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Is Dragonball GT the biggest waste of potential in a series sequel ever?

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R

ReplacementPelican

Member
alfredofroylan said:
A lot of people is going to disagree but for me
Beast_Wars_title_logo.jpg

Horrible design, CG aged really bad and the only good story IMO is the one that involves Gen 1 Transofrmers.
Click to expand...
How fucking dare you.
 
D

daniels

Member
I know some people will be mad at me...
But the drop in quality from Naruto to Naruto shippuden is pretty insane..
and Naruto wasnt even good to begin with.
I feel the One piece anime also has a big drob after the war.
I didnt like DB GT but i will mention that the SSJ4 form was pretty cool and final fight wasnt all that bad either.
 
S

Stulaw

Member
DBZ should have ended with the Cell Saga.

All of a sudden in the Buu Saga, Goten and Trunks could somehow give #18 trouble despite the fact that they're no where near as powerful as their fathers from the android saga.

Mr. Satan's human followers are dumb shits, seriously, everyone on Earth must have bad memories since some of them must have seen Goku and friends fight in previous tournaments, or are too stupid to be real, because there's no way they would believe he beat Cell, or him bitch-slapping Satan up a cliff was a 'trip' and all those lights and explosions are 'tricks'.

And then there was the whole "Oh no! He's going to destroy the Earth!" thing that I think started with Cell. Well no shit Sherlock, if Master Roshi, whose most powerful form isn't even a 100,000th of Cell's power could destroy the Moon, Cell's Kamehameha's definitely going to destroy the Earth. I mean why don't their normal attacks at this point risk destroying the Earth? They don't even do much damage considering they're trying to kill him.

There's so many things wrong with DBZ that I wasn't surprised that GT turned out the way it did. I mean why didn't Goku's Super Saiyan 4 Kamehameha destroy the Sun when he killed Baby? It's like by getting stronger they actually get weaker.

I watched Dragon Ball after Z and GT, it was much better and the 23rd Bodukai arc would have been a nice place to end. I also completely understand why people think the Freeza saga should be the end. Although I guess they had to make the Genki Dama/Spirit Bomb useful for once.

/rant

tl;dr DBZ got stupid and GT only made it worse.
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
I've only been disappointed by 3 sequel series almost as much as GT. Beast Machines, Eureka Seven AO, and Legend of Korra.

GT is still the worst.
 
G

GraceflAnger

Member
A_Gorilla said:
Where did you hear that? I haven't seen the film but from what I understand it left a massive sequel hook at the end...
Click to expand...

There is another movie in the works to come out in Japan next year, and I think that Toriyama said that since the movie did so well at its initial launch that he was going to do another series.
 
G

genjiZERO

Member
Personally, I loved the Buu Saga because I thought Mr Satan and Buu's friendship was so funny.

Other than the ending of GT (which I hated) I just thought it was uninspired.
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
Just imagine if Goku had actually taken Trunks and Goten with him on an adventure through the galaxy, kicking ass and taking names, while rushing back to save Earth as Vegeta and Gohan hold the fort down against a new, powerful enemy.

I know how depressing it is that I haven't mentioned any of the other Z Warriors.

Sketchbag said:
Avatar: The Legend of Korra.

Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

I agree. Season 3 was solid, but season 1 was mediocre at best and season 2 was a turd. The series has also completely ruined bending, and the setting in the "roaring 20s" is never going to jive with me. It will never top The Last Airbender.
 
R

ReplacementPelican

Member
alfredofroylan said:
I didn't like it, sorry about that but very few things of Beast Wars are enjoyable to me. At the time I really didn't like the CG and TBH it was until Toy Story 2 shen I finally ended up liking it.
Click to expand...
It's more than okay, everyone has their own opinions but I rather enjoyed the series when it was on and still do to this day. Though I really didn't enjoy anything post-Beast Wars until Animated.
 
