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Is it possible to beat NetHack? And did Diablo come first?

Gattsu25 said:
hmm...i've realized....i have no idea how to do anything in this game but eat, drink, open doors, write on the floor, kill, get killed, and read scrolls

how and when do you shop and learn/use magic?

Shops can be found randomly as you go farther down, but if you take the detour into the gnomish mines, there is a guaranteed "shop floor" halfway down or so.

Essentially, a shop is just another dungeon room with a bunch of stuff artfully left on the floor guarded by a Shopkeeper.

Don't mess with those guys - this isn't the local 7-11, its the damned dungeon of doom. Most shopkeepers will try to follow you to other floors, have a lot of HP, and plenty of spells/wands.

Another side effect of theft: it usually alarms the Keystone Kops. Nothing like being blinded by a thrown pie.

You can learn magic by reading spellbooks - even if you don't know what type it is, if you succeed in reading, you learn it. Your success in reading is based on intelligence - if its too low, there is a chance of something very bad happening (amnesia, blindness, explosion, teleportation).

Learning a spell doesn't guarantee you can CAST it though. Intelligence/Wisdom need to be high enough, and in some cases you need to be of a certain magic level (ie: keep casting until it level ups).
 

Gattsu25

Banned
thanks much...and dammit...it's freaking 2 hours later than I thought it was....

lets see if I have more questions tomorrow :b
 

User 406

Banned
One more note for the people having trouble finding secret doors that you just know have to be there: kick the walls. If you kick a secret door, it'll open. Just keep an eye on your health after failed attempts since you can whittle yourself down.

Also, don't forget to search for secret doors within corridors, sometimes there are secret side passages.

Another useful identifying tip: You can #dip things into potions. If you dip a dagger into an unidentified potion and it coats the blade, it's poison. Don't drink it. :p
 
Yep.

Dipping is useful for other things too.

-Dip any scroll into water and it becomes blank (suitable for writing your own scrolls with a magic marker)

-Dip a unicorn horn into some bad effect potions (blindness, etc) and they become clear water.

-Dip a potion into a water source (well) and it becomes diluted. Do it again and it becomes clear water.

What's the point of clear water?

UNCURSING STRATEGY
Things you need:
-An altar with the same alignment as yours.
-Clear potions.
-Ability to pray without being punished.

Drop the potions (and any cursed items you have) on the altar, and then pray. On rare occasions, your god will uncurse items, but almost 100% of the time god will bless your clear potions, turning them into Holy Water!

Holy water is about as useful as it gets in Nethack. You can dip ANY item into Holy Water to bless it (or uncurse cursed gear). Normal dipping rules do not apply, so you can dip scrolls in Holy Water without fading, and potions without diluting.

Why should I bother with this?

Whenever you use a Scroll of Identify, its effect depends on curse status. A cursed scroll can identify only one item. An uncursed scroll can identify 1-3 (random). A blessed scroll can identify anywhere from 3 to ALL of your items. Identification is permanent, so this is a tremendous way to know what stuff is.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
quick question...how do you pray and what are the benefits/penalties?

and how (exactly) do I sell items in shops?
 
Gattsu25 said:
quick question...how do you pray and what are the benefits/penalties?

and how (exactly) do I sell items in shops?

Alt+P to pray. Early in the game you can probably pray every 500 turns or so, but that quickly goes into the 1000-3000 turns level thereafter.

There are three forms of praying:

Pray: If you are in a dire, life or death emergency (surrounded by enemies, low HP, body damage, blind, cursed, starving, or have food poisoning) there is a good chance God will recover one or more of those conditions (repel enemies, restore HP, cure illness, etc)

Crowning: When you pray enough during the game and are at a sufficient level, God will deem you grown up enough to handle yourself. Usually a named weapon will materialize at your feet, things will get blessed, health is restored, and the pray turn counter goes up to 5000+.

Offer (Alt+O): Drag a corpse onto a coaligned altar, drop it there, and then offer it. Offering corpses raises your luck, helps you reconcile with god (speeds up the turn counter), and after awhile, god starts giving you gifts in exchange (named weapons). The best thing to offer is always an opposite alignment unicorn.

Offer a body of the same race as yourself, a pet, or a coaligned unicorn, and expect God to get all nasty on you. Lightning strikes, EXP or level loss, wide angle beam disintegration...

If you experiment with unicorns and nonaligned altars, you can convert or be converted, but since this pisses off a god I don't recommend it.

Shop selling: To sell something to a shopkeeper, just drop an item you own inside his store. He should ask if you want to sell it - hit yes and receive money. If you go past the amount of gold the shopkeeper has, he offers credit instead.

Shop Theft: You can use Alt+P to "settle up" with a shopkeeper, but never pay out of hand. Instead, drop the money on the ground. While it stays there, it acts like credit.

