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Iraqi forces using divining rods to find bombs (SMH)

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Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/world/middleeast/04sensors.html

BAGHDAD — Despite major bombings that have rattled the nation, and fears of rising violence as American troops withdraw, Iraq’s security forces have been relying on a device to detect bombs and weapons that the United States military and technical experts say is useless.

The small hand-held wand, with a telescopic antenna on a swivel, is being used at hundreds of checkpoints in Iraq. But the device works “on the same principle as a Ouija board” — the power of suggestion —
said a retired United States Air Force officer, Lt. Col. Hal Bidlack, who described the wand as nothing more than an explosives divining rod.

Still, the Iraqi government has purchased more than 1,500 of the devices, known as the ADE 651, at costs from $16,500 to $60,000 each. Nearly every police checkpoint, and many Iraqi military checkpoints, have one of the devices, which are now normally used in place of physical inspections of vehicles.

With violence dropping in the past two years, Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki has taken down blast walls along dozens of streets, and he contends that Iraqis will safeguard the nation as American troops leave.

But the recent bombings of government buildings here have underscored how precarious Iraq remains, especially with the coming parliamentary elections and the violence expected to accompany them.

The suicide bombers who managed to get two tons of explosives into downtown Baghdad on Oct. 25, killing 155 people and destroying three ministries, had to pass at least one checkpoint where the ADE 651 is typically deployed, judging from surveillance videos released by Baghdad’s provincial governor. The American military does not use the devices. “I don’t believe there’s a magic wand that can detect explosives,” said Maj. Gen. Richard J. Rowe Jr., who oversees Iraqi police training for the American military. “If there was, we would all be using it. I have no confidence that these work.”

The Iraqis, however, believe passionately in them. “Whether it’s magic or scientific, what I care about is it detects bombs,” said Maj. Gen. Jehad al-Jabiri, head of the Ministry of the Interior’s General Directorate for Combating Explosives.

Dale Murray, head of the National Explosive Engineering Sciences Security Center at Sandia Labs, which does testing for the Department of Defense, said the center had “tested several devices in this category, and none have ever performed better than random chance.”

The Justice Department has warned against buying a variety of products that claim to detect explosives at a distance with a portable device. Normal remote explosives detection machinery, often employed in airports, weighs tons and costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. The ADE 651’s clients are mostly in developing countries; no major country’s military or police force is a customer, according to the manufacturer.

“I don’t care about Sandia or the Department of Justice or any of them,” General Jabiri said. “I know more about this issue than the Americans do. In fact, I know more about bombs than anyone in the world.”

He attributed the decrease in bombings in Baghdad since 2007 to the use of the wands at checkpoints. American military officials credit the surge in American forces, as well as the Awakening movement, in which Iraqi insurgents turned against Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, for the decrease.

Aqeel al-Turaihi, the inspector general for the Ministry of the Interior, reported that the ministry bought 800 of the devices from a company called ATSC (UK) Ltd. for $32 million in 2008, and an unspecified larger quantity for $53 million. Mr. Turaihi said Iraqi officials paid up to $60,000 apiece, when the wands could be purchased for as little as $18,500. He said he had begun an investigation into the no-bid contracts with ATSC.

Jim McCormick, the head of ATSC, based in London, did not return calls for comment.

The Baghdad Operations Command announced Tuesday that it had purchased an additional 100 detection devices, but General Rowe said five to eight bomb-sniffing dogs could be purchased for $60,000, with provable results.

Checking cars with dogs, however, is a slow process, whereas the wands take only a few seconds per vehicle. “Can you imagine dogs at all 400 checkpoints in Baghdad?” General Jabiri said. “The city would be a zoo.”

....

On Tuesday, a guard and a driver for The New York Times, both licensed to carry firearms, drove through nine police checkpoints that were using the device. None of the checkpoint guards detected the two AK-47 rifles and ammunition inside the vehicle.

During an interview on Tuesday, General Jabiri challenged a Times reporter to test the ADE 651, placing a grenade and a machine pistol in plain view in his office. Despite two attempts, the wand did not detect the weapons when used by the reporter but did so each time it was used by a policeman.

“You need more training,” the general said.
The mix of moral depravity, crystal clear corruption and sheer ignorance is headache-inducing. This is the company's site, BTW http://www.atscltd.co.uk/
 

FnordChan

Member
randi2.jpg


James Randi calls bullshit. And, yes, that is incredibly depressing.

FnordChan
 

T Dawg

Banned
'An article on Wednesday about a bomb detection device used by the Iraqi security forces that is considered useless and costly by the American military misstated the surname of the leader of ATSC (UK) Ltd., the London-based company that has sold hundreds of the devices to Iraq’s Interior Ministry. He is Jim McCormick, not Mitchell.'


I really wanna find this Jim McCormick guy. Any London gaffers wanna go down to the head office where this fucking cunt is stationed?
 
I can't say that I know the specifics of Japan-US relations post WWII, but can't the US take a similar approach in rebuilding Iraq?

