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[flarkminator]

Jeez man, excuse me for not lapping up PR drivel from game previews and instead relying on my reactions to the companies previous work. And really I would have liked it if you had responded to my (valid, reasonable) criticisms and sparked an actual honest to goodness interesting gaming discussion on GAF rather than your pointless sarcastic one liner.

Hell not only am I just basing my negative view of Oblivion on not liking Morrowind. I am basing it on an interview I read from Bethseda about the differences between Fallout and the Elder Scrolls game. The man came right out and stated the major differences between the two series which prompts a Bethseda to take a much different tack when approaching Fallout 3 as opposed to Oblivion and everything he said about Fallout is what I look for in a RPG style experience and everything he stated about Elder Scrolls leaves me disinterested. (Troika you died one game too soon )

Bethseda up to this point makes games that are just not for me. For the reasons that I stated clearly, concisely (and without any attempt at insult humour for a change) when I talked about the issues I had with Morrowind. Spare me your derision.

Your valid reasoning previously was that because it did not exist in a previous version of a game, it will not exist in a succeded version of a game. That, imo, is bad logic. For example, Game A does not have online play, therefore I will completely disregard its sequals (even though all the information we've read is pointing to a online component.) As for you NEXT arguemtn which you have now brought to the table. This wasn't part of the previous statement you made, so I don't know why you're using to say I was unjustified.

On a side note, I love a link to the article so I can readi t.

 

[pj]

I think this issue is that since you will no longer be given directions, you no longer have to go scouting for the places, you just look on your map and go there. Which definitely seems 'dumbed-down'.

There was lots of that in morrowind, and I much preferred it to the times when you were simply told "a short walk to the west" or something, and it actually turns out to be a long walk to the north.

 

[MonkeyLicker]

Has there been any info discussed on how you're using the 360 CPU?
I'm curious about how many of the cores you're using and to what extent they're using them.

 

[Azih]

Your valid reasoning previously was that because it did not exist in a previous version of a game, it will not exist in a succeded version of a game. That, imo, is bad logic.

My valid reasoning is that the company has not made games that I like in the past and so I will not buy their next game. You know but I can't think of a more valid chain of thought? What's next? I say I'm not going to go see an Uwe Boll flick because the previous ones were crap and you jump all over that too? And to top it all of you told me to DISREGARD my own personal experiences with Bethseda games and instead rely on game marketing PR approved preview hooey? Man I shoulda gone off on you harder.

On a side note, I love a link to the article so I can readi t.

http://www.duckandcover.cx/content.php?id=66

relevant bit is the one where he talks about super deep NPCs in Fallout and how you really can't do that a lot in Oblivion that much otherwise you compromise what it means to be an Elder Scrolls game. I read that and nodded and went 'yup I agree with you, that's why I don't like Elder Scrolls games'. Oblivion is in the end an ELDER SCROLLS GAME a series whose interests I don't share at all coming from Betseda, a company that has made games that are weak in the exact areas that I find enjoyment.

 

[teh_pwn]

I'm just going to ignore the hype, pick up Oblivion on X360 or PC and enjoy it.

 

[Shaheed79]

from the sounds of Obvlivion though the new combat system has a more reflexive nature to it, what with actually controlling when you block and what not, I could be wrong. But that is what I remember from reading about it.

I am a fellow Daggerfall fanboy because to me that was the height of the series in scope and diversity but Oblivion's combat from the movies looks like more of the same just more fine-tuned. I was hoping for a total over-haul of the combat without resorting to Fable style combos but maybe that is asking too much. I would keep the combat mostly stat based but maybe include limited combo's in certain high-level fighting techniques that would drain a stamina meter or require a charge. ES is all about strategy and they should keep it that way. I think most of the people who had trouble with the combat didn't understand the system. All weapons have a hit ratio depending on weight and length so the bigger the weapon the harder it is to hit someone especially if your proficiency in that weapon skill is low. The advantage of the bigger weapons are that they deal much more damage upon contact as the smaller dagger like weapons do less damage but have a much higher hit ratio.