Stand inside a shop doorway with your pet inside. Wait around and the pet will probably pick up merchandise and drop it, sometimes close to you. You can train your pet by throwing it food on a successful drop. Since the merchant can't step on the square directly in front of you so fast, the items are yours free and clear. (The same goes for money on the ground).

The only problems with this system are that its also an easy way to starve to death if you're not prepared, and that pets have a VERY hard time stepping on squares with cursed items (they can sense it).
 

Gattsu25

Banned
thanks again...messed around with prayer and:

Became Full when Fainting from Hunger
Became Cleansed while Poisoned.
Was shown to be foolish and lost my level (happened twice)
Angered the god
Was struck by lightning and killed :b

Do I press [edit: err..]ALT+O to drag bodies?



Got stuck picking up a 500ton cursed stone >_< no uncurse potions/scrolls or same alignment altars nearby either >_<
 

Gattsu25

Banned
that's what I get when I ask simple questions :\ figured out how to offer up a carcass...and incur the wrath of my diety!! ;b
 

dog$

Hates quality gaming
The way to avoid picking up those 500tn. Loadstones is to isolate them on the floor and kick them - flints/luckstones/rocks/etc will go flying and a Loadstone will stay put.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
I read somewhere about statues and how they can have stuff... but how the hell do you open a statue or do whatever you need to do to see if anything is inside?
 

dog$

Hates quality gaming
Pick axe/mattock the statue, or the Force Bolt spell will do it. If I'm not mistaken a Wand of Digging will work too.

The statues around The Delphi usually have something hidden inside one of them.

This is also how you get at the goodies you left behind if you encounter a bones file from a character that turned to stone upon death (cockatrice encounter).
 
Gattsu25 said:
thanks again...messed around with prayer and:
Became Full when Fainting from Hunger
Became Cleansed while Poisoned.
Was shown to be foolish and lost my level (happened twice)
Angered the god
Was struck by lightning and killed :b

That was pretty good, you survived more than most would. On the lightning strike, if you had an amulet of life saving equipped, the amulet would resurrect you, god would get frustrated, and then the wide angle disintegration beam would clean you out for good.

You probably figured it out, but bodies have to be held like any item. Be careful with some bodies, as they may be heavy enough to crush you (for heavy bodies you get a "confirm" choice though)

Got stuck picking up a 500ton cursed stone >_< no uncurse potions/scrolls or same alignment altars nearby either >_<

Funny but true - if you are polymorphed into a certain type of object eating monster (gelatinous cube, for example) and eat a flintstone....

"Yabba dabba Delicious!"

Eating a spear also has a gum related joke.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
is there ever a safe place to rest?

I've been trying to use a wizard, and usually pretty successfully except that I eventually start running low on power and there is just no way for me to ever get it back because it sees there is just infinite monsters. Like I was stuck in the town of the gnomish mines with monsters chasing me so I grabbed an item in a shop to make the shop keeper block the entrance so I could rest and shoot them through the doorway except there seemed to be an infinite amount of monsters, I musta killed like 20 from shooting magic missile through that doorway, and eventually there was a monster that just teleported in and killed me.

also, is there a way to tell the game to rest until you get hit? Just holding down '.' gets me killed waaaay too often.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
I've tried doing that, its never worked

edit: and so I assumed it was one a those "only exists if compiled that way" options and didn't exist in whatevcer version I'm playing.
 

dog$

Hates quality gaming
Yeah, never worked for me either... well, usually I dig hallways for myself and just run back and forth: at least with running you won't get into any conflict on accident. Locked room + Earth Scroll might be helpful in tight quarters.

I agree the game should have something like Moria's rest-until-something-happens command, but it doesn't.
 
Elbereth actually works really well, but:

a. You need to engrave it with a wand
b. You can't be standing on the elbereth square

And for "wait until something happens", well, there is a solution:

type:

n10s

Whenever 'n' occurs, the game then looks for a number (in this case, 10), and then an action (s). So, n10s searches 10 times (s = . ) You could replace it with n1000s or n92s or whatever.

This action is interruptable! In most situations it will stop early for incoming monsters, being attacked, etc.
 

User 406

Banned
Not just any wand will do a good job of engraving Elbereth, you'll want to use a wand of digging so the letters are engraved into the floor and not just the dust. I think the wand of lightning will also make it semi-permanent, but it'll blind you in the process. The nice thing is, even if your wand of digging doesn't have any charges left, it'll still engrave like that.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
I found a dead end hallway, used a ring with a gem in it to engrave Elbereth on the floor (not write in the dust, actually engrave). I then kept standing on it and monsters kept attack me. So I took a step back so that monsters would have to cross the elbereth square to get to me, and they did. I took a step forward again and checked and sure enough Elbereth was still engraved on the floor =\
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
I tried both ways and both failed for me so it wasn't that, but I just read the faq more carefully and

"b. You can't be standing on the elbereth square"
the faq says you HAVE to be standing on the square.
 
slayn said:
I tried both ways and both failed for me so it wasn't that, but I just read the faq more carefully and

"b. You can't be standing on the elbereth square"
the faq says you HAVE to be standing on the square.

