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It's Time To Look At SIE As a Publisher First, Platform Holder Second. What Does That Really Mean?
- Thread starter thicc_girls_are_teh_best
- Start date
- Opinion Business Platform
simpatico
Member
It's hard to put a $ amount for the value of exclusives though. Especially in the way you must show that in a publicly traded company. How does Sony quantify this to shareholders who just want to see money coming in?
midnightAI
Banned
I'm sure they'll have the figures, each game is different also, in fact many first party games simply do not sell that well (comparatively) on PC, but thats for them to decide.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Maybe that's the problem: some of these shareholders are frankly dumb when it comes to understanding the gaming market. Just because they have money doesn't mean their wants should be prioritized, IMO.
Idealistically, anyway. In practical & legal terms I know SIE have to listen to all shareholders.
This isn't true. Valve's got DOTA 2 and Counterstrike 2 doing perfectly fine on Steam exclusively, and have been for years (or over a decade in DOTA 2's case). League of Legends is still PC-only. World of Warcraft of all games, is still PC-only. VALORANT is one of the few big PC-only GAAS that is (finally) getting a console version, but without crossplay between console/PC.
Well about the PC revenue...sure this past FY they generated their target amount, but most of that came from Helldivers 2, a surprise viral hit. If that game didn't become a sensation, SIE would've missed their $450 million revenue target for PC last FY, easily. Meanwhile the FY prior, most of the revenue came from Destiny 2.
What I'm saying is, most of the PC ports that are non-GAAS the past FY weren't big sellers. HFW for example, seems to be selling slower on PC than HZD did. Rift Apart wasn't a big splash over there, either. There could be multiple reasons for that, maybe those games not being Day 1 was the main reason? It feels like LEGO Horizon is a way to test that, following up from Helldivers 2.
On the subject of Helldivers 2...while yeah, the game sold a ton on Steam, some of those were lateral sales. Some of those came from PS5 & PC owners who decided to get the game on Steam vs PS5 due to free online, better overall performance and (likely) cheaper regional pricing. And if the "controversy" is any indication, hell maybe some of them just didn't want to link in through PSN for the game.
TBF, it doesn't sound like SIE have a solid idea themselves, going by that answer to the Goldman Sachs shareholder in the investor's call :/
They're just building up data to reference as they go along, like how we're building up hypothesis with (public) data as things go along. The only company that's done a similar strategy as a platform holder with more data to conclusively prove the results of a similar strategy, is Microsoft. And Microsoft aren't going to share that data with Sony, nor are they going to admit to it publicly.
I agree PS is a bigger component to Sony than Xbox is (or was) to Microsoft. But being important in itself doesn't mean major mistakes can't be made.
Consoles were massively important to SEGA at one point. They still screwed up critically. Even Nintendo's had their screw-ups from time to time (Virtual Boy, Gamecube, Wii U). I just hope that the situation with Xbox consoles in the market doesn't make SIE think they are just the inevitable default option going forward.
They're always going to be the main option, most likely. But platforms like PC (specifically Steam), I feel, have been encroaching a lot on total mindshare in gaming market and specifically pushing up against the console market. So even if it's an indirect competitor, it could over time be better at drawing away would-be PS customers than a direct competitor like Xbox has been the past 10 years.
simpatico
Member
The thing is, they haven’t dropped a non GaaS on day 1. I think Ghost of Tsushima is going to raise eyebrows internally of how good these games could sell. If they trial run GoT2 on day 1 I think it would sell great.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
I maintain my stance that all public companies will eventually deteriorate in some way or form- outside shareholders are some of the biggest forces ruining the gaming industry.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I have a theory: Death Stranding 2 might be that first test, not Ghosts 2. Sony own the Death Stranding IP, but Kojima Productions is a 3P developer. Most fan backlash to a PC Day 1 release of DS2 could be explained as it not being a 1P internal studio game. I mean some people are already going with that excuse to explain why LEGO Horizon on Switch and PC Day 1 doesn't go against what Herman said at the investors call.
Death Stranding 2 could even fall into that "experimental" category of SIE's. DS1 had a multiplayer component; DS2 likely will as well. I've seen some people here saying optional online co-op is enough to qualify as a GAAS; maybe SIE feel the same way
You might have a point. Although I think some precautions can be taken. Nintendo's a great example of that. They have certain shares owned by family members and the Japanese banks. In fact over half of Nintendo's shares are owned by a mix of Nintendo themselves (of course), Japanese banks, and Japanese investors & firms. Nintendo & The Master Trust Bank of Japan are the two biggest shareholders.
