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Jade Empire dated, Limited Edition revealed
- Thread starter Redbeard
- Start date
So when a game goes to the Greatest Hits/Platinum line, they should just start yanking out levels, characters, weapons, etc? Or maybe just features? You budget buyers don't need progressive scan or DD 5.1! If you didn't own the system when the game originally came out, well screw you -- here's your neutered vesion.
Working everything into a "price = content" system will only push consumers towards markets where publishers make less money (rentals) or no money (used game sales). People will either rent the FULL version instead of buying the discount version, or they will buy a used copy of the FULL version.
Working everything into a "price = content" system will only push consumers towards markets where publishers make less money (rentals) or no money (used game sales). People will either rent the FULL version instead of buying the discount version, or they will buy a used copy of the FULL version.
Mr_Furious said:
It's the principle of the thing. I'm sorry, but I don't want to see this establish a precedent. I don't think every new release needs to cause a mad scramble to preorder for fear of missing out on content. And yes, I can blame a company for doing something like this--it's not like initial interest in Jade Empire hasn't been ignited by all the glowing web and print coverage so far, so holding back content from the 'standard' version to boost sales of the 'premium' is hardly necessary. What this does accomplish is to erode customer goodwill, something that seems to be less and less a priority for certain companies. Hopefully this attitude will bite said companies on the ass in the long term, reminding them that keeping customers happy directly impacts their bottom line, and that maximizing profits isn't always the best way to insure customer loyalty.
Teknopathetic
Member
It's one extra character, whoopdee friggin' do. People waiting for a price drop deserve a little bit of a shaft anyway. If this content changed the story or the game in anyway then it'd be different but as it stands, shut the hell up. The characters are just pre-made deals anyway. You can create your own character in the game, so one pre-made character not in the game doesn't effect anything, if you were that desperate, just recreate him and quit yappin.
Mr_Furious
Member
Well obviously the people that wait for a pricedrop don't want the game bad enough to pay the initial MSRP so excluding one character and a weapon or two shouldn't really be a big deal to them either.border said:
I can understand both sides perspective but honestly the tactic being used for Jade Empire isn't necessarily one that I see as negative simply because MS isn't charging "extra" for the LE. As someone else already mentioned, how is this different than when movie companies release a LE 2-disc DVD set then later, re-release a single disc version of the same movie at the same price? If MS were charging extra for the exclusive content, I may be more inclined to side with those of you complaining but it's of no extra cost to the consumer and A) there'll likely be more than enough copies to go around (see the LEs of Halo2 or MA2 as examples) and/or B) the content will be made available to Xbox Live accounts at a later date.Tellaerin said:It's the principle of the thing. I'm sorry, but I don't want to see this establish a precedent. I don't think every new release needs to cause a mad scramble to preorder for fear of missing out on content. And yes, I can blame a company for doing something like this--it's not like initial interest in Jade Empire hasn't been ignited by all the glowing web and print coverage so far, so holding back content from the 'standard' version to boost sales of the 'premium' is hardly necessary. What this does accomplish is to erode customer goodwill, something that seems to be less and less a priority for certain companies. Hopefully this attitude will bite said companies on the ass in the long term, reminding them that keeping customers happy directly impacts their bottom line, and that maximizing profits isn't always the best way to insure customer loyalty.
Teknopathetic
Member
"A missing character doesn't affect anything? So nobody would have minded buying KOTOR if it had one of the main player characters removed?"
Two different things, border, and I'd hope you'd know that. It's not a missing character from the game, it's a missing model for players to use. it's not a "main player character." Monk Zheng not being in the regular version isn't anything like say...taking out Carth.
Two different things, border, and I'd hope you'd know that. It's not a missing character from the game, it's a missing model for players to use. it's not a "main player character." Monk Zheng not being in the regular version isn't anything like say...taking out Carth.
Mr_Furious
Member
Coincidentally, I saw regular versions at Fry's over the weekend so they do exist.PG2G said:
Mike Works
Member
As long as the Limited Edition isn't limited at all within the first month of release, I fucking LIKE this. I wish every company would do this as a way to support early adopters of their games. I see it as rewarding people for buying the game at full price instead of waiting 9 months to buy it at $20.