Usually they just seem to be repelled BY the square, not by your presence on it. That's why monsters have trouble getting into the sokoban treasure.

Anyhow, some monsters can ignore elbereth (mindless). You also have to keep in mind diagonals.

Scrolls of earth, door locking, and boulder pushing are always your best bets for protection. You actually build dexterity by opening doors instead of smashing them down with a swift kick.
 
I've been dabbling in Nethack a bit the last few days ... I've found that if I kick in a random direction at the end of hallways, I can sometimes CRASH! Open a secret passage. However, those passages don't show up via searching. Is there a way to save my poor leg and detect the presence of these extendable hallways beyond just lashing out hithernither?
 
JackFrost2012 said:
I've been dabbling in Nethack a bit the last few days ... I've found that if I kick in a random direction at the end of hallways, I can sometimes CRASH! Open a secret passage. However, those passages don't show up via searching. Is there a way to save my poor leg and detect the presence of these extendable hallways beyond just lashing out hithernither?

That's...rather incredible.

Usually enough searching will open wherever a door is supposed to be. Other alternatives are the Wand of Secret Door Detection, the Wand of Digging (point it in a direction, and voila, instant path), or just plain-old chipping away with a pick-axe.

Carrying a pick-axe is a great idea if you can spare the encumbrance. Using it to dig builds strength, and if you're having a good game, it's helpful to dig a direct path from stairway to stairway so that you can easily gather items for polypiling, or to make a hasty ascent later on in the game.
 
Crazymoogle said:
Usually enough searching will open wherever a door is supposed to be.

Hrms, maybe the problem is that I'm playing very very stupid barbarians. ;)

EDIT: Hrms, it seems that sometimse things won't appear until the sixth or seventh search. I was usually giving up around two or three - I guess NetHack really takes searching seriously. :p

The game is pretty frickin' hard. I expect to finally ascend sometime around 2014.

EDIT 2: Some other questions. Is there a way to open a locked door beyond simply kicking the hell out of it? Like attacking it with a weapon, or some such. What's the best way to ID potions and scrolls - drink and read them yourself, or toss and give them to enemies to see the effects? Is it worth taking a chance on equipping un-IDed equipment, or is the risk of something cursed binding to you too great? What good are statues of enemies for? What's with all the sinks and fountains? Should I be dipping items in them, praying to them, drinking from them, or what? What class would you recommend for beginners?
 

User 406

Banned
JackFrost2012 said:
EDIT 2: Some other questions. Is there a way to open a locked door beyond simply kicking the hell out of it? Like attacking it with a weapon, or some such. What's the best way to ID potions and scrolls - drink and read them yourself, or toss and give them to enemies to see the effects? Is it worth taking a chance on equipping un-IDed equipment, or is the risk of something cursed binding to you too great? What good are statues of enemies for? What's with all the sinks and fountains? Should I be dipping items in them, praying to them, drinking from them, or what? What class would you recommend for beginners?

They say that you need a key in order to open locked doors.

Ever wondered why one would want to dip something in a potion?

Keep a clear mind: quaff clear potions.

They say that if you're lucky you can feel the runes on a scroll.

Potions don't usually mix, but sometimes...

Reading scrolls after drinking booze can give confusing results.

They say that it's a blast when you mix the right potions together.

They say that a potion of oil is difficult to grasp.

They say that monsters never step on a scare monster scroll.

A glowing potion is too hot to drink.

Dogs are superstitious; they never step on cursed items.

They say that kicking a heavy statue is really a dumb move.

They say that sinks and armor don't mix, take your cloak off now!

They say that sinks run hot and cold and many flavors in between.

They say that a fountain looks nothing like a regularly erupting geyser.

They say that dipping a bag of tricks in a fountain won't make it an icebox.

They say that dropping coins into a fountain will not grant you a wish.

They say that the lady of the lake now lives in a fountain somewhere.

They say that you cannot trust scrolls of rumor.

;D
 
JackFrost2012 said:
The game is pretty frickin' hard. I expect to finally ascend sometime around 2014.

Here's an idea for you - I've been playing off and on since 1998, and I've only been close to ascending once. You can clean out the entirety of the dungeon and be ready to steal the amulet, but even then your odds are not very good. The elemental planes are unbelievably difficult.

EDIT 2: Some other questions. Is there a way to open a locked door beyond simply kicking the hell out of it?

A pickaxe or equivalent can probably destroy it. A key (or skeleton key) can open it. A credit card can sometimes open it. Actually, keys are very useful to have since most of the time they seem to be skeleton keys, and you can lock doors for protection if need be.

