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[Blackhead]

when you buy the phone they will add iphone data to the line you upgraded, just take the sim card out and put yours in after you leave, put that new sim in the phone it replaced, wait 24 hours and call at&t or go online and remove the iphone data from the upgraded line

Thanks, if it doesn't work I'll just return the phone.

Does the copy&paste in 3.0 have a stack of recently copied items? If not, I'll probably keep Clippy installed.

 

[jonnybryce]

how does the bing cashback work? i think i wanna get a 3gs (I have a 8gb & 16gb 2g i can sell to make up for the cost). and how much are cancellation fees with AT&T?

I believe they keep track of how much cashback you've earned and you can request a check as long as it's over $5 in value, I believe. So it's a check.

 

[LCfiner]

Thanks, if it doesn't work I'll just return the phone.

Does the copy&paste in 3.0 have a stack of recently copied items? If not, I'll probably keep Clippy installed.

nope, one item (or a single group of photos) at a time

 

[Mamesj]

I do get what you mean, and , hey it would be nice to be able to distinguish, but again, I draw the parallel to their Macs. You say the situation is different, and for sure, they are, but my point is, in this regard, does it matter? A lot of the Macs aare difficult to distinguish outside of actual physical features such as an iSight camera, an extra slot or whatever.

true that they're tough to distinguish (and no, def doesn't matter.) Everyone thinks my macbook aluminum is a macbook air, since it's already lighter and thinner than the plastic mac and most laptop PCs.

 

[aparisi2274]

Hey I have QQ about the 3GS. I have seen in a few posts in this thread (more recently) that when MMS goes live at the end of the summer AT&T is going to charge for that. Is that 100% accurate? or are we speculating?

I mean doesn't it go against their own ToS if they sign you up for a 2yr contract on the new 3Gs phone using the current 3G pricing model and then at the end of the sumemr they just come out and say "hey btw, we are charging you more because MMS came out" At that point people could cancel their contract without the ETF because the change of ToS was not approved by the users. I did that when I got out of my verizon contract 8-mos early. They had made a change to their ToS and when I called to cancel and the rep was telling me about the $175 ETF I said well you also changed your ToS and did not get approval from your users... She just closed out my account and never brough up the ETF again.

Anyway, I digress. Do we know for sure if AT&T is going to charge for MMS? If they are that is some big bullshit on their part, since almost every one of their other phones they sell has MMS capabilities and its built into the data-plan.

Thanks!

 

[Keylime]

true. Everyone thinks my macbook aluminum is a macbook air, since it's already lighter and thinner than the plastic mac and most laptop PCs.

Those people would probably lose their shit if they actually saw an Air if they thought the unibodies were them :lol

 

[Keylime]

Hey I have QQ about the 3GS. I have seen in a few posts in this thread (more recently) that when MMS goes live at the end of the summer AT&T is going to charge for that. Is that 100% accurate? or are we speculating?

Speculation on my part, I haven't heard anything about charging for MMS, but tethering I'm almost positive they intend to charge for.

 

[SnakeXs]

Thanks dallow.

 

[dallow_bg]

Thanks dallow.

Huzzah!

 

[aparisi2274]

Speculation on my part, I haven't heard anything about charging for MMS, but tethering I'm almost positive they intend to charge for.

Well I could see tethering. I mean don't most other companies charge some kind of fee for tethering?

MMS though, that's just a fancy txt message. Also, I would assume they would announce a new pricing structure since they are taking preorders already.

 

[Battlezone]

Thanks dallow.

What the holy hell. What am I doing wrong? I still can't get to that link.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

Ugh..

So I went to go look at 3G coverage maps for AT&T and then I went to go look at Verizon who I'm leaving..

It still makes me sick to my stomach.. on how AT&T's 3G network is so small. AT&T has cruddy service coverage and they have amazing hardware while Verizon has horrible hardware but amazing coverage..

Yellow = Verizon
Orange = AT&T & Verizon overlap
Red = AT&T only

 

[aparisi2274]

Ugh..

So I went to go look at 3G coverage maps for AT&T and then I went to go look at Verizon who I'm leaving..

It still makes me sick to my stomach.. on how AT&T's 3G network is so small. AT&T has cruddy service coverage and they have amazing hardware while Verizon has horrible hardware but amazing coverage..

Yellow = Verizon
Orange = AT&T & Verizon overlap
Red = AT&T only

I know how you feel. I was a Verizon wireless subscriber for many a year and when the original iPhone came out I switched to AT&T because I wanted the iPhone. I have to say though when it comes to signal strength I seem to get better receiption with AT&T than I did with verizon (this is over Edge though, since I am not on a 3G phone yet). However when I look at the 3G map you just posted I too shed a tear at how immense Verizon's 3G is compared to AT&T

 

[Juice]

Ugh..

So I went to go look at 3G coverage maps for AT&T and then I went to go look at Verizon who I'm leaving..

It still makes me sick to my stomach.. on how AT&T's 3G network is so small. AT&T has cruddy service coverage and they have amazing hardware while Verizon has horrible hardware but amazing coverage..

