I would think it's counterproductive to do that anyway. Striking Iran unless it's in self-defense would guarantee more problems for Israel. I wouldn't think it's in their best interest.
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Israel 2013 Elections for the 19th Knesset |OT| - Your tax dollars at work!
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I would think it's counterproductive to do that anyway. Striking Iran unless it's in self-defense would guarantee more problems for Israel. I wouldn't think it's in their best interest.
its good and bad, having a system like Israel's gives a lot more power to minority's, which could very well be a good thing, but has so far been abused many times by the Haredi parties to insure the status-Que remain the same.
when a group does not care about certain issues that are important to the general populace (such as the left and right divide over the Palestinian issue over the years), they can use their votes as a way to join any government that will give them what they do care about.
Your confusion is because you think Bibi has the best interest of Israel in mind
I think he does, and while he certainly cares too much about his own political survival, I doubt he wants anything but the best for the country,even if I personally don't agree with him at all.
Recent polls showed him dipping in the polls, and that's the joint Likud-Yisrael Beitenu list which is supposed to only last until after the elections, and so far the voting rates are higher than expected which is bad for Bibi. I don't know if there's actually a chance hat he won't be the next PM, but even if he will, he'll probably have a weak coalition and we'll do this whole thing again in two years.
yep.
yah, that I agree with.
though if anything I would think a high election rate would be good for Bibi, but we shall see
Alright, that's it, I voted.
Again - Israelis, go out, it's a nice day, and vote. The voting percentage are already very high which is very good since it's considered to benefit left-wing parties. The polls, while not predicting a widespread change, are somewhat optimistic - The left is getting bigger, Meretz is at 6 seats in the polls, Hadash is at 4 and Eretz Hadasha and Da'am are both tickling the thershold needed to enter the Knesset. Bibi will probably be the next PM, but this is not what we're voting for, we're voting for a bigger democratic bloc, for less racism and less economy that favors the rich. It's a small change, but it might make living here slightly more bearable until we do all this again.
Israelis living abroad - Talk with your families and friends, you can make a difference as well.
That's all I have to say, and may the Labor party die in a fire for bombing me with text messeges. Yes, Shelly, shut the fuck up
EDIT: Oh wait, and remember voting is not the end of your democratic rights! Protests, activism and more are just as important. See you next summer in Rotschild.
Again - Israelis, go out, it's a nice day, and vote. The voting percentage are already very high which is very good since it's considered to benefit left-wing parties. The polls, while not predicting a widespread change, are somewhat optimistic - The left is getting bigger, Meretz is at 6 seats in the polls, Hadash is at 4 and Eretz Hadasha and Da'am are both tickling the thershold needed to enter the Knesset. Bibi will probably be the next PM, but this is not what we're voting for, we're voting for a bigger democratic bloc, for less racism and less economy that favors the rich. It's a small change, but it might make living here slightly more bearable until we do all this again.
Israelis living abroad - Talk with your families and friends, you can make a difference as well.
That's all I have to say, and may the Labor party die in a fire for bombing me with text messeges. Yes, Shelly, shut the fuck up
EDIT: Oh wait, and remember voting is not the end of your democratic rights! Protests, activism and more are just as important. See you next summer in Rotschild.
Surprising results! Netanyahu's easy victory evaporated into a one seat advantage:
61 seats for the Right/Religious parties
59 seats for the Left/Arab parties
He is going to be PM but it's going to have to be a very different kind of government in terms of its components. I'm pleased overall.
61 seats for the Right/Religious parties
59 seats for the Left/Arab parties
He is going to be PM but it's going to have to be a very different kind of government in terms of its components. I'm pleased overall.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Thats close! didnt expect that. Hopefully the left can form a viable opposition and take him down soon.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
That's only channel 2's exit poll, a few others are different.
If it's true though, it's possible Lapid could be given a shot at forming the next coalition. Very surprising, I must say.
speculawyer
Member
Damn! That is encouraging. Israel needs to shit or get off the pot regarding the territories.
Meus Renaissance
Member
The article claims its a error in translation and since I dont speak hebrew or whatever language he said it in I can't really argue. However here is a short quote from that same article:
'Eli Yishai is not saying Israel belongs to the white man. Eli Yishai is quoting the infiltrators, and it is the infiltrators who have said that Israel doesnt belong to the white man.'
Sorry but refering to Muslims as infiltrators lost all credibility that site could hold with me...
Could the left/Arab parties get the religous parties to join their coalition as long as they agree to the 'status quo' on free living for religious students?
