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Japan charts: Media Create 2 - 8 May
- Thread starter Jonnyram
- Start date
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
I'm glad the DS is doing so good. Hope it keeps up.
Firest0rm said:
Hey, that sure is true but way to completely miss the point.
He said "PSP software does not sell, bad idea to add media capabilities!"
I said, uh, PSP software actually has a better tie ratio to PSP than DS software does... what does that say?
I'm sure the tie ratio is quickly approaching even ground with numbers like this, but the point is clear and completely undeniable.
TotalBastard
Banned
Hey Amirox, people don't play GBA games on their DS systems do they?
So all this talk about PSP's slightly better tie ratiio is somewhat pointless. GBA games still sell and DS owners are buying them. Food for thought.
So all this talk about PSP's slightly better tie ratiio is somewhat pointless. GBA games still sell and DS owners are buying them. Food for thought.
Crankenstein
Banned
TotalBastard said:
Ami has less than consistent memory. GAF Alzheimer's is the diagnosis. (I can find the link for the dx, if you would like). Sometimes lucid. Sometimes...Well ya gotta forgive him.
Crankenstein said:Ami has less than consistent memory. GAF Alzheimer's is the diagnosis. (I can find the link for the dx, if you would like). Sometimes lucid. Sometimes...Well ya gotta forgive him.
Crankenstein, please tell me you're more intelligent than to try to include GBA games in the DS tie ratio.
ironichaos
Member
I dunno, that's grey area.
I own a DS but have never owned a GBA. Yet I own GBA games to play on my DS.
*shrugs shoulders*
I own a DS but have never owned a GBA. Yet I own GBA games to play on my DS.
*shrugs shoulders*
TotalBastard
Banned
I'm not trying to include GBA games in the DS tie ratio.
What I'm actually saying is that nerdy discussions on software tie ratios are somewhat irrelevant merely because people buy more than just DS games to play on their DS systems.
Makes sense doesn't it?
What I'm actually saying is that nerdy discussions on software tie ratios are somewhat irrelevant merely because people buy more than just DS games to play on their DS systems.
Makes sense doesn't it?
No, it's not a grey area. DS games are DS games, GBA games are GBA games. When discussing tie ratios, we do not say "WELL FOR THE FIRST YEAR PS2 HAD PSX GAMES, WHAT A GREAT INCREASE IN TIE RATIO!"
We say "PS2 games had a very low tie ratio at first, but it vastly improved over the years."
Similarly, when discussing NDS we say "The tie ratio is improving, although PSP has the edge here."
That's all. No excuses. No gray areas.
Uh oh, here comes the bloodshed. I'm still waiting for those numbers on PSP returns, by the way. Seems to me you failed to produce any evidence of that, hm?
Anyway, leaving that in the past - anyway, no it is not irrelevant. ThongyDonk made a statement about PSP software, and I made a qualifying statement that shows why he is wrong. It's pretty simple. NDS has a smaller tie ratio than PSP does. So do we say that GBA games are taking away from the NDS software? Well, you certainly could make a case - but that doesn't change the tie ratio discussion at all or how much software is being sold for the respective systems.
We say "PS2 games had a very low tie ratio at first, but it vastly improved over the years."
Similarly, when discussing NDS we say "The tie ratio is improving, although PSP has the edge here."
That's all. No excuses. No gray areas.
Total Bastard said:
Uh oh, here comes the bloodshed. I'm still waiting for those numbers on PSP returns, by the way. Seems to me you failed to produce any evidence of that, hm?
Anyway, leaving that in the past - anyway, no it is not irrelevant. ThongyDonk made a statement about PSP software, and I made a qualifying statement that shows why he is wrong. It's pretty simple. NDS has a smaller tie ratio than PSP does. So do we say that GBA games are taking away from the NDS software? Well, you certainly could make a case - but that doesn't change the tie ratio discussion at all or how much software is being sold for the respective systems.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I think their point was that GBA games will be cannabalising DS game sales and vice versa. It's impossible to know who bought 'what', 'for which system', 'over what other choice' though.... and that's a problem Nintendo brought on themselves by deciding to try this three pillar thing.
Your point is valid, but ties are proportional. Nintendo are doing really well. Like I tried to convey earlier though - even ~33k is good. As the userbase increases it will become naturally easier for PSP titles to tap the top 20 more and more. PSP is here to stay.
