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[Hasney]

When I worked with Nick Patrick after he got cut from WWE, we were all sitting around in a dressing room and he started talking about this. He said, "If any of you ever make it to WWE, lord help you. WWE is a machine that just wants bodies. When I hurt my back, they didn't care about working with me to get me back. They just called up another ref, stuck me down in FCW for a few months and then cut me. Vince will chew you up and spit you out. They will work you until you have nothing left and won't let you recharge. They just replace you with someone fresh." He wasn't angry at all while saying this, by the way. It was just like a, "Well, I'll be damned" thing.

Damn, that's a shame. I know WWE had Earl, but I always loved Nick when he was doing a heel ref schtick.

Aiii, everything I've seen of heard says he was scheduled for Raw, then when he left they rewrote, not the other way around. Also, kind of an informal poll... how many of use believe that the Rumble was Punk's last match?

Nah, he'll be back. Even if it's not WWE by Mania (which I could easily see), he'll still have an ROH random match return for shits and giggles once he's returned.

 

[Officerrob]

Aiii, everything I've seen of heard says he was scheduled for Raw, then when he left they rewrote, not the other way around. Also, kind of an informal poll... how many of use believe that the Rumble was Punk's last match?

Last match ever? No way. I bet he's gone for a year or two though and will never work a full schedule again

 

[Hasney]

They clearly have a lot of stock in Punk with the title reign and everything. I wonder if they think he's big enough to come back down the line as one of these part-time stars.

I think he is. He's at least Batista level.

 

[Officerrob]

The question is do HHH, Steph, or Vince trash Punk on TV?

 

[TheDrowningMan]

The question is do HHH, Steph, or Vince trash Punk on TV?

They'll probably make Bryan do it.

 

[Keyser Soze]

The question is do HHH, Steph, or Vince trash Punk on TV?

They should acknowledge it respectfully - Austin style, Then try and work it into a storyline.

As funkystudent said, they could make Batista full heel going into Mania bu having him comment a certain way on this.

 

[G-Fex]

They should acknowledge it respectfully - Austin style, Then try and work it into a storyline.

As funkystudent said, they could make Batista full heel going into Mania bu having him comment a certain way on this.

That'd be fucking great I love douchebag batista

Thank you based Sunflower.

 

[Hasney]

They should acknowledge it respectfully - Austin style, Then try and work it into a storyline.

As funkystudent said, they could make Batista full heel going into Mania bu having him comment a certain way on this.

Oh yeah, but then they just need to get the belt off Orton at the EC by giving it to one of the faces

Spoiler

such as Christian

to main event Wrestlemania.

 

[Pavaloo]

Who would've thought, after The Undertaker couldn't do it, Kane took out CM Punk. For good.

 

[UberTag]

I threw a quick thread together on Punk's walkout in the OT forum.

Figured I'd get the news out there as multiple outlets are now reporting on it.

 

[Hasney]

I think they need to PANIC with the CM Punk news and bring back Brian Kendrick, but only in his singing telegram role for moments like this.

He's really really sorry
Punk has took his bally
And gone hooommmeeee

 

[Foffy]

Dayum. If true, I don't blame him. Punk has long talked about how he's wanted to change the political machine from the inside. I guess he's feeling as if that is not happening. You can look at the product and see that after some time, after the promo he made, everything went back to normal.

The only difference between then and now is we have the potentiality of the crowd openly shitting on matches, effectively ruining the worked show.

 

[bean breath]

I threw a quick thread together on Punk's walkout in the OT forum.

Figured I'd get the news out there as multiple outlets are now reporting on it.

Still too soon. Need an official statement from WWE, Punk, or both.

Everyone in that thread thinks it's a typical wrestling storyline.

 

[UberTag]

Still too soon. Need an official statement from WWE, Punk, or both.

Everyone in that thread thinks it's a typical wrestling storyline.

We might get a statement from Punk before next week. I doubt we get anything from the WWE. The fact that CM Punk isn't advertised on any upcoming events on WWE.com is certainly true.