Yellow = Verizon
Orange = AT&T & Verizon overlap
Red = AT&T only

Indeed. When I drive from Columbus to Ann Arbor, there's about a hundred mile stretch where I don't get ANY cell coverage, literally "no service".

I take pity on the people in all those towns. It's like the kids can only dream, "someday I'll move out of this town so that I can use an iPhone"

 

[sykoex]

Indeed. When I drive from Columbus to Ann Arbor, there's about a hundred mile stretch where I don't get ANY cell coverage, literally "no service".

I take pity on the people in all those towns. It's like the kids can only dream, "someday I'll move out of this town so that I can use an iPhone"

Either that or there's a deep seeded resentment of Apple in those towns.

 

[Blackhead]

:O that map should make AT&T very concerned.

AT&T has 48 hours to answer iPhone pricing complaints, says crisis expert

AT&T has 24 to 48 hours to answer the rising tide of complaints from iPhone owners who are furious over its pricing policy for the new iPhone 3G S, a crisis communications expert said today.

"It's time for AT&T to step forward and be an industry leader," said Dallas Lawrence, vice president of digital media at Washington, D.C.-based Levick Strategic Communications. "The next 48 hours will be very telling. AT&T needs to embrace the message, to acknowledge a mistake's been made, and to make things good."

Lawrence was referring to the growing online campaign on Twitter and elsewhere by iPhone owners angry over AT&T's plan to charge an additional $200 to upgrade to the iPhone 3G S if they haven't fulfilled most or all of their two-year contract with the carrier. More than 8,000 people have "signed" a Twitter petition calling on AT&T to sell the new iPhone to current users for the same $199 and $299 prices it charges new subscribers.

The number of names on the Twitter petition has nearly doubled over the past 24 hours.

"AT&T has the opportunity to turn a potential negative into a positive," said Lawrence, who has managed crisis communications for a large number of public and government clients. In 2003, he served as the spokesman for Ambassador L. Paul Bremer and the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq in the aftermath of the U.S. invasion.

"They should forget the immediate gratification [of higher revenue] and invest in the longer term to keep iPhone users," he said.

In his view, AT&T has a very small window to react to the online criticism. "The community will only get angrier and angrier," Lawrence said. "If AT&T acts fast, it will make the decision on its own, but past that 24-to-48-hour tipping point, it will look like they've been forced into it."

If AT&T were his client, Lawrence said, he would urge the company to immediately own up to its error and tell all iPhone owners that they can upgrade to the iPhone 3G S as soon as it's available, for $199 or $299.

"And they should say they will do that for every iPhone that Apple launches, because they want the iPhone users to be part of the AT&T family for life," said Lawrence. "That would be the type of statement that would be leading -- outside the industry norm -- and would let iPhone users know they can make a commitment to AT&T because AT&T has made a commitment to them."

AT&T's motivation to make such a move, said Lawrence, is self-serving. "Apple may open the iPhone to other networks in the U.S. within the next year," he said, referring to reports that Apple and AT&T are negotiating an extension to the latter's three-year contract as the exclusive carrier for the smartphone in the United States. "AT&T has a limited window to build their brand while they have a captive audience," Lawrence said. "What it doesn't want is to force Apple to make a decision based on this crisis."

Continued complaints by die-hard iPhone fans about AT&T might push Apple to do exactly that. "There are a couple of options before Apple," said Lawrence. "They can speed up the process of opening the iPhone to other networks, or they can make an public announcement to that effect." Either choice, but especially the latter, would put enormous pressure on AT&T to concede, or face the likelihood that Apple will abandon the carrier and shift the iPhone to a rival, such as Verizon, Sprint or T-Mobile.

"AT&T does not win here if it lets tens of thousands of consumers force Apple's hand," Lawrence added.

Some have argued that even that though thousands of customers have signed the Twitter petition, that's just a drop in the bucket -- a very small drop -- compared with the total number of iPhone owners. But Lawrence disagreed. "Those 8,000 probably represent 50,000 to 60,000 people who are not engaged online," he said. "Even if it's only 8,000, these are the most loyal users and the best potential brand ambassadors you could ask for."

On top of that, AT&T would win an amazing amount of goodwill by surprising the complainers with a turn-around, Lawrence argued. "These fans have little expectation that AT&T will change," he said. "But AT&T has a chance to turn all this attention around and co-opt them into being brand ambassadors."

But what will AT&T do? Lawrence admitted that clients don't always take his advice. Those firms that successfully handle a crisis generated by online opinion are usually those that exhibit "decisive leadership traits," he said. "Apple has that built in. They're a company that's designed to respond to their customers quickly.

"AT&T would be very wise to take a page out of Apple's book," Lawrence added.

Spoiler

Bet he bought his iPhone last year ;p

 

[jonnybryce]

I still don't get why iPhone users feel entitled to the same price as a new customer. You signed a contract, you know the rules. It's something extra that would be nice of AT&T to do but I don't see why it logically should be expected.

AdAge took the opposing side

http://adage.com/article?article_id=137220
Ignore the backlash?
But in the end, the question might be: Are marketers taking social-media backlashes too seriously? Marc Hausman , president-CEO of Strategic Communications Group, said AT&T should just suck it up because 90% of what's produced in social media is put up by 10% of the participants. Mr. Hausman said he suspects AT&T is hoping the outcry will run its course and blow over. Indeed, AT&T is likely more concerned about signing up new iPhone subscribers.