Opening doors and locked doors works out your dexterity, too (bashing down doors works out strength)

What's the best way to ID potions and scrolls - drink and read them yourself, or toss and give them to enemies to see the effects?

The very best way involves having casual knowledge of the potion or scroll FAQ. However, if you don't want to go that far:

-Potions have unique "results" when thrown against a wall. It can be hard to tell what it does based on the results though. Drinking is somewhat safe provided you know its uncursed or blessed, and that you've dipped a unicorn horn in it (the really nasty potions turn into something safe if you do that). There are still some risks, but not many.

I always like to lock myself in a small-medium room when I'm trying to ID potions, just in case. If you're not unicorn horn dipping, going blind without telepathy is a quick way to die, and a locked room provides fairly good protection. (If you want telepathy, eat the corpse of one of those giant eyeballs. Then, if you wear something over your eyes (or are blind) you can see any monster with a brain).

One exception is the smoky potion - if its blessed (or you really want to roll the dice), drink it. There is always a chance of a Genie appearing, and if it really likes you (far more likely with blessed), it will grant you a wish. If it sort of likes you, it is merely a pet, if it's indifferent, it just wanders on its own, and if it hates you, well, good luck.

-Scrolls, well, damn, just using them is way too risky. If they're blessed, you MIGHT be okay, but usually it's bad news in all circumstances.

The best way to identify scrolls is with a scroll of identify - but if you don't have that, try dumping all of your scrolls on a shop floor so you can check their values. The cheapest ones are usually identify - so try using any extremely cheap scrolls you have and hope for the best.

Just in case there is a scroll of flame, you would be wise to put away any flammable goods, potions, or other scrolls into a bag (or drop at your feet if you don't mind risking teleportation).

Try to bless scrolls of identify once you know what they are to really speed up the identification process. An experienced Nethack player, once they have 5+ blessed scrolls of identify, starts moving any spare chests/boxes near the stairs on a given level, then gathers ALL of the spare equipment they can find. The idea from there is to basically hold as much unidentified stuff as you possibly can (do it all at once so you're not moving around like a sloth) and then using the blessed scroll (which has a high chance of identifying everything at once).

Is it worth taking a chance on equipping un-IDed equipment, or is the risk of something cursed binding to you too great?

There is nearly a 40% occurance of cursed equipment in the game, so don't blindly equip stuff unless your AC is already terrible (8+). To check for curses, either drop on an altar (black flashes mean cursed, white/gold flashes are blessed, no effect means uncursed), get it identified, or try placing it somewhere a pet would have to walk on it. If the pet refuses to step on the spot for a long time or "grudgingly" does so, it's cursed.

The only exceptions I would make would be for tattered cloaks (almost always cloaks of displacement, which means even mild AC penalties are fine), or for items you've taken off enemy bodies that YOU KNOW have a good effect. (If you see a gnome "seems to be moving faster" that tells you they either have a potion of speed, wand of speed, or boots of speed)

With anything else, the risk is too high, really. The helm of opposite alignment is cursed and has a very obvious and dangerous effect. There are dunce caps (annihilates your intelligence), gauntlets that basically make you clumsy, and if you wear a cursed stackable item (ie: tshirt => armor => cloak or ring => gauntlet) you can't take off anything underneath it.

What good are statues of enemies for?

Statues aren't very useful - in fact, they are somewhat dangerous. Try to pickaxe statues (rare chance of a scroll or book being revealed, or on the Medusa floor, something better).

Eventually a monster statue returns to life, which can be bad news depending on the monster.

Figurines, on the other hand (which look just like statues in tilemode) are great! You can actually use figurines - if they are blessed, the figurine turns into a pet. Neutral = ambivalent, Cursed = enemy. ANY enemy in the game (except the Wizard and maybe one other exception) can be your pet, so sometimes it can be really handy. (Most people prefer Archon pets since they can phase through solid material). A nasty/fun trick for pets is to force them onto a polymorph trap.

What's with all the sinks and fountains? Should I be dipping items in them, praying to them, drinking from them, or what?

Sinks: Drop rings down them. This is a great way to figure out what they do. Basically, if you know a ring is safe to put on, try it on - if it has no visible effect (turning you invisible, making you hungry, speeding up HP restoration), take it off, and dump it down a sink for a somewhat descriptive answer. You lose the ring for good, though, so identify is always a better choice. One exception is the ring of searching (auto-searches while you move), which bounces back out of the sink every time ("you found it!")

If you are a strong weapon user and have 7+ levels on you, you might want to kick a sink. Every sink contains 1 ring - the other possibilities include black puddings (kill for experience) or succubi (dangerous, kill em quick!). Never, ever drink from a Sink though. There is a chance of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles effect (polymorph).