Alvarez and Meltzer did a podcast a couple hours ago to discuss the Punk developments. I'm re-upping to F4W Online for the first time in a while to listen to it.
If the folks in the OT want to believe it's a worked storyline, I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Serpentine]

I think they need to PANIC with the CM Punk news and bring back Brian Kendrick, but only in his singing telegram role for moments like this.

He's really really sorry
Punk has took his bally
And gone hooommmeeee

I hope they change their plans around so much, it leaves BRIAN KENDRICK GETS REVENGE ON THE UNDERTAKER FOR THAT TIME HE ATTACKED HIM WHEN HE WAS A SINGING TELEGRAM as the only option. The Undertaker is in the ring paying tribute to the recently-WWE-HOF-inducted-Paul Bearer... when this hits and Kendrick comes out to Slice Bread #2 him. BK/Taker WM.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

So Punk comes back,part time, effectively becoming the thing he hates most? No way. I have a better chance of impregnating Renne Young than that.

 

[Hasney]

I hope they change their plans around so much, it leaves BRIAN KENDRICK GETS REVENGE ON THE UNDERTAKER FOR THAT TIME HE ATTACKED HIM WHEN HE WAS A SINGING TELEGRAM as the only option. The Undertaker is in the ring paying tribute to the recently-WWE-HOF-inducted-Paul Bearer... when this hits and Kendrick comes out to Slice Bread #2 him. BK/Taker WM.

Kendrick then breaks the streak at Wrestlemania thanks to an assist from Paul London just coming down with that creepy smile of his

Was searching for "that" picture when Vince was walking past him, but holy shit, this smile is even more creepy.

 

[British Monsoon]

All I know is that I've seen commentators flip out over how strong he is by catching guys like Jimmy Jacobs and AR Fox, both of whom probably weigh around the same and are definitely in the 160-180 range max. Where as Cesaro is on Raw dead lifting guys like Khali, Tensai, and Brodus Clay. Being a strong dude on the indies isn't impressive. It's really hard to take him seriously as this super strong guy when the people he's throwing around are so small is all.

Lol, what do you want the commentators to do? Qualify every Elgin feat of strength? "OH MY GOD!!! MICHAEL ELGIN IS A FUCKING MACHINE!!! But...that's nothing compared to Antonio Cesaro on RAW this week, of course, because Jimmy Jacobs weighs next to nothing".

He's going up top to do a whisper in the wind, which makes no sense considering his gimmick and character, but it was just to set up Fox do go up top. He could have missed an elbow drop or standing splash, but he does a twisting senton from the top rope for no reason.

I've seen hundreds of Elgin matches - he tries that top rope senton in every one and never, ever hits it. So ridiculously annoying.

And what's really bad is that indie bookers don't put restraints on their talent, which absolutely should be done. Especially when a lot of guys in the promotion do the same moves. There were at least 5 topes on the PWG show. Guys from Willie Mack to Chuck Taylor to Ricochet did them. Every match had a superkick and/or strike battle. Spots in the main event were done in the opening match, which is particularly bad in PWG when Joey Ryan is a founder of the company and is a part of spots in the opener that are going to be used in the main event. It's like there is no communication and indie guys are just worried about getting the most eyes on them as possible instead of building a good show.

It'd be an entirely valid complaint, if it wasn't going entirely against what PWG is and always has been. They've never worried about repeated spots, or guys going all out in every single match - that's just PWG and it's what the fans have come to expect, with every match trying to steal the show.

Honestly, you just sound sick of indie wrestling and I can relate to that, as I've been spending less and less time and money on US indies this past year and can't see that increasing at all. What's next for your random reviews, though? Have you thought about watching a Dragon Gate show? You can see all the big PPVs from last year up at; http://openthedragongate.com/

 

[Hasney]

CM Punk and CBOAT should make for a rather dramatic morning by the looks of things. Fun times.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=759779

 

[BronsonLee]

Lol fucking Punk
Not this shit again

 

[Jamie OD]

I've seen hundreds of Elgin matches - he tries that top rope senton in every one and never, ever hits it. So ridiculously annoying.