So I think companies like Nintendo are more immune (though not totally immune) from greedy or corrupt shareholders because most of those types of shareholders & firms tend to be Western (specifically, American), and they probably don't own a lot of ordinary shares (the type that have voting power). Saudi Arabia's PIF is the 2nd largest shareholder at Nintendo now, but I don't know specifically what type of shares they have; they started investing after Nintendo did a stock split in 2022 to attract new investors, so I'd guess the Saudi PIF mostly has growth shares in Nintendo.
Growth shares can have voting rights, but the vast majority of the time they don't. So I highly doubt the shares the PIF own in Nintendo, if the vast majority of them come with any voting rights attached to them.
MLB The Show is a GAAS title. It's also a sports game. No offense to sports fans, but most gamers aren't going to use multiplat sports games as a litmus in potentially significant strategy change of publishing by a platform holder. Enthusiasts gamers don't really "care" about sports games the way they do about non-sports games.
I get what you're saying, but we can't pretend like PS4 started with guns blazing right from launch. If we're looking at exclusives between the two from launch to I guess the release of Bloodborne, XBO had the stronger stable out of both systems. In fact I'd say the reason it didn't perform AS badly as it could've otherwise early on with all the mistakes you highlight, is because its exclusives were appealing enough to overcome some of those odds.
Yeah Ryse is a bit shallow, but it was and IMO still is a visually great-looking game. Other stuff like Dead Rising 3 and Forza Motorsport 5 were impressive. Titan Fall was a great game although it didn't have a massive effect in helping XBO push ahead of PS4. Quantum Break was pretty good, Killer Instinct was loved by the community when it launched, etc. Those were all also pretty heavy-hitting games for their time, while on PS4 you didn't have as many comparable games outside of Infamous: Second Son and that port of SFIV, but by then SFIV was fading out for SFV.
It wasn't until Bloodborne and then Uncharted 4 before PS4 started getting a consistent number of exclusive bangers. I think E3 2016 + Uncharted 4 were the one-two punch to really rocket PS4 forward from that point onward and that's when it was truly over for XBO in having any chance of effectively competing against PS4 (the Switch being a surprise mega-hit at launch just cemented Xbox's falling behind even further).
When I bring up the PC ports, I mainly am referring to when MS started doing Day 1 to Steam specifically, which was around 2020, and they made that a mandate for all their PC games. When MS was bringing their games to PC but exclusively to Microsoft Store, I don't think that was TOO damaging to Xbox consoles. Partly because sales there were still 100% Microsoft's, and partly because MS Store wasn't a very big spot for PC gaming (or gaming in general).
I will always be of the belief that Day 1 to Steam for all games has had a notable impact not necessarily on XBO, but the Xbox Series consoles, since that went into effect right before the new consoles launched. But then the pandemic happened, and chip shortages for PS5 happened. PS4 supply dropped like a stone, the generation had just began, money was tight and if people wanted a next-gen console the only readily option was a Series S. I think the pandemic and those chip shortages artificially boosted Xbox sales and delayed the sales decline they would've seen a lot sooner due in part to their release strategy on Steam.
But also like I've been saying, Day 1 Steam isn't the biggest contributor to declining Xbox console sales either. On it's own that has probably been maybe 15% of a factor against Xbox consoles, however because of previous mistakes made with XBO and then also not bothering to launch new 1P games with XBS, those compounded on the Day 1 Steam strategy and over time that's maybe had a stronger effect on console fans than it would've had otherwise.
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nial
Member
To be quite fair, LEGO Horizon Adventures on Switch was a decision ultimately made by Jim Ryan, the CEO changes at SIE only happened 10 days ago.
simpatico
Member
I think DS2 makes a poor test balloon since it's so esoteric. DS1 would have even been better since people didn't know what it was. GoT2 is kinda perfect because it's got widespread appeal and isn't in Sony's S Tier (TLOU, GoW).I have a theory: Death Stranding 2 might be that first test, not Ghosts 2. Sony own the Death Stranding IP, but Kojima Productions is a 3P developer. Most fan backlash to a PC Day 1 release of DS2 could be explained as it not being a 1P internal studio game. I mean some people are already going with that excuse to explain why LEGO Horizon on Switch and PC Day 1 doesn't go against what Herman said at the investors call.