H

Hypemaster

Member
flaxknuckles said:
He is a force of nature. He doesn't need character, he just comes in and wrecks shit. He should have never died from that squiggly ass punch. He should have showed up randomly throughout DBZ just to beat up Goku and his mark ass friends and then leave to destroy more planets.
Click to expand...
And those type of villains tend to be boring as hell after a while.


OT: Forever will I be pissed off anytime gt is mentioned. How they gonna play my boy Gohan like that?
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Frog-fu said:
Just imagine if Goku had actually taken Trunks and Goten with him on an adventure through the galaxy, kicking ass and taking names, while rushing back to save Earth as Vegeta and Gohan hold the fort down against a new, powerful enemy.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I am talking about. This is the perfect recipe for an awesome two arc setup. It just sounds so good on paper. Pan stealing Goten's spot was dumb when she could have just been added to the crew, but that entire space journey ended up being so incredibly uninspired anyway that it didn't even matter.

Some of Z's best moments came when Goku wasn't around (Android arc) so we could have had that again in the Baby arc... but, no.
 
IpsoFacto

IpsoFacto

Member
Yeah, Dragon Ball GT was a waste and I get the impression that they made that sequel series to make up for the terrible ending in the original Z series.

Much like the manga itself, Dragon Ball Z just ends suddenly, hence why the need to fabricate a sequel series to have a more proper ending.

I'm sure that was part of the intention, of course most of it was "We want more Dragon Ball money", but the series itself... Kinda of a mess.

Did Goku turning into a little kid add anything to the show? Absolutey not. The series had a somewhat decent animation budget, but towards the end, they had cut corners like crazy.
 
T

TheVampire

Banned
Kyzer said:
They just recklessly ignored so many established concepts and developing stories it was hard to feel like something went wrong and it wasn't the same universe
Click to expand...

GT was shit how they messed up all the characters power levels and then nerferd other characterers. And introdcing new enemies stronger than Buu? thats bs. Buu should have been the limit realisticly.
 
J

Josh7289

Member
Considering how good Battle of Gods is and how much that movie opens up the series to further expansion in a way that fits the series perfectly, yeah, I agree that GT was a waste of potential.
 
C

Cromat

Member
I think having the wish granting dragon himself be the final villain is a good idea and a fitting end to the series. I haven't watched GT so I can't comment on the execution.

After abusing the Dragon Balls as a "everything is back to normal" mechanism for the entire show, it would have been great to finish the show by demonstrating that using them has a cost or that they actually hold some evil inside them. A final fight versus the dragon in which the balls are destroyed forever is a natural end for the series, much more so than the random Buu.
 
H

Host Samurai

Member
For what it was I actually liked GT. SS4 was a bad ass transformation, Super 17 was a fun saga and Goku traveling around the universe was pretty cool. GT wasn't anything great by any means but its at least fun if you just roll with it. Its like watching the filler DBZ movies but as a series.
 
C

cnorwood

Banned
DBGT is what happens when a company is still trying to milk a cash cow without the guidance of the original creator. While even though Akira Toriyama is a terrible writer (by his own admission) he has some kind of magic that makes his stories click. DBGT pretty much is a series made by the filler team without the same magic of the manga that got transferred to the anime. The new BOG movie works because its the same Toriyama style from the man himself, not a forced one by other people. GT has a lot of cool concepts though
SSJ4 (Better replaced by SSJ god)
Super 17
The shadow dragons

But they were all executed terribly
 
E

emalord

Member
Heroman said:
That is just a rumor , there is no evidence that he wanted to ended after the cell games.
Click to expand...

Toryiama had to stop to the Freezer saga to leave us with the best manga ever, just like Buronson had to stop Hokuto No Ken after the final KenVsRaoh fight

Cell and MajinBu introduced some neat twist but nothing has never been like Namek-Freezer again, the storyline and facts along that saga were such perfection
 
C

CrazyDude

Member
emalord said:
Toryiama had to stop to the Freezer saga to leave us with the best manga ever, just like Buronson had to stop Hokuto No Ken after the final KenVsRaoh fight

Cell and MajinBu introduced some neat twist but nothing has never been like Namek-Freezer again, the storyline and facts along that saga were such perfection
Click to expand...

