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[Tomeru]

How so? Go and re-read those chapters now.

I've read it so many times already. Just like peoples' perception of things/subjects/issues change with times, so does their criticism/judgement of them. And yours is just a victim of the recent years. Difference is that Berserk is from two decades ago.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I've read it so many times already. Just like peoples' perception of things/subjects/issues change with times, so does their criticism/judgement of them. And yours is just a victim of the recent years. Difference is that Berserk is from two decades ago.

While true, even fans frame it as Guts getting revenge for what Griffith did to Casca. Fans frame it in the view that it's about Guts getting revenge for what happened to his lover. You see it in this very thread,"the rape of Casca is pivotal to Guts' motivations." When reading it, it shows the disposition between Casca/Griffith and Guts' fury. Remember, as I noted earlier, that the scene clearly depicts Casca in erotic poses. Griffith having sex with her in cowgirl position, sucking her nipples all types of crap. Barely in the manga does it look like Casca protests beyond telling Griffith no or telling Guts to look away. There's no fight, no struggle. Just Griffith having his "fun" while Casca moans. On the other opposite pages, you have Guts' pure anger and fury. It's almost as if what's supposed to get readers angry is the fact that the (new) villain is having his way with the main characters girlfriend more than the act itself.

I think the old 90's anime handles it much better, which can be seen here, and even then I almost still think the anime applies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QktFJZa1voI

 

[televator]

It says alot about how fucked the state of japanese video game marketing is, when they pull shit like this.

Can't wait to see the cosplays. /s

 

[UrbanDandy]

After so many years of developing games, Tecmo-Koei (of Japan) isn't going to change. I'm in the majority here; it is unsettling for the rape scene to take center place. I legit even rolled my eyes that they used said scene for the teaser

Spoiler

rather than use a post tortured Grifith with the egg

.

I'm pretty sure that the marketing strategy for the western markets will be different and maybe won't include this DLC.

I'm still in shock after the teaser came out and DLC info was released that quickly. Usually that's reserved after the second trailer.

 

[Dahbomb]

I've seen plenty of weird claims about Berkserk over the years, including one that says he rapes the demon at the very start of the manga, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone make that claim, joking or no.

Wut... that's a new one for me.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I've seen plenty of weird claims about Berkserk over the years, including one that says he rapes the demon at the very start of the manga, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone make that claim, joking or no.

Reference to this post:

They became gritty and powerful and strong and stoic and conquering, while she becomes a mute baby-woman. It's completely different.

 

[berserk_ftw]

I really hope that this is not real, would be tasteless in the context of the story.

But seeing the picture of the 3D model is even worse as I think that they did a poor job in getting the faces right.

 

[Tomeru]

While true, even fans frame it as Guts getting revenge for what Griffith did to Casca. Fans frame it in the view that it's about Guts getting revenge for what happened to his lover. You see it in this very thread,"the rape of Casca is pivotal to Guts' motivations." When reading it, it shows the disposition between Casca/Griffith and Guts' fury. Remember, as I noted earlier, that the scene clearly depicts Casca in erotic poses. Griffith having sex with her in cowgirl position, sucking her nipples all types of crap. Barely in the manga does it look like Casca protests beyond telling Griffith no or telling Guts to look away. There's no fight, no struggle. Just Griffith having his "fun" while Casca moans. On the other opposite pages, you have Guts' pure anger and fury. It's almost as if what's supposed to get readers angry is the fact that the (new) villain is having his way with the main characters girlfriend more than the act itself.

I think the old 90's anime handles it much better, which can be seen here, and even then I almost still think the anime applies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QktFJZa1voI

At that point she is already mentally broken. Her rape is pivotal to Guts' motivation, but it's not the only thing. Everything that happens during the eclipse is pivotal to Guts' motivation, and if I'll go by your line of thought, then I'll surmise that the murder of everyone there is something to be ignored all around, and was all setup to show the reader an erotic rape scene. Which is ridiculous.

The murder of the entire band, and the rape of Casca by their dear dear friend (at the time) and role model. This is all about the ultimate betrayal. These are demons from medieval stories. It serves to show how Griffith is scarring his two closest friends before killing them. It is about making an impact in the best(worst) demonic sense. If you get hung on the graphic details instead of trying to understand their role in the story, than you are just belittling the magnitude of the mental scarring the characters go through.