Fountains: Two different things to do - one is to dip useless scrolls or potions in order to clear them up (be careful, lots of negative monster type effects are possible, although polymorph is not), and the other is rather special:

You need to be lawful, experience level 5 or higher, and dip an ordinairy long sword. 1/6 chance the sword turns into the Blessed Rustless Uncorroded Damageproof Excalibur (which has autosearching while you wield it!). If you're not lawful, this method just abuses your wisdom.

Most named weapons in the game are really powerful and rare, but beside excalibur there two other weapons you can get fairly easily:

Orcrist (Great against Orcs): Find an an Elven Broadsword and #name it Orcrist.
Sting (Great against Orcs, gives you warning): Find an Elven Dagger and #name it Sting.

Try not to make these items unless you need them, though. Named weapons are considered artifacts, and with each artifact spawned by Nethack, the odds of any others being found decreases.

Bonus Tip: If you ever "feel you get better" with a weapon, the game is just saying you should press ALT+E and increase your proficiency.

What class would you recommend for beginners?

Priests: Sort of like red mages. They fight okay with a mace, can learn magic fairly easily, and automatically know if an item is cursed/uncursed/blessed. If you ever get tired of trying to ID armor and just want to get your AC down low, this is a great class to play.

Monk: They don't need weapons and are fairly well off once you find them some better cloth equipment. There are harsh luck/god hits if you let them eat corpses or meat, but I usually let them eat the eyeball corpse anyway and then just wait for my prayer timeout. They carry lots of food to start. If you ever find gauntlets of power (Strength = 25) these guys can really kick ass. Monks also gain a lot of intrinsics on their own, and excercise wisdom while fasting.

When I get tired of those classes, I find the Valkyrie or Barbarian are great brawlers. With the Barbarian in particular, try getting two weapons and then using #twoweapon for twin fisted combat.

For race, consider the following:

Humans: no advantages, possible to hit 18 on all stats without help.
Orcs: strength advantage, intelligence/charisma hit, which means everything is expensive. Orcs also have infravision, poison resistance, and are exempt from cannibalism or eating domesticated animals.
Elves: constitution hit, wis/int advantage, infravision, sleep resistance at lv4. Obviously subject to cannibalism penalty if you eat other elves.
Dwarves: Infravision, wis/int/cha hit, con/dex advantage.
Gnome: Infravision, can hit 19 STR.

Basically, stick to humans. Gnomes seem to be better but you could starve to death in the gnomish mines if you can't eat any of the thousands of gnomes you kill there. Elves are a good choice for magic users, though.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
for the curious, I, the Great Gattsu25™, have found the ULTRAMITE 3D Nethack interface!!

It's so damn good, it even keeps the ASCII screen on (as a 'map') by default.

It's called noeGNUd (spell that backward) and it supports both Nethack (version 3.4.2) and Slash'Em (version 0.0.7e2) which I believe is a varient of NH

it supports a few themes for it's graphics and can be found here: http://www.linuxgames.co.za/noeGNUd/downloads.php

some pics:

misc.jpg

overhead.jpg

nethack-3.4.1-deet.jpg


I say it's a definate must try :b and it works in both Windows and Linux :O
 
Well, uh...interesting...but...

Shot #1: Bad 3D
Shot #2: Bad 2D and...texturing the text background? WHY?
Shot #3: OMG LOOK ITS 3D!!1

Coming up with a real, clear, usable graphics mode that looks better than Nethack tile mode is an immensely difficult task. I think it can be done, but probably not without modifying the graphics engine code to recognize surrounding area tiles (so the game would know when to draw a "corner" tile, for example).

I applaud the creator of noeGNUd for trying in the footsteps of other "not-quite" projects like Falcon's Eye, but at the end of the day this is basically the same thing as applying a lens flare to random photoshop works.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
I have it setup to display at max res using a (near) topdown angle...so basically it looks like the tiled bitmap version with lighting and different tiles, but with a visible ASCII 'map' at all times

sadly, it's menu system is a bit more complicated that it needed to be, but discriptions near every option make up for it

I understand that for someone who grew up on the ASCII version, this might be the farthest thing from workable, but I quickly adapted and can see the positives to this scheme, plus Slash'em isn't half bad :b

also, this version doesn't fall into nearly as many traps that falcon's did as the game itself can be controlled as it could in the ASCII mode, its view can be altered to numerous vantage points (including the classic view), and it's menu system is much easier to digest for long term players
 
Thanks for all the advice! Last night I had my best game ever by a factor of four ... I made it to experience level 12 and well deep into the Gnomish Mines. I prolly would've made it further, except I wielded a mattock to dig a path without stopping to think that they could be cursed, and it welded itself to my hands. >_< Oh well, live and learn. Die and learn, rather.