"Companies like AT&T need to be sensitive to customer feedback. But regardless of what people are saying in social media, the question is: Is the product moving?" Mr. Hausman said. "If it is, there's no value for AT&T to explain anything about costs or subsidies to its customers."

 

[Futureman]

I still don't get why iPhone users feel entitled to the same price as a new customer. You signed a contract, you know the rules. It's something extra that would be nice of AT&T to do but I don't see why it logically should be expected.

Honestly. People are such little whiny babies.

WAH WAH WAH I DON'T GET THE NEW IPHONE FOR THE PRICE I WANT?!?! WAH WAH WAH

Suck it up. You signed a contract and knew the terms going in.

 

[suffah]

I still don't get why iPhone users feel entitled to the same price as a new customer. You signed a contract, you know the rules. It's something extra that would be nice of AT&T to do but I don't see why it logically should be expected.

AdAge took the opposing side

EXACTLY. You signed a TWO-YEAR contract, what the hell do you expect. Next time, don't sign a contract and pay $600 for a phone.

 

[Tobor]

I still don't get why iPhone users feel entitled to the same price as a new customer. You signed a contract, you know the rules. It's something extra that would be nice of AT&T to do but I don't see why it logically should be expected.

AdAge took the opposing side

I assume they thought Apple would protect them somehow, like the Apple logo itself is a talisman warding off the AT&T demons.

I was a little shocked at people stupidly assuming they would get a discount every year, but whatever.

 

[Keylime]

I still don't get why iPhone users feel entitled to the same price as a new customer. You signed a contract, you know the rules. It's something extra that would be nice of AT&T to do but I don't see why it logically should be expected.

AdAge took the opposing side

AT&T needs to keep people happy or they are going to lose their customer base the moment a new carrier gets access.

You don't keep people liking your product by not making them happy, and as the first article points out, the 8,000 or so people signing the petition likely represent a much larger number of people.

...long story short AT&T blows donkey balls because they just do.

Edit: Completely agree with the "you signed it, deal with it" side of things, but AT&T isn't going to be exclusive for long, and the moment they're not, me and likely tons of others will be leaving.

 

[StrikerObi]

:O that map should make AT&T very concerned.

AT&T has 48 hours to answer iPhone pricing complaints, says crisis expert

Spoiler

Bet he bought his iPhone last year ;p

This guy makes some good points regarding AT&T bumbling of basically everything, but I still don't think iPhone 3G owners are entitled to the same price as out-of-contract phone owners just because they are upgrading to a new version of the same phone. That's crazy. For example, when Motorola upgrades the RAZR you don't see RAZR owners flipping out about having to pay out the ass for a new one, do you? (I know the RAZR is a piece of crap, and that's why owners don't flip out, but I just picked it randomly since it was so crazy popular a few years ago.)

The rest of the article is spot-on through. AT&T has fucked this thing so hard. I will be shocked if Apple extends the deal with them. Look at all this shit:

• Not alloying ANY line discounts on the Original iPhone's plan because they had to cede $10/month off every bill to Apple. It's not the consumer's fault Apple took them for that crazy ride, but the consumer gets stiffed anyway.
  
• Going from $20 unlimited data and 200 txt on iPhone OG to $30 unlimited data and 0 txt on 3G (bullshit considering that SMS is a type of DATA and should be unlimited to begin with).
  
• Not alloying things like SlingPlayer over 3G on iPhone because it will eat up too much bandwidth, despite the fact that A) you are paying for "unlimited" data and B) they allow this exact same fucking application on BlackBerry phones over 3G. This is just one example of their segregation of iPhone owners. If you want to offer a phone that does everything on your network, you can't pussy-foot around and start yanking features that eat up your precious bandwidth. Evolve or die.
  
• The whole MMS thing. Really? It takes a couple months to implement a decade old technology on the world's most advanced smart phone? They knew it was coming, how on earth didn't they prepare for it?
  
• Tethering. They knew this was coming as well. Nobody expected tethering to just be included with their unlimited data plan, and if they did they are living in a Fairy Tale land. However, the lack of them even having a plan ready to announce at WWDC is mind-boggling. At least they had an explanation for MMS (however weak it was).
  
• Their pricing scheme has slowly gone from a decent deal to completely out of whack compared to the competition. Their rivals have slowly introduced phones almost as or as capable as an iPhone with occasionally more advanced features and cheaper rate plans.
  
• 7.2Mbps 3G - It works on the iPhone 3GS, but not on AT&T because they don't offer 7.2Mbps coverage anywhere in America. They're starting to roll it out which means you might be lucky to have it by year's end if you live in New York or LA (cross your fingers Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, and all of America's other 2nd tier cities).

It's just a cavalcade of awful service with no escape no matter where you turn. And the kicker is that I'm pretty sure they honestly think they are in the power position here. How they don't realize that Apple has them by the balls is beyond me. If they honestly think they can keep customers when the iPhone becomes available (or completely jumps ship to) another network is beyond my realm of comprehension. I'll be kissing them goodbye the moment it's possible. People don't shop for phone networks. They shop for PHONES. The network is a secondary consideration. Once you pick the phone you want, you go with the best network available (which isn't AT&T unless they are the only option).