 

[Baalzebup]

While true, even fans frame it as Guts getting revenge for what Griffith did to Casca. Fans frame it in the view that it's about Guts getting revenge for what happened to his lover. You see it in this very thread,"the rape of Casca is pivotal to Guts' motivations." When reading it, it shows the disposition between Casca/Griffith and Guts' fury. Remember, as I noted earlier, that the scene clearly depicts Casca in erotic poses. Griffith having sex with her in cowgirl position, sucking her nipples all types of crap. Barely in the manga does it look like Casca protests beyond telling Griffith no or telling Guts to look away. There's no fight, no struggle. Just Griffith having his "fun" while Casca moans. On the other opposite pages, you have Guts' pure anger and fury. It's almost as if what's supposed to get readers angry is the fact that the (new) villain is having his way with the main characters girlfriend more than the act itself.

I think the old 90's anime handles it much better, which can be seen here, and even then I still think the anime applies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QktFJZa1voI

This description is kind of missing some of the factors in play in that scene. For one, Guts is Guts, his whole character theme is his refusal to sit down and die. Expecting any other character to resist and struggle to equal degree would be unfitting of what the series portrays. There can be only one 'ultimate' survivor.

As for Casca, she was already mentally exhausted from all that had happened over the year since Guts left. The brief respite she and Guts shared could hardly allow for anything close to full recovery. She is then assaulted by a gribbering horde of unspeakable horrors who have been busy slaughtering her comrades in an orgy of blood and torn limbs. She is barely conscious, spent both mentally and physically, when she is brought before the man she has worshiped for a greater part of her life, a man for whom she had been willing to do anything he asked. The part of her enjoying the act is part of why the scene is so damn twisted. It combines the callousness and pettiness of the deed by Femto, Guts' helplessness to do anything about the situation and Casca's twisted situation of being raped by the man she worships, in front of the man she loves.

Your analysis of the visuals is accurate by and itself, but missing some of the context. Everything is connected.

Wut... that's a new one for me.

Oh, people who actually and actively hate on Berserk will invent and twist things as well as any politician. Here, direct quote from a manga forum that I occasionally post at:

oh please. On the first chapter,
Spoiler (highlight to view)
HE rapes a monster.....what the hell was that about? What kind of a hunter RAPES monsters and then kills them?

Reference to this post:

Huh, I missed that one. Really misses the point of... well, pretty much everything.

 

[Moaradin]

I don't believe Schierke or Isma ever has and his point was that it doesn't happen in the series all that often despite many claiming otherwise and its usually tied to specific events and characters.

Spoiler

Wyald and the Goat Man for example

In the last few arcs there is only one section, the one with the trolls, otherwise there really hasn't been much at all that I can think on.

Edit: Also the most disgusting and horrible section of the storyline involved no rape or sexual violence

Spoiler

The Lost Children Arc is by and far the most disturbing arc in my opinion. Lets not forget the fairy children Roshine was creating and their little games

Oh that arc definitely has it. I remember a scene where the fairies are playing and

Spoiler

one of them said something like "adult attack!" before penetrating another one with its stinger.

That arc is easily the most fucked up thing in Berserk.

 

[ZeroGravity]

The poster has an avatar featuring an unrealistically proportioned anime ninja girl who's about to expose her tits. It's not irrational to assume that his opinions on an incredibly sensitive topic that revolves around the depiction of females being sexually vulnerable in media aren't all that mature..

As opposed to the maturity of someone who dismisses the opinion of another based on a internet forum avatar. If you have a problem with his position, address is directly instead of resorting to childish garbage like this.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

At that point she is already mentally broken. Her rape is pivotal to Guts' motivation, but it's not the only thing. Everything that happens during the eclipse is pivotal to Guts' motivation, and if I'll go by your line of thought, then I'll surmise that the murder of everyone there is something to be ignored all around, and was all setup to show the reader an erotic rape scene. Which is ridiculous.

The murder of the entire band, and the rape of Casca by their dear dear friend (at the time) and role model. This is all about the ultimate betrayal. These are demons from medieval stories. It serves to show how Griffith is scarring his two closest friends before killing them. It is about making an impact in the best(worst) demonic sense. If you get hung on the graphic details instead of trying to understand their role in the story, than you are just belittling the magnitude of the mental scarring the characters go through.

For what it's worth I agree with you. I'm a fan of Berserk and in no way think the rape is the only pivotal part of the story. I'm only talking about within the context of the rape. I can buy that by that point she was already mentally broken and it's what I've always thought. But the visual doesn't add to that theory, at least in the manga version. I'm not talking about anything besides the rape. Remember that the original subject was Berserk and ereocticized rape.

As opposed to the maturity of someone who dismisses the opinion of another based on a internet forum avatar. If you have a problem with his position, address is directly instead of resorting to childish garbage like this.

Oh please. How would anyone respond? Are the other replies to him that much more mature? How - or more importantly why - would anyone try to take such a drive by post seriously? Miss me with this mess. Talking about positions and maturity when this dude straight up strolled through this thread with a heavy subject and trolled an awful doo doo post. Stop being goofy, breh.