However, if there aren't enough copies to go around to fulfill initial demand, then it's dumb.
However, if there aren't enough copies to go around to fulfill initial demand, then it's dumb.
Actually, Bioware has done this with several games, notably Baldur's Gate 2 that went so far as to have a preorder bonus, and and exclusive EB only bonus, so unless you preordered from EB you got a "lesser" version.
I say "lesser" in quotes because as we've seen with Bioware's other preorder bonuses like this they do pretty much nothing to take away from the core game. Like many companies they design many characters, weapons, and items that don't make it into the final game for various reasons, unlike many other developers though Bioware likes to toss a couple of the ones they particularly liked but never integrated into the main game out there as bonus material.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
I didn't know that, thanks for the education. I sadly got the lesser version then, oh well.Drek said:
MightyHedgehog
Member
Seriously, why the fuck are people complaining? In my mind, if you're complaining about this bit for JE, that should mean that you plan to purchase it...otherwise, you'd not care either way. So, then, if you are complaining, because you obviously care about the title, then you must be planning on purchasing the title. Solution: pre-order for the normal price and get everything. Simple.
MightyHedgehog said:
Doing that just encourages other companies to do the same thing, and I'm certainly not going to pre-order EVERY game I want just to get the "complete" version. It's lame, and it sets a bad precedent. To me, that's a very good reason to be pissed off about it.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Nerevar said:
I think you'd be taking this a bit far to expect that everyone will do the same in future releases, but I understand the point. Still, in JE's case, people have been forewarned, and should immediately make certain that they get the pre-order done (what? $5 down?) and be done with it. If future releases do the same thing, preorder to ensure that you get the 'full' version. Yeah, probably not ideal, but if you know about something like this beforehand, then you can deal with it appropriately. Obviously, publishers/developers will want to inform people ahead of time to make the preorder incentive worthwhile.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Doing that just encourages other companies to do the same thing, and I'm certainly not going to pre-order EVERY game I want just to get the "complete" version."
Look folks, this is a simple concept. The game IS complete, pre-orders are just getting things that WERE on the cutting room floor previously. Bioware's done it before and it doesn't effect *anything*.
Look folks, this is a simple concept. The game IS complete, pre-orders are just getting things that WERE on the cutting room floor previously. Bioware's done it before and it doesn't effect *anything*.
Tre said:
Sorry, Tre, but the version that has the most content is the one that's considered 'complete'. That's the yardstick all the other versions are measured by. Anything less is less than complete. What you're saying is that the regular version should be considered complete, despite the fact that it's missing things that are present in another version of the game, which is pretty absurd when you stop and think about it.
No matter how much you may like Bioware, this practice is still hard to justify, IMO.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Sorry, Tre, but the version that has the most content is the one that's considered 'complete'. "
By that token, KOTOR for Xbox wasn't complete, the PC version was.
". What you're saying is that the regular version should be considered complete, despite the fact that it's missing things that are present in another version of the game, which is pretty absurd when you stop and think about it."
What's absurd is people making mountains out of molehills on things that don't have any effect on gameplay in the absolute *least*. Pre-orders get something that people other wise wouldn't, hence *bonus*. It seems like people are getting pissy because they can't wait for a few months and get something that otherwise wouldn't be available. I'm sorry, I can't feel sorry for them.
It's tiny and insignificant.
By that token, KOTOR for Xbox wasn't complete, the PC version was.
". What you're saying is that the regular version should be considered complete, despite the fact that it's missing things that are present in another version of the game, which is pretty absurd when you stop and think about it."
What's absurd is people making mountains out of molehills on things that don't have any effect on gameplay in the absolute *least*. Pre-orders get something that people other wise wouldn't, hence *bonus*. It seems like people are getting pissy because they can't wait for a few months and get something that otherwise wouldn't be available. I'm sorry, I can't feel sorry for them.
It's tiny and insignificant.
Mike Works
Member
I don't see how this is ANY different from adding an extra special character to a game.border said:
Tre said:
I didn't say 'whichever version on the same platform that has the most content' because I thought it was common sense, and didn't think anyone would decide to pick with me over it. I stand corrected. Happy now?