I remember the Ebony Dagger in Daggerfall that you could start the game with if you answered the questions a certain way and that would be you best weapon your first 40 or so Hours of the game until you learn how to create and enchant your own magic weapons. Most console gamers don't have the mind for the Elder's Scroll games because it is a series built upon all the best and most detailed aspects of PCRPG's which are generally much more complicated than Console FPS's. Fable is a weaksauce RPG for weaksauce RPG Console Gamers and Oblivion will be what the series has always been just much better executed.

 

[flarkminator]

My valid reasoning...

After reading the article I realized that we were talking about different things. And I can see now what you were talking about. About how specific NPC wouldn't be personalized with the player because the world is just so big that there isn't the time to put that special time of character intot he game. I was thinking more along different lines as far as NPC interaction and reactions. It was a good read.

 

[Pachinko]

My only 2 complaints with morrowind would have to be addressed in order to get me interested in Oblivion- I want to play the game in a 3rd person zelda style camera and have my sword stab the rat and kill it instead of doing a dice roll behind the scenes. The other complaint I had with Morrowind was , on xbox atleast, the graphics were well... lacking. I believe the quote os 12 FPS with slowdown or whatever. It gave me a headache.

Mostly though it was the combat , it flat out wasn't fun and I really don't know how anyone could find it fun, this wasnt' a turn based game and shouldnt' be subject to turn based gaming rules. You swing your sword at enemy X and if enemy X is inside of swords radius then enemy X gets damaged for whatever sword can deal.

 

[MomoPufflet]

Morrowind is like a less polished version of what Fable's original [read: hyped] vision was. Morrowind (and hopefully even moreso Oblivion) delivers the content that Fable wishes it had. The main problem with Morrowind however has always been graphics, collision, animation, etc... hopefully Oblivion will overcome those problems.

 

[Optimistic]

Comparing Fable to the Elder Scrolls series is a perfect example of the apples to oranges analogy. Elder Scrolls focuses on depth, non-linearity, and everything but the kitchen sink, at the cost of relatively weak presentation and detail etc etc. Fable is the opposite. Both have their strengths, but I'm hoping either Oblivion or Fable 2 reach the happy medium between the two approaches. I really enjoyed Morrowind but the world was static, ugly, and (after around 50 hours :lol ) repetitive. Fable's world was much less static, way prettier and in many ways more polished, but within 20 hours I'd seen and done everything I possibly could in the game.

Ideally I'd want a game that mixes the two, so Fable's graphics, presentation and interactivity, with Morrowind's expansiveness, depth and variety.

 

[Synth_floyd]

I think it's a decent comparison. The early hype for Fable/Project Ego was that it would be this huge open ended RPG where you can do anything and all your actions affect the world greatly and it would be a large scope. The game was also hyped up to no end. Oblivion isn't the same but I think the comparison is apt.

 

[Azih]

After reading the article I realized that we were talking about different things. And I can see now what you were talking about. About how specific NPC wouldn't be personalized with the player because the world is just so big that there isn't the time to put that special time of character intot he game. I was thinking more along different lines as far as NPC interaction and reactions. It was a good read.

The problem with weak NPCs goes further than that. Sure morrowind lets you do whatever you want. But since barely any of the NPCs acknowledge the great grand things you're accomplishing the world feels extremely static to me. I freaking killed Vivec, I killed their damn god and did any of the citizens of the city run from me screaming or fall to their knees to beg for mercy? Nope, sure the game let me kill Vivec (in a really long, boring, and tedious fight btw) but it didn't provide an aftermath at all. And that's true for every quest and mission. You can fight your way to the head of any organisation in the game but there's no in game prestige reward. What is the point of becoming a god if no one runs screaming? The most you get is a few stutters when you finish the main arc.

 

[Zaptruder]

How's the combat going to be? Will there be more than one swing animation?

But that could be confusing, trying to get a swing from the left only to have your character thrust unwarrantedly...

maybe it could use a Soul Calibur type system, where direction combined with simple chains of horizontal or vertical sweeps can determine how the character pulls off combos. Even without the use of two buttons, it could still include some amount of variety with the moves, depending on whether you were crouching, rising from crouching, where you put motion into on which particular link and all that jazz (just look at the moveset for any character in SC; they all have chains that features only one button).