I could probably dig up even more boneheaded AT&T decisions if I wanted. All of the ones on that list came off the top of my head. What does that say, that I could think of SEVEN fuck-ups without doing any research?

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

AT&T needs to keep people happy or they are going to lose their customer base the moment a new carrier gets access.

You don't keep people liking your product by not making them happy, and as the first article points out, the 8,000 or so people signing the petition likely represent a much larger number of people.

...long story short AT&T blows donkey balls because they just do.

Edit: Completely agree with the "you signed it, deal with it" side of things, but AT&T isn't going to be exclusive for long, and the moment they're not, me and likely tons of others will be leaving.

So should AT&T just swallow the amount of money they lose on the subsidized phones that they shelled out for last year just to make these whiners happy and give them their fix this year? Do they then do it again next year? They have to make their money back on the subsidized phone at some point.

 

[Jugendstil]

This guy makes some good points regarding AT&T bumbling of basically everything, but I still don't think iPhone 3G owners are entitled to the same price as out-of-contract phone owners just because they are upgrading to a new version of the same phone. That's crazy. For example, when Motorola upgrades the RAZR you don't see RAZR owners flipping out about having to pay out the ass for a new one, do you? (I know the RAZR is a piece of crap, and that's why owners don't flip out, but I just picked it randomly since it was so crazy popular a few years ago.)

The rest of the article is spot-on through. AT&T has fucked this thing so hard. I will be shocked if Apple extends the deal with them. Look at all this shit:

• Not alloying ANY line discounts on the Original iPhone's plan because they had to cede $10/month off every bill to Apple. It's not the consumer's fault Apple took them for that crazy ride, but the consumer gets stiffed anyway.
  
• Going from $20 unlimited data and 200 txt on iPhone OG to $30 unlimited data and 0 txt on 3G (bullshit considering that SMS is a type of DATA and should be unlimited to begin with).
  
• Not alloying things like SlingPlayer over 3G on iPhone because it will eat up too much bandwidth, despite the fact that A) you are paying for "unlimited" data and B) they allow this exact same fucking application on BlackBerry phones over 3G. This is just one example of their segregation of iPhone owners. If you want to offer a phone that does everything on your network, you can't pussy-foot around and start yanking features that eat up your precious bandwidth. Evolve or die.
  
• The whole MMS thing. Really? It takes a couple months to implement a decade old technology on the world's most advanced smart phone? They knew it was coming, how on earth didn't they prepare for it?
  
• Tethering. They knew this was coming as well. Nobody expected tethering to just be included with their unlimited data plan, and if they did they are living in a Fairy Tale land. However, the lack of them even having a plan ready to announce at WWDC is mind-boggling. At least they had an explanation for MMS (however weak it was).
  
• Their pricing scheme has slowly gone from a decent deal to completely out of whack compared to the competition. Their rivals have slowly introduced phones almost as or as capable as an iPhone with occasionally more advanced features and cheaper rate plans.
  
• 7.2Mbps 3G - It works on the iPhone 3GS, but not on AT&T because they don't offer 7.2Mbps coverage anywhere in America. They're starting to roll it out which means you might be lucky to have it by year's end if you live in New York or LA (cross your fingers Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, and all of America's other 2nd tier cities).

It's just a cavalcade of awful service with no escape no matter where you turn. And the kicker is that I'm pretty sure they honestly think they are in the power position here. How they don't realize that Apple has them by the balls is beyond me. If they honestly think they can keep customers when the iPhone becomes available (or completely jumps ship to) another network is beyond my realm of comprehension. I'll be kissing them goodbye the moment it's possible. People don't shop for phone networks. They shop for PHONES. The network is a secondary consideration. Once you pick the phone you want, you go with the best network available (which isn't AT&T unless they are the only option).

Totally 100% agree with this post. It seems bizarre to me that people don't understand the way cellphone contracts work in the US - did most of these people not have cellphones before the iPhone? People need to be complaining and sending petitions to AT&T about what really matters, which you outlined in all of your points above, not stupid crap like getting a discounted phone.

Just as you stated, the phone is what matters to most people, not the network. No one on Earth has brand loyalty to friggin' AT&T. I jumped ship from T-Mobile so I could get the iPhone, even though my T-Mobile bill was ridiculously cheap by comparison and the service was more reliable. That said, I love my iPhone, but that's in spite of AT&T. As far as I can tell they only impede the use of the phone instead of enhance it. At this point I am ready to go any other carrier (Sprint, TMo, Verizon) the minute they get the iPhone. And if that doesn't happen in the next six months or year (and I know it probably won't), I'll consider going with an Android phone or the next revision of the Pre.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

I honestly don't think AT&T subscribers don't know how badly they are getting screwed out of 3G by AT&T who is suppose to be a juggernaut in the wireless business with Verizon.

