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Japan Analysts Cold Shoulder Xbox 360
- Thread starter Il Comodino
- Start date
It was fine for the Xbox to not have any Japanese support because it was the most powerful console and it had the FPS market down pat.
Now that PS3 is clearly the strongest, and Revolution potentially taking a share of the FPS market, success in Japan is a lot more important for MS.
Well see how this will turn out for MS, but they aren't in the same boat as last generation because they no longer have the strongest console.
Now that PS3 is clearly the strongest, and Revolution potentially taking a share of the FPS market, success in Japan is a lot more important for MS.
Well see how this will turn out for MS, but they aren't in the same boat as last generation because they no longer have the strongest console.
Well it's clear now that this worldwide launch thing was bad idea...well at least in Japan's case. Japanese launch in March 2006 with DOA4, eM, N3, RR6, PGR3, RRXX, Far East... and so on, along with fixed hw issues wouldve fair MS so much better from todays perspective.
But...
...it's too late now. :lol
But...
...it's too late now. :lol
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
maybe sony paid these analysts too 
gofreak said:True, DX gives a direct mapping for a lot of PC devs to go from PC to Xbox. But the nVidia pipeline is not a million miles apart, and for those devs that use Cg instead of DX's HLSL, the mapping is pretty direct too (see the UE3 engine, where there they moved shaders onto PS3 from PC and they worked exactly the same). For those that would be porting from HLSL to Cg..well, that's a hell of a lot easier than PC to PS2 was
I'm sure nVidia's excellent dev relations are helping here too.
Can someone tell me what the difference between Cg and HLSL is? Because from where I'm standing, they look just about the same to me...
Argyle said:
they are programming languages that are similar in structure and function for writing high-level shaders for graphics cards. Cg was developed by NVIDIA and HLSL was developed by Microsoft.
Wikis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cg_programming_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HLSL
(the HLSL one is kind of crap).
SolidSnakex
Member
SuperPac said:
Which is true if you don't want to have alot of Japanese support.
Argyle said:
IIRC, HLSL is part of the directx libraries and therefore only available on windows platforms. Nvidia worked closely with Microsoft to develop it but it is not cross-platform. Cg, however, is. A ltitle more detail can be found in this interview:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/kirk_interview/
David Kirk said:
Yeah it is wierd.
They have had some success with titles like Tengai Makyo Ziria announced, but there appears to be no effort put in by the developer to develop a next-generation title.
MS must be very disappointed. Japanese announced support for PS3 is already enormous.
I think the word declining is very important here. Originally it seemed that the X360 had acquired strong Japanese developer support and would be a serious Japanese contender. Now it appears that outside of MS's own offerings (Mistwalker published titles etc.) there is very little in the pipeline that would not be expected on the original Xbox.Analyst said:
They have had some success with titles like Tengai Makyo Ziria announced, but there appears to be no effort put in by the developer to develop a next-generation title.
MS must be very disappointed. Japanese announced support for PS3 is already enormous.
Mefisutoferesu
Member
I disagree, I think this is more a function of the PS2 legacy than anything else. When Sony came out with the PS2 they were sporting this fancy processor saying it would allow great things. When a cheapy console like the GC and Xbox with rather generic parts was able to easily exceed it graphically and in ease of programming (which consquently drove up cost). Come the PS3 we see the exact same scenario playing out with the PS2, and I think publishers are worried about getting "screwed" again, so they've been hedging their bets thinking PS2 repeat. However, it more and more looking like Sony learned their lessons and everyone's going back to status quo. Simply put Xbox 360 was plan B.
DarienA said:
Actually it's decent amongst the DIY crowd. http://www.mce-forum.com/
Dell and Compaq are pushing it locally as well.
I was pleasantly surprised when I bought I was building my MCE box and noticed that a lot of the stores in Aki make it a big deal to advertize their video/TV capture products as MCE compatible!
Nerevar said:
Hmm, if you ask me it's a crisis... because personally I happen to love 'goofy games like Katamari' and the Metal Gear, FF franchise. Do you really want an industry dominated by GTA, EA Sports and Halo? I certainly don't... at least Japanese developers strive somewhat for originality, I don't want a focus group dictating what I should/shouldn't be playing, as is common with the US games industry.
