Flash animations or videos could take up too much. It would also be a bandwidth hog.
In short, there are a TON of hurdles in getting Flash working on the iPhone that may not be ultimately worth what the device is trying to really accomplish. Hell, I haven't seen evidence that animated GIFs even play in Safari for some of the the same reasons (processor/bandwidth/battery hog).
ant1532 said:
It depends. If it's something blatant, like an OS update inadvertently formatting external, USB hard drives, they'll patch it. If it's a feature request, well...look how long it took them to acknowledge that some iPod users wanted video? Apple, largely, moves when they're ready to move.
Apple's short-term solution for iPhone applications is, well, breathtaking in its "Go **** yourselves." For now, all you can do is create a website that uses various Web 2.0 technologies to make an "application" that resides online; no way to access it outside of a bookmark in Safari.
There have been hints that they'd allow REAL application development, but I wouldn't hold my breath. As far as hacking the phone? I wouldn't doubt it, but Apple being Apple, they'd fight back with software updates.
ant1532 said:
It's difficult to venture a guess. it would be easy functionality to implement, but (no slam here, a business is a business) Apple may not consider it in their best interest to allow users to use their own stuff.
I don't think that scenario is exactly likely, but if making your own ring tones hasn't been addressed by now, I think it's been left out for a reason.
When I say major upgrade, I mean 1 to 1.5, or 1.5 to 2, or 1 to 2.
Shogmaster
Member
ckohler said:
What you have listed is very clear explanation of the reasons, but I could have saved you tons of typing by saying:
"When Apple said 'it's the real internet', they meant the real internet from 1999." *doesn't even bother to run because am tired*
I'm pretty much set on getting this now. I'm an existing member of AT&T so it's not a big hassle to me with the whole switching and service plan thing as everyone else.
Also for the new comers to At&t that like to do those around hassle but cheaper deals I don't know how well this will work but check this article out.
How to land the Iphone for $300
Also for the new comers to At&t that like to do those around hassle but cheaper deals I don't know how well this will work but check this article out.
How to land the Iphone for $300
ant1532 said:
If you're gonna be a guinea pig, it'd be great if you can find out if it extends your contract if you're currently under one.
ckohler said:
That's a real cop-out. If they can expect people to adjust to texting with a virtual keyboard and all the "quirks" that come along with that, then they could develop a select/copy/paste system for the phone as well. I'm just spitballing here - it's nearly 1am - but gently swiping your finger over a block of text in one stroke could highlight text, lifting could bring up a contextual menu asking if you'd like to cut or copy, and a simple menu option - somewhere, anywhere - could trigger a paste.
lol, this pretty much renders the iPhone useless to me!
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/finally-confirmed-what-the-iphone-doesnt-have-272571.php
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/26/iphone-facts-from-the-first-reviews/
back to my beloved Sony Ericsson K800.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/finally-confirmed-what-the-iphone-doesnt-have-272571.php
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/26/iphone-facts-from-the-first-reviews/
back to my beloved Sony Ericsson K800.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
The iPhone is missing too much for a $500 device. It should be awesome in a couple of years, though.
SuperPac said:
The difference is that the iPod was introduced early enough into the category that it could define what features people could expect, here the iPhone is attempting to redefine what a cell phone already is.
To use terrible buzzwords, an FM radio is a "nice to have." Time will only tell if the things Apple's left out - the ability to make your own ringtones, no MMS, no IM, no video recording, despite their claims a lack of "real" Internet browsing, and non-user-replaceable batteries (Hey, some of us like to hold onto phones for awhile) - will help or hinder the thing.
The battery issue is, in particular, an odd design choice. Sending in an iPod to have a battery swap done is one thing; it's just a music player. But a phone is, well, a phone. Apple can't expect everyone to have a spare GSM phone lying around to use while they process and return your iPhone. Some manufacturers also offer high-capacity batteries for people who want more talk time; and while it may surprise some around here, there are people who do, in fact, buy them.
SuperPac said:
Read the Slashdot opinion the day it was released, October 23rd, 2001.
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/1816257
Big complaints are the durability of a hard drive, price, no wi-fi and the UI was very basic. Nothing was a deal-breaker outside of price.
Hell, there was like only 2 other hard drive mp3 players on the market. It was almost a guaranteed victory for a small well-designed device.
Shogmaster
Member
mrklaw said:
That worked great when they were establishing the rules for the HDD MP3 player market, but this is Apple walking into an already well established market of smartphones. They did iPhone way too late if they wanted to set the rules. You can't make people forget features they already enjoy in the "lesser" products in the market that came out before.
edit: little late. xsarien beat me to the punch.