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
The Arab parties never sit in government, not even leftist ones, so there's no real point counting them. Also, Lapid is against dividing Jerusalem among other things, so he's more centrist than left.
yes, the religious parties joining the left happened many times before, and it can certainly happen again.
though a right wing government is still the most likely scenario.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
with 99% of the vote counted its 60-60 among the blocs presently surprised with the Israeli's votes. This seems like its more a referendum on economic and domestic issues but in that region any government will have to deal with the peace process eventually
Live blog
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli...-israel-elections-2013-the-day-after-1.495776
Live blog
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli...-israel-elections-2013-the-day-after-1.495776
this election doesn't seem to really be about that. the new party is in favor of keeping the major settlements (which seems inevitable at this point)
BigJonsson
Member
I should have told my mom to register to vote, she is an Israeli citizen even though she was only there the first 6 months of her life
Not really, the left has 60 seats only if you count Lapid and Livni as left, which they're not and they're already talking about joining with Bibi. The coalition will be very fragile though and considering the challengeד facing Israel (passing a horrible budget, international pressure, peace negotiations), they won't survive a year and a half.
I don't know if it's good or bad.
what do you define as left? if its willingness to give up territories for peace, Olmert, which is linked to both Livni and Lapid was willing to give up a fair amount I thought.
Olmert was never considered on the "left". He's a former Likud member who joined Kadima, he's a centrist to the fullest meaning of the word. The term "left", seeing as how its almost of a curse word in Israel right now, is not just in terms of what he believes in or what the platform is, it's a political alignment. Olmert did not align himself with the Left-Zionist camp (Meretz and Avoda.) in association or platform.
Lapid is a centrist, and he leans to the right on economy. Will he be against building in the settlements? Will he improve welfare? Will he be against the next cycle of aggression in Gaza? He's a shoe-in in a right-wing government.
Angry Fork
Member
I know nothing about Israeli elections/politics, have some questions:
1. Is the country as a whole right wing/staunch religious?
2. What kind of results are expected for left wing parties?
3. How do people there feel about Netenyahu and the settlements?
4. Is the main issue in Israel about foreign policy/attack from other countries?
5. What are the necessary forces required to change Israeli opinion to be more liberal?
1. Is the country as a whole right wing/staunch religious?
2. What kind of results are expected for left wing parties?
3. How do people there feel about Netenyahu and the settlements?
4. Is the main issue in Israel about foreign policy/attack from other countries?
5. What are the necessary forces required to change Israeli opinion to be more liberal?
The country as a whole is leaning more and more the right (debatable.) There are many religious people in Israel, and they have a higher birth rate, but the secular population is still the majority (28 seats of the knesset went to parties who are considered religious.)
Well, that ranged, depending on the party. In general, the only party defining itself as Left-Zionist is Meretz, the rest of the parties defining themselves as left are Non-Zionist: Hasash, Balad and UAL (United Arab List.)* The center bloc is usually merged into the left because of the lack of real left: Avoda, Livni, Lapid, Kadima.
So in general, I'd say the expectations of the center-bloc were to be big enough to bloc Bibi or to join him with bargaining powers. Meretz an the Non-Zionist Left probably just wanted to be a bigger opposition to whoever wins.
Well, Bibi ran out of most of the people sympathy. I don't think he's very liked but many people do not see anyone who could replace him (this is the failure of the "Anyone but bibi" mindset of the center-left, they failed to present a real alternative.) Settlement is most of a mixed bag, the big ones are considered legitimate by size (one of the bigger one just got a university.) The smaller one are considered populated by extremist and I'd say the public opinion is mostly divided on this issue.
Hmm... It's obviously always there, but I don't know if it was the major issue of these elections. Most of the parties ran on a ticket of better economy, more welfare, making the ultra-religious conscript like the rest of the country... Mostly internal issues. The peace process was MIA in the entire campaign and no one seem to care too much about it. Iran was forgotten weeks ago.
Ahh... Well, I have no idea. I personally think Israel still has a long way to go, and the essence of racism and such will remain for quite some time. Perhaps, at this point, the only thing that will save Israel from itself is a strong American ultimatum forcing the sides into negotiations. Other than that, maybe another protest wave, this time going all the way.
* - This is important because there's no chance a non-Zionist party will sit in any coalition.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Sometimes it feels like Iran gets more coverage in the West than in Israel
And to our non-Israeli readers, "non-Zionist party" is code for Arabs.
Well, today, yeah. We used to have people like Uri Avnery and Luba Aliav in the Non-Zionist bloc as well though (in, like, the 70's-80's). Also, Hadash has a couple ten thousands votes from Jewish voters.