The difference in 3G networks is just ginormous. Its cool they are raising the bar to 7.2mbps for users but man.. how about working on expanding as well? :lol

 

[Keylime]

So should AT&T just swallow the amount of money they lose on the subsidized phones that they shelled out for last year just to make these whiners happy and give them their fix this year? Do they then do it again next year? They have to make their money back on the subsidized phone at some point.

I don't know, I'm not AT&T and I'd never like to be.

All I know is that they're going to lose a shit-ton of people the moment there is another option out there if they keep being idiots (see Striker's post above).

 

[StrikerObi]

I honestly don't think AT&T subscribers don't know how badly they are getting screwed out of 3G by AT&T who is suppose to be a juggernaut in the wireless business with Verizon.

The difference in 3G networks is just ginormous. Its cool they are raising the bar to 7.2mbps for users but man.. how about working on expanding as well? :lol

Right, who cares if you can get 7.2Mbps in New York City when you are stuck on EDGE in 80% of the country (as that map implies). Honestly, if you live in a major city it doesn't matter who your carrier is because you are going to get good reception and fast speeds. The majors cities get everything. Suburbs get most of it, and the rest of the country better be on Verizon or they're pretty much screwed.

 

[Corwood Rep]

I honestly don't think AT&T subscribers don't know how badly they are getting screwed out of 3G by AT&T who is suppose to be a juggernaut in the wireless business with Verizon.

The difference in 3G networks is just ginormous. Its cool they are raising the bar to 7.2mbps for users but man.. how about working on expanding as well? :lol

See, this is part of why maybe it's okay to bitch about them not giving everybody an iPhone subsidy again. I think AT&T should continue subsidizing iPhone owners as long as they're making them pay comparable 3G rates to people who actually get 3G service on Verizon, or hell, even comparable service period. I pay the same amount of money as a Verizon customer, and at least in California, Verizon is better at everything everywhere by orders of magnitude.

AT&T should be kissing my ass 24/7 to not make me switch providers as soon as my contract is up if they have any interest in honesty about how shitty their network is.

 

[Battlezone]

I assume they thought Apple would protect them somehow, like the Apple logo itself is a talisman warding off the AT&T demons.

I was a little shocked at people stupidly assuming they would get a discount every year, but whatever.

The can of worms was opened last year when they let people upgrade for the subsidized price. People either don't see or don't care about the difference between unsubsidized price and price with contract. They just sharpen see that they got a discounted iPhone last year, see that they don't get it THIS year, and sharpen their pitchforks.

AT&T is screwed either way. Those 8k people are people who are loyal to Apple, not AT&T. So when Verizon gets the Super Mega iPhone 3G Pro Turbo next year, the horde is going to switch to Verizon...even if AT&T relents and let people upgrade for the subsidized price this year.

Edit: beaten so very badly by Striker)

 

[aparisi2274]

This guy makes some good points regarding AT&T bumbling of basically everything, but I still don't think iPhone 3G owners are entitled to the same price as out-of-contract phone owners just because they are upgrading to a new version of the same phone. That's crazy. For example, when Motorola upgrades the RAZR you don't see RAZR owners flipping out about having to pay out the ass for a new one, do you? (I know the RAZR is a piece of crap, and that's why owners don't flip out, but I just picked it randomly since it was so crazy popular a few years ago.)

The rest of the article is spot-on through. AT&T has fucked this thing so hard. I will be shocked if Apple extends the deal with them. Look at all this shit:

• Not alloying ANY line discounts on the Original iPhone's plan because they had to cede $10/month off every bill to Apple. It's not the consumer's fault Apple took them for that crazy ride, but the consumer gets stiffed anyway.
  
• Going from $20 unlimited data and 200 txt on iPhone OG to $30 unlimited data and 0 txt on 3G (bullshit considering that SMS is a type of DATA and should be unlimited to begin with).
  
• Not alloying things like SlingPlayer over 3G on iPhone because it will eat up too much bandwidth, despite the fact that A) you are paying for "unlimited" data and B) they allow this exact same fucking application on BlackBerry phones over 3G. This is just one example of their segregation of iPhone owners. If you want to offer a phone that does everything on your network, you can't pussy-foot around and start yanking features that eat up your precious bandwidth. Evolve or die.
  
• The whole MMS thing. Really? It takes a couple months to implement a decade old technology on the world's most advanced smart phone? They knew it was coming, how on earth didn't they prepare for it?
  
• Tethering. They knew this was coming as well. Nobody expected tethering to just be included with their unlimited data plan, and if they did they are living in a Fairy Tale land. However, the lack of them even having a plan ready to announce at WWDC is mind-boggling. At least they had an explanation for MMS (however weak it was).
  
• Their pricing scheme has slowly gone from a decent deal to completely out of whack compared to the competition. Their rivals have slowly introduced phones almost as or as capable as an iPhone with occasionally more advanced features and cheaper rate plans.
  
• 7.2Mbps 3G - It works on the iPhone 3GS, but not on AT&T because they don't offer 7.2Mbps coverage anywhere in America. They're starting to roll it out which means you might be lucky to have it by year's end if you live in New York or LA (cross your fingers Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, and all of America's other 2nd tier cities).