Humphrey Bogart
Banned
Shogmaster said:
Shogmaster said:
Shogmaster said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6854064&postcount=1185
for those of you who want to feed crow in a few months.
A few things...
A) Don't defend EDGE. EDGE makes baby Jesus cry. Lack of UMTS support on the iPhone is not a defendable point, and EDGE is *not* acceptable for data transmission in this modern world. Ten years ago you'd have an argument, but not today. Browsing the web over edge without WAP access will be almost useless until AT&T seriously upgrades their network.
B) AT&T does *not* have an HSDPA network. It is UMTS. That said, UMTS absolutely kicks the crap out of EDGE, as anyone upgrading from an 8125 to an 8525 can attest. Those with an AT&T 3G Phone can verify, that U for high speed = UMTS, if it's HSDPA, it'll show up with an H, and EDGE will show up with an E. I guarantee you'll feel the difference in speed between all three.
C) iPhone will be easier to use than you imagine, and will have better support than you imagine.
D) There are already a few hacks in the work that will greatly enhance the usability of the iPhone, far beyond what Apple and AT&T currently want.
A) Don't defend EDGE. EDGE makes baby Jesus cry. Lack of UMTS support on the iPhone is not a defendable point, and EDGE is *not* acceptable for data transmission in this modern world. Ten years ago you'd have an argument, but not today. Browsing the web over edge without WAP access will be almost useless until AT&T seriously upgrades their network.
B) AT&T does *not* have an HSDPA network. It is UMTS. That said, UMTS absolutely kicks the crap out of EDGE, as anyone upgrading from an 8125 to an 8525 can attest. Those with an AT&T 3G Phone can verify, that U for high speed = UMTS, if it's HSDPA, it'll show up with an H, and EDGE will show up with an E. I guarantee you'll feel the difference in speed between all three.
C) iPhone will be easier to use than you imagine, and will have better support than you imagine.
D) There are already a few hacks in the work that will greatly enhance the usability of the iPhone, far beyond what Apple and AT&T currently want.
Humphrey Bogart said:
I'm not doubting that people will lap it up. Apple have shown that they can offer less features but wrapped in a great UI and people will love it.
But that doesn't stop it being a limited device. The two aren't mutually exclusive. No crow will be eaten if (when) it flys off the shelves because people frankly won't be buying it for the features.
Humphrey Bogart
Banned
i um...think that's the point.mrklaw said:
it's like Bill said to Steve that one time. it was something along the lines of "It doesn't matter anymore, it's not about that."
Shogmaster
Member
Let me fill you in on something: Smartphones are mostly about emails and texting. Those are the people willing to spend the big money on the plans and keep them, because their work or business depends on them. iPhone won't be competing in that market because it can't. Apple will make money on the device fine, but AT&T won't make money because the profit from the plans will be moderate (because people will go for the minimum), and they are subsidizing the cost of the phone and payed Apple for the exclusivity to boot.Humphrey Bogart said:
My prediction is that, above eventualities will make AT&T's relationship with Apple sour, and no one else will be willing to do business with Apple until they make some fundamental fixes to the device.
Humphrey Bogart
Banned
you don't get it shogmaster... that doesn't matter.
Humphrey Bogart
Banned
yeah, it's a shame the phones software can't be updated what so ever.
why do i even argue? i can't afford one anyways... oh that's right, the facts.
why do i even argue? i can't afford one anyways... oh that's right, the facts.
Shogmaster
Member
Humphrey Bogart said:
Sure it does. It's the nature of the phone business in the States. You subsidize the device for the plans which drives most of the profit. Apple is in the hardware and software business, not service plan business. They are selling closed off device. The only real profit for them is from the profit from the device, but that's not where the real money is.
AT&T is desperate for big marketing cache so pull the trigger on the gamble of iPhone. It's not a gamble for Apple, because they will make profit for every device sold, but that's far from the case for AT&T. They are hoping that the hype of the device will drive more subscribers, but they definitely are not confident about it's usability (hence the 2 year commitment, even though you can't use the device with any other provider).
iPhone will be a successful product for Apple in that it will make them money. But don't expect the iPhone to take over the smartphone world like iPod took over the MP3 player world. it's just too late and too flawed for the target market.
Space Adventure
Banned
shogmaster, just go line up with Whiteman already.
It's iPhone 1.0. Trust me the asian version or the 2.0 will have all the bells and whistles. 4G full broadband ready and 5-8MP phone with video chatting and IM. All the problems will be solved once they try to crack the Asian market. Asia will not put up with bullshit 2.5G. And since the Asian market is a lot bigger than the US market it will either upgrade or burnout. The LG Prada is 3.5G and what $200 less.Shogmaster said:
Humphrey Bogart
Banned
SOFTWARE.M3wThr33 said:
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