Sorry, but anti-Japanophiles are the only thing worse than your regular otaku breed...
Nerevar said:
Well, yeah, I know that. You're basically telling me that if I compile a shader with fxc, it'll only work on DX9, but if I use cgc it'll work on both.
I'm starting to learn Cg/HLSL and have written a couple of shaders and got a shader from an OpenGL-based project to work on a DX9-based project, but I'm certainly no expert - I'd say I know just enough to be dangerous. Syntactically, the languages are pretty much identical, so that's what I meant by "what's the difference" because in my experience, there really isn't one. I was hoping an expert shader writer might be browsing GAF and could explain what the differences really are, aside from marketing...especially since there seems to be the perception that there would be some work involved to port from one to the other.
I'm buying Ninenty Nine Nights, Blue Dragon, and Lost Odysee.
Is Japan? I hope. But i know they won't be buying Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls IV, Too Human, Halo 3, Fable 2, Crackdown, Jade Empire 2 ( if it gets made ), and pretty much every other western game that gets made. So there isn't much of a reason for them to buy an Xbox 360 if all they want is Dragon Quest 9-11, FF 13-14, and sequels to PS2 franchises. Xbox 360 won't be getting those games exclusive, therefore Sony will always win. Multiplatform games like RE 5 wont' sell Xbox 360 when everyone will already own a PS3 to play it on.
Is Japan? I hope. But i know they won't be buying Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls IV, Too Human, Halo 3, Fable 2, Crackdown, Jade Empire 2 ( if it gets made ), and pretty much every other western game that gets made. So there isn't much of a reason for them to buy an Xbox 360 if all they want is Dragon Quest 9-11, FF 13-14, and sequels to PS2 franchises. Xbox 360 won't be getting those games exclusive, therefore Sony will always win. Multiplatform games like RE 5 wont' sell Xbox 360 when everyone will already own a PS3 to play it on.
In their roundabout sort of way, people here are just disapointed in MS's second effort in japan. They havent learned from their mistakes and havent liberally handed out bucketloads of cash that would be required to get many renound devs to jump ship.
What an abysmal launch lineup. Without RR6 it would be trailing the ngage's launch.
What an abysmal launch lineup. Without RR6 it would be trailing the ngage's launch.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
Doesn't the MGS series actually sell better in North America?
Mr_Furious
Member
Marathon said:
And that's just to name a few so stfu plz. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Barry Lightning
Banned
Il Comodino said:
chaostrophy
Member
What I want to know is...how the hell can Japanese gamers not be excited about the 360 after seeing/hearing that Lost Odyssey trailer?
Link
The Autumn Wind
I would disagree here. Barring DOA3, since it was a launch title, what other games of theirs on the Xbox really sold all that well? Not to mention they completely lost any sales they could have had in Japan. Ninja Gaiden sold way below expectations even here in the US.SuperPac said:
MightyHedgehog
Member
While I agree that the launch lineup looks pretty poor for the X360 in Japan, I'm not convinced it's that important. Even if MS had lined up an amazing launch list for Japan, I doubt it would matter much...at least initially. Japan is PS2 land right now, and will be for some time to come, even after PS3 hits. What's more critical is what MS has in store for the system to show off to the Japanese consumer by next fall. I'm not alone, I'm sure, in believing that MS has some big announcements that will bolster its presence and appeal to those gamers there. Will it win the war? No. Will it, combined with a great deal of other titles, help their cause significantly? Yes. Winning there isn't important. Becoming more relevant to publishers there is.
Having said that, I agree that Japan's third party stuff just isn't as important as it used to be, and I believe that it's practically a fact that western support will be the deal breaker...and this time, it will be much more obvious earlier in the next-gen than it was in the current one.
Having said that, I agree that Japan's third party stuff just isn't as important as it used to be, and I believe that it's practically a fact that western support will be the deal breaker...and this time, it will be much more obvious earlier in the next-gen than it was in the current one.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Hasn't PS2 sold about as much in Japan as Xbox and GameCube have worldwide?SuperPac said:
Even if many people were floored by it, it's still one game on a pricy system that's far enough from release that PS3 could be out by then.chaostrophy said:
On the "shrinking" PC market... methinks you'd better check your numbers again:
Retail revenue is shrinking... overall PC gaming revenue is climbing at a steady 7-9% per year.