Don't forget how often his Spiral Power Bomb is countered into a Reverse Hurricanrana.

Honestly, you just sound sick of indie wrestling and I can relate to that, as I've been spending less and less time and money on US indies this past year and can't see that increasing at all. What's next for your random reviews, though? Have you thought about watching a Dragon Gate show? You can see all the big PPVs from last year up at; http://openthedragongate.com/

I wouldn't recommend Dragon Gate for anyone who is sick of indy spotfest wrestling. They're awesome shows, no doubt about it but you can easily find the same criticisms there. Heck, Dragon Gate is one of the biggest reasons why indy wrestling is so spot heavy now. They inspired everyone!

 

[Serpentine]

Kendrick then breaks the streak at Wrestlemania thanks to an assist from Paul London just coming down with that creepy smile of his

Was searching for "that" picture when Vince was walking past him, but holy shit, this smile is even more creepy.

oh man this is glorious. he just does this on the tron. taker loses.

 

[Aiii]

Aiii, everything I've seen of heard says he was scheduled for Raw, then when he left they rewrote, not the other way around. Also, kind of an informal poll... how many of use believe that the Rumble was Punk's last match?

That is what I meant, my bad.

 

[Hasney]

I think we've stumbled on the first 2 members of the creative team once the post-Vince overhaul happens. We'll get ratings through the roof with such genius!

 

[Recall]

To be fair if there was ever anyone to like to blur the lines between out of date kayfabe and going as far as tricking dirt sheets, then its CM Punk. Whatever happens, happens.

 

[Officerrob]

Stepping back and looking at things, this is pretty startling:

One of the biggest draws for Mania every year is soon to be 49 years old (Undertaker)
They just brought back a guy who will be in the main event seen for the next couple years, he's 45 years old (Batista)
The WWE is rumored to be signing an over the hill star for a potential match against a then 50 year old Undertaker at Wrestlemania 31. This wrestler is Sting, who is about to be 55.
The WWE is about to bring back (and give TV time) to a severely washed up huge star of the 80's and 90's. Hulk Hogan is 60, and he's about to return to TV
HHH is still put in one or two big matches every year, he will be 45 this year

 

[Foffy]

Stepping back and looking at things, this is pretty startling:

One of the biggest draws for Mania every year is soon to be 49 years old (Undertaker)
They just brought back a guy who will be in the main event seen for the next couple years, he's 45 years old (Batista)
The WWE is rumored to be signing an over the hill star for a potential match against a then 50 year old Undertaker at Wrestlemania 31. This wrestler is Sting, who is about to be 55.
The WWE is about to bring back (and give TV time) to a severely washed up huge star of the 80's and 90's. Hulk Hogan is 60, and he's about to return to TV
HHH is still put in one or two big matches every year, he will be 45 this year

Yep. One of the issues with WWE lately is they're relying not only on old rivalries (Cena/Orton), but old wrestlers. The tag team champions have a combined age of 94. They're relying on old ideas and old talent despite the company having tons of new, younger talent. To give a comparative example, as much as NJPW has a lot of people in that age range, they still push new talent. Jushin Liger is not the guy for their lightweights despite being in the company for 20+ years. They push the younger ones.

 

[Hasney]

Stepping back and looking at things, this is pretty startling:

One of the biggest draws for Mania every year is soon to be 49 years old (Undertaker)
They just brought back a guy who will be in the main event seen for the next couple years, he's 45 years old (Batista)
The WWE is rumored to be signing an over the hill star for a potential match against a then 50 year old Undertaker at Wrestlemania 31. This wrestler is Sting, who is about to be 55.
The WWE is about to bring back (and give TV time) to a severely washed up huge star of the 80's and 90's. Hulk Hogan is 60, and he's about to return to TV
HHH is still put in one or two big matches every year, he will be 45 this year

Yup, this is why they need to take a page out of Russo's book at actually have angles and storylines for people further down the card because you'll never build new stars otherwise. Bryan was fortunate he got the AJ story leading into being crushed by Sheamus leading into Team Hell No, they actually had things for him to do. No-one lower on the card than Del Rio currently has any direction and they have 5 hours of main television to do something, but instead it's "Let's make Rey and Sin Cara tag up again! ... Kofi's a solid hand, put him in the ring!"