 

[Tomeru]

For what it's worth I agree with you. I'm a fan of Berserk and in no way think the rape is the only pivotal part of the story. I'm only talking about within the context of the rape. I can buy that by that point she was already mentally broken and it's what I've always thought. But the visual doesn't add to that theory, at least in the manga version. I'm not talking about anything besides the rape. Remember that the original subject was Berserk and ereocticized rape..

Yeah, but thats hardly a fair assessment. This topic still ignores context. You can take any scene and discuss it by itself, but if you ignore everything the led to that point, the characters involved, their character, their motives, their past... It's not worth any real consideration imo.

And I don't agree she enjoyed any part of it. Maybe if that's the only part of Berserk one ever read/watched.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Yeah, but thats hardly a fair assessment. This topic still ignores context. You can take any scene and discuss it by itself, but if you ignore everything the led to that point, the characters involved, their character, their motives, their past... It's not worth any real consideration imo.

And I don't agree she enjoyed any part of it. Maybe if that's the only part of Berserk you ever read/watched.

The aftermath shows she definitely didn't enjoy it and any Berseek fan knows this. It's the basis of this thread. But the actual act shows it almost as if she's enjoying. That's the problem. The story recognizes it's a vile act and still dresses it up as almost sexy. Either way, something interesting to debate about.

 

[Tomeru]

The aftermath shows she definitely didn't enjoy it and any Berseek fan knows this. It's the basis of this thread. But the actual act shows it almost as if she's enjoying. That's the problem. The story recognizes it's a vile act and still dresses it up as almost sexy. Either way, something interesting to debate about.

So we ignore said context after all.

 

[Corpekata]

As opposed to the maturity of someone who dismisses the opinion of another based on a internet forum avatar. If you have a problem with his position, address is directly instead of resorting to childish garbage like this.

What is his position?

Get upset about the great anime avatar persecution all you want but it doesn't change the fact the guy was shitposting in the first place.

 

[ubique]

The aftermath shows she definitely didn't enjoy it and any Berseek fan knows this. It's the basis of this thread. But the actual act shows it almost as if she's enjoying. That's the problem. The story recognizes it's a vile act and still dresses it up as almost sexy. Either way, something interesting to debate about.

I agree that the rape scenes in Berserk can be interpreted as insensitive or even eroticized, which is inexcusable, but I've always interpreted Casca's behavior in that part as her mind beginning to slip. I think it's an attempt to make her appear out of control of her actions, not actually enjoying it.

 

[UrbanRats]

WOOAAHHHHH, let's not get carried away here

Will say tho as someone who originally watched the anime and then read the manga really out of order I thought the Wyald part was unnecessary and kinda hampered the impact of the Eclipse. But only a tiiinnny bit.

Anyways read the manga and then Berserk Abridged

Edit Is Wyald not in the movies either? Ehhh that's fiinne

The Manga is much better than the anime in my opinion, rape or no rape.
And Wyald is a great character in the world of Berserk, probably the best representation of what the apostoles are supposed to be (once he turns back to human), and sorts of foreshadows the fuckery of the Eclipse.

It's not like removing a couple of his chapters would change anything anyway, when it comes to amount of violence in the story.

I honestly think that some of the stuff that gets criticized (see also the Farnese/horse scene) as ridiculous and out of place, is actually some of the most interesting material, at least in theory.
If anything it's other stuff surrounding it that makes it look more out of place, but if we look at medieval dark fantasy horror, or even imagery like the classic image of goat head Satan with two snakes climbing up his penis, the sexual imagery wasn't really an extraneous element to the idea of evil, and the temptations of the darker side (given the amount of sexual repression the Church commanded).
So it's not the monsters having a dick the problem, or them having rape and cannibalism as a recurring "threat", just the way it's "shot", that makes it look ambiguously lingering and preposterously erotic, depending on the scene.

What is his position?

Get upset about the great anime avatar persecution all you want but it doesn't change the fact the guy was shitposting in the first place.

Responding to shit-posting with shit-posting, only doubles the amount of shit on the thread.
It's not only asinine and unnecessary, but also creates a ripple effect of people complaining about "avatar shaming", and people responding to those complaints with "lol anime fans".
It's just an embarrassing shit-show all around.
Solution: Address the shit-posting as shit-posting (if you really have to, ignoring is also a good idea) instead of pointlessly trying to have an unrelated cheap-shot like that.

Between people with anime avatars and videogame avatars and wrestling avatars, you could fuel the whole forum making fun of other people's opinions sorely based on their avatars, otherwise (since you know, NeoGAF is a gaming forum).