I enjoyed Cell more than Freezer arc, so I disagree stopping their.
 
E

emalord

Member
CrazyDude said:
I enjoyed Cell more than Freezer arc, so I disagree stopping their.
Click to expand...

A couple of my friends would agree with you
But what happens in the Freezer saga is so frantic that I still love it after all these years while I almost forgot what followed
 
J

jhmtehgamr20xx

Banned
Sketchbag said:
Avatar: The Legend of Korra.

Just sayin'.
Click to expand...
Phuck outta here with that. Korra's a MUCH better series than GT, there's no contest.

I'd also say it's better than the Buu Saga from Z; what a waste of a saga that was.

But to the OP; the only redeeming arc in GT was the Seven Dragons one, and the only fight that was actually decent was Goku's against Shenlong (dat Dragon Punch ;3)

alfredofroylan said:
A lot of people is going to disagree but for me
Beast_Wars_title_logo.jpg

Horrible design, CG aged really bad and the only good story IMO is the one that involves Gen 1 Transofrmers.
Click to expand...
As someone who got a kick out of watching this semi-recently, I wholeheartedly disagree.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, no, because it was like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip....that at one time had blood and it was already squeezed out.
 
S

Sciz

Member
The entirety of the Buu arc is Toriyama deconstructing how completely absurd Dragonball had become and how seriously it'd been taking itself. You really can't view it through the same lens as the prior arcs.

GT on the other hand just kept the power escalation going with absolutely no self awareness and suffered for it.
 
J

Jinroh

Member
The problem with Dragon Ball GT is that the story doesn't make any sense once it reaches the baby arc. It could have been a really good Dragon-Ball like anime, but became awful as soon as it tried to copy DBZ.

The fights aren't even good, 90% of them are made of talk and energy blasts; there isn't any good close fight similar to the ones against Frieza, Cell and Buu junior.

It's like they changed the whole concept of the show midway without really knowing what they were doing. They wasted so many characters and potential.
 
U

ugoo18

Member
Stulaw said:
tl;dr DBZ got stupid and GT only made it worse.
Click to expand...

Hold up there i enjoyed the Buu Saga, the return to some form of light heartedness akin to Dragonball was appreciated. Plus Buu's different forms were interesting.

Fat Buu's cruelty/evil behind child like innocence was great

Super Buu's colder or more to the point approach to evil was great. His extinguishing of life on the planet in one swift motion was what basically any villain with a scrap of common sense trying to wipe out life on a planet should have done. You and i both know how frustrating DBZ villains (Villains in general) can get with their drawn out gloat/kill sessions that always give the Z warriors time to counter

Kid Buu's unpredictability was also great. Specifically that moment between his creation and him arriving on the Supreme Kai's world. Him actually abusing what gave him a clear edge was great, destroying worlds and regenerating quickly after to continue.

Now if we are talking about plot holes in DBZ there were some terrible ones lol.

Trunks and Goten even being Super Saiyans. What great need could two children in peace times possibly have that would drive them to achieve the legendary transformation of the Saiyan race. Goku needed the death of a close friend, Vegeta practically went mad to do it and Gohan under Goku's coaching in the time chamber only managed it because of the threat of Cell killing everyone. Yet 2 children in peace times manage this now because?

Cell forgetting that Piccolo could regenerate even though he had Piccolo's own cells within him.

Babidi and his henchmen never thinking to check what the past competitors at the World martial arts tournament were like in terms of power yet they know that it is likely to draw strong fighters.