 

[Marvel]

Stepping back and looking at things, this is pretty startling:

One of the biggest draws for Mania every year is soon to be 49 years old (Undertaker)
They just brought back a guy who will be in the main event seen for the next couple years, he's 45 years old (Batista)
The WWE is rumored to be signing an over the hill star for a potential match against a then 50 year old Undertaker at Wrestlemania 31. This wrestler is Sting, who is about to be 55.
The WWE is about to bring back (and give TV time) to a severely washed up huge star of the 80's and 90's. Hulk Hogan is 60, and he's about to return to TV
HHH is still put in one or two big matches every year, he will be 45 this year

That makes for some depressing reading.

 

[Rapstah]

So CM Punk or Randy Orton wrote that letter that Bryan Alvarez read then.

 

[British Monsoon]

Don't forget how often his Spiral Power Bomb is countered into a Reverse Hurricanrana.

Top rope powerbomb into a 'rana, as well. His matches are becoming increasingly predictable.

I wouldn't recommend Dragon Gate for anyone who is sick of indy spotfest wrestling. They're awesome shows, no doubt about it but you can easily find the same criticisms there. Heck, Dragon Gate is one of the biggest reasons why indy wrestling is so spot heavy now. They inspired everyone!

Yeah, I like trying to get stro to review wrestling I know he'll hate, though

Also, it's funny to think how drastically different indie wrestling would have been from the 2000's onwards without Dragon Gate/Toryumon and NOAH.

 

[Limit]

Here is some audio discussion on punk leaving by wrestling observer.

 

[UberTag]

Stepping back and looking at things, this is pretty startling:

One of the biggest draws for Mania every year is soon to be 49 years old (Undertaker)
They just brought back a guy who will be in the main event seen for the next couple years, he's 45 years old (Batista)
The WWE is rumored to be signing an over the hill star for a potential match against a then 50 year old Undertaker at Wrestlemania 31. This wrestler is Sting, who is about to be 55.
The WWE is about to bring back (and give TV time) to a severely washed up huge star of the 80's and 90's. Hulk Hogan is 60, and he's about to return to TV
HHH is still put in one or two big matches every year, he will be 45 this year

So what you're saying is that Bret Hart should come back and wrestle one more match, right? Hopefully against his arch-enemy - The Box.

Here is some audio discussion on punk leaving by wrestling observer.

I just finished listening to that podcast off the F4W Online site. It's a must-listen but don't expect it to stay up on YouTube long as its paid subscriber content and will likely get pulled.

I found the debate between Alvarez & Meltzer on how hard PPVs will be pushed once the network launches and where to place the doomed-to-fail Orton vs. Batista title match fascinating.
I'm largely in agreement with Meltzer on both of these points, btw.

I STRONGLY think they need to explore doing BOTH D.Brine vs. Triple H & D.Brine in a triple threat with Orton & Batista at Mania - with the latter being the reward as a stip in the first match.
Who cares that the stipulation would telegraph the finish of the first match. People aren't tuning in to WrestleMania for unpredictable finishes.
They're tuning in to watch their heroes conquer their enemies and to watch Taker keep the streak alive.

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

WWE is gonna WWE. Punk leaving really hurts me, man.

 

[Hasney]

So what you're saying is that Bret Hart should come back and wrestle one more match, right? Hopefully against his arch-enemy - The Box.

Or of course his arch-rival, El Dandy.