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

So we ignore said context after all.

I don't ignore context at all and you're not listening to what I'm saying.

I agree that the rape scenes in Berserk can be interpreted as insensitive or even eroticized, which is inexcusable, but I've always interpreted Casca's behavior in that part as her mind beginning to slip. I think it's an attempt to make her appear out of control of her actions, not actually enjoying it.

It can be interpreted in many ways. For sure.

Responding to shit-posting with shit-posting, only doubles the amount of shit on the thread.
It's not only asinine and unnecessary, but also creates a ripple effect of people complaining about "avatar shaming", and people responding to those complaints with "lol anime fans".
It's just an embarrassing shit-show all around.
Solution: Address the shit-posting as shit-posting (if you really have to, ignoring is also a good idea) instead of pointlessly trying to have an unrelated cheap-shot like that.

Between people with anime avatars and videogame avatars and wrestling avatars, you could fuel the whole forum making fun of other people's opinions sorely based on their avatars, otherwise (since you know, NeoGAF is a gaming forum).

Just my 2 cents.

That guys post was already bad. I didn't go after him just because of his avatar. I'm basically telling him that no one cares what he thinks based off of his position. His avatar is besides the point. I'm talking about Berserk in a gaming forum. Clearly I'm ok with anime and manga. Also, people have pm'd me that my post was hilarious so I dunno about the shit posting thing. *shrug* Call it like I see it.

 

[Host Samurai]

Am I the only one that thinks the Tower of Conviction Arc is the most fucked up?

 

[HStallion]

Oh that arc definitely has it. I remember a scene where the fairies are playing and

Spoiler

one of them said something like "adult attack!" before penetrating another one with its stinger.

That arc is easily the most fucked up thing in Berserk.

True enough, I lumped that in with them playing war. That whole Lord of the flies but as elves thing was brutal.

Am I the only one that thinks the Tower of Conviction Arc is the most fucked up?

It is really fucked up but Mozgus was so over the top at times it was hilarious more than horrifying.

 

[Zolo]

Am I the only one that thinks the Tower of Conviction Arc is the most fucked up?

Eh...well....

It's up there.

 

[Kinyou]

Am I the only one that thinks the Tower of Conviction Arc is the most fucked up?

What is fucked up is that Miura didn't have to invent any of those devices we see in the torture room. All of those things were actually used during medieval times.

 

[RadioHeadAche]

I thought Mozgus was wearing a mask the whole time.

Nope

 

[Host Samurai]

I really just find religious/cult themes to be frightening. The power of somebody that can manipulate people and torture them for petty crimes. I truly felt sorry for the victims in that arc

 

[HStallion]

I really just find religious/cult themes to be frightening. The power of somebody that can manipulate people and torture them for petty crimes. I truly felt sorry for the victims in that arc

What nonsense he just wants to help

Also this image is accurate too!

 

[Parakeetman]

I really just find religious/cult themes to be frightening. The power of somebody that can manipulate people and torture them for petty crimes. I truly felt sorry for the victims in that arc

 

[StrangeRoboMemory]

They became gritty and powerful and strong and stoic and conquering, while she becomes a mute baby-woman. It's completely different.

Huh, I missed that one. Really misses the point of... well, pretty much everything.

Agh, okay, here's what I meant by that, and I don't think this is even an arguable point, honestly, it's completely self-evident. It's not that Guts or Griffith become stronger *because* of the sexual abuse that happened to them. That's not what I'm saying at all. I think it is obvious, though, that in the aftermath of that abuse, they rose up to become powerful and strong men who are the fractured heroes of a vast and epic and grim universe. They reacted to what happened to them with, yes, absolutely, trauma and PTSD, it made them crazy and hurt and they lashed out at the people around them. Guts didn't even want people to touch him, it's absolutely true. Griffith's mind became totally tortured, it's absolutely true. The way that they related to people was warped and painful, that's absolutely true. But they then responded with vengeance and anger and stoicism and and determination and grit and ambition.

Caska, on the other hand, has been a babbling baby-woman for 20 years. That doesn't mean that the story didn't earn that, that doesn't mean that what happened to her doesn't justify her situation, I get it, completely. But I think it's deeply untrue to say that comparing Guts/Griffith's abuse and their response to it vs. Caska's abuse and her response to it are similar in any way. They are completely different to me in every sense. Griffith and Guts become active participants in their own destiny and Caska becomes a relatively passive one. That's what I meant. I hope that clarifies my original point.

 

[Baalzebup]

Das clarification

It certainly does clarify it, and it makes much more sense with that. Your initial comment seemed to ignore the fact that their circumstances were also very different.