 

[SteveMeister]

Why, it just so happens that I wrote an article about Oblivion's combat system for the official ElderScrolls.com website...

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

I don't see Oblivion having the same production values as Fable. The design, music and voice acting in Fable were top notch compared to Elder Scrolls' boring run-of-the-mill assets.

 

[SteveMeister]

I don't see Oblivion having the same production values as Fable. The design, music and voice acting in Fable were top notch compared to Elder Scrolls' boring run-of-the-mill assets.

Yeah, Patrick Stewart sure is run-of-the-mill. And good job hearing all the music, when we haven't released any of it yet. I will grant you that scenes like this are certainly run-of-the-mill in today's games:

...not.

But hey, we're all entitled to our own opinions.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Yeah, Patrick Stewart sure is run-of-the-mill. And good job hearing all the music, when we haven't released any of it yet. I will grant you that scenes like this are certainly run-of-the-mill in today's games:

...not.

But hey, we're all entitled to our own opinions.

That could easily be a photograph of the great Canadian wilderness, but I suppose that's what some people look for in a fantasy universe.

 

[Synth_floyd]

I don't mean this as an attack on Oblivion but Patrick Stewart really is run of the mill. Ever character he plays is the same. He isn't an actor, he's a charicature (the deep british Shakespearean voice. Whenever anyone needs that, they just call up Pat and he'll do it). I guess that's what the Oblivion devs were going for but still. Also he already did the voice over work as the king in Lands of Lore (an old PC RPG) and the king in that game also dies. So I thought that the choice of Stewart for the king was pretty generic but this isn't really a major gripe as his character dies right at the beginning of the game.

 

[Pellham]

The problem with weak NPCs goes further than that. Sure morrowind lets you do whatever you want. But since barely any of the NPCs acknowledge the great grand things you're accomplishing the world feels extremely static to me. I freaking killed Vivec, I killed their damn god and did any of the citizens of the city run from me screaming or fall to their knees to beg for mercy? Nope, sure the game let me kill Vivec (in a really long, boring, and tedious fight btw) but it didn't provide an aftermath at all. And that's true for every quest and mission. You can fight your way to the head of any organisation in the game but there's no in game prestige reward. What is the point of becoming a god if no one runs screaming? The most you get is a few stutters when you finish the main arc.

I will grant you that weak NPCs have been a part of the Elder Scroll series, but everything that I've read about Oblivion is supposed to change that. How can you not like the idea of radiant AI, where the NPC will actually carry out a life schedule? (I've seen this done only in the Ultima games, where NPCs went to bed, went to work, breaked for lunch, etc.). And you are supposed to be able to carry meaningful/realistic conversations with NPCs now. Like if a guy doesn't want to talk to you, he won't, or something. That's completely different from the way dialogue was in Morrowind (which admittedly was a glaring flaw, it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game though).

I'm under the impression that they overhauled the NPCs because of all of the complaints, such as yours. I haven't read the Fallout interview though, i'm going to do that right now.

 

[pj]

Yeah, Patrick Stewart sure is run-of-the-mill. And good job hearing all the music, when we haven't released any of it yet. I will grant you that scenes like this are certainly run-of-the-mill in today's games:

...not.

But hey, we're all entitled to our own opinions.

What is the deal with that blurry area that's about the same height as the deer and a bit to the right of it?

And in trippingmartian's defense, elderscrolls' artwork isn't typically as interesting as what's in something like fable. Probably because there's about 50 times as much, so there's not as much time to make everything look awesome. It's like comparing PGR2's nyc to GTA3's. BUT, bland visuals didn't keep me from playing morrowind for 400 hours, and oblivion seems to be a marked improvement in visual design (more interesting architecture and armor, most notably), not to mention the quality of the graphics.

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

Imo, the next-gen begins when this game drops.
And, imo, Fable and Morrowind could both have been better if the one would have been slightly more like the other, going both ways.