 

[Vylash]

Who would've thought, after The Undertaker couldn't do it, Kane took out CM Punk. For good.

Sent that bitch back to the waffle house where he belongs

Spoiler

please come back

 

[UberTag]

So CM Punk or Randy Orton wrote that letter that Bryan Alvarez read then.

I haven't seen a transcript of this letter hit the thread yet but seeing how I've resubscribed and all, here it is in its entirety...

Courtesy of the January 28th Bryan & Vinny Show on F4WOnline.com:

I have something to say right there. I have a letter here that I have been asked to read to you the fans. This is from a pretty big star in WWE. I'm obviously not allowed to say his name but he gave me full permission to read this and, in fact, asked me to read this.

This was actually Monday - when everybody was in an absolute uproar - but I think people are in less of an uproar today because Daniel Bryan opened and closed the show yesterday - and I think everyone has kind of figured out that at the end of the day Bryan's going to probably end up with the title for a little while.

But when everybody was in a complete uproar, this was sent to me to read to everybody. It says, and I quote (it's not from Michael Cole):

"Internet is so funny. You all read the sites so you all should know the plans for Mania. None of those plans have Bryan in a title match so the Internet exploding at the end of the show is beyond laughable.

Plus, don't hate on Rey. He did not book himself as Number 30. The way most of you are acting the company should have called an audible and put Brooklyn Brawler as Number 30 just to piss you off even more.

Over 50,000 WrestleMania tickets have been sold and a network that will change your life forever is about to launch.

So just relax and enjoy the product the company gives you.

By the way, didn't you all shit on the WWE for the September through November pay-per-views last year and you said you were done? But you turned around to watch and buy the Rumble.

Pittsburgh... you're an awesome crowd and it was an honor to be in your building last night."

 

[TheDrowningMan]

News is going mainstream:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ust-weeks-before-wrestlemania-30-9092718.html

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

I haven't seen a transcript of this letter hit the thread yet but seeing how I've resubscribed and all, here it is in its entirety...

Courtesy of the January 28th Bryan & Vinny Show on F4WOnline.com:

That's not that big of a deal, that letter. Seems like it was written by one of the Brawlin' Buddies.



And The E has nowhere to go but back to USA and possibly SyFy. They cant go to Foxsports because live sports would take precedent over scripted programming and bump it off its timeslot if they ever got the rights to bigger sporting events. Viacom and the current are not a fit, especially since Spike is such a trashy network still. Only thing that will change is Smackdown eventually going live....

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

Can we start the apocalypse angle now? I've always dreamt of this day. The angle to end all angles. Cesaro gets his push and kills every wrestler in the ring. Thousands and thousands challenge him and cannot defeat him. With every win, he becomes stronger as he consumes his victim's soul after every match. Ending wrestling...forever.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Eh, the "oh no, they have to stop using part timers argument and start pushing Bryan and Ziggler and my other wrestling crush of the moment" isn't actually true. The Rock still has a few matches in him and he just drew a million buys against Cena. Lesnar's around for another year. Batista has signed for two years.

In that time, they can push the guys they want to push (Roman Reigns, Big E. Langston, Mojo Rowley, Alexander Rusev, etc.) to the top and keep Bryan, Ziggler, and such as upper midcard or midcard guys who occasionally get a main event push in the off months and work a good match.

In addition, the Network has made each individual PPV worth less. As a result, what the fans "want" means even less, since if you're hooked in by one PPV, you're now on the hook for six months, regardless if you hate the direction.

If anything, the Network means the WWE will be run more and more for Vince's and Triple H's benefit, not what the "fans" want, even though, to be blunt, if the fans want Bryan to be a top star, they should start showing up to house shows he's headlining, so he can start outdrawing the Cena house shows.