Babidi and his henchmen never thinking to search for Gohan and the Z fighters. The Z fighters were known thanks to the Cell games yet not once did it ever occur to Babidi and his henchmen to look into that. Unless Spopovic and Yamu had been living under a rock for the entirety of the Cell era till their death that knowledge should have been in Babidi's hand.

Pui Pui and Yakon. I refuse to accept that someone like Babidi who was able to subdue Dabura actually in his heart of hearts believed that Pui Pui and Yakon were good minions in terms of power. I also refuse to believe that in the entire time that they were on earth before the tournament that not a single Z fighter raised their power to a detectable range, especially when you have Trunks and Goten going Super Saiyan and Vegeta training like a man possessed.

The entire Supreme Kai never checking the North Quadrant bs. You're telling me that the person who's meant to be the over Kai never thought to look into a particular quadrant even though he was fully aware of Frieza (To the point that he had a good idea of how much more powerful Buu was compared to Frieza) and should in theory by association Saiyans. To the point were he had no idea beings of Goku/Vegeta/Gohan's power existed.

Vegito retaining sentient ability as a piece of candy. No one else was able to move as a piece of food yet Vegito could because reasons. How does saiyan power now allow someone to function as a piece of candy yet once they enter Buu that same power without a shield is rendered useless because of some barely explained thing with Buu's internals.

SSJ2 Gohan vs Cell's beam clash. Cell had power to spare in that beam clash. He was overpowering Gohan and holding off Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien and Krillin with what amounted to him flexing yet only saw fit to raise his power whenever Gohan managed anything rather than simply ending it. Also Cell's death, a Kamehamea obliterated him past a cellular level but him detonating himself didn't?

Cell's self destruction. The entire time Goku wasted looking heroic and saying goodbye he could have IT'd Cell to King Kai's planet. Rescued Bubbles, King Kai and Gregory and gotten back before Cell blew up.

Krillin's durability bypassing destructo disc. Krillin, of all people Krillin somehow conjures up an attack that actually cut's off a part of Frieza yet Gohan's enraged assault only manages to bruise him as well as the fact that no one else ever thinks to use a destructo disc again. Krillin also never thinks to combine Solar Flare with Destructo Disc, Frieza is literally a sitting duck for the duration of that Solar Flare.

The fact that Piccolo of all people didn't notice Dr Gero's observation of himself yet was able to fully understand/hear Future Trunks and Goku discussing from a significant distance away while no one else could. An observation that was so intimate he acquired Piccolo's cells.

Mystic Gohan not being able to catch an earring thrown by Goku.

A frog that just happened to jump into Goku's hand for him to throw as Ginyu was about to jump to Vegeta's body.

Frieza not Killing Nail even though Nail caused him a fair amount of trouble

Those are the ones i can remember right now but i know that there are definitely more lol.
 
C

Cutebrute

Member
GT is very flawed, but it's most fundamental issue stems from the fact that you can't have Goku be the protagonist without negating the ending of DBZ. That decision alone practically doomed GT to be a horrible attempt at recreating what made the original series so popular.

The whole point of DBZ's ending was that Goku needed to find a true successor to protect the Earth, and that this successor would be Uub. By setting GT in a period where Goku was still roughly in his prime (and younger, in fact), it robbed Uub of his importance and DBZ of its thematic ending. It also leaves way too many superpower beings on Earth who are all roughly as powerful as Kid Buu (Uub, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and potentially Gotenks), which forces the story to continue down the path of galactic power increases and dick waving that plagued the final chapters of DBZ. At this point, the characters are so powerful that it is tough to give them an exciting story and a worthy adversary without resorting to bullshit storytelling or downplaying the characters' feats (GT commits both of these sins). GT could have been great if it could have been a very brief denouement to the stories and characters people fell in love with in the beginning, but because of Uub, I think it should have been a fresh start set in the distant feature where Goku Jr. is the protagonist among an entirely new set of cast members, except perhaps an old Uub, who could fill a mentorship role. I will say that I really enjoyed DBGT: A Hero's Legacy, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of that if Toei would let things get scaled back again.