Luba Aliav was not a non-zionist, and outside a single stint in shelly (של"י
he was elected through the labor party.I don't think he was black-balled by anyone.
But regardless of the past, we can all agree this is no relevant anymore - Meretz is as zionist as Hadash, but only the former has any chance of ever getting into a coalition.
oh? I would argue its quite the other way around, and that what people define themselves as matters little, unlike their actions and actual belief's, which matter a whole lot more.
This is a good result. If peace is what you're looking for, then realistically only the Likud could achieve real progress in that regard. When some Likud PM suddenly sees the light and decides to go for peace, the Left automatically supports him (as it should), but it obviously doesn't work the other way around. It's not fair but that's the way it works (see Begin and Sharon).
I doubt Netanyahu has the courage needed to do anything too dramatic, but the difference this time is that he can't do nothing for four years again. He will have to rely on Lapid and others like him and they won't let him ignore international pressure. The whole orientation of the government would be more moderate. Also, almost half of the Knesset has been replaced, many of them by worthy people. This is an improvement in every sense of the word and seeing how the polls were like just a week ago, I'd say it's a very good result.
I doubt Netanyahu has the courage needed to do anything too dramatic, but the difference this time is that he can't do nothing for four years again. He will have to rely on Lapid and others like him and they won't let him ignore international pressure. The whole orientation of the government would be more moderate. Also, almost half of the Knesset has been replaced, many of them by worthy people. This is an improvement in every sense of the word and seeing how the polls were like just a week ago, I'd say it's a very good result.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Hmm... Actually, I know that in Arabic, Hadash is getting closer and closer to Balad in platform. My girlfriend told me they're pretty nationalistic in their Arabic platform, while they present a different picture to Jewish voters (They are quite sympathetic to Assad in Arabic, for example.)Luba Aliav was not a non-zionist, and outside a single stint in shelly (של"י
I don't think he was black-balled by anyone.
But regardless of the past, we can all agree this is no relevant anymore - Meretz is as zionist as Hadash, but only the former has any chance of ever getting into a coalition.
The Zionism is one of the major issues that prevented Meretz and Hadash teaming up after the last elections (I heard Jumes say that in a party meeting.)
Luba didn't compete in his own list? I don't really remember anymore.
The supporting Assad angle is really overplayed, they had some unfortunate remarks early in the civil war, but that's about it.
They're on the record calling his regime illegitimate.
But more importantly, why does it matter?
Hadash will never be in a position where its opinion on the Syrian civil war will come into play; is this just another attempt to paint them as fifth column.
p.s.
Dov Hannin is the best parliamentarian in Israel, by far, and a good enough reason to vote for them if you ask me.
He competed, but didn't get it.
I met a couple of times, he was an amazing human being (obscure name dropping in the hizzie!)
Phantast2k
Member
Seems like this hasn't been posted, but apparently Netanyahu had some illustrious support:
Chuck Norris Endorsement for Prime Minister Netanyahu
Donald Trump Endorsement for Prime Minister Netanyahu
(per via Daily Show )
Chuck Norris Endorsement for Prime Minister Netanyahu
Donald Trump Endorsement for Prime Minister Netanyahu
(
This. In additon, The Likud has many devoted voters throughout the years, mostly 40+ years old.
Also, there are more religious regions, or regions more associated with the right. For example, I live in Tel Aviv and the vast majority of the voters here chose center/left parties (Lapid's Yesh Atid, Meretz and more). In comparison, Jerusalem's most popular party this election is Yehadut Ha'Torah (a Haredi party).
Sorry for not giving sources, I read the statistics on a local newspaper.
The statistics can be found at Bechirot.org, which did an excellent job this year in giving real-time information.
I still can't believe Da'am got about 3000 votes, what is wrong with people in this country
Oh well, we can always hope for next elections!
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Just read that Lapid said he plans to run for PM in the future. That will make any coalition fun!
http://www.timesofisrael.com/lapid-next-time-i-will-run-for-prime-minister-and-win/
http://www.timesofisrael.com/lapid-next-time-i-will-run-for-prime-minister-and-win/
Any update on this? I really want the left to gain momentum in Israel and find the current right wing government to be quite poisonous.
I don't see Bibi losing at all, but sound ground gained by the left would certainly lift the spirits as I was under the impression Israel was moving further right?
Not when you have the full support of the world's sole superpower behind you.
As an American I don't like how my tax money is spent supporting an unAmerican state.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Final results were 60-60 I believe. Its not a groundswell of support for the left as you might like but it shows the right's weakening power. The next government will be very shakey
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