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[EatinOlives]

Good. I thought I was going insane when Iwata repeated the whole "we totally won't repeat X mistake, promise!" for the nth time and people everywhere were eating it up. He actually did the same song and dance for the online ("we promise the 3DS' online won't be shit like the Wii's" then shortly thereafter "we promise the WiiU's online won't be shit like the 3DS's" and...it still wasn't good online at all), but the quote about the drought were by far the ones that stuck out the most in memory. Mostly because at the time I believed them and held him to his word, that he specifically said that they would combat this situation, and sure enough as soon as the next drought started the apologies and "we'll do better next time!" promises came rolling in again. It was like I was in constant deja vu.

I eventually just stopped caring. It's one thing to pretend to never make any mistakes, but to "admit" mistakes and repeat empty promises isn't that much better at all.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Wait, people think the problem is with Nintendo's first party software? I mean, I can get problems with the third party issues, but on the Wii, DS, and 3DS so far Nintendo has had lots of first party content and its been some of their best. Seriously, I'm pretty sure they're making more games then Microsoft, and I think they might be making more then Sony

Nintendo has done nothing but increase their output for the last seven years, though in a lopsided manner. (DS got loads of games, Wii suffered droughts.) They made and are making new IP, they're accelerating on digital content really quickly, etc.

Nintendo of America didn't do their image any favors by treating the waning years of the Wii with apparent contempt, and not bringing over the last hurrah games at the proper times.

Sometimes though, I wonder if more people should realize when they're really just fans of a few particular games, and not of a publisher, developer, or even franchise in general. There's always such perpetual disappointment by folks who measure everything against a handful of games and find it all lacking.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Any individual can have any variance of opinion or method of choice, so we agree here. However, the response to said hypothetical female CEO would assuredly be different anywhere from how employees interact with her versus a male, how the public talks about her, what images are adorned to her (i.e. GAF images and gifs), how investors read her statements, how they respond to her addresses.

For example, read any commentary about Yahoo President Marissa Mayer and her baby and you can see how gender becomes very important in a society that traditionally has male CEOs. Unfortunately, the visibility of being a female and a CEO will often result in a dominant discourse surrounding her "femininity."

It is often speculated that a female CEO affects the company's investments and is thus negative. I think that's just stupid, but I have no proof.

Actually, another great example would be Cammie when she worked for Nintendo. This horrible things said about her were often manifestations of her being a female presenting material to a dominantly male audience.

Maybe they should just replace Iwata on Nintendo Directs with a big titted anime girl

 

[javac]

Sorry, my friend, but you DID say it today's Nintendo is better because of better sales and reviews (which is debatable). I'll quote you to make that clear:

You can disagree with me and say today's Nintendo is better. It's your opinion and I respect that. But I wholy disagree with the logic of your argument. Sales and reviews aren't accurate arguments to prove something has better quality over another.

It was a misunderstanding don't worry about it.

By saying...

If you look at reviews and sales everything points to Nintendo games being better now. If sales aren't a good enough metric for you and reviews are too skewed for ya that I don't know how you would measure how good a game or a systems library is.

I was trying to say "prove that the older Nintendo games are better without pointing to reviews and sales" because it reality it would be impossible. You just like what you like and that's cool. I obviously worded it wrong so I apologise.

 

[Scum]

But that may not itself be sufficient. If you have a system with all the third party software in the world, perhaps you don't need first party support. Perhaps first party support is even counter productive in that instance, causing a crowding out effect of sorts.

But if you're in Nintendo's position, simply making more software than MS and maybe-perhaps-but-we're-not-sure more software than Sony just isn't good enough. They need to be growing their first party presence to compensate for the lack of third party presence if those third parties show a persistent resistance to releasing on your systems.

They actually have been growing their first party staff, but I don't think it's fast enough. I think they should have grown faster and I think they should have been supporting indies more than they have.

They sorely miss and are in need of mid-tier development studios. I miss mid-tier development studios. :-(

 

[RedSwirl]

Disagree. Even during Yamauchi, Nintendo still had strong western support. They lost japanese support, but in the west N64 had strong support. After Iwata came out, western support for Nintendo took a nosedive ever since. He managed to amend the relations with japanese developers but killed western in exchange.