 

[Hasney]

There's not a blanket argument for no part-timers, especially those that are the calibre of Rock and Lesnar they of course have their place, but for Wrestlmania especially, I would argue that they don't need to be in the title match. That belt should be a prop to get people over and they've made a huge mis-step in my eyes if they think they'll get a pop in Wrestlemania buys by bringing back a guy like Batista who looks like a giant, looming shadow of his former self, chasing the title for 2 months

I don't think you can pick the Bryan house shows where he's headlining as he's on the same tour as Cena.

The other tour was known as the Punk tour... Not sure what we'll call it now.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

That makes for some depressing reading.

Imagine if Bob Backlund, Sgt Slaughter and Rocky Johnson were wheeled out as marquee wrestlers during the Attitude era. That's essentially where it is.

 

[slightconfuse]

I wake up and one of my favorite guys quit . .

Time to board the reigns express

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Eh, the "oh no, they have to stop using part timers argument and start pushing Bryan and Ziggler and my other wrestling crush of the moment" isn't actually true. The Rock still has a few matches in him and he just drew a million buys against Cena. Lesnar's around for another year. Batista has signed for two years.

In that time, they can push the guys they want to push (Roman Reigns, Big E. Langston, Mojo Rowley, Alexander Rusev, etc.) to the top and keep Bryan, Ziggler, and such as upper midcard or midcard guys who occasionally get a main event push in the off months and work a good match.

In addition, the Network has made each individual PPV worth less. As a result, what the fans "want" means even less, since if you're hooked in by one PPV, you're now on the hook for six months, regardless if you hate the direction.

If anything, the Network means the WWE will be run more and more for Vince's and Triple H's benefit, not what the "fans" want, even though, to be blunt, if the fans want Bryan to be a top star, they should start showing up to house shows he's headlining, so he can start outdrawing the Cena house shows.

Already been refuted brah. Mojo Rawley? Seriously? Is that you Vince?

 

[JesseEwiak]

Already been refuted brah. Mojo Rawley? Seriously? Is that you Vince?

I was on the Internet in 2002. Nobody thought The Prototype was going to be a big star. Or Leviathan.

But again, it's not my choice. As I said in the other main thread, I'm not saying what I want. I'm saying what they want. They don't want guys like Bryan and Punk who have actual experience with wrestling outside the WWE bubble being the top guys. If you do that, they end up doing things like Punk just did.

It's much better to have guys who have never done an indie show, who have never interacted with wrestlers outside of the WWE, and so on, so you can train them and primp them, so they'll never say the wrong thing and they'll never even understand the concept of saying 'no' to a horrible script.

Now though, things like buyrates and such don't matter as much. They're likely to get a TV deal that's twice as large as their current one and the network will be consistent money that won't deviate based on the PPV of the month.

Put it this way. They're going from having to sell a 'new' game every month to having to keep you just interested enough, like an MMO, to keep you on the hook for $10 a month...forever. Oh, you may hate the current product, but what's easier? Searching Youtube for Armageddon 2001 or just putting down the ten bucks again?

 

[Serpentine]

I like Mojo, but they're gonna have to do some serious work with that in-ring ability, cuz those 4 moves he knows ain't enough, especially when one of them is taken by a Total Diva. Rusev is a better wrestler but i like him considerably less. those are not gonna be the faces of the company at this rate

 

[UberTag]

That's not that big of a deal, that letter. Seems like it was written by one of the Brawlin' Buddies.

I agree with you. Could have been thrown together by any number of talking heads in the WWE. But if I'm comparing it with Randy Orton's Twitter, I doubt very much he'd compose a letter quite like that one. And clearly CM Punk had more pressing matters on his mind on Monday, so it's not likely to be him either.

Shared the letter to counter Rapstah's contention that it was either of those two names. If I'm to take Alvarez's label of "pretty big star" at face value and factoring in everything else, this seems like something Cena would have put together more than anyone else.

 

[Malvingt2]

Wait a damn second! Punk quit?

 

[Aiii]

That letter makes no sense. People were booing Rey yes, but that was booing the company and not Rey. How can anyone, including Rey, think those boos were for him? Of course people know it wasn't his fault he was #30. Jesus.