It's just a cavalcade of awful service with no escape no matter where you turn. And the kicker is that I'm pretty sure they honestly think they are in the power position here. How they don't realize that Apple has them by the balls is beyond me. If they honestly think they can keep customers when the iPhone becomes available (or completely jumps ship to) another network is beyond my realm of comprehension. I'll be kissing them goodbye the moment it's possible. People don't shop for phone networks. They shop for PHONES. The network is a secondary consideration. Once you pick the phone you want, you go with the best network available (which isn't AT&T unless they are the only option).

Great Post!!! Everything you touched on is all the reasons why I am still hesitant to get the 3Gs.

When I was on verizon I was paying close to $80 a month for a RAZR phone. When the iPhone came out and I saw the plans I could get with AT&T I made the jump. I mean I pay $83 now for the original iPhone with unlimited Data and 1500txt a month with the 450min + 5000N&W. When the 3G came out all of a sudden AT&T got some brass balls and decided to jack the price up on the data and SMS rates (SMS rates is a joke in itself. I think it costs these companies like $.2 a txt message). So I held off on the 3G because my bill would have jumped from $83 to $97 (and that's with me keeping the same exact plan I have now). There is no way I was going to pay for that upgrade when the 3G phone was still missing a lot of critical features.

Flash forward to last week and the introduction to 3Gs. Finally it has all the --well most of the-- things we should have had in the iPhone from the start and AT&T can't even have the biggest feature MMS ready when the phone launches?? Especially since they knew it was going to be included when Apple introduced it back in January.

Anyway, I am going to play the waiting game right now. If AT&T continually drops the ball with regards to their iPhone customers, then hopefully Apple will shift over to Verizon. If that happens, and if Verizon doesn't bork it up with putting their own GUI on it, then I would go back to Verizon.

If AT&T does right by its iPhone users, then I'll upgrade.

 

[jonnybryce]

As for it's small USA 3G coverage, I don't think a lot of the customers care. I live in New York, and I care about New York. If I get good 3G here then that's fine. I don't travel enough for 3G coverage around the USA to matter at all to me.

AT&T needs to keep people happy or they are going to lose their customer base the moment a new carrier gets access.

You don't keep people liking your product by not making them happy, and as the first article points out, the 8,000 or so people signing the petition likely represent a much larger number of people.

...long story short AT&T blows donkey balls because they just do.

Edit: Completely agree with the "you signed it, deal with it" side of things, but AT&T isn't going to be exclusive for long, and the moment they're not, me and likely tons of others will be leaving.

AT&T is going to lose tons of customers the moment another carrier gets an iPhone, it's a fact. That's because there are people who are fed up, and there are people who only joined AT&T for an iPhone and left their favorites behind. I'm with the "happy customer will be loyal" mentality, but I wonder if paying up to subsidize everyone's iPhones will really be worth it financially for AT&T. I feel like they must have worked with those numbers and decided it isn't.

If AT&T would like to make people happy they can drop the $20/month for unlimited texting nonsense and either include it in the $30 data plan or make it an add on for $5. That's the real bullshit they should work on. If they even think they can get away with charging more for MMS then it's going to be hell on earth for them. This subsidy issue? Not so much.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I don't know, I'm not AT&T and I'd never like to be.

All I know is that they're going to lose a shit-ton of people the moment there is another option out there if they keep being idiots (see Striker's post above).

I don't disagree with Striker's points above, but giving out another subsidy doesn't make sense in any way shape or form for AT&T. They need to address those issues, and some of them will be addressed eventually, but buyers of the 3G last year need to quit their crying about the price to upgrade this year.

And I personally don't expect an iPhone on Verizon until 4G is rolled out and the same cell system is universal. Apple doesn't really want to manufacture two phones if they can help it, and that isn't likely to happen until 2011 at the earliest.

 

[StrikerObi]

When I was on verizon I was paying close to $80 a month for a RAZR phone. When the iPhone came out and I saw the plans I could get with AT&T I made the jump. I mean I pay $83 now for the original iPhone with unlimited Data and 1500txt a month with the 450min + 5000N&W. When the 3G came out all of a sudden AT&T got some brass balls and decided to jack the price up on the data and SMS rates (SMS rates is a joke in itself. I think it costs these companies like $.2 a txt message). So I held off on the 3G because my bill would have jumped from $83 to $97 (and that's with me keeping the same exact plan I have now). There is no way I was going to pay for that upgrade when the 3G phone was still missing a lot of critical features.

I'm in the same boat with the rate plan going up, but on the bright side I qualify for a 15% discount since I work for the state of Florida. A discount that I CAN'T apply to my iPhone plan because Apple gets $10/month of that plan from AT&T. The price hike and the now-applicable discount should about cancel each other out.

Do some more research on SMS. It doesn't cost companies 20 (or even 2) cents to send an SMS message. It costs them nothing. Literally.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/business/28digi.html?_r=4&partner=rss&emc=rss

Basically, SMS messages ride in a "carrier channel" that has to be there already. The networks are already paying for it regardless of whether you send SMS messages. So they charge you to send a message over a channel that they are forced to pay for. The cost they pay to use the channel is fixed. It's the same if 0 or 1 billion messages go across it.