Which, again, at the time probably made sense. A decade ago, who could have predicted that the west would take over console gaming?

 

[JordanN]

If you want more proof Iwata is bad, just look at this thread.

This is probably the 9th or 10th thread on Neogaf where Nintendo does something really dumb and then you have people in denial of it.

Like, what the hell? I should just be playing games without hearing controversy coming from a developer or a consumer.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Which, again, at the time probably made sense. A decade ago, who could have predicted that the west would take over console gaming?

2003? Me. Xbox was the first step.

 

[Opiate]

They sorely miss and are need of mid-tier development studios. I miss mid-teir development studios. :-(

I would just say mid-tier studios don't materialize out of thin air. If you want new mid tier studios, then they have to start out as low tier studios and build up. Nintendo hasn't made that easy.

 

[DSix]

He's one of the worst things to happen to Nintendo.

He sold off Rare, and I will never forgive.
(I know, technically he refused to buy the rest of Rare, but the result was all the same)

Otherwise he wasn't that bad, he's one of the only big CEOs who actually is from the game industry and not a shoe seller. I'm not sure if it would go any better without him.

 

[web_slinger_62]

Wait, people think the problem is with Nintendo's first party software? I mean, I can get problems with the third party issues, but on the Wii, DS, and 3DS so far Nintendo has had lots of first party content and its been some of their best. Seriously, I'm pretty sure they're making more games then Microsoft, and I think they might be making more then Sony

I think it has to do with the timing of the first party games, sure they make more than Sony/MS, but those two have third party games to pad the droughts, something that is missing on Nintendo's side unfortunately

 

[Scum]

I would just say mid-tier studios don't materialize out of thin air. If you want new mid tier studios, then they have to start out as low tier studios and build up. Nintendo hasn't made that easy.

I know. I know. :-(

 

[equippedwithtowel]

He sold off Rare, and I will never forgive.
(I know, technically he refused to buy the rest of Rare, but the result was all the same)

Otherwise he wasn't that bad, he's one of the only big CEOs who actually is from the game industry and not a shoe seller. I'm not sure if it would go any better without him.

Because Rare has just been knocking it out of the park since.

 

[Gummb]

Maybe they should just replace Iwata on Nintendo Directs with a big titted anime girl

This response... was just not helpful. :\

Anyway, I hope I made my point clear.

 

[Oddduck]

Because Rare has just been knocking it out of the park since.

Do you believe Next Level Games would make the same level of quality if they were without Nintendo? Judging by their non-nintendo published games, I would have to say no.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

If you want more proof Iwata is bad, just look at this thread.

This is probably the 9th or 10th thread on Neogaf where Nintendo does something really dumb and then you have people in denial of it.

Like, what the hell? I should just be playing games without hearing controversy coming from a developer or a consumer.

Neogaf is not indicative of the larger industry.
Nothing's stopping you from playing games you enjoy without reading Emily Rogers blog.

 

[EulaCapra]

As much as I like Iwata, there's a lot of valid points and retracting in the article.

Maybe it's time for Iwata to Sashay Away. (laughs)

 

[RedSwirl]

Keep in mind that I'm not saying third parties as a concept should be considered off the table, just the guys who are currently at the top of the publisher pile. Other platforms that find themselves in Nintendo's position where they are largely ignored by the major publishers -- as Facebook and browser gaming in general did -- have grown their own third parties from the ground up, sometimes creating major publishers like Zynga in the process (not that I like Zynga, mind you, but their popularity cannot be ignored).

If Nintendo had given up on EA/Take 2/etc. before now, growing first party support faster is only one method to solve the problem. They could also foster the growth of new third parties on their platforms and grow new publishers on their turf, as happened for Facebook and iOS, too (Gameloft, Rovio, others all started small and have grown rapidly as iOS focused publishers). Instead, Nintendo was so concerned with getting GTA and Battlefield on board that they've largely missed that boat, too.

They should have been growing their first party more rapidly than they have. They should have been fostering the little guys, some of whom might be big guys by now if Nintendo had focused on creating a friendly environment for them. Instead, they're stuck where they are now because they continue to hope that EA and Take 2 will repent their sins and come to Nintendo's platforms, and they never do. And Nintendo seems constantly surprised by it.