It seems like they really need more attention. :/
 

T Dawg

Banned
Website:

http://atscllc.en.ecplaza.net/

ATSC (UK) Ltd
26 York Street
LONDON,
United Kingdom W1U6PZ
# Tel : 44-207-193-0282
# Fax : 44-207-681-2036
# Homepage : http://www.ATSCLTD.co.uk

Contact :
Mr. Vic
Exports Director, Export Sales
inquire now

Factory ATSC
UK , United Kingdom
Tel: 44-161-408-3150 / Fax: 44-161-332-6278


'We are the original manufacturers of the renowned ADE series of substance detector products. The picture above was taken where approximately 83 cluster-bombs were uncovered in the Southern Lebanon region using the ADE - Advanced Detection Equipment.'



- edit: York Street is just off Marylebone Station btw
 

Alx

Member
You know, as long as people carrying bombs are convinced that the "device" works, it will still do the job, since they won't try to get through checkpoints with their weapons.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
I saw a Miami Dept. of Public Works guy using these stupid things once. I don't know what he was looking for, but I was smh. PEACE.
 

T Dawg

Banned
Alx said:
You know, as long as people carrying bombs are convinced that the "device" works, it will still do the job, since they won't try to get through checkpoints with their weapons.

Fingers crossed that Osamas copy of the New York Times was stolen by an unruly neighbour before he had a chance to read it.
 
The sad thing is, they're not the only company selling such devices:

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/

H3%2BTec%2BIED.jpg


What do you get when you wrap a dowsing rod with a metal case? An easy way to find Gold? Oil? Drugs? Explosives? Landmines? No, you get H3 Tec's glorified metal stick inside a metal case. The inventor apparently was inspired by Star Trek into building his own "tricorder." The result is as much science fiction fantasy as the show.

The company's own literature and advertising show the device in action, together with amusingly old fashioned open air dowsing rods. The good old days when you could dowse with a tree limb or a bent piece of wire or coat hanger. Now dowsing rods are so heavy, expensive, and need batteries!

The new one lets you snap on a real GPS device, turn some knobs, plug in 9 volt battery cells and pretend you are Captain Kirk searching for gold on an alien planet. Dowsing has a long history in the search for gold and oil, and has never once been proven to work.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
So where can I get into the "magic rod" business? I could slap a few prototypes together within 10 minutes and sell them for a few 7000% profit each.

Anyone know any similar middle east police forces that needs a few thousand more?

:lol
 

Monocle

Member
Furcas said:
Don't be a dick. Just because you don't agree with their beliefs doesn't give you the right to call them names.
He's not calling them names so much as furnishing an accurate description of their condition.
 

Furcas

Banned
Monocle said:
He's not calling them names so much as furnishing an accurate description of their condition.

They could say the exact same thing about you! In their experience, dowsing rods work. Who are you to dictate what people should believe?
 
The logic is astounding....magic to solve a technological issue! As opposed to, you know, intel and other proper technology.

The bad times just keep on rolling for Iraq. Damn the snakoil salesfolk as well.
 

T Dawg

Banned
Furcas said:
They could say the exact same thing about you! In their experience, dowsing rods work. Who are you to dictate what people should believe?

What is this mothafuckery?
 

Dever

Banned
Maybe I'll start selling tap water saying it actually disarms bombs when you splash them with it. If it doesn't work, you didn't believe in the water hard enough.
 

gumshoe

Banned
I thought devine rods are mostly used in Africa?? To be honest I am surprised that Iraqis would use such methods. What is the level of education for a person in the Iraqi forces?


Count Dookkake said:
If I was a porn actor, I would like to be called Rod Divine.

:lol :lol
 

KHarvey16

Member
See guys, getting so worked up about crackpots and pseudo-science is nothing but a waste of time! It's harmless if we let people believe in silly things so what's the big deal?!
 

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

it's 4th of July in my asshole
We have given them the tools and the training now its time to let them look after themselves..................

Did we remember to teach them about the finger guns?

092107-finger-gun.jpg
 

Metalic Sand

who is Emo-Beas?
Soon they will turn in there guns for super soakers. Company told them the water will soak them so bad itll weigh down there clothing to where they cant move and are disabled.

Nerf could probly start up a business in Iraq
 

Gozan

Member
gumshoe said:
To be honest I am surprised that Iraqis would use such methods. What is the level of education for a person in the Iraqi forces?


Well, I don't know about the street level officers, but I think the commanders know enough math to realize that getting a $6.000 kickback for every piece of junk that costs the government $60.000 is a pretty sweet deal!
 

Druz

Member
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
We have given them the tools and the training now its time to let them look after themselves..................

Did we remember to teach them about the finger guns?

092107-finger-gun.jpg.

Hahahah
 
Wow, that's almost as stupid as thinking you can invade a completely different culture and bring about democracy through the barrel of a gun.
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
If this is used to detect bombs in suitcases (or whatever) then this is stupid. If this is used to find landmines, this is brilliant. How else can you convince dozens of people to run into landmines one at a time and clear the path? The only problem is that they paid more than $10 a pop.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
K.Jack said:
They'll realize the mistake when they start using them as a minesweeper.
If they have enough guys with these things walking around they're bound to start finding mines eventually.
 
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