Your point is valid, but ties are proportional. Nintendo are doing really well. Like I tried to convey earlier though - even ~33k is good. As the userbase increases it will become naturally easier for PSP titles to tap the top 20 more and more. PSP is here to stay.
radioheadrule83 said:
This is seperate. Of course Nintendo is doing well - very well. Nobody is denying that. I'm simply debunking ThongyDonk's statement, because it's false. That's all. PSP has like a 1.6 or 1.7 tieratio in Japan, and DS has like a 1.2 or 1.3 tie ratio if I remember. I don't know how it changed with the last three weeks of software sales, though.
Crankenstein
Banned
Amir0x said:
I'm not suggesting that at all. But the other extreme of denying that the GBA port on the DS competes with potential DS software sales is silly. The PSP has other media hampering its software ratio. The DS has a huge library of GBA games in direct competition with DS software. That is all.
I'm sure if the number of games on the DS were proportional to the number of games on the PSP factoring it's million unit lead the tie ratio would be much closer if not tipped in favor of DS. As it stands now the PSP has more software with a little more than half the userbase of the DS and being within the first year of it's launch when choices are limited ofcourse the PSP will have a higher tie-in (the console with the most selection usually does). But the DS iianm has had a higher tie-in for a few weeks with more software coming out for it than the PSP has lately? That is quite a feat given the fact that the DS was sometimes doubling and tripling PSP sales in those weeks.
ki/oon said:
Woah. Fantastic week for the DS. Normally DS sales head inexorably downwards until Nintendo release something cool, but for once the sales have held up. Sure Golden Week had an effect but this is very good for the system. Also a bit surprising was just how strongly Naruto and Nintendogs held up, with Kirby also gaining strength. In fact in a week or two Naruto will become the biggest next gen 3rd party portable game all year, overtaking Tales of Eternia.
On the other hand the psp has fallen back down again. Looks like last week may have been a flash in the pan, bought on by being the first half of Golden Week. Sales of a little over 30K are solid, but definitely nowhere near market leading success status. It's even worse when you factor in the 15-20K the GBA also probably pulled in this week. The danger though, is that with such a shit release list so far this year, and not much coming in the near future the psp sales could fall away at some point.
Oh, and Dengeki had the following info regarding time to selling 2 Million units:
PS2 3 months
GBA 4 months
DS 5 months
GC 16 months
N64 17 months
The psp is headed for that mark in around 10 months from launch, which would make it the strongest second system in ages, perhaps ever.
Crankenstein
Banned
Amir0x said:
Dang it, Ami! Can't we agree on anything? I like DOA.
Crankenstein
Banned
Amir0x said:hopefully we can agree on the fact that Pikmin 2 owns, and that Virtua Fighter 4:Evo is a several hundred times superior to DOA.
Pikmin 2 is very good. VF4:Evo is truly excellent, but the arcadey, button mashing of DOA is quite fun. We kinda agree on a couple things.
ThongyDonk
Banned
didn't someone say the other day the DS now IS beating the PSP tie ratio?
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
I hope the Chihuahua version wins.
The DS - PSP tie ratio isn't leaps and bounds apart. Trying to extract grand universal market truths from it is a bit of a red herring.
That said, the observation that PSP games aren't selling is still fairly valid regardless of tie ratio. Developers look at nominal numbers as well as ancillary numbers like tie ratio. The bottom line is, PSP is more expensive to develop for and the games out on it aren't selling quite as many units as a DS game might. That will have implications in terms of economic considerations of some developers.
That said, the observation that PSP games aren't selling is still fairly valid regardless of tie ratio. Developers look at nominal numbers as well as ancillary numbers like tie ratio. The bottom line is, PSP is more expensive to develop for and the games out on it aren't selling quite as many units as a DS game might. That will have implications in terms of economic considerations of some developers.
WTF is a tie ratio?
How many games bought per system sold if I'm right? Well considering the DS has sold more systems than the PSP by a good margin, wtf does tie ratio matter? I mean would you rather have a company sell 4 systems and 16 games or 2 systems and 10 games? But, but ... one tie ratio is 4 and one is 5 ... the 5 MUST mean its better! Also you wanna play with tie ratio, try the tie ratio of first party games sold for each system, then tell me who is leading. Nintendo is kicking their ass in every category, and you can't spin it any other way.
How many games bought per system sold if I'm right? Well considering the DS has sold more systems than the PSP by a good margin, wtf does tie ratio matter? I mean would you rather have a company sell 4 systems and 16 games or 2 systems and 10 games? But, but ... one tie ratio is 4 and one is 5 ... the 5 MUST mean its better! Also you wanna play with tie ratio, try the tie ratio of first party games sold for each system, then tell me who is leading. Nintendo is kicking their ass in every category, and you can't spin it any other way.