What Nintendo is doing now with the eShop is basically what they should have been doing during the Wii era.

Thinking about it, back in 2006 Nintendo should have known the big western third parties wouldn't be so willing to jump into their Blue Ocean. They should've known that their philosophies wouldn't line up with those of EA or Take-Two. Maybe back then they still didn't realize how important western developers like Bethesda and Epic would eventually be in the console space. That whole transition basically took all of Japan by surprise. Still, Nintendo knew they wanted the Wii to be a console where the big idea could prevail over the big budget. Maybe their biggest defeat in the area of third party support was allowing Microsoft to grab up all the indies back then.

Maybe Iwata should have done this kind of thing...

• Sweet talk more Indie devs for goodies on the eShop.
• Moneyhat some "top tier" third party IPs like Metal Gear Rising.
  [*]Chase after "small-to-mid tier" development studios or set them up internally, esp. at NoE & NoA, for those 1990-2000 era IPs [e.g. Star Fox, Rogue Squadron, XtremeG, F-Zero, Wave Race, etc] that have gone missing for many years.
• Collaborations with independent and "mid tier" studios like Platinum and say, Atlus & Level 5.

...about 7+ years ago.

What's funny is that the Wii kinda was sort of refuge for mid-tier retail releases. It was the only place where games like Trauma Team or Muramasa could have survived at retail.

Well, maybe Microsoft will fuck up indie relations next gen. They definitely seem to be losing ground to Sony and the PC space when it comes to indies. We'll see if they ease up on XBL the way Sony and Nintendo are easing up on indie relations.

 

[MisterHero]

Yeah, because Nintendo skimps out on the battery for money reasons

I was about the first person on the 3DS debut thread that questioned its battery life. Battery life was a big factor in the success of prior Nintendo handhelds and the 3DS doesn't have a better solution (unless we count the 3DS XL having a larger battery).

With Wii U it's probably an effort to keep the SKU prices down. The problem is that prices haven't cut deep enough, but Nintendo doesn't want to be stuck with losses on hardware either.

There are many reasons that Nintendo messed up; I just don't think misreading the audience [as the OP article insists upon] is one of them. The casual audience will probably always be there, but Nintendo hasn't met the conditions to access it again.

 

[JordanN]

Neogaf is not indicative of the larger industry.
Nothing's stopping you from playing games you enjoy without reading Emily Rogers blog.

Neogaf presents news from the industry though.

And by the playing games comment, I mean I should play without worrying whether a developer wont be able to deliver a product because Nintendo does something to hold them back.

Just as how if I own Playstation, I wouldn't have to hear how "x" isn't bothering developer because Sony doesn't want games to use controllers anymore (or any other dumb missteps).

 

[javac]

If you want more proof Iwata is bad, just look at this thread.

This is probably the 9th or 10th thread on Neogaf where Nintendo does something really dumb and then you have people in denial of it.

Like, what the hell?

I guess some people like Nintendo's games and direction regardless? Or people feel the past achievements were enough to garner Iwata a bit more time to rectify things?

I'm genuinely giving suggestions as to why.

As for me I like Iwata. I think he has potential and has shown it and is a funny, genuine cool smart guy. That doesn't matter in business however and if he was replaced well then that's that. Nothing you can do. Also as long as Nintendo continue to release the amazing games they do today and go in a different route to the other systems for diversity among all 3 I'd be happy. But to act like he killed Nintendo is melodramatic. Have Patience. If he is indeed a threat to Nintendo's well being he'll be gone. People will be upset some will be happy but that would be that. Have faith in the system.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I like Iwata and I don't think he should be fired, he should just be replaced by someone who has a better grasp on the industry and go back to game development. Similarly to how Miyamoto should not have so much power over everything.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Keep in mind that I'm not saying third parties as a concept should be considered off the table, just the guys who are currently at the top of the publisher pile. Other platforms that find themselves in Nintendo's position where they are largely ignored by the major publishers -- as Facebook and browser gaming in general did -- have grown their own third parties from the ground up, sometimes creating major publishers like Zynga in the process (not that I like Zynga, mind you, but their popularity cannot be ignored).