I found out you can "apply" a weapon to bash down a door, which has relieved my feet greatly. ;) I've also gotten much better at not just randomly equipping armor and weapons, no matter how awesome they might seem. There sure is a LOT of cursed stuff in the game. :p

My current burning question is: how can you remove accidentally/inadvertently equipped cursed items? I found a priest in the mines and tried #praying, donating lots of money, etc., but that damned mattock wouldn't drop. Then a bunch of Uruk-Hai swarmed the temple and the twelfth one or so killed me. ;P

Also: how can you get an item blessed?

BTW, on the subject of ASCII vs. tiles ... I used tilemode for a while, but not seeing the whole screen was frustrating and some tiles were too "precious" to see what they were easily. I then used ASCII for a while, which was much clearer but hard to gather all the necessary information from. I've since been using this 10x20 tileset, and I strongly recommend it. It's short, to the point, fits an entire dungeon floor on one screen, and just cleverly adapts the ASCII letters for enemies instead of coming up with entirely new representations. It's a great combination of ASCII clarity with tileset legibility. (example screenshot)

Later!
 

User 406

Banned
JackFrost2012 said:
My current burning question is: how can you remove accidentally/inadvertently equipped cursed items? I found a priest in the mines and tried #praying, donating lots of money, etc., but that damned mattock wouldn't drop. Then a bunch of Uruk-Hai swarmed the temple and the twelfth one or so killed me. ;P

Also: how can you get an item blessed?

If you don't have a scroll of remove curse or a potion of holy water, try dipping the item into a fountain. It has a chance of uncursing the item, although there is also a chance of less desirable things happening. Another thing you might be able to do with cursed weapons is to eat a tin of fried meat. It will make your hands greasy and cause the weapon to slip from your grasp. Then there's the trick where you drop everything but your cursed item and go piss off a nymph. Likewise, if the cursed item is a piece of clothing or armor, go have some fun with a succubus. ;)
 

Vieo

Member
LoL. This thread has been ressurected a ton of times. Maybe there should be an offical NetHack thread some where. =)

Anyway, I still suck at this game! I have some more questions:

1. What's the best way to kill leprachauns quickly?
2. Once you beat the last dungeon, do you have to go ALL the way back up to the exit that leads outside on the floor you first start on?
3. What is the Stethoscope used for?
4. Is there anyway to fry up a corpse and turn it into edible food?
5. Can ranger dual-wield? (or any of the classes for that matter)
6. Where's the best place to get a shovel so I can dig up graves?
7. Assuming you can manage not to get killed, about how long would it take to beat the game? 20 to 30 mins?


Wouldn't is be great if there was some sort of NetHack tournament? I don't know how they would judge it though. Considering a person can stand still in the game forever and never die, they couldn't judge the winner by 'last man standing'.
 

Lathentar

Looking for Pants
Stethoscope is used to Identify the status (HP, LVL, etc) of creatures. Its a really good tool to have with a pet. Just constantly check your pet's HP and heal when necessary. A large dog/cat can be a very powerful weapon. You can get them strong enough to kill shopkeepers without ANY repercusions.

I know people that have taken 40 hours to complete the game. I'm going to guess the minimum is around 6 hours to accend.
 

Lathentar

Looking for Pants
Vieo said:
Wouldn't is be great if there was some sort of NetHack tournament? I don't know how they would judge it though. Considering a person can stand still in the game forever and never die, they couldn't judge the winner by 'last man standing'.

Nethack gives you a score when you complete the game or die. You rank based on that score. My campus has a campus-wide leader board, which hilariously has one of our Computer Science Professors as #4.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
Thanks for all the advice! Last night I had my best game ever by a factor of four ... I made it to experience level 12 and well deep into the Gnomish Mines. I prolly would've made it further, except I wielded a mattock to dig a path without stopping to think that they could be cursed, and it welded itself to my hands. >_< Oh well, live and learn. Die and learn, rather.

That's pretty much how the game goes - as you decide to learn more, the stupid deaths go down exponentially. At some point, though, if you think you've found out most of the surprises, you may want to look at the official Nethack spoiler guides, which explain exactly what items do and so on. For example, if you're confused when you use an enchant armor scroll, the enchantment "fixes" damage to the armor instead of giving it a +1. As I recall if you do this with scales you can create the appropriate scale mail.

I found out you can "apply" a weapon to bash down a door, which has relieved my feet greatly. ;) I've also gotten much better at not just randomly equipping armor and weapons, no matter how awesome they might seem. There sure is a LOT of cursed stuff in the game. :p

The strange thing is, gathering all of the dropped equipment you've seen usually pays off. For every 5 or 6 cursed items, there is usually one blessed +4 type. In any case, the "apply weapon" part didn't occur to me, usually because I don't know if the weapon in question is cursed or not (apply means equip, even for a moment, heh)

One thing to keep in mind: you can throw almost ANYTHING. Throw food at pet's to train them how to fetch. Throw spare knives, arrows without a bow, rocks, or axes at those damned Large Eyes (and then pick them off the floor and try again - this process is called dancing).