ThongyDonk
Banned
i'm sure someone posted DS was now 2.1:1 and PSP 1.74:1
ThongyDonk
Banned
i'm trying to find it rather than being unconstructive with you
I'm betting that he just added the totals from the top 10 (which are the only free totals MC lists on their site each week) to the totals from http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=46193 and then calculated the tie-ratio that way. Like I said, unless he had access to the sales data for ALL the games (which I betting that he doesn't) he's talking out of his ass.ThongyDonk said:
EDIT: Or what Amir0x said.
ThongyDonk
Banned
like i said i think it was
And i did post with ???
And i did post with ???
ThongyDonk said:
No, it's cool. Not adding in this weeks sales (too lazy to calculate them), it should be 1.88 PSP and 1.53 for DS. Not massive cavernous differences, as you can see - NDS only needs a few solid weeks of stellar sales like this to catch up in terms of tie ratio.
This is also especially interesting when discussion how third party developers will approach both systems...
DS 1st party
1. Super Mario 64 DS - Nintendo - 711,424
2. Sawaru Made in Wario - Nintendo - 710,371
3. Pokemon Dash - Pokemon - 323,741
4. Daigassou! Band Brothers - Nintendo - 166,071
5. Catch! Touch! Yoshi! - Nintendo - 163,963
6. Touch! Kirby - Nintendo - 127,690
7. Another Code Futatsu no Kioku - Nintendo - 104,114
8. Chokkan Hitofude - Nintendo - 102,330
9. Electroplankton - Nintendo - 5,545
10. Yakuman DS - Nintendo - 4,791
2,420,040 total
242,004 average
Tie ratio: 1.18
DS 3rd party
1. Kimi no tame nara Shineru - Sega - 97,629
2. Puyo Puyo Fever - Sega - 82,898
3. Kenshuui Tendou Dokuta - Spike - 76,724
4. Pac Pix - Namco - 70,514
5. Bokujou Monogatari Corobockle Station - Marvellous - 56,987
6. Tennis no Oujisama 2005 Crystal Drive - Konami - 49,385
7. Egg Monster Hero - Square Enix - 49,131
8. Mister Driller Drill Spirits - Namco - 47,976
9. Zoo Keeper - Success - 45,412
10. Meteos - Bandai - 39,232
11. Mahjong Taikai - Koei - 34,545
12. Spiderman 2 - Taito - 26,633
13. The Urbs: Sims in the City - EA - 24,685
14. Kamen Genei Satsujin Jiken - Genki - 10,254
15. Cool 104 Joker & Setline - Aruze - 9,613
16. Tiger Woods PGA Tour - EA - 3,381
17. Space Invaders DS - Taito - 3,249
728,248 total
42,838 average
Tie ratio: 0.35
PSP 1st party
1. Minna no Golf Portable - SCE - 337,972
2. Piposaru Academia - SCE - 108,599
3. Dokodemo Issho - SCE - 86,255
4. Popolocrois Monogatari - SCE - 70,364
5. Bleach - SCE - 52,140
6. Sarugetchu P! - SCE - 42,674
7. Wipeout Pure - SCE - 5,772
703,776 total
100,539 average
Tie ratio: 0.60
PSP 3rd party
1. Ridge Racers - Namco - 274,682
2. Shin Sangoku Musou - Koei - 268,514
3. Tales of Eternia - Namco - 157,043
4. Metal Gear Acid - Konami - 99,871
5. Kotoba no Puzzle Mojipittan - Namco - 98,109
6. Gagharv Trilogy: Shiroki Majou - Bandai - 89,202
7. Mahjong Fight Club - Konami - 77,137
8. Namco Museum - Namco - 61,895
9. Armored Core Formula Front - From Software - 58,288
10. Puyo Puyo Fever - Sega - 49,345
11. Lumines - Bandai - 37,271
12. Vampire Chronicles - Capcom - 37,184
13. Rengoku: The Tower of Purgatory - Hudson - 36,424
14. Need for Speed Underground Rivals - EA - 25,689
15. Soukyuu no Fafner - Bandai - 25,622
16. Mahjong Taikai - Koei - 15,264
17. Mobile Train Simulator + Densha de Go! - Ongakukan - 12,861
18. Puzzle Bobble Pocket - Taito - 11,943
19. Sangokushi V - Koei - 9,910
20. AI Shogi - Marvellous - 9,684
21. Shinten Makai: GOCIV Another Side - Idea Factory - 9,534
22. AI Mahjong - Marvellous - 8,649
23. AI Igo - Marvellous - 8,479
24. Kollon - Cyberfront - 8,184
25. Harukanaru Toki no Naka de: Iroetebako - Koei - 1,559
1,492,343 total
59,694 average
Tie ratio: 1.28
Amir0x said:
:lol :lol :lol
ThongyDonk said:
Yeah, that was the tie ratio for that week. It was posted earlier in the thread that the DS total software sales were 140K and the PSP 58K(14 games). I'm guessing it was based of a top 100 or something, so should be only a little low overall. The thing is, it's been like that for a while. You can see from how the DS has been dominating the charts in terms of software sales. Whatever the total psp vs DS tie ratio is, right now in terms of a weekly or even monthly tie ratio the DS is doing better, and in terms of absolute software sales on a weekly basis doing much much better.