If Nintendo had given up on EA/Take 2/etc. before now, growing first party support faster is only one method to solve the problem. They could also foster the growth of new third parties on their platforms and grow new publishers on their turf, as happened for Facebook and iOS, too (Gameloft, Rovio, others all started small and have grown rapidly as iOS focused publishers). Instead, Nintendo was so concerned with getting GTA and Battlefield on board that they've largely missed that boat, too.

They should have been growing their first party more rapidly than they have. They should have been fostering the little guys, some of whom might be big guys by now if Nintendo had focused on creating a friendly environment for them. Instead, they're stuck where they are now because they continue to hope that EA and Take 2 will repent their sins and come to Nintendo's platforms, and they never do. And Nintendo seems constantly surprised by it.

EA and Take-Two probably won't ride on Nintendo's boat because of it's japanese centric approach which can't mesh with their business philosophies. If Nintendo still had the Howard Lincoln's approach from the N64 days, EA and Take-Two would probably support Nintendo.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

Do you believe Next Level Games would make the same level of quality if they were without Nintendo? Judging by their non-nintendo published games, I would have to say no.

How was that implied. If nintendo's presence is intrinsically enough to make otherwise mediocre developers great, then Rare's value was way overblown.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Nah man back in my days Nintendo games were amazing.

Spoiler

Unlike Sega (tear) Nintendo still has a chance to rebound.

I hate the current situation... I knew the Wii-U would bomb. :-(

 

[Gummb]

As far as accumulating new studios in the west, I would think that it would be relatively easy for Nintendo to do, but perhaps difficult to manage.

I would simply create a business with 1 core industry insider who understands Western development and understands Nintendo, say that whoever joins this development studio will work on the brand new StarFox game, only hire developers, programmers and artists with 10+ years of experience, and shazam! Brand new quality studio capable of making Nintendo games.

Of course this is highly unrealistic and based in little information to the broader workings of Nintendo... but if it needs to be done, that's how I would do it. It's kind of how they advertised Metroid Prime when hiring Retro staff way back.

 

[Saberus]

I'm sure Iwata said this with good intentions and I believe he though the software would be there, but I think developers bailed out on projects once they realized the hardware sales weren't going to be where they thought. Hopefully in time sales might pick up with some quality software releases.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

Neogaf presents news from the industry though.

And by the playing games comment, I mean I should play without worrying whether a developer wont be able to deliver a product because Nintendo does something to hold them back.

Is this a Binding of Isaac, Paper Mario or Rayman Legends directed bitter comment or is there an incident I'm forgetting?

 

[MDX]

Its a myopic article.

We see other companies going bankrupt, laying off people, going mobile, but Nintendo is expanding.

But they are going through some growing pains.
It so happens development on both their portable and console platforms
have gotten increasingly more expensive and lengthy. So 3DS and WiiU
will take the brunt of that.

And Nintendo cant do anything about third parties going bankrupt (THQ), or their
changing strategies and business decisions (Rayman). He cant do anything if the people
who buy Nintendo products are not as interested in third party games as they are on
competitive consoles (CoD). And he cant do much about development delays if he values quality software.

Second half of this year we will see if Nintendo is ready to face up against Sony and MS.

 

[RedSwirl]

EA and Take-Two probably won't ride on Nintendo's boat because of it's japanese centric approach which can't mesh with their business philosophies. If Nintendo still had the Howard Lincoln's approach from the N64 days, EA and Take-Two would probably support Nintendo.

What the hell would Howard Lincoln even be doing with the Wii and DS ecosystem?

 

[MisterHero]

EA and Take-Two probably won't ride on Nintendo's boat because of it's japanese centric approach which can't mesh with their business philosophies. If Nintendo still had the Howard Lincoln's approach from the N64 days, EA and Take-Two would probably support Nintendo.

EA can screw off if they insist on bringing Origin to Wii U. Nobody should support it.

Its a myopic article.

We see other companies going bankrupt, laying off people, going mobile, but Nintendo is expanding. But they are going through some growing pains.
It so happens development on both their portable and console platforms
have gotten increasingly more expensive and lengthy. So 3DS and WiiU
will take the brunt of that.