Two other tips for you:

1. Kill a wraith and eat it's body. Instant level up.
2. If you see a nurse, take off your armor and let her hit you. Instead of taking damage your max HP goes up. A common practice for extremely high level players is to trap a nurse in a room, take some damage, and then take the armor off for healing and max HP up (since the nurse disappears if you abuse the max HP boost). Alternating between taking damage and gaining HP is called 'Nurse Dancing'.

My current burning question is: how can you remove accidentally/inadvertently equipped cursed items? I found a priest in the mines and tried #praying, donating lots of money, etc., but that damned mattock wouldn't drop. Then a bunch of Uruk-Hai swarmed the temple and the twelfth one or so killed me. ;P

Cheap uncurse scrolls are the quickest way (whenever you "feel like someone is helping you", a curse is removed.) God will rarely help out on that regard, but it helps to be on an altar. Sacrificing for your god seems to convince him to make it happen faster.

The best way, however, involves gathering holy water.

1. If you don't have any clear potions, take ones you DO have (that you don't mind losing), and dip them in water until they clear up)
2. Drop all of the clear potions you have on a co-aligned altar.
3. Pray to god and the potions on the altar will begin to glow. Even if they aren't identified, they're holy water now. You can dip any cursed item in holy water to uncurse it, and any uncursed item to bless it. (You expend 1 potion per dip, and obviously you need to be on good terms with god since this is also a regular prayer).

Sacrificing monsters (with the exception of coaligned unicorns, pets, horses, or people of the same race as you) on a co-aligned altar speeds up the prayer time out, increases your luck, and eventually has your god create some named weapons for you.

BTW, on the subject of ASCII vs. tiles ... representations. It's a great combination of ASCII clarity with tileset legibility.

I'll try it out, but remember with normal tile mode you can press F4 to crunch the playfield so it fits on screen. Alternatively you could try the windows version of Nethack, which plays in a Window and at higher resolutions can stretch across the screen.

I'm not really a fan of ascii monsters because a given letter can represent a lot of things.

1. What's the best way to kill leprachauns quickly?

Magic. Well, anything ranged. Leprachauns have a very tough time getting off the same floor, so sometimes its just a matter of running them down. This brings to mind another important topic in the game: speed.

Speed is the most important tribute in Nethack. Burden yourself with too many items, and every step takes 1.25, 1.5, 2, or more turns to do. Monsters will be able to move more often while you drag your ass around.

The most fearsome enemy in the game, the Air Elemental, can move at 4x speed. I can count a dozen deaths where my game seemed to be going good, but the AE hit me 5 times before I could attack.

Consider finding boots of speed to be a priority. Potions of Speed work well in the meantime, and if you're not already fast, eat a quantum mechanic (warning: it's human) and hope for the best. "Your speed is very uncertain. You feel faster!"

2. Once you beat the last dungeon, do you have to go ALL the way back up to the exit that leads outside on the floor you first start on?

Sort of. The bottom floor of the Dungeon is actually the Soldier's castle - below that is the valley of the dead, followed by, well, some even tougher floors (I'm generalizing things btw), and the Wizard at the very bottom. Steal his amulet, and you have to reclimb all the way back to Level 1.

The problem is, the Wizard comes back to life every 20 turns or so, he can steal the amulet and start heading back down, and he's no slouch in the fighting department.

Heading above Level 1 with the amulet takes you to four elemental planes (unbelievably difficult), followed by a fifth plane with incarnations (death, pestilence, the whole lot) and your ticket to winning.

3. What is the Stethoscope used for?

Already well explained, but I should say you can use it on enemies too.

4. Is there anyway to fry up a corpse and turn it into edible food?

Nope. If it's not edible now, you can't make it edible later. However, with monsters you CAN eat, you can use a tinning kit to turn them into tinned meat. Tinned meat always has a percentage chance of becoming Spinach (intentional pop-eye joke, your STR goes up by 1).

The danger of tinned meat comes with the type. Tinning randomly "cooks" the meat. You won't get food poisoning this way (unless the meat is supposed to do that), but the unhealthy cooked types (such as fried) will make your fingers greasy and cause you to drop your weapon. Wipe with a towel or just keep re-equipping until the grease goes away.

5. Can ranger dual-wield? (or any of the classes for that matter)

#twoweapon. Your backup weapon (toggled with x) becomes the second weapon. This only works if they are both one handed weapons. Check your proficiency list (alt+e) to see if twoweapon is a skill you can build over time.

6. Where's the best place to get a shovel so I can dig up graves?

That's a really dangerous profession. There are no shovels, just grab a pickaxe and dig down (.) If that doesn't work, a wand of digging used down does the trick.

The best way to gain great items involves the bones file. Play often enough, heart-breakingly lose some great characters along the way, and eventually you will see their ghost. Kill the ghost and take back all of the equipment they had (keep in mind it's probably not identified, and the status on everything is reversed (uncursed = cursed, blessed = uncursed, cursed = blessed, so expect to have a lot of great but cursed stuff).