Imagine a free public transit system. The government is fronting the cost of the entire system, so it's paid for. Anybody can ride the bus for free. All of the sudden, new people start riding the bus, let's make them teenagers. They can't drive cars, so the transit company decides to take advantage of them because they NEED the bus system to get around town. They charge them $1 to ride the bus, despite the fact that the bus was already taking that route whether they were on it or not.

It's packet discrimination, and ought to be illegal but congress is dragging it's ass on anything related to net-neutrality because the telco and internet companies are lobbying their asses off to let them discriminate against packets.

 

[Keylime]

I don't disagree with Striker's points above, but giving out another subsidy doesn't make sense in any way shape or form for AT&T. They need to address those issues, and some of them will be addressed eventually, but buyers of the 3G last year need to quit their crying about the price to upgrade this year.

And I personally don't expect an iPhone on Verizon until 4G is rolled out and the same cell system is universal. Apple doesn't really want to manufacture two phones if they can help it, and that isn't likely to happen until 2011 at the earliest.

I'm not asking for the subsidy this time around (I mentioned that I understand the contract thing), but I am saying that it's just another thing that AT&T is dropping the ball on on top of all the other shit they do.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I'm not asking for the subsidy this time around (I mentioned that I understand the contract thing), but I am saying that it's just another thing that AT&T is dropping the ball on on top of all the other shit they do.

I'm not understanding how they are dropping the ball on it. Sure, it's a bit of a PR hit, mostly because a lot of the customers don't have a clue about the business at all, but AT&T is doing nothing wrong, and the suggestion from some (not saying you) has been that they should just suck it up and give another subsidy just because their customers feel they are entitled. The iPhone is no different from any other phone in this regard, except for the fact that it is more highly coveted than any other phone out there.

 

[Keylime]

I'm not understanding how they are dropping the ball on it. Sure, it's a bit of a PR hit, mostly because a lot of the customers don't have a clue about the business at all, but AT&T is doing nothing wrong, and the suggestion from some (not saying you) has been that they should just suck it up and give another subsidy just because their customers feel they are entitled. The iPhone is no different from any other phone in this regard, except for the fact that it is more highly coveted than any other phone out there.

The ball dropping is more in subsidizing the phone the last time but not this time.

You could argue that it was a gift last time (it was), but it doesn't change the fact that they did it once, so why wouldn't they be expected to do it again? No one made them do it the first time.

To the average consumer (who you've said doesn't know anything about the business), they just see AT&T fucking them on yet another thing with their phone.

 

[Mamesj]

Ugh..

So I went to go look at 3G coverage maps for AT&T and then I went to go look at Verizon who I'm leaving..

It still makes me sick to my stomach.. on how AT&T's 3G network is so small. AT&T has cruddy service coverage and they have amazing hardware while Verizon has horrible hardware but amazing coverage..

*sad map is sad*

Yellow = Verizon
Orange = AT&T & Verizon overlap
Red = AT&T only

WOW! well, glad I'm grounded in Chicago for the next few years.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

The ball dropping is more in subsidizing the phone the last time but not this time.

You could argue that it was a gift last time (it was), but it doesn't change the fact that they did it once, so why wouldn't they be expected to do it again? No one made them do it the first time.

To the average consumer (who you've said doesn't know anything about the business), they just see AT&T fucking them on yet another thing with their phone.

But they ARE still subsidizing the phone. It's just that the people who purchased it last year are not eligible for an upgrade yet. The first year, the phone wasn't subsidized at all, which is why they WERE eligible for the upgrade price last year. It wasn't a gift at all. It was standard procedure in the cell phone industry. You are right though, no one made them do it. They chose to do it to sell more phones and gain more customers, and it worked very well.

I payed full price for the OG but didn't jump on the 3G last year, so I'm certainly getting the 3GS at the subsidized price this year. The average customer has to learn that AT&T isn't fucking them out of anything. The rules aren't different for the iPhone than they are for any other phone on the market in this regard. It's just that no one cared about upgrading from year to year in the past.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this, but I don't see this as being an issue with AT&T, just ignorant consumers who don't understand the contracts they are signing and how they work. Why anyone would think they were eligible for a subsidy again is beyond me, and it has never worked that way for any other phone in the past.

 

[Keylime]

I'm OK with what's going on, I just can't wait to leave

Ver-iPhone can't come soon enough!

 

[MrOctober]

Great Post!!! Everything you touched on is all the reasons why I am still hesitant to get the 3Gs.

When I was on verizon I was paying close to $80 a month for a RAZR phone. When the iPhone came out and I saw the plans I could get with AT&T I made the jump. I mean I pay $83 now for the original iPhone with unlimited Data and 1500txt a month with the 450min + 5000N&W. When the 3G came out all of a sudden AT&T got some brass balls and decided to jack the price up on the data and SMS rates (SMS rates is a joke in itself. I think it costs these companies like $.2 a txt message). So I held off on the 3G because my bill would have jumped from $83 to $97 (and that's with me keeping the same exact plan I have now). There is no way I was going to pay for that upgrade when the 3G phone was still missing a lot of critical features.

Flash forward to last week and the introduction to 3Gs. Finally it has all the --well most of the-- things we should have had in the iPhone from the start and AT&T can't even have the biggest feature MMS ready when the phone launches?? Especially since they knew it was going to be included when Apple introduced it back in January.