And Nintendo cant do anything about third parties going bankrupt (THQ), or their
changing strategies and business decisions (Rayman). He cant do anything if the people
who buy Nintendo products are not as interested in third party games as they are on
competitive consoles (CoD). And he cant do much about development delays if he values quality software.

Second half of this year we will see if Nintendo is ready to face up against Sony and MS.

Truth.

Nintendo moneyhatted Resident Evil and 5+ games from Capcom and they couldn't stop Capcom from breaking exclusivity.

 

[Iacobellis]

Iwata should go back to the position he had before 2002. He effectively killed off many of the Nintendo development studios in NA and screwed up nearly every product launch since the DS.

 

[JordanN]

I guess some people like Nintendo's games and direction regardless? Or people feel the past achievements were enough to garner Iwata a bit more time to rectify things?

But why though? Why do these problems even exist?

You never hear how domino's pizza isn't going to start laying land mines in their restaurant as a way to kill pests. Or how a new movie is being shot without sound because the director really thinks "sound is what's wrong with the industry".

Only Nintendo pulls off so much stupid on a daily basis.

Just make a console not bound to piss everyone off.

 

[disappeared]

Nintendo since 2001:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpKAnp5Klzw


A handful of great titles in the past decade. I mean, sure, it's an alright track record. But in terms of them convincing me to hold onto their consoles for the long-term,.. nope.

 

[javac]

Unlike Sega (tear) Nintendo still has a chance to rebound.

I hate the current situation... I knew the Wii-U would bomb. :-(

You can say that again. Nintendo still have a lot of fight left. Sega is in heaven now, giving Iwata strength. Listen up, Nintendo. Don't believe in yourself. Believe in me! Believe in the NeoGaf who believes in you!

We can do it!

Spoiler

Don't look at me like that. Dreamcast has still left me depressed.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

What the hell would Howard Lincoln even be doing with the Wii and DS ecosystem?

Howard Lincoln did managed to convince EA to support the N64 after they said they wouldn't. Take a look at this article, it details how he handled third-party support for the N64. www.notenoughshaders.com/2013/03/14/howard-lincoln-kicking-ass-before-reggie-came-along/

 

[Instro]

Iwata should go back to the position he had before 2002. He effectively killed off many of the Nintendo development studios in NA and screwed up nearly every product launch since the DS.

What was wrong with the Wii launch?

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Iwata should go back to the position he had before 2002. He effectively killed off many of the Nintendo development studios in NA and screwed up nearly every product launch since the DS.

The DS launch was pretty awful. Mario Kart (a year later) and the DS Lite basically saved that system. That and PSP's price.

 

[Coolwhip]

I like the guy but his terrible preparation for Wii's successor is fire worthy. All that Wii money should have been used on massively expanding Nintendo's teams and partnerships. Nintendo abandoned Wii 2 years ago and still manages to not be ready for Wii U.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

But why though? Why do these problems even exist?

You never hear how domino's pizza isn't going to start laying land mines in their restaurant as a way to kill pests. Or how a new movie is being shot without sound because the director really thinks "sound is what's wrong with the industry".

Only Nintendo pulls off so much stupid on a daily basis.

Just make a console not bound to piss everyone off.

Because in my opinion they make some of the best games in the industry. Full Stop.
Whether or not they get the most support (that's what my PC is for) or have the adoration of gamer everywhere is irrelevant to own interests.
I am satisfied with their output on every console but the WiiU. That is why I don't own one. When they release games that I find attractive I will buy it. Such games are revealed to be coming. Iwata is still in charge

QED I'm okay with Iwata as CEO.

 

[AniHawk]

Nobody wanted it for games. The DS has been around nearly a decade and the number of games that genuinely benefit from having two screens is still minimal and not at all industry affecting. The touch screen is what sold the DS, the dual screens as a mechanic was never worth much of anything.

touch screen gaming was new to the mainstream in 2005 though, at least thanks to the software nintendo provided. the dual screen was yamauchi's idea, but making the bottom screen a touch screen came from iwata.

The DS launch was pretty awful. Mario Kart (a year later) and the DS Lite basically saved that system. That and PSP's price.

i don't think that's fair to the psp. the psp was immensely successful its first year. then, for some reason, everyone stopped caring about it, until its revival in japan and japan only.