Personally, I blame the low initial DS tie ratio on backwards compatibility and a weak line up for the 2 months post launch(although launch was great). On the other hand, the psp benefited from an absolutely fantastic launch week software line up, and has been suffering ever since from weak line up. You know its bad when the strongest game on a ps2/Dreamcast(depending on your bias) level system is the psone port of Tales of Eternia.
TotalBastard
Banned
heidern said:
Everyone here understands this except for Amirox.
Keep up the good fight Amirox, this futile argument is a great use of your time :lol
TotalBastard said:
no, see, you're failing to read. ThongyDonk said it was a bad idea to include media capabilities in the PSP and it shows because of bad software sales. I simply corrected him - that is not the case, since PSP has a better tie ratio than even NDS.
In case you have trouble reading into this comment, it essentially means if it was a bad idea to include media capabilities in PSP than what's the excuse for NDS? You must then conclude it was a bad idea to include backward compatibility in the NDS.
You'll notice this choice quote from my previous post...
Amir0x said:
Nintendogs and Naruto hardly went down from the previous week at all, thats really impressive with or without Golden Week. Im curious to see how long at least one Nintendogs game will stay in the top ten. Wario and Mario stayed there for a rediculously long time. Word of mouth seems to help the DS a lot.
Edit: btw, I dont think Nintendo cares if the DS tie ratio is low because they are buying GBA games instead. They win either way..
Edit: btw, I dont think Nintendo cares if the DS tie ratio is low because they are buying GBA games instead. They win either way..
I think your numbers are outdated and even if you were correct, it was a point difference in the fractions.
As for the PSP's media capabilities, it remains to be seen how well it will pan out, but overpriced UMDs and poor selection certainly isn't helping it much.
As one poster said, a "CS degree and $100 in addons is required to get full use out of the PSP's media capabilities" and frankly, the casual gamers probably won't disagree with that statement, even if they are as rabid a PSP supporter as you are, minus the endless hours you spend reading and posting in this forum.
Amir0x said:
I think the jury is still out on this one. Sure the DS tie-ratio is low, but it is recovering every single week. Looking at the trend in software sales the backwards compatibility looks like it's effect may in the end be negligible. The thing with the psp is that the tie ratio had a better start, but it is not improving. In fact some weeks it seems it may be getting worse. It could be that in the long term the media capabilities will really hurt game sales. But really, I think the level of game sales correlates directly to the quality of the release schedule rather than anything to do with hardware features(except that backwards compatibility is always going to hurt a launch somewhat because people better have the luxury of waiting for better games).
Deku said:
The numbers are outdated, by a week or two. And yes, the difference is only mere franctions. This, once more, changes absolutely nothing about the point - if PSP's media capabilities were holding it back than you should conclude that GBA backward compatibility is holding the NDS back even more. Alternatively, you can say they're both going to have a negligible affect on software sales in the long run (this is what I believe). That's not to say things won't be very different in a few weeks or even at the moment.
You can even read it another way - both features (media capabilities and GBA BC) has no real meaningful affect on software sales. Limited releases or undesirable titles do.
Deku said:
I'm a DS supporter, and I rarely play my PSP at all anymore (well, I picked up Hot Shots so that's not entirely accurate as of Tuesday). You'd know that if you actually did follow my endless posts. I'm just not a blind, dumb and deaf supporter of any given company and that lends me only to tell the truth about the issues at hand.
heidern said:
PSP had a better start but is slowing down, DS had a worse start but is speeding up. What does this tell you? Again, you're selectively choosing what you like to believe. YES, DS is recovering every week - no one is suggesting otherwise. Listen, it's pretty simple.
Thongy suggested media capabilities is hurting PSP, and the implication was that you can see from DS that not having these features helps it.
I submitted that this is not true, since PSP has an even better tie ratio than NDS. Therefore, either BC is hurting NDS in other, somewhat similar ways or they're both going to have a negligible effect on software sales.
MY conclusion was the ladder, and it's the only valid conclusion frankly.