Tre said:
I have no problem with the idea of preorder bonuses, but I don't feel that actual game content should be held back from one version of a game and included with another as incentive to buy. Offering little knickknacks like figurines, artbooks, wallscrolls, soundtracks or what have you are fine, but messing with the game itself isn't, no matter how minor you make that out to be. What happens to the guy who buys an Xbox two or three months down the road and decides that he's interested in Jade Empire, but can't find the special edition version because it's no longer being produced? Is he somehow 'less deserving' than the people who preordered? Like I said, it's really about the principle of the thing.
Mike Works said:
Which is something I don't agree with either, if it means two versions of the same game released in the same time frame on the same platform. That'd be like Capcom releasing Viewtiful Joe on GC, then offering 'Viewtiful Joe + edition featuring Dante' as an exclusive preorder bonus--fail to preorder and you lose out on the extra character. The way things are now, if you buy a game for a particular platform, you're guaranteed the same content as anyone else, no matter when you decide to pick it up--no pressure. That's the way I think things should be.
Teknopathetic
Member
"I have no problem with the idea of preorder bonuses, but I don't feel that actual game content should be held back from one version of a game and included with another as incentive to buy. "
The thingi s, content ISN'T being held back, from what I see from designers and QA testers, etc. on the JE forum, the character wasn't going to be in the game, they added it to the LE. They didn't *strip* content.
The thingi s, content ISN'T being held back, from what I see from designers and QA testers, etc. on the JE forum, the character wasn't going to be in the game, they added it to the LE. They didn't *strip* content.
The LE content is available and functional at the time of the game's launch....how can you say that it isn't being held back? They can put it in every version of the game, but obviously they won't.
Even if it is the best RPG of 2005, the used market will be flooded with the LE versions a month or two after release (just the nature of the genre). I don't think it's any big deal for Jade Empire, but that people are so accepting of the whole concept is disturbing. At what point would you say that it becomes unfair to strip out content over time? How much has to be removed?
Even if it is the best RPG of 2005, the used market will be flooded with the LE versions a month or two after release (just the nature of the genre). I don't think it's any big deal for Jade Empire, but that people are so accepting of the whole concept is disturbing. At what point would you say that it becomes unfair to strip out content over time? How much has to be removed?
Sysgen said:
So we should just passively accept anything companies decide to do, no matter how it affects us as consumers? It may not be new, but it's not exactly a widespread practice in this industry... yet. If there's enough public dissatisfaction, companies might think twice about continuing the practice. They're certainly not going to reconsider if people quietly go along with it, though.
Ok man, you've clearly proven yourself incapable of simple logic so just give it up and don't buy what is likely going to be a top 5 game of next year just because you don't like what the developers offer for a preorder bonus.
FYI, this is much like deleted scenes from a movie. The deleted scenes are added for DVD release, that doesn't make it the "complete" or "real" version, just the version that has all the scraps they didn't consider worthy of making it into the theatrical release.
It is a necessary evil... Publishers have to do all they can to entice consumers to preorder. The shelves are just to crowded for every game on the market and publishers know for a fact that in a month their high profile game gets the red-headed-stepchild treatment. It will be thrown on a rack somewhere and nobody will see it. No face time on shelves = no sales. Plus, retailers have been ordering a lot less stock for new games. Last week, Mercanaries was sold out... today I went searching for Oddworld. Gamestop was sold out and EB had two already opened display copies.
Drek said:
You're arguing that when you release two versions of a game and one has less content than the other, that version is still 'complete' because what's missing 'isn't important', yet you have the nerve to say I'm incapable of simple logic?
I have every intention of picking up the game when it's released. What I object to is the idea of releasing a 'special' version of a game with added in-game content as a preorder bonus. Whether the content was created especially for that version of the game or is material from the cutting-room floor is irrelevant. What matters is that companies are encouraging people to preorder by saying, 'better hurry or you'll miss out on this stuff in the game, since it's only going to be included in the SE version'. As far as I'm concerned, it's a really crappy, consumer-unfriendly tactic, and I don't want to see it spread. I feel that anyone buying a particular game on a given platform should be guaranteed the same content, whether it's purchased on release day or a year later. They shouldn't have to fall all over themselves to preorder for fear of missing out on something.