7. Assuming you can manage not to get killed, about how long would it take to beat the game? 20 to 30 mins?

I've seen some insanely lucky speed runs, but expect 4+ hours AT BEST. The odds are just so far against you that my closest to ascension game probably ran more than 50 hours. (I finally got owned in the Water plane, which is the most ridiculously tough level I've ever heard of).

The general goal in life for Nethack players is to ascend and then post about their ascension on the Nethack newsgroup. As of version 3.3 and up, NH started keeping track of "voluntary challenges", which pretty much originated on usenet. You'll see some of those "challenges" every time you die. Believe it or not, I've heard of people who have managed to ascend as pacifists.
 

ballhog

Member
This rocks, I have heard people talk about Nethack before but it never really registered with me what it is. I used to play Rogue all the time when I was a kid. Thats where I learned the word "quaff". Any way I went to the site someone linked to, and holy shit, there is actually a mac version. I can't wait to get home and quaff some shit.
 

User 406

Banned
The fastest way to kill a leprechaun is to drop all your gold and start hitting him. He won't teleport away if he doesn't steal anything from you. Note that you should not hit him when you are standing over your pile of gold, since he'll snatch some from beneath you and teleport away.
 

Lathentar

Looking for Pants
Yesterday I thought I had the start of a good game. I found a blessed spellbook of Identify... so my monk could ID anything at anytime.

Stupid me to over estimate my power and I got owned because I didn't heal.
 
ballhog said:
Quick question, when I go down stairs, my kitten dosen't come with me. What's the deal?

Your pet has to be directly adjacent (up/down/left/right or the diagonals) to go down the stairs with you.

Of course, if you have a magic whistle, you can just teleport them. Or if you put them on a leash, they can never leave the adjacent directions (although a leash tends to make them surly).
 

Ecrofirt

Member
Maybe one of you guys can figure this out. I can't walk through this doorway, and searching the entire room does nothing. There's another door just like this on the same level. What the heck do I do?

net.PNG
 

dog$

Hates quality gaming
You'll need to search in the doorways itself (to see if one of those lead further down a hall) or just search next to one of those doors a lot to see if another door on the same wall is there.

Or if you're on later levels you can wander around and hope a rock mole or dwarf+mattock shows up. What dungeon level are you in?
 
Crazymoogle said:
In any case, the "apply weapon" part didn't occur to me, usually because I don't know if the weapon in question is cursed or not (apply means equip, even for a moment, heh)

Well, if your class is of a type that uses a bashing-type weapon regularly (axe, mattock, etc.) you can apply your equipped weapon, which is hopefully not cursed. ;)

Crazymoogle said:
I'll try it out, but remember with normal tile mode you can press F4 to crunch the playfield so it fits on screen. Alternatively you could try the windows version of Nethack, which plays in a Window and at higher resolutions can stretch across the screen.

I'm not really a fan of ascii monsters because a given letter can represent a lot of things.

I've been using the Windows Nethack. :) The ASCII monsters in the tile set I recommended are cleverly modified to distinguish them from one another ... a Gnome is a blue G, a Gnome Lord is a blue G with a small, yellow crown, a Gnome Zombie is a grey, mottled G, etc.

Crazymoogle said:
Speed is the most important tribute in Nethack. Burden yourself with too many items, and every step takes 1.25, 1.5, 2, or more turns to do. Monsters will be able to move more often while you drag your ass around.

Is this true even before you reach the "burdened" status? I always try to stay unburdened, at least, but am curious if there's degrees of, uh, burdenedness. (i.e. I am taking a speed hit even though the game isn't notifying me of anysuchthing)

Crazymoogle said:
I've seen some insanely lucky speed runs, but expect 4+ hours AT BEST. The odds are just so far against you that my closest to ascension game probably ran more than 50 hours. (I finally got owned in the Water plane, which is the most ridiculously tough level I've ever heard of).

Are there any programs that record/playback Nethack games? I'd imagine the files would be relatively small, and I'd love to just watch an expert player ascend through the whole thing...

Crazymoogle said:
As of version 3.3 and up, NH started keeping track of "voluntary challenges", which pretty much originated on usenet. You'll see some of those "challenges" every time you die. Believe it or not, I've heard of people who have managed to ascend as pacifists.

The story of Patito the Neutral Gnomish Pacifist makes for some humbling reading.

Thanks again for all your help - I find it highly amusing that my two big games this fall will seemingly be NetHack and World of Warcraft - what can I say, I like killing things, lots and lots of things! My major issue now is going to be learning to ID spells and potions in a non-fatal and informative manner. ;) Too many times,I throw a potion at an enemy and all it says is "it smells bad" or something. :p Practice makes perfect.
 
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