But even with this conflict of interests, GT suffers from poor plotting and storytelling. The story arcs feel very disconnected from one another and with the exception of the Shadow Dragons, the villains are rehashed and boring with evil Vegeta being a thing yet again; Dr. Gero and Player 2 Dr. Gero creating the "ultimate warrior" which is 17 2.0; and classic villains show up but they slow proceedings down rather than be fun fan service.
To top it off, the art style is a serious downgrade, it looks cheap, the music sucks, fan favorite characters are reduced to being background dressing, and it's far too serious and boring. Even at the height of it's insanity, DBZ knew how to be fun and it had far more interesting action moments.
 
IpsoFacto

IpsoFacto

Member
I'm also not praising the original series... Dragon Ball Z was terrible in it's own way. Specially the filler material. Dragon Ball Z only recentely started being enjoyable for me with Dragon Ball Kai.

Here's hoping they make an abridged version of Naruto in the near future... 'cause I can't stomach to much filler.
 
E

Elrond Hubbard

Neo Member
IMO, Dragonball from Z onwards got pretty crappy once the Saiyans, specifically Goku, were the only characters worth anything.

When only 2-3 members of your cast are useful in a fight, and the series is mostly about fighting, you've jumped the shark.
 
EGOMON

EGOMON

Member
The best thing came out from DBGT is SSJ4 that transformation makes so much sense it should have been in DBZ i mean controlling the immense power of the Great Apes while retaining your human form is just the most logical next step in sayians transformation.

Edit: Broly is the shit and should have never been killed i mean he had 10k power reading when he was just born he is the god damn Legendary Super Sayian!
What made me hate the movie he died on is the way they killed him. Broly was bitch slapping Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Picolo at the same time he even took Goku's kamehameha at point blank and shrug it off! But somehow a half dead Goku after asking for the others energy managed to defeat him with one punch i mean WTF! All in all i was so sad Brolly lost he is to this day my favorite badass anime character of all time.
 
1

120v

Member
GT actually started out with a great premise: a return the the original DB's adventure roots -- but in SPACE. but, from what I recall, ratings were tanking and the writers brought it back to the more DBZ combat-based story arcs... and that was too little too late and the story had to be wrapped up, albeit in a lame way.

but yeah, a lot of wasted potential there, though back in the mid 90s I thought it started out pretty cool. hopefully the new movies (assuming there are more) will give us a proper "sequel" assuming there'll never be a new manga or tv series
 
J

jhmtehgamr20xx

Banned
ugoo18 said:
Also Cell's death, a Kamehamea obliterated him past a cellular level but him detonating himself didn't?
Click to expand...
Suicide bombers can blow themselves up but you'll still find bits and pieces scattered around, just sayin'.

Cutebrute said:
The whole point of DBZ's ending was that Goku needed to find a true successor to protect the Earth, and that this successor would be Uub. By setting GT in a period where Goku was still roughly in his prime (and younger, in fact), it robbed Uub of his importance and DBZ of its thematic ending. It also leaves way too many superpower beings on Earth who are all roughly as powerful as Kid Buu (Uub, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and potentially Gotenks), which forces the story to continue down the path of galactic power increases and dick waving that plagued the final chapters of DBZ. At this point, the characters are so powerful that it is tough to give them an exciting story and a worthy adversary without resorting to bullshit storytelling or downplaying the characters' feats (GT commits both of these sins). GT could have been great if it could have been a very brief denouement to the stories and characters people fell in love with in the beginning, but because of Uub, I think it should have been a fresh start set in the distant feature where Goku Jr. is the protagonist among an entirely new set of cast members, except perhaps an old Uub, who could fill a mentorship role. I will say that I really enjoyed DBGT: A Hero's Legacy, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of that if Toei would let things get scaled back again.
Click to expand...

Perfectly said. GT's a trainwreck for many reasons but this is easily the biggest reason.
 
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