Death Stranding 2 could even fall into that "experimental" category of SIE's. DS1 had a multiplayer component; DS2 likely will as well. I've seen some people here saying optional online co-op is enough to qualify as a GAAS; maybe SIE feel the same way
You might have a point. Although I think some precautions can be taken. Nintendo's a great example of that. They have certain shares owned by family members and the Japanese banks. In fact over half of Nintendo's shares are owned by a mix of Nintendo themselves (of course), Japanese banks, and Japanese investors & firms. Nintendo & The Master Trust Bank of Japan are the two biggest shareholders.
So I think companies like Nintendo are more immune (though not totally immune) from greedy or corrupt shareholders because most of those types of shareholders & firms tend to be Western (specifically, American), and they probably don't own a lot of ordinary shares (the type that have voting power). Saudi Arabia's PIF is the 2nd largest shareholder at Nintendo now, but I don't know specifically what type of shares they have; they started investing after Nintendo did a stock split in 2022 to attract new investors, so I'd guess the Saudi PIF mostly has growth shares in Nintendo.
Growth shares can have voting rights, but the vast majority of the time they don't. So I highly doubt the shares the PIF own in Nintendo, if the vast majority of them come with any voting rights attached to them.
MLB The Show is a GAAS title. It's also a sports game. No offense to sports fans, but most gamers aren't going to use multiplat sports games as a litmus in potentially significant strategy change of publishing by a platform holder. Enthusiasts gamers don't really "care" about sports games the way they do about non-sports games.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Well things could be interesting if ms goes full multiplatform and xbox hardware sales are down even more. At what point does Sony think to themselves that ms isn't a threat to console sales and decides to capitalize on software sales on the smaller xbox user base? Maybe never, but it would definately be more of a consideration.
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cash_longfellow
Member
I bookmarked this thread to read later when I got sober…and holy hell, I feel like I’m drunk again 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Damnit, you've got a point
Nah I think Ghosts is in that TLOU/GOW/Uncharted/etc. echelon now. It may not have the sales of those games quite yet, but it's as revered by the community as those IP. I'd even say, the community has taken to it more preferably than they did TLOU2, and I think it's a bigger success in places like Japan than those other games.
You're right that DS2 might be incredibly esoteric, but it's a Kojima game so it's "esoteric" in a way that'll be more palatable by most people. Kinda like how Pulp Fiction is a very oddball film, but it was more mainstream than other pulpy films at the time because of its robust cast of well-known actors and actresses. Kojima's doing the same thing with Death Stranding 2, they're banking on the appeal of the cast to ground mainstream audiences in whatever insanity the story itself presents.
Still wondering if something like Helldivers 2 eventually gets a port to Xbox. Given Destiny 2 is there, and Marathon's confirmed for the platform, and it's also a GAAS I could see it eventually getting a port.
I know Phil would be happy at last if it did. No more pettiness over it...but then he'll probably just find another Sony game to get petty about :/
I bookmarked this thread to read later when I got sober…and holy hell, I feel like I’m drunk again
The text is actually laced with alcohol powder.
...probably a bit late to mention that
cash_longfellow
Member
The poll options are definitely laced with something I can’t keep up withDamnit, you've got a point
Nah I think Ghosts is in that TLOU/GOW/Uncharted/etc. echelon now. It may not have the sales of those games quite yet, but it's as revered by the community as those IP. I'd even say, the community has taken to it more preferably than they did TLOU2, and I think it's a bigger success in places like Japan than those other games.
You're right that DS2 might be incredibly esoteric, but it's a Kojima game so it's "esoteric" in a way that'll be more palatable by most people. Kinda like how Pulp Fiction is a very oddball film, but it was more mainstream than other pulpy films at the time because of its robust cast of well-known actors and actresses. Kojima's doing the same thing with Death Stranding 2, they're banking on the appeal of the cast to ground mainstream audiences in whatever insanity the story itself presents.
Still wondering if something like Helldivers 2 eventually gets a port to Xbox. Given Destiny 2 is there, and Marathon's confirmed for the platform, and it's also a GAAS I could see it eventually getting a port.
I know Phil would be happy at last if it did. No more pettiness over it...but then he'll probably just find another Sony game to get petty about :/
The text is actually laced with alcohol powder.
...probably a bit late to mention that
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