Anyway, I am going to play the waiting game right now. If AT&T continually drops the ball with regards to their iPhone customers, then hopefully Apple will shift over to Verizon. If that happens, and if Verizon doesn't bork it up with putting their own GUI on it, then I would go back to Verizon.

If AT&T does right by its iPhone users, then I'll upgrade.

Text messages don't actually cost the provider anything at all. They get piggy backed on a signal that is constantly coming and going so they eat up no additional bandwidth. Charging anything for them is basically a scam although they are a service provided so.

I don't actually get the AT&T coverage hate. I had Verizon for 8 years before I got my 3G and I hated it so much. I lost service all the time and none of my phones ever worked in my house. And I mean ever. I used to have to sit the phone on the corner of one particular coffee table just so it would ring and then when it did I would have to run into the other room and stand within 2 feet of the window or it would hang up. I pace when I talk so that was torture. Since I got my iPhone I've never had a call dropped and I get full service in my house and my friends dank ass bomb shelter basement, no other provider gets through down there.

The 3G coverage map I can see being a problem but I live in Boston and it's never been a problem for me evn when on vacation.

 

[ckohler]

Anybody's AT&T pre-order ship to their local store yet? I'm paranoid. After 24 hours, mine still says "In Progress".

 

[jonnybryce]

They do have plenty of time so I wouldn't worry yet.

 

[Phoenix]

A guy at work has a white one, and it does look very girly teen scene when he's using it. I almost got a white for the I AM SPECIAL factor, but am so glad I didn't.

I think some of you guys have some issues

 

[aparisi2274]

Text messages don't actually cost the provider anything at all. They get piggy backed on a signal that is constantly coming and going so they eat up no additional bandwidth. Charging anything for them is basically a scam although they are a service provided so.

I don't actually get the AT&T coverage hate. I had Verizon for 8 years before I got my 3G and I hated it so much. I lost service all the time and none of my phones ever worked in my house. And I mean ever. I used to have to sit the phone on the corner of one particular coffee table just so it would ring and then when it did I would have to run into the other room and stand within 2 feet of the window or it would hang up. I pace when I talk so that was torture. Since I got my iPhone I've never had a call dropped and I get full service in my house and my friends dank ass bomb shelter basement, no other provider gets through down there.

The 3G coverage map I can see being a problem but I live in Boston and it's never been a problem for me evn when on vacation.

Thanks for the clarification on the SMS rates guys...appreciate it!

As far as 3G, I am in NYC, so I know I can get good 3G. However I remember reading horror stories from NY'ers who upgraded to 3G last year, and they said that they could be on one side of B'way and get no 3G and cross the street and get full 3G. Either way I do not do a lot of internet surfing on the phone, so I don't even think I would be affected by 3G outages, but I still think AT&T needs to get their shit together...

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Very much looking forward to upgrading my first gen Edge model.

 

[Chris R]

:O that map should make AT&T very concerned.

AT&T isn't concerned about shit :lol As long as they have the iPhone locked up in exclusivity 3G coverage doesn't really matter to people who need to own an iPhone.

 

[Blackhead]

AT&T isn't concerned about shit :lol As long as they have the iPhone locked up in exclusivity 3G coverage doesn't really matter to people who need to own an iPhone.

:lol yeah They should have iPhones as a seperate category on their revenue balance sheet as they just got people by the balls.

The subsidy last ysar can't really be considered a gift as 3G jacked up rates put them ahead. Also AT&T have an early upgrade option. Why no offer that instead? Anyway nobody really expects them too - as the expert points out, it'd be a nice surprise - it's just a good PR move for them. Include MMS rates and they'd probably come ahead again

 

[mattiewheels]

i figured the new 3gs is such a small improvement over the 3g partly because apple didn't want to leave the people who got contracts with the 3g out in the cold. they want new customers or people whose original iphone contract is up, and expected 3g people to think, 'eh, got one that's pretty much the same'.

i don't know why people who have the 3g are uproaring about buying this new one, total babies.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

i figured the new 3gs is such a small improvement over the 3g partly because apple didn't want to leave the people who got contracts with the 3g out in the cold. they want new customers or people whose original iphone contract is up, and expected 3g people to think, 'eh, got one that's pretty much the same'.

i don't know why people who have the 3g are uproaring about buying this new one, total babies.

Because society is full of self involved twits who are quick to forget they signed a two year contract. Really, it's not difficult.

I really don't understand the need to upgrade phones every 6-12 months for some people.

3GS adds features I've wanted since iPhones debut, so I'm definitely in; but when Apple comes out with the 3GSlite or whatever next year, I'm not going to shit myself in public over it.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

So I preordered my iPhone in the AT&T store on 6/9. They gave me my order number and I can track it online and everything.

I got a pre-authorization charge of $215.00 on my account so in other words I'm out $215 for now which is fine.. makes sense..

Then this morning I look at my bank statement.. and I have ANOTHER $215.00 pre-auth charge..

So now I'm out $430.00 from my account.

What the fuck AT&T? Both are pre-auths just sitting on my account.

Argh.