Mr_Furious
Member
With the increase of greatly discounted games at a much speedier pace, I don't necessarily blame MS (or any other company for that matter) for trying to do ANYTHING to get people to buy their new products upon release. Previous games that have received varying LE treatments have been met with varying successes.
Honestly people, we're talking about a single character that many gamers probably wouldn't even choose anyways. The majority that would care to replay the game over and over again with the different characters are likely the ones that REALLY want the game and are willing to pre-order to begin with. It's not as though levels or areas have been excluded that ultimately effect gameplay to a much greater degree. Pick your battles instead of bitching about all of them.
Honestly people, we're talking about a single character that many gamers probably wouldn't even choose anyways. The majority that would care to replay the game over and over again with the different characters are likely the ones that REALLY want the game and are willing to pre-order to begin with. It's not as though levels or areas have been excluded that ultimately effect gameplay to a much greater degree. Pick your battles instead of bitching about all of them.
Not a very good analogy. If the extra content actually ends up in the final version of the game, then obviously they think it's "worthy". Deleted Scenes are not inserted into the full cut of a movie on DVD, they are viewed separately. When they are inserted into the full cut (just like the extra JE content is inserted into the full game), then that creates a more content-complete product like the Lord of the Rings Extended Edition.Drek said:
Mike Works
Member
I'm just tired of people being rewarded (aside from price) for not initially supporting a product. Take Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. They announced a Special Edition like 3 fucking weeks after the first DVD came out (and the SE was released a couple months later!). THAT is fucking ridiculous. It'd be good if they didn't offer any extras or bonuses, or maybe included a free t-shirt or something at launch, but overall, I'd much rather be rewarded for buying early than the opposite.
Look guys, this is like Bioware taking away ONE OF THE PORTRAITS in BGII and making it preorder exclusive. The main player models are meant to be pretty generic and swappable. They're more more like KOTOR main player character then Final Fantasy main characters y'know. Most probably the only difference in gameplay will be between male and female characters models (different dialogue choices).
MS/Bioware is giving you nearly two and a half month lead time notice. It isn't like they are springing this on gamers at the last second. If you can't scrape together 50 dollars for a game in this time period then you probably shouldn't be buying games in the first place. The LE costs *the same* as the regular edition. Now go get the cash for the LE or don't bitch and wait for your 20 dollar regular version which is coming later this year.
Teknopathetic
Member
"There is the fighting style that goes with the missing character"
Zuh? Uh, no.
Zuh? Uh, no.
Nerevar said:How many times does it need to be stated that people object to this on principle, not because they can't actually buy the game. Talk about dense. This thread:
Oh, please. With the amount of crap I see bought on this forum on a monthly basis I'm not taking pity on those who are 'forced' to buy a collectors edition on release.
Mrbob said:
What? What are you talking about Mrbob? No one is pissed they're "forced" to buy a collector's edition. They're pissed because Bioware is creating the impression they have withheld content from the regular game to put it in the LE. It creates a bad precedent, sucks for joe consumer who buys it a month down the line, etc etc. That's what sucks.
Creating what bad precedent? Extras have come all the time in games. This time you *aren't* paying extra for it, either. I'm sure you were all up in arms too when MK got pulled from the Midway Greatest Hits 2 and into MK: Deception as a preorder bonus??
Do you know Age of Mythology came with an EBgames exclusive preorder bonus of a couple new maps? Were you up in arms over that?!
Do you know Age of Mythology came with an EBgames exclusive preorder bonus of a couple new maps? Were you up in arms over that?!
Mrbob said:
Creating a bad precedent in that they're doing it for a major release. Compare the LE for a game like Halo 2 (a good example of what an LE should be) to this - content that could easily be included in the main release, but isn't being included. I don't like the industry doing that, I think it hurts the consumer. And who cares about MK anyway? (but seriously - that sucks too).
And your sentence about "extras have come all the time in games" makes no sense. Name one other single-platform release that had extra content in one release that was stripped from a later release (excluding censorsed stuff). You gave MK, which I didn't know about, but name another. I want to know if this really is a "common practice," because it certainly isn't for any of the games I buy. And yes, I'm talking about console games. I consider console and PC games to be entirely seperate markets.