 

[JordanN]

Is this a Binding of Isaac, Paper Mario or Rayman Legends directed bitter comment or is there an incident I'm forgetting?

It's a reference to any level of incompetence.

 

[Iacobellis]

What was wrong with the Wii launch?

Okay, it wasn't terrible, but what could you play in 2007? WarioWare? Super Mario Galaxy wasn't there until about a year after launch. It seems with almost EVERY Nintendo console, we are stuck waiting a year until the system actually sees decent support.

 

[JordanN]

Because in my opinion they make some of the best games in the industry. Full Stop.
Whether or not they get the most support (that's what my PC is for) or have the adoration of gamer everywhere is irrelevant to own interests.
I am satisfied with their output on every console but the WiiU. That is why I don't own one. When they release games that I find attractive I will buy it. Such games are revealed to be coming. Iwata is still in charge

QED I'm okay with Iwata as CEO.

Nintendo can still make good games without looking like an insane person in a straight jacket.

In fact, it's possible their insanity may unnecessarily impact their games.

 

[xbhaskarx]

This whole thing is pretty brutal, so I expect Nintendo fans will find little details to quibble over that make the entire thing a non-issue in their eyes... "But X so this loses all credibility."

 

[javac]

Nintendo can still make good games without looking like an insane person in a straight jacket.

I just don't see Nintendo being any different. Nintendo is just...ya know...Nintendo. I mean I cant see what they could have done with the Wii U to make it more attractive to dev's apart from hardware parity but I can never see that happening. Nintendo obviously want to fill in the lower tier price model. The budget console.

Spoiler

Yeah Wii U isn't cheap at this point but I'm guessing soon...

Nintendo are always going to be the insane man in the straight jacket and that's why people like them I guess. Even during the more core focused days, bright purple console with handle and mini DVD's. Random analog in the middle of the N64. Using carts in light of the rise of CD. Nintendo be crazy.

My answer is just a load of words but I feel in my gut man! Krazy Nintendo!

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I wish we could wait to see if the WiiU can turn it around before we start calling for Iwata's head on a pike.

This whole thing is pretty brutal, so I expect Nintendo fans will find little details to quibble over that make the entire thing a non-issue in their eyes... "But X so this loses all credibility."

I also wish that people would top saying stupid things like this. It's amazing how people shit on "Nintendo fans" here constantly and get away with it.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

I just don't see Nintendo being any different. Nintendo is just...ya know...Nintendo. I mean I cant see what they could have done with the Wii U to make it more attractive to dev's apart from hardware parity but I can never see that happening. Nintendo obviously want to fill in the lower tier price model. The budget console.

Spoiler

Yeah Wii U isn't cheap at this point but I'm guessing soon...

Nintendo are always going to be the insane man in the straight jacket and that's why people like them I guess. Even during the more core focused days, bright purple console with handle and mini DVD's. Random analog in the middle of the N64. Using carts in light of the rise of CD. Nintendo be crazy.

My answer is just a load of words but I feel in my gut man! Krazy Nintendo!

Exactly this. Gaming needs a healthy supply of contrariness. Whether it's Nintendo or Grasshopper or the Indie scene someone needs to be a little insane.

 

[JordanN]

I just don't see Nintendo being any different. Nintendo is just...ya know...Nintendo. I mean I cant see what they could have done with the Wii U to make it more attractive to dev's apart from hardware parity but I can never see that happening.

Really? I can think of one. The name. Wii U has no place for a console name.

Nintendo's craziness doesn't even add up. They never kept cartridges after the N64 so it makes the whole endeavor look worthless.

There is little justification to Nintendo's stupidness. It's basically "why can't we have good things?" with Nintendo's answer "I want to screw you".

 

[equippedwithtowel]

Really? I can think of one. The name. Wii U has no place for a console name.

Nintendo's craziness doesn't even add up. They never kept cartridges after the N64 so it makes the whole endeavor look worthless.

There is little justification to Nintendo's stupidness. It's basically "why can't we have good things?" with Nintendo's answer "I want to screw you".

But we can have good things, just not all the ones we want.