In 2005, non-retail gaming revenue, not counting casual gaming BS, will exceed box product sales at retail. In the coming years, those gaps will widen even further, but the overall value of the market continues to climb.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1198&Itemid=36
And having published and communicated with SCE/SCEA regarding PC products coming to PS2, by and large, as long as there was something different (a couple levels, new features, etc.) they're more than fine with it. There were no 'business' reasons as far as SCE/SCEA was concerned about PC conversions. Costs of conversion and its impact on viability, as others rightly pointed out, were factors to be considered though.
Besides, "good" publishers/developers release SKUs concurrently anyway to benefit from the marketing spends on as many platforms as possible/are viable. Any 'follow-on' SKUs almost always take a hit due to being perceived as 'dated/not fresh' by the market anyway. In which case, what tended to happen was, PS2 was the lead SKU (as the most difficult/costly to dev for) and ports to Xbox, GC and PC were developed along side it and ideally released at the same time.
Retail revenue is shrinking... overall PC gaming revenue is climbing at a steady 7-9% per year.
In 2005, non-retail gaming revenue, not counting casual gaming BS, will exceed box product sales at retail. In the coming years, those gaps will widen even further, but the overall value of the market continues to climb.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1198&Itemid=36
And having published and communicated with SCE/SCEA regarding PC products coming to PS2, by and large, as long as there was something different (a couple levels, new features, etc.) they're more than fine with it. There were no 'business' reasons as far as SCE/SCEA was concerned about PC conversions. Costs of conversion and its impact on viability, as others rightly pointed out, were factors to be considered though.
Besides, "good" publishers/developers release SKUs concurrently anyway to benefit from the marketing spends on as many platforms as possible/are viable. Any 'follow-on' SKUs almost always take a hit due to being perceived as 'dated/not fresh' by the market anyway. In which case, what tended to happen was, PS2 was the lead SKU (as the most difficult/costly to dev for) and ports to Xbox, GC and PC were developed along side it and ideally released at the same time.
Speevy said:
you forgot, that most western xbox games, are only pc ports like half life 2, doom3, wolfenstein and arx fatalis. i am sure, if the ps2 were more deveoper frienly, you would see such pc ports on this console too. and yes, i expect a change with the ps3, we will see more pc ports than on ps2 an this system.
Jeez, I didn't remember all the talk of the Japanese third parties until just now. Yeah, what happened there? It really is looking more and more like Xbox 1 over there. They really needed 2-3 big Japanese titles if they wanted a turnaround this gen.
And personally, I don't expect western developers to be the big dogs this gen. Nothing's set in stone, and a lotta stuff from Japan can unexpectedly steal the spotlight again as has happened in so many cases prior.
And personally, I don't expect western developers to be the big dogs this gen. Nothing's set in stone, and a lotta stuff from Japan can unexpectedly steal the spotlight again as has happened in so many cases prior.
360 is DirectX and PS3 is openGL, so might as well develop it on the platform that supports both and happens to be your work machine anyways. Even some DS games are being developed with PC versions.Speevy said:
Doesn't mean the pc version gets wrapped in a box and shippedMarathon said:
PS2 ports of PC games existing shouldn't be an indication of Sony's stance with the PS3 however, they can be quite picky. Same with the PSP.
AniHawk said:
Of course not... people just seem blind to the fact that games like MGS2 and 3, Smash Bros Melee, Zelda:WW Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, FFX, FFX2, Gran Turismo 3 and 4, and Kingdom Hearts especially, were extremely successful games... they just think that because Madden, GTA and Halo stole the show this time around that Japanese developers didn't sell anything this gen and they are all of a sudden 'irrelevant' (though it only seems to be Xbots who argue this point... hmm do I sense jealousy?)
And aside from people who are strictly Xbox that everyone else, no matter how casual, owns at least